2016 Photographer of the Year - 2016 (Discussion)

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Mike
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#6
Purely my personal opinion... I feel I need the monthly deadlines and voting to get me to enter...to be honest I really look forward to the monthly results...it gives me purpose to enter...it never was about coming first or even in the top ten...for me it was about challenge and looking forward to the images of my peers...I have learnt so much from them and loved the results of many...of course if you get in the points, all the better but I think the competition could struggle if there was nothing to look forward to each month...
I really appreciate that it take a lot of effort from all concerned behind the scenes and good grace has not always been fourth coming from some entrants, but I feel this new format may be the final nail in the POTY coffin.....I hope not and am happy to be proven wrong...
on saying all the above I will not abandon the challenge as TP has been a good friend to me and many others.

Like I say the words are just my personal opinion.
 

canon_togger

<span class="poty">POTY Winner 2010 & 2014</span>
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Marie
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#7
The competition is dying a slow death in its current format with fewer folk taking part overall.
I think the new format is worth a go, it may bring fresh interest from members who don't want to commit to entering every month or to shooting genres that they don't particularly like.
To be honest I thought it would most likely be scrapped after this year :(
 
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#8
so two images will somehow make someone the best landscape or portrait shooter of the entire year? really?
 
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Marc

Marc

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#9
@archangel

Mike, I hear what you're saying and understand how you feel but, as Marie has said, the current format has been struggling for a while now. I think there needed to be a radical change in order to breathe new life into it for next year and, hopefully, to spark interest from those who haven't ventured into this area of the forum before.

To be honest I thought it would most likely be scrapped after this year
It very nearly was
 
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Adrian
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#11
Marc @fabs, do you want to see if the staff team are interested in this for 2016?

I'm more than happy to collate the SPOTY entries in the same categories (keeping it simple) and we can then have a public vote for the winners in each category around the same time later next year?
 
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#12
Marc @fabs, do you want to see if the staff team are interested in this for 2016?

I'm more than happy to collate the SPOTY entries in the same categories (keeping it simple) and we can then have a public vote for the winners in each category around the same time later next year?
Adrian, if you're happy to run it again, I'll ask upstairs. (y)
 
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#13
I think its a good idea. Broadly. The current format is tragically dead, or at least circling the drain.

The new rules might get folk interested who don't have time or inclination to submit monthly. It won't garner any community and it won't help folk who like a deadline. But to be fair the place is hardly jumping most of the month mostly just folk shouting for results. 10 months is plenty of time to produce 2 good images. Conversely doesn't give us back markers much chance of producing a one off work of brilliance when others are having an off month.

I wasn't going to enter this year I was intending to concentrate on other stuff but I rekon I can get two shots together.
 
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Phil
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#14
Just a quick question. Can we submit shots that have been on Flickr, Facebook etc next year? This was against the rules previously but makes no mention this time
 
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#19
Maybe I'll actually get around to entering now the competition is subject-area-specific, though it does seem to be a 'photo of the year' rather than a 'photographer of the year' competition.



This is likely to be a sticking point. What's the thinking behind it?
Simon, my understanding is that historical competitions have had less than decent folk, publishing their images on TP and then getting members to vote for them when the polls open with a barrage of "please vote for my entry" type posts.

If I've read it correctly, 2016 will allow us to post to Flickr; 500px etc but just not promote it directly within TP?
 
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#20
Simon, my understanding is that historical competitions have had less than decent folk, publishing their images on TP and then getting members to vote for them when the polls open with a barrage of "please vote for my entry" type posts.

If I've read it correctly, 2016 will allow us to post to Flickr; 500px etc but just not promote it directly within TP?
Thanks - I hadn't realised that the final outcome was going to be determined by an open vote; the rules don't make that clear.
 
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#21
Thanks - I hadn't realised that the final outcome was going to be determined by an open vote; the rules don't make that clear.
If I've understood it correctly, it'll be like this year in principle: -

Entries displayed on TP and members vote for x number of entries in each category, creating a Top 10 in each based on number of votes from all members.
The Judges then decide on their individual votes and points on this Top 10 across each of the 5 categories, producing a winner/runners up in each of the categories

@fabs - Marc, is this correct?

