Paperless society ?

Gremlin

Gremlin

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Watching the news this morning it seems the latest concern is paper receipts in shops
Now I do understand what they are saying and yes I throw most of the general ones away,
In the local shops I rarely bother with a receipt, but in towns etc, I do.
Been asked if I would like them to, the few times I said yes it resulted in a flood of mails from the shop
offering deals etc. so no thank you.
My other concern is that suppose you go to a shop, pay cash, and the cashier doesn't take the security tag off,
or you get spot checked (do they still do that) how do you prove you have paid if you have nothing to show ?
 
Yes I’ve wondered that too
The last time I gave a shop my email address I got emails every day from them I had to unsubscribe
I don’t think at the moment that there is an alternative to a paper receipt certainly I don’t now give out my email address
 
Gremlin said:
Watching the news this morning it seems the latest concern is paper receipts in shops
Now I do understand what they are saying and yes I throw most of the general ones away,
In the local shops I rarely bother with a receipt, but in towns etc, I do.
Been asked if I would like them to, the few times I said yes it resulted in a flood of mails from the shop
offering deals etc. so no thank you.
My other concern is that suppose you go to a shop, pay cash, and the cashier doesn't take the security tag off,
or you get spot checked (do they still do that) how do you prove you have paid if you have nothing to show ?
Click to expand...
And what if you own your own Ltd company and need to provide receipts to hmrc?
 
It's not just receipts. Lots or organizations are pushing paperless, but ID/address verification procedures still rely on bank statements, utility and council tax bills (a copy in not acceptable!) to prove who you are.
 
Gremlin said:
or you get spot checked (do they still do that)
Click to expand...
My large Tesco has at least one security guard by the door, as they have this self service ( scan and go) check out thing.
I always make sure I get a receipt in these type places. The local stores "know me" and I never bother with a receipt, except when a certain check out girl on duty,
I'm not saying she makes mistakes deliberately ... but they do occur regularly...
 
Tori_T said:
ID/address verification procedures still rely on bank statements, utility and council tax bills (a copy in not acceptable!)
Click to expand...
That has always seemed the least secure form of ID to me. All my bills are paperless, if someone asks for an original I just print off the online PDF (copy not acceptable :LOL: ) and they always accept it. It would be the simplest thing in the world to alter the name and address before I print it.
 
LCPete said:
Yes I’ve wondered that too
The last time I gave a shop my email address I got emails every day from them I had to unsubscribe
I don’t think at the moment that there is an alternative to a paper receipt certainly I don’t now give out my email address
Click to expand...

Recently I bought a small brush in Halfords and was asked for my email address "for their receipt". It was only the thought that the assistant was only doing what her employer required that made me politely decline. The thought in my mind was having the MD require surgery to have the brush removed from his rectum.
 
arclight said:
Recently I bought a small brush in Halfords and was asked for my email address "for their receipt".
Click to expand...
I got caught by Halfords sometime back.
I bought a couple of bulbs ( for the van) and they asked me for an email address to send the guarantee to.
I was in a rush and didn't really think much of it until the the emails started.
At which point Mr Graham Stapleton was at the receiving end of my displeasure.
 
LCPete said:
Yes I’ve wondered that too
The last time I gave a shop my email address I got emails every day from them I had to unsubscribe
I don’t think at the moment that there is an alternative to a paper receipt certainly I don’t now give out my email address
Click to expand...
I have only ever been asked for an email address at two stores, Argos and Halfords. Other than a copy of the receipt, I have never had any other emails from either.
 
I just tell them to tick the box on their screen that disables marketing contacts. It's worked just fine so far.
 
The other side of this is that now many utility bills, bank statements and wages slips are now "paperless" it gets difficult when "official" organisations want proof of address, proof of earnings etc. The law(s) haven't really caught up with modern society.
 
A new chippy has opened near us yesterday so I went in to try it for tea....
Guy infront of me paid by card, and it was one of those small readers attached wirelessly to the owners phone.

Then he says "Is it OK if I text you the receipt". Thought that was quite nifty.
 
Tori_T said:
It's not just receipts. Lots or organizations are pushing paperless, but ID/address verification procedures still rely on bank statements, utility and council tax bills (a copy in not acceptable!) to prove who you are.
Click to expand...
Having had to recently to visit solicitors for conveyancing reasons, I was told I need a photo ID (driver's license, passport) AND a paper statement with my address on it (bank statement, council tax, utility bill etc). Given that the latter documents are always online, it seems a bit backwards to have to go to the bank, ask for a recent statement and for them to stamp it so I can go back to the solicitors.
sirch said:
That has always seemed the least secure form of ID to me. All my bills are paperless, if someone asks for an original I just print off the online PDF (copy not acceptable :LOL: ) and they always accept it. It would be the simplest thing in the world to alter the name and address before I print it.
Click to expand...
I've had some places reject copies or online printouts. They want the original documents.

