Puffins: Lundy vs Skomer island and best time to visit?

Thank you for all your feedback.

I really want to go (I'd like to see Icelandic Puffins but the times they are nesting in Iceland is not in my budget, most of my visits have been outside of those times) - and I can completely understand why there would be negative views to what is going on if it has got so popular. much like Iceland, sounds like a minority of f*ckwits are being selfish and ruining it for everyone else and not caring about the animals or the flora and fauna.

Because I'd be coming from Essex, I'm beginning to think a one day trip might only be possible for me, as it will just end up too costly with B&B either side of the trip, plus travel costs to get there (by train or coach or car, whichever) but don't know if I'm really limiting myself by doing that. I feel like a need a workshop, just to give me a few pointers, as I have never done anything like this before and wouldn't want to come back regretting it (I'm very good at that). I was sure I saw one workshop which is an evening, rather than a day trip so maybe that's better in terms of shooting conditions, I don't know.

I guess i have a while to decide before the waiting lists open - i am so terrible at decisions....
 
I'll have to try again this year, we missed out last year because of the weather. The boat crossing was unavailable for the 5 days we were there
 
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Trying to book accommodation in the peak sandeel period is a nightmare. Last year myself and two mates made over 1500 phone calls when the booking opened. One of us eventually got through.

It used to be that pro outfits that advertised workshops on Skomer got first chance of booking, even before it was opened to Wildlife Trust members. This has now been stopped much to the irritation of said outfits. Personally I feel that if anyone should be given preferential treatment then it should be pros who live in the area and support the trust year in year out by bringing people to the island and not people whose only interest in coming to the island is to make a profit and then disappear until the following year. However the trust has decided that everyone has to take their chances when the booking office opens.

I'm going in June on a two day visit on a trip organised by a mate of mine. I think there's 14 of us going. I'm not going with the intention of being taught anything, I'm going because I know some of the people going and know we will have a good time. Also we will be hoping to do some Astro photography while we are there if the weather permits so it's not all about the birds.

When I stay there I tend to go out early in the morning and then again after the visitors have gone home. I don't bother at all in the middle of the day at places like the wick if it's a bright day, simply too much contrast on the birds. I usually pack a macro lens and spend a couple of hours on that.
 
Gaz J said:
I don't bother at all in the middle of the day at places like the wick if it's a bright day, simply too much contrast on the birds.
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Last time I went I almost forgot to take photos as I was just engrossed in watching the spectacle
 
I went to Skomer last year. Got up nice an early, drive 55 miles, arrived 45 minutes before the first boat was due to leave. Tickets sold out.
Got back in the car and drove 55 miles home.

Stuffed if I'm going to wait around in a car park from 5am so guess I'll never go unless they can change the way tickets are sold.
 
ecoleman said:
I went to Skomer last year. Got up nice an early, drive 55 miles, arrived 45 minutes before the first boat was due to leave. Tickets sold out.
Got back in the car and drove 55 miles home.

Stuffed if I'm going to wait around in a car park from 5am so guess I'll never go unless they can change the way tickets are sold.
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When we went ( about 5 years ago now) we got up early, queued for a ticket, bought one for about 10.00 then went back to the B&B for breakfast, got ready and came down to meet the boat. It's the only way I know how to get a ticket.
 
I spoke to the trust last year about the antiquated ticket system. They say they can't have an online system because if the boat doesn't run then they would have to give refunds and if people had booked and didn't turn up that would be a problem.

I struggle to see how that prevents them having one. If you book and don't turn up you lose your money. If the boat doesn't run they simply refund all ticket holders that day. How hard can it be?

Generally if a few of us go over for the day one of us gets there early and gets all the tickets. Next time someone else gets bored for a couple of hours waiting for the office to open.
 
Jelster said:
When we went ( about 5 years ago now) we got up early, queued for a ticket, bought one for about 10.00 then went back to the B&B for breakfast, got ready and came down to meet the boat. It's the only way I know how to get a ticket.
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That's a good plan, but to be honest, spending a couple of hours around the Deer Park while you wait for your boat is not exactly a chore......

Another good option if you can't get on to the island is to take the evening cruise from Martins Haven. It lasted a couple of hours IIRC with an incredibly knowedgeable guide. You go in and out of several of the bays around the island where the puffins are gathering. Cost about £16 IIRC.
 
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jerry12953 said:
To anyone with enough time, consider going to Skokholm instead. It's also bookable through the Wildlife Trust, but there are no day trips so be prepared to spend at least 3 or 4 days there. (I'm not sure what the arrangements are currently)

Absolute bliss!
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It seems wonderful, I doubt that I could ever get my wife to agree to it though.
 
Booking a Stay on Skokholm

Overnight stays of 3 days (from Fridays) and 4 days (from Mondays) cost £140 from April to July and £110 for August and September.

A 7 day stay cost £260 during April to July and £170 during August and September.
 
Gaz J said:
I spoke to the trust last year about the antiquated ticket system. They say they can't have an online system because if the boat doesn't run then they would have to give refunds and if people had booked and didn't turn up that would be a problem.

I struggle to see how that prevents them having one. If you book and don't turn up you lose your money. If the boat doesn't run they simply refund all ticket holders that day. How hard can it be?
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I can see your point but I can also see theirs too. The booking and refunding would take up a lot of administration time that they probably don’t have the time for. Another reason could be that they don’t have the money to buy and run an online system. When I went last year I forgot the date when to pay the final instalment. Previously I had got reminders and an invoice sent to me a few months before I was going. When I phoned to pay I asked about the reminder, they said they just didn’t have the funding to manage it as well as they used to so don’t send them now. When I booked that year I paid the deposit by card payment on the phone rather than the usual cheque with the booking form. I guess that was because they were looking at reducing administration costs. If I remember rightly didn’t they last year a move all of the management of overnight booking to another office (probably in an attempt to save money).

