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  1. HarveyM

    HarveyM

    Messages:
    319
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    No
    I think camera companies are running a significant risk to turnover by continually ramping up the price of their cameras and lenses, the new body price inflation rate of such as the Canon 5D series and Nikon D800 series has been breathtaking. In the last few years, the most I've ever spent on a camera body is £999. The next highest figure is £499 for my EM1. Higher and higher prices will mean more and more potential buyers falling by the wayside and sticking with whatever they already have. The actual change in image quality isn't really significant enough to be expending four figure sums. Some of the farkles might be nice to have, but generally I can't image I would ever need to blaze away at 20 fps or need sensor shift 80mp files of still subjects all that often, if ever. The biggest limitation for my photography isn't the equipment at all, it's the operator, that'll be me then.

    Phone manufacturers are also discovering that they don't sell too many £1000 phones either. In the medium term, camera companies that try to emulate and charge like niche market suppliers, such as Rolex, will end up as potentially profitable but very small companies indeed.
     
  2. ianp5a

    ianp5a

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    4,279
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    Ian
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    Yes
    An important factor, when prices are climbing, is if innovation is happening at the same time. M43, like the Fujis, have been striving to come up with better and better cameras each time. Leaving Canon and Nikon looking complacent. So even if the price hike is bigger than the value of the innovation, there has still been a strong desire to get the next Olympus. And the older OMD, without decent autofocus, is looking quite dated. And less desirable.
    Smartphones have already passed that point and have run out of useful things to add. It's just gimmicks now. And now a £100 phone is almost as good as a £700 flagship phone, only the fashion conscious or the corporate people are going to spend big. Smartphone companies are desperate to come up with crazy ideas, as more people leave the flagship market.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  3. Pound Coin

    Pound Coin

    Messages:
    13
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    Yes
    My secondhand OM1 and 50mm bought in 1976 would be the equivalent of about £950 now, with inflation.
     
  4. ianp5a

    ianp5a

    Messages:
    4,279
    Name:
    Ian
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    Yes
    I was lured by the "must haves" in the OM2 in 1978.
     
  5. Greytop

    Greytop

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    847
    Name:
    Huw
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    No
  6. Sootchucker

    Sootchucker

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    Andrew
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    A little test of mine with the 300 F4 - not as good as yours Huw.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  7. snerkler

    snerkler

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    Great detail. How far away would you say that you were and how much have these been cropped?
     
  8. Sootchucker

    Sootchucker

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    1,441
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    Andrew
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    Snerkler, according to the Exif info, the distance was 5.73m (so just under 20 feet) for image 1.

    Image 1 is cropped from the native 20mp (5184 x 3888), to just over 9.33mp (3527 x 2645)

    Image 2 was shot at 3.66m (just over 12 feet), and cropped from the native 20mp (5184 x 3888), to just over 12mp (4019 x 3014)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  9. Sootchucker

    Sootchucker

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    Andrew
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    And another - this time a very heavy crop (down to just 5mp !) - it's amazing what this sensor and lens can resolve.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. snerkler

    snerkler

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    Thanks, useful stuff. I didn't realise you get get subject distance from the EXIF, that's handy to know (y)
     
  11. Chipper

    Chipper

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    1,377
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    No
    I used my 12-100 at the Manchester velodrome yesterday and was disappointed with its ability to lock on and catch sharp images for moving subjects so I am wondering if this 300 Oly lens is ever used to catch birds in flight. I know I can't expect it to match the AF of a 1dx2 but thought it might be ok catching the cyclists in a relatively predictable environment.
     
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  12. Simplythebeast

    Simplythebeast

    Messages:
    1,008
    Name:
    Graham
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    Yes
    Surely its the camera body that isnt focussing fast enough. The 12-100 should have no problem focussing on moving subjects at the velodrome but much depends on light levels and the body in use.
     
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  13. damianmkv

    damianmkv Uh oh, a fruit basket!

    Messages:
    5,348
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    Yes
    What shutter speeds were you using ? My e-m1 could focus on drag cars going from 0-100mph in their own length with the 40-150 pro so there shouldn't be an issue with bikes
     
  14. Greytop

    Greytop

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    847
    Name:
    Huw
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    Your shots are excellent Andrew, amazing detail. Chaffinch #2 takes the biscuit for me. All of them are impressive though.
     