As for receipts, Screwfix do online receipts, which I'm happy with. If I visit the supermarket, I'll get a receipt. I'll definitely get one if I use a self-checkout. I normally scan the bag first and then scan my items. When it asks if I have any bags to add, I press "No" because I've already scanned a plastic carrier bag. On one occasion, the self-checkout supervisor told me off for not paying for a bag until I pointed out on the receipt that I'd scanned it as the first item and had paid for it. After that, I always obtain a receipt.
 
I gave Saltrock my email address for the receipt. every other day I get emails, so just marked one as junk and they all go into my junk folder.
 
Paperless is the way forward. (sorry Mike)

Out of all the paper statements you keep receiving, what percentage are actually used for proof of address or ID purposes?
I have now cut down my paper statements to only quarterly from 1 bank and the council tax. Everything else is paperless. This way, I still have proof of address statement, but doesn't generate too much waste. All other statements can be printed off if really needed.

I filled out an UK visa application a few months ago. I'm surprised they have an excellent new system, where you get to upload all statements and bills to prove you had been living at an address. Banks where paper statement meant no PDF actually caused more trouble for me. In the end, I spent ~20min uploading everything else and ~40min scanning the few sets of paper statements.


As for shops not giving paper receipts, as long as I can instantly get the receipt digitally, I'm okay. Screwfix is excellent in this regard.
The biggest benefit with digital receipts is that they are searchable. I can easily look back on all my Screwfix purchases just by typing screwfix in Gmail. Paper receipts get lost or stuffed in pockets, organising them is a pointlessly exercise in today's digital world.

It would be good if you are able to tie personal details (of your choosing) to your cards. Like how you purchase online via paypal, physically, your plastic card would be akin to paypal account, a single swipe will communicate, all information you grant, across to allow digital billing.
Just swipe and go, digital receipt delivered into your pocket, zero waste, easily searchable.


All marketing communications should be opt-in. But either way, I've never had trouble unsubscribing or reporting as Spam. So having people know my Email is no big deal.
 
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When asked for an email address for the receipt I just politely say no and ask for one from the till, it only needs a button push, the email method is a con.
 
Paperless ftw.

Instant payment notifications to my phone via my bank (proof of purchase mr security guard) and online statements/bills (not had any issue with acceptance via a lengthy tenancy check recently).
 
What about those of us that don't use their phones for banking/emails etc. ?
Also not everyone uses the internet, we have already lost all our banks here,
used to be 4, now only one cash machine and loads of new housing being built
 
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Gremlin said:
What about those of us that don't use their phones for banking/emails etc. ?
Also not everyone uses the internet, we have already lost all our banks here,
used to be 4, now only one cash machine and loads of new housing being built
Click to expand...

Time to adapt and move with the times.
 
neil_g said:
Paperless ftw.

Instant payment notifications to my phone via my bank (proof of purchase mr security guard) and online statements/bills (not had any issue with acceptance via a lengthy tenancy check recently).
Click to expand...
Won’t work for me, I pay cash.
 
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Gremlin said:
My other concern is that suppose you go to a shop, pay cash, and the cashier doesn't take the security tag off,
or you get spot checked (do they still do that) how do you prove you have paid if you have nothing to show ?
Click to expand...

Well, there's no reverse onus of proof, so you don't have to. It's up to the state to prove that you stole the item, you don't have to prove that you didn't, but I take your point. I generally get a till slip for a cash sale, but that's more in case I have to return the item(s) for some reason.

I have a 'dustbin' mail address that I give retailers who pester me for one. That way, I get the receipt - or whatever - but the spam doesn't clutter up my main inboxes. I refuse to give them a phone number.
 
Gremlin said:
My other concern is that suppose you go to a shop, pay cash, and the cashier doesn't take the security tag off,
or you get spot checked (do they still do that) how do you prove you have paid if you have nothing to show ?
Click to expand...

Coming out of Tesco the other day with a trolley load, the alarm went off as I passed through the detectors - there was a woman pushing out a trolley same time as me and I just assumed it was her, she looked more freaked out than me so I just strolled on. Got home and there it was, tag still on the Fusion blades I'd bought - I had done the beep-gun jobby, and bagged everything in the trolley as I done the round. The check out girl didn't bother to check anything, just connected the gun and let it tot up, the Fat security guard right by the entrance didn't budge when the alarm was triggered, think he was actually eating a sandwich! When I found the tag I was thinking, dang, I could have had that 40" tv underneath all the bags and they'd not have batted an eye lid! ... of course i would never actually do that, because I'd be caught! But .. if I didn't have the receipt and that security dud wasn't stuffing his face and actually paid attention, it could have been a right awkward situation
 
This was on the radio the other week, one of the main points of complaint being made was that for bills you are generally now offered paperless as standard and charged an additional fee if you want to be sent paper copies, people phoning in were up in arms about it being too expensive and now having to download and print off all their bills at home.

Who really needs a paper record of every phone bill FFS?!
 
bass_junkie83 said:
Who really needs a paper record of every phone bill FFS?!
Click to expand...
We scan all the paper that comes in and shred all except the very few cases where the originals might be required. It leaves a lot more room in the house!
 