· All entries will be displayed online, shortly after the closing date
· Judges will decide on a short-list of 10 entries for each section by November 30th 2016
· The final results will be announced by Christmas 2016
 
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Rich
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#23
How's about splitting the competition into 2 halves (6 months at a time), or even quarters, as surely no one will submit any entries until the last week before the deadline at the end of the year as they will be choosing their best 2 shots of that genre from their years shots

At least, that's how i'd do it, i would only be able to pick my top 2 nature/wildlife shots until i have finished shooting for the year, and that would mean not being able to post any of my better shots here on TP for a whole year

I was actually quite interested in joining this year, but i don't think the rules as they currently stand would work for me i'm afraid

At least splitting it into halves (or quarters) it keeps some interest throughout the year, you could take the winners from each half/quarter and have a final at the end of the year pitting both/all 4 winners against each other for a overall winner in each category

Just a thought
 

kennysarmy

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#24
How's about splitting the competition into 2 halves (6 months at a time), or even quarters, as surely no one will submit any entries until the last week before the deadline at the end of the year as they will be choosing their best 2 shots of that genre from their years shots

At least, that's how i'd do it, i would only be able to pick my top 2 nature/wildlife shots until i have finished shooting for the year, and that would mean not being able to post any of my better shots here on TP for a whole year

I was actually quite interested in joining this year, but i don't think the rules as they currently stand would work for me i'm afraid

At least splitting it into halves (or quarters) it keeps some interest throughout the year, you could take the winners from each half/quarter and have a final at the end of the year pitting both/all 4 winners against each other for a overall winner in each category

Just a thought
I always thought the main barrier to entry (argument given by others) was not being able to display photos on social media and the like!!
I don't see how the new format helps in that regard.....what's the difference between posting to Flickr and Facebook etc and posting on Talk Photography? Either way people could get feedback and suggestions on how to improve their shots before submission...the less restrictions the more entries surely?
 

kennysarmy

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#25
If I've understood it correctly, it'll be like this year in principle: -

Entries displayed on TP and members vote for x number of entries in each category, creating a Top 10 in each based on number of votes from all members.
The Judges then decide on their individual votes and points on this Top 10 across each of the 5 categories, producing a winner/runners up in each of the categories

@fabs - Marc, is this correct?
Not how I understood it.....judges decisions only was my interpretation.
 
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#26
I always thought the main barrier to entry (argument given by others) was not being able to display photos on social media and the like!!
I don't see how the new format helps in that regard.....what's the difference between posting to Flickr and Facebook etc and posting on Talk Photography? Either way people could get feedback and suggestions on how to improve their shots before submission...the less restrictions the more entries surely?
Exactly. I'm unlikely to shoot for a competition but quite likely to bung in a couple things which I happen to be pleased with, come the end of the year.
 
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#27
Exactly. I'm unlikely to shoot for a competition but quite likely to bung in a couple things which I happen to be pleased with, come the end of the year.
Indeed, especially when it comes to something like nature/wildlife, i could have the best intentions in the world and plan as hard as i like to get a shot for a competition entry, then the following week take a much better shot on a chance encounter

But not being able to post these photos onto TP would heavily restrict what i would be able to post for the following 12 months in case i wanted to enter any into the POTY
 
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#29
Can I put another voice in for removing the no posting to TP rule. I appreciate that its only two images but given how indecisive I am that could block up quite a lot of my work. If there are no prizes maybe we can just trust people to behave like adults. Yes I know is unlikely...
 
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#30
Guys, I'm hearing what you're saying and I'll reply properly this evening as I'm at work currently but I will say that nothing is set in stone yet. I really want this to be a competition that as many as possible want to take part in.
 
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#32
Ok, here goes. Hopefully, the following will answer your questions but, if I've missed anything or anyone out, just give me an "Oy!".

Can images be submitted that are covered under DataCo rules?
Sadly, I suspect not as the photos will be displayed on the forum.

Thanks - I hadn't realised that the final outcome was going to be determined by an open vote; the rules don't make that clear.
If I've understood it correctly, it'll be like this year in principle: -

Entries displayed on TP and members vote for x number of entries in each category, creating a Top 10 in each based on number of votes from all members.
The Judges then decide on their individual votes and points on this Top 10 across each of the 5 categories, producing a winner/runners up in each of the categories

@fabs - Marc, is this correct?
There are no plans to use peer voting for 2016. The judges will have a month to whittle the entries for each section down to 10 then a few weeks to decide the winners.