  15. snerkler

    snerkler

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    What Body? TBH panning isn't that demanding on the AF system so it's either technique (no offence but new systems take some getting used to) or light, mirrorless still struggle in low light.

    Shutter speed doesn't affect AF ;) :p But yes I would have thought it would have been able to cope well enough, assuming there was enough light.
     
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  16. damianmkv

    damianmkv Uh oh, a fruit basket!

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    Yes
    Apparently not...hence why Olympus only shot fast moving subjects when they launched the 1.2

    I’ve had a lot of shots in the past where the focus box was green and the result was oof, regardless of SS
     
  17. snerkler

    snerkler

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    Depends, fast side to side shouldn’t be too much of an issue (assuming good technique), fast coming towards you or going away from you on the other hand.......
     
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  18. HarveyM

    HarveyM

    Messages:
    319
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    No
    I have a large German Shepherd with a dark, mostly black face. I often try to photograph her as she is running towards me but the success rate is really low with both my EM1 and EM10. It doesn't make any difference whether I'm using S-AF or C-AF, single shot or low burst rate, most of the shots miss critical focus. I've tried different lenses, including the 12-40mm, 14-42mm, Lumix 12-32mm and Lumix 25mm F1.7. The best results came from my now departed Lumix G7 using the 25mm lens. I also found the 12-32mm lens was slightly better on my OMDs than the 12-40mm or 14-42mm. I'm still expermenting with the focusing modes and different camera lens combinations. Whilst I understand that dark fur combined with dark eyes travelling at 30 mph is always going to be a challenge, I don't think any M43 camera is quite good enough for closing shots as of yet, despite what the manufacturers would like to suggest.
     
  19. damianmkv

    damianmkv Uh oh, a fruit basket!

    Messages:
    5,348
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    Yes
    Agree. Last summer I tried taking shots of my 10 year old at the scooter park. He was going away from me at little more than fast walking pace and I got nothing in focus. It's what made me change systems
     
  20. Simplythebeast

    Simplythebeast

    Messages:
    1,008
    Name:
    Graham
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    Yes
    Have you tried the EM1ii?
     
  21. mikew

    mikew

    Messages:
    2,235
    Name:
    mike
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    Yes
    It is where Olympus let their customers down, having to buy the top model to get usable CAF, i have the EM10MK11 and Panasonic G80 the Panasonic may not be top notch but it beats the EM hands down,only with fast motor Panasonic lenses though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 7:51 AM
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  22. Chipper

    Chipper

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    1,377
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    It's the EM1mk2. I run two systems. The f4 won't have helped nor the light which was not as bright as I had anticipated. I had no trouble catching cyclists in the test event in 2012 with a 5D2 - entire series in focus coming off the bend... I haven't taken them off the card yet so perhaps I will be cheered up when I see that. I didn't take a Canon set up because I was sure a job's worth would try and take them off me. About 10 seats away from me, there was someone sitting with a big Nikon. I shoot BBL with a Canon set up. Maybe I should see if Oly can cope with that for a quarter! So, any fast moving bird shots out there? I notice in the Olympus brochure they don't use a sports photo from Mike Inkley, their ambassador in his blurb. It's not a drama though. To be fair, this was not why I have the system. Maybe it all depends on having their (only) 2 longer PRO lenses.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 8:07 AM
  23. snerkler

    snerkler

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    To get the best of the EM1-II there is some specific AF setup to get the best of it apparently. Unfortunately I don't own one so can't help you further on that.
     
  24. HarveyM

    HarveyM

    Messages:
    319
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    No
    I haven't tried the EM1 Mkll, but various reviews on the web seem to suggest that there isn't much real world difference compared to the Mkl. The small matter of a cost to change of circa £1300-1500 also has to be taken into account, for me anyway. Olympus seems to be rather coy about exactly which circumstances PDAF is actually used when fitted with M43 lenses. It's certainly used for 4/3 lenses, but apparently actually slow with these regardless, or glacial when used on non PDAF bodies.
     
  25. Mark Johnson

    Mark Johnson

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    1,800
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    Mark
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    Yes
  26. ianp5a

    ianp5a

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    4,279
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    Ian
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    Yes
    Decent CAF is still new to Olympus. And it 'should' end up on all of their models. It's not a luxury. They have to compete. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.
     