The computer at our local paper shop regularly insists we haven't paid so I always have the last paper receipt in my pocket when I go to pay the bill.

Other than that I do worry about the push to paperless and the pressure to do everything on line when this must be making life difficult for large numbers of people who don't have internet access or the computer skills needed, and it's not just older people either.

Mrs WW is Thai and everything official is a PITA as we need documents less than three months old with her name and address on them. PITA. There's just no connectivity. If officialdom knows Mrs WW and where she lives whey are we constantly asked again and again to prove the same things.
 
woof woof said:
The computer at our local paper shop regularly insists we haven't paid so I always have the last paper receipt in my pocket when I go to pay the bill.

Other than that I do worry about the push to paperless and the pressure to do everything on line when this must be making life difficult for large numbers of people who don't have internet access or the computer skills needed, and it's not just older people either.

Mrs WW is Thai and everything official is a PITA as we need documents less than three months old with her name and address on them. PITA. There's just no connectivity. If officialdom knows Mrs WW and where she lives whey are we constantly asked again and again to prove the same things.
Click to expand...

Shades of the "hostile environment" that has blighted the lives of those of the Windrush generation :(
 
Box Brownie said:
Shades of the "hostile environment" that has blighted the lives of those of the Windrush generation :(
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Er, no. It's not a hostile Windrush environment as such but more a case of trying to reduce fraud and a lack of connectivity and link up with govt and other bodies wishing to identify people and confirm their addresses.

It's a paperless issue in that it can be a PITA getting paper copies that are acceptable. For example we've today got a document with proof of ID and address from Mrs WW doctor (stamped and signed) and our bank wont accept it because although they state that a letter from the Dr is acceptable as proof of address they want "something more personal." WTF? I imagine they want something hand written by the doctor with a quill pen on his own personalised stationary made by Harrods of London, or maybe an invite to his birthday party? If we're going to go paperless lets do it properly and have govt and banks and other institutions who need to ID us connected or at least talking to each other and lets stop this half arsed system with periodic insistence on this or that paper document signed by a human and less than 3 months old. It may happen one day but sooner or later there'll be a massive breach or 3.
 
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neil_g said:
Rarely carry cash now. Even the village fete has contactless lol
Click to expand...
When I worked in the garage BT had an off day and there was no internet for a day or so, people were up in arms that we couldn't do card or pay using their phones, and, we wouldn't allow them to take their cars away without payment, How will I get to the bank" they asked, em walk? 10 minutes stroll but that seemed to be too much for some. An acquaintance was knackered in the pub the other night, his phone battery failed and he no cash, card or other method of payment, we were going to let him go home sober and let him get to the door before we subbed him some readies.:LOL:
 
I've just had a great example of it not working.
Popped into Halfords to get something for the car, got home and apart was missing,
an important part at that, back to Halfords and got a refund, 1st question was did I have the receipt!!
Bearing in mind I was asked if I wanted it emailed to me.
All was sorted and refund made, seems it's quite common for this to happen, someone doesn't
want the the whole thing because a part has broken so they just take the bit they want :banghead:
It could have been a problem as I don't check emails on my phone, never have, so what would have happened
next ?
 
Gremlin said:
I've just had a great example of it not working.
Popped into Halfords to get something for the car, got home and apart was missing,
an important part at that, back to Halfords and got a refund, 1st question was did I have the receipt!!
Bearing in mind I was asked if I wanted it emailed to me.
All was sorted and refund made, seems it's quite common for this to happen, someone doesn't
want the the whole thing because a part has broken so they just take the bit they want :banghead:
It could have been a problem as I don't check emails on my phone, never have, so what would have happened
next ?
Click to expand...

Tell them they're welcome to mail you a receipt but you want a paper copy before you leave the store? Just say you don't have access to email? They'll probably find that a bit odd but I doubt if they'd challenge you on it.
 
Gremlin said:
I've just had a great example of it not working.
Popped into Halfords to get something for the car, got home and apart was missing,
an important part at that, back to Halfords and got a refund, 1st question was did I have the receipt!!
Bearing in mind I was asked if I wanted it emailed to me.
All was sorted and refund made, seems it's quite common for this to happen, someone doesn't
want the the whole thing because a part has broken so they just take the bit they want :banghead:
It could have been a problem as I don't check emails on my phone, never have, so what would have happened
next ?
Click to expand...

Why are you so against moving with the times and adapting?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Why are you so against moving with the times and adapting?
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Surely personal choice is still allowed ?
I like my peace and privacy, don't want my phone pinging all the time
I rarely connect it to 4g unless I need to, people that I care about know this and will text or phone me
 
Gremlin said:
Surely personal choice is still allowed ?
I like my peace and privacy, don't want my phone pinging all the time
I rarely connect it to 4g unless I need to, people that I care about know this and will text or phone me
Click to expand...

Your phone doesn't have to ping. You can turn off notifications. You don't need to be connected to 4G to poll email, it will do so over 3G or wifi.
 
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