Sorry @Buck , you ain't getting off that easy. :D

Not how I read it Adrian, all is done behind closed doors In staff room with plenty of Jaffa cakes
At this point, there are no members of Site Staff on the judging panel. ;)

This is likely to be a sticking point. What's the thinking behind it?
I always thought the main barrier to entry (argument given by others) was not being able to display photos on social media and the like!!
I don't see how the new format helps in that regard.....what's the difference between posting to Flickr and Facebook etc and posting on Talk Photography? Either way people could get feedback and suggestions on how to improve their shots before submission...the less restrictions the more entries surely?
At least, that's how i'd do it, i would only be able to pick my top 2 nature/wildlife shots until i have finished shooting for the year, and that would mean not being able to post any of my better shots here on TP for a whole year

I was actually quite interested in joining this year, but i don't think the rules as they currently stand would work for me i'm afraid
I did have a long hard think about this one to be honest. The "not on TP" rule has been in place for the whole 9 years of the competition AFAIK and was originally implemented to prevent people from gauging votes when it was all peer voting. The "other social media" aspect was brought in by Darren in 2013.

As I said, I had a good think and I decided to go with a compromise and remove the "other social media" aspect but, having also had a PM conversation with one of the judges, I am inclined to now remove the restriction altogether. The rule was mainly to facilitate anonymity but, as we have no peer voting at all and I have no doubts whatsoever as to the integrity of the judges, it may be wrong to implement the rule if it's seen as a major barrier to entry for some.

So, watch this space. ;)

How's about splitting the competition into 2 halves (6 months at a time), or even quarters,
I can see where you're coming from but I really would like to keep it to just the one set, for 2016 at least.
 
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#33
Good reflection and explanation Marc.

Sorry @Buck , you ain't getting off that easy. :D
Dang!! Worth a try! :)


I don't have any 'grumbles' about the proposed rules for 2016 but do recognise the challenge and frustration of having to keep a photo back for what will be a long time next year. For what is worth I don't I like the idea of each photo being 'anonymous' but if somebody wants to post on one of the areas of the forum ahead of the judging then I wouldn't class it as a show stopper and personally, would be happy with that tweak to the rules (y)

Looking forward to this starting :snaphappy: just need to finish off 2015 now! :exit:
 
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#34
The entries will be posted in galleries at 1st as I'm hoping there'll be so many that threads would be unwieldy. :naughty:
 
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David
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#35
· Images can be film or digital, there will be no separate film competition
This I approve of!
 
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David
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#36
The competition is dying a slow death in its current format with fewer folk taking part overall.
I think the new format is worth a go, it may bring fresh interest from members who don't want to commit to entering every month or to shooting genres that they don't particularly like.
To be honest I thought it would most likely be scrapped after this year :(

This. The old format meant that you had to spend a great deal of time shooting things you weren't particularly interested in in order to accrue points enough to win anything.

I think the new format is a breath of fresh air. It depends who's judging it of course. I hope there's a balance across the judging panel as there are some widely diverse views on photography amongst TP staff. I hope that's utilised well.
 

TheBigYin

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#37
I hope there's a balance across the judging panel as there are some widely diverse views on photography amongst TP staff.
I'd certainly agree with you there David, however, to be honest, the Staff/Admin's views should be immaterial as...

At this point, there are no members of Site Staff on the judging panel. ;)
 
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blakester

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#38
I agree with @Pookeyhead, David, I think this is a breath of fresh air blown through the competition.

I feel the discussion part of the competition may suffer a little because of it though. This isn't necessarily a bad thing or a negative, it may be that it'll just be a little quiet in here in the run up to submission date.
This change has certainly tempted me to having a go at the competition again. Working towards submissions is appealing IMHO, refining, reviewing etc as the year progresses, almost a project in itself.

Overall, great idea!
 
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#39
I'd certainly agree with you there David, however, to be honest, the Staff/Admin's views should be immaterial as...

Who's judging? It will make a huge difference as to whether I enter or not.
 
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