  27. Greytop

    Greytop

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    Name:
    Huw
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    No
    I would say the contrary, there is quite a marked difference IMHO.
     
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  28. snerkler

    snerkler

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    Every review I've read/watched would agree with you (y)
     
  29. Chipper

    Chipper

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    Well, I have a book that was recommended on here. Sadly there are very few images and diagrams so not the quickest reference - so I will have a look. I am not that keen on the PRO Capture as it takes too many images - and I am aware that you can reduce the number of images both before and after. I will check the book.
     
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  30. snerkler

    snerkler

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    One of the main things I've read is that tracking AF sucks (especially with acquisition), and you're best just using C-AF. TBH I do this with all cameras anyway.
     
  31. Greytop

    Greytop

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    847
    Name:
    Huw
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    Agreed, I've never bothered with +TR only C-AF
     
  32. hillwalkinggirl

    hillwalkinggirl

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    Barbara
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    A beautiful shot.
     
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  33. Greytop

    Greytop

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    Huw
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    No
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 10:02 PM
  34. Sootchucker

    Sootchucker

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    Andrew
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    Just a little Christmas Robin and a Dunnock foraging in the leaves

    [​IMG]

    OMD EM1 MKII - M.Zuiko 300mm F4 IS Pro - 1/200 @ F4.5, ISO 3200

    [​IMG]

    OMD EM1 MKII - M.Zuiko 300mm F4 IS Pro - 1/200 @ F4, ISO 1600
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 8:19 AM
  35. Simplythebeast

    Simplythebeast

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    1,008
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    Graham
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    Yes
    Correct. Tracking AF is almost useless on the EM1ii. One day perhaps through some firmware wizardry Olympus might sort that. Until then my D500 will always be the preferred tool for tracking.
     
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  36. Cagey75

    Cagey75

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    5,947
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    Keith
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    Due to much arsing about on my part, and some potential gear buyers, my planned G80 purchase fell through. I had already bought a 25mm 1.7 in preparation for it, so I went ahead and bought an old EM5 just to have something to use the lens with for the time being. Anyone still using the older Em5 here? what should I expect in terms of ISO performance? Being an older model I'm guessing it's not going to blow me away, but if it's fine to 1600 that'll do me.
     
  37. snerkler

    snerkler

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    TBH there's not a lot of difference between the 16mp models. According to DXO the EM5 is better than the EM1 and I use my EM1 at ISO 3200 fairly regularly.

    Far from award winning shots (they're just holiday snaps) and whilst there's noise present it's acceptable imo. YMMV. All hand held.

    To give some idea of how dark it was this was ISO 3200 f2.8 1/15 so low light and high ISO yet still useable imo.
    [​IMG]
    P5281941
    by TDG-77, on Flickr

    ISO 3200 f2.8 1/80
    [​IMG]
    P5271884
    by TDG-77, on Flickr

    Another lowlight and high iso, ISO 3200, f2.8 1/20.
    [​IMG]
    P5271827-2
    by TDG-77, on Flickr

    Horrible artificial light, ISO 3200 f2.8 1/60
    [​IMG]
    P3051433-Edit
    by TDG-77, on Flickr




    It's essential to get exposure right though as they don't tolerate exposure bumps well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 4:43 PM
  38. Cagey75

    Cagey75

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    Keith
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    Nice, thanks. It'll probably be a temporary fix, but gives me a good chance to give M43 a good testing. I guess the main differences then between the mk1 and II are better IS? higher quality LCD & VF and wireless con? Oh, and the articulated LCD which is debatable, not sure which I'd prefer on that front.
     
  39. snerkler

    snerkler

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    Yep they’re the main differences. You get the hi res mode on the MKII and I’m not sure whether the MKI got the silent and anti shock shooting mode update that the MKII has.

    As for the screens I prefer tilt but it’s preference.
     
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  40. Cagey75

    Cagey75

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    Keith
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    I've never used an articulating screen, but I know that tilting screens are very handy, i think I'd be a bit lost without that option now. It frustrated me at times when using the xpro1, as I had gotten so used to the X-T1 tilt LCD. Very useful for macro of any kind, especially is you hate tripods and have a knackered back like me :D
     
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