Prints significantly darker when printed using paper profiles vs colour managed by printer

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James
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#1
Evening all,

I've been trying to print one of my photos this evening on Permajet Oyster 271 however, when I use a paper profile the resulting print is significantly darker compared with what I see on my screen (even after soft proofing). The oddity here is, when I print and allow the printer driver to control the colour management the print looks more or less how I see it on my monitor but if I use the Permajet Oyster profile the resulting print is significantly darker (about 1 stop maybe more).

I've set the printer driver so LR manages the colour but this doesn't seem to be working, there seems to be some sort of double profiling going on somewhere that I can't work out; the print is dark enough that the shadows are blocked.

The specifics are:
Printer - Canon IP8750
Paper - Permajet Oyster 271
Colour managed by printer = print more or less what is on my screen
LR managing colour = seriously dark print

Screenshots of my settings






With all the Googling I've done I just can't seem to pin point where the problem lies.

Any words of advice would be hugely appreciated as I'm at my wits end.
James
 
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vtrjames
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439
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James
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#2
So after much faffing about I finally got it to play ball. I followed this thread here:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2525504

To summarise the thread I...
Set the profile to AdobeRGB
Printed a copy
Set profile to managed by printer
Printed copy
Set profile to Oyster 271
Printed copy which was for all intents and purposes more or less what was on my screen (infinitely closer anyway!)

James
 
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vtrjames
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James
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#3
Looking at the prints with a fresh set of eyes this morning, the print managed by the printer is still definitely lighter than the print managed by Lightroom (it's closer but still not a close match to the screen).

I'm still at a complete loss why this is the case. Short of re-installing Lightroom I'm not sure what else to do :(

James
 
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Ian
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#4
You don't mention whether you've calibrated your screen. If your screen is too bright this could be a reason (why is your un-profiled print fine? luck)
Also, paper profiles can be wrong. My Fotospeed contact sheet paper is dark, but many other papers I use are fine. Try a different (non permajet paper) and see if the problem persists.
 
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vtrjames
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James
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#5
You don't mention whether you've calibrated your screen. If your screen is too bright this could be a reason (why is your un-profiled print fine? luck)
Also, paper profiles can be wrong. My Fotospeed contact sheet paper is dark, but many other papers I use are fine. Try a different (non permajet paper) and see if the problem persists.
Morning!

The screen has been calibrated not so long ago (maybe a fortnight).

To be honest, I was beginning to think it was the paper profiles as the prints using the Canon paper supplied by with the printer were spot on but my thinking was that I wouldn't be the only person to have this problem.

It's a shame because I've just bought an A3 pack of Permajet Oyster. I might drop them a line and ask what they think.
 
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#6
I had issues with printing and began to figure out how much to adjust in the Lightroom Colour management box print adjustment - which you show in one of your screenshots. I turned my Mac brightness down and also put in a daylight bulb in the room where I print. It certainly is a dark art, this printing lark. Very rewarding when it goes well. I bought my printer from Fotospeed and their tech guy is very patient and always rings me back when he can’t immediately take my call. I have been away for a few weeks and suspect that I will have to relearn some of my adjustments. I also try and remember to note on the back of prints that I don’t use for the wall or competition etc what I did to them.
 
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vtrjames
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James
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#7
I've turned the monitor brightness right the way down but I can't get the screen as dark as the prints without turning the brightness down to around 0.

The other odd thing is that the prints on the Canon paper or near enough spot on. Thanks @Harlequin565 for making me think of that.

I've just emailed Permajet so will keep you all updated.

James

Edit
Permajet have replied saying I need to create a custom profile. Will keep you all up to date.
 
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686
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Jim
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#9
Interestingly i've recently got a new, to me, printer and have printed a few shots out. I did look at some online videos and made some small tweeks, such as upping the exposure by about 0.3 and the contrast very slightly. My prints came out looking OK - I also sent one of the, un-adjusted, files off to be printed and when it came back it was pretty much identical to the one i'd produced, so i'm fairly happy that i'll be able to print images which are pretty much true to what I see on my screen.

Good luck with getting yours sorted out.
 
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#10
In your third screen shot, you have colour correction set to none. I think it should be set to ICM which means that the software is using the colour management profile. As you are, you have no colour management at all - not the software, not the printer.
 
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vtrjames
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James
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#11
In your third screen shot, you have colour correction set to none. I think it should be set to ICM which means that the software is using the colour management profile. As you are, you have no colour management at all - not the software, not the printer.
I'd tried that as well but to no avail. Are you a Windows user? If so, would you mind sharing your settings with me?

I've ordered a test pack and some ink; I'm basically out of ink after last night's test runs. My plan is to print the test sheets Permajet require and send them off all in one go so they can create the profiles for me.

I'd be over the moon if it is just me being stupid.

James
 
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vtrjames
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James
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#13
Evening all,

I received my print profiles back from Permajet today after sending them by 1st class post yesterday afternoon and I must say it's a brilliant service. I've since printed off the image I was struggling to get to match the screen and the resultant output is light years away from the previous prints and matches what's on the screen; I'm really pleased with it.

I would thoroughly recommend getting in touch with Permajet if you ever end up struggling like I did, the customer service is brilliant.

James

**Edited To add the following**
I've just printed another image and I really want to re-iterate what other posters have said, the struggle is worth it!
 
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