If you ask me The wildlife trust could make so much more from running trips to Skomer than they do at present. You just have to look at the prices of photography workshops to see how much they could make if they ran them themselves. £45-60 a night on Skomer is fantastically cheap for photographers when workshop or hide hires run into £100-200. They could easily block book the accommodation and run workshops for up to 16 photographers without too much issue, and photographers cause less of an effect in birders or other non photographers.

The prices above for skokholm are crazy, you can’t get a room in a b&b for those prices. photographers would probably pay a little extra for this kinda bad of access, whereas birders don’t get the same out of it (as such). I do feel they should start a photography permit scheme if you want to sell your photos taken there. After all other private estates/zoos/wildlife parks do it so why not Skomer? It may also help relieve the photographer/birder angst a little and get them a little more money in that would help the seabirds and the running of the island.
 
I don't think the trust would entertain doing workshops for photographers. I think they would be very happy not to see large groups of photographers on the island either on day trips or over nighters.
 
I don't think the Wildlife Trust would be capable of organising any photography workshops, That is why they leave it to their favoured photographer Andy Davies. I'm not sure what the arrangement is.

As far as the cost of rooms on Skokholm are concerned they're basic, tidy and clean (at least they were a few years ago) but it's self-catering, so not directly comparable with a b&b.

Yes, they probably could up the prices a little but that would disadvantage other people who are not used to paying photography workshop prices. The Trust must feel that they are charging a fair price for what people get. I think it is the price that photographers are willing to pay elsewhere that is out of proportion to what you actually get (but that is a different issue).

Please don't give the Wildlife Trust any more ideas about how they could raise more money from photographers! It's not as if anybody could actually make any dosh from yet another photograph of a puffin. They're not exactly thin on the ground.

Sorry about all the edits.
 
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The ticketing system is far from ideal for the customer but it works for the WWF and the boat operators. There are ways around it but they cost.

Personally I would recommend Andy Davies as he arranges the tickets but you need to sort out your own accommodation, which is not difficult.

I hope they do not increase prices to workshop levels as many visitors are not photographers and just want to see the puffins and have a relaxing day.
 
jerry12953 said:
I don't think the Wildlife Trust would be capable of organising any photography workshops, That is why they leave it to their favoured photographer Andy Davies. I'm not sure what the arrangement is.
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I had seen on the website Andy does the workshop in conjunction with the wildlife trust but there seems to be several others that offer overnight workshops that are not advertised by the wildlife trust. I’m not exactly sure how they do that as I remind the T&Cs from one of my stays mentioned the accommodation should not be used for any commercial reasons so I guess that covers the point I made earlier.

Archie747 said:
I hope they do not increase prices to workshop levels as many visitors are not photographers and just want to see the puffins and have a relaxing day.
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I think we are probably talking about different things (day trips and overnight stays). I can’t see them ever increasing the cost of day trips just because of photographers, that wouldn’t be far on the normal day visitors. I do feel there is something they could potentially do with overnight photography workshops to stop there impact on other guests and profit from them too. I’ve seen several advertise over the years and I’ve been on the island with some of them too. It does feel a little like photographers can take over a little when there is a large number of them on the island at the same time. That said it’s a lottery who you are on the island with.

The comment regarding B&Bs was to show how cheap is it for what you get as it’s more than accommodation. don’t forget the landing fee is included in the cost of overnight stays so that saves everyone around £10 compared to day trippers (its probably calculated into the overnight stay cost).

The accomdation is more like a hostel so probably more comparable with that. To be honest you aren’t really paying for the accommodation, it’s the access to the location and ability to stay on an otherwise inaccessible private island with very few people on it overnight. That alone is worth the money, add the fantastic wildlife it’s an absolute bargain. For photographers the bonus is photographing subjects close up in possibily great light. It is a difficult one to price and its probably about right for self booked, it’s the potential loss to the wildlife trust for the perhaps unofficial photography workshops potential that I feel they are missing out on (I’m hoping they do charge some kind of additional fee).

jerry12953 said:
Please don't give the Wildlife Trust any more ideas about how they could raise more money from photographers!
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There is one idea I could give them but I better not put them on here then! It would potentially affect everyone so wouldn’t disadvantage photographers unfairly, it may actually make a lot of people who find it difficult to get onto the island happier with how everyone takes advantage of the ‘members’ advanced booking.

With the likely cost of running the accomdation (they had a £25k appeal after this winters storm damage) in some ways it’s actually in our interests Skomer and Skokholm are profitable so they remain open to visitors to enjoy for years to come.
 
For the cost of joining the trust and getting free access to the island apart from boat fess its a bargain if you go fairly regularly.

I don't know what arrangement the trust has with Andy Davies. Pro photographers who want to take clients to the island have to pay the trust for that opportunity, but still don't get any special treatment. I find it hard to understand that, after stopping pro outfits from getting first dibs on the accomodation, they can justify giving him this perk.
 
Gaz J said:
For the cost of joining the trust and getting free access to the island apart from boat fess its a bargain if you go fairly regularly.

I don't know what arrangement the trust has with Andy Davies. Pro photographers who want to take clients to the island have to pay the trust for that opportunity, but still don't get any special treatment. I find it hard to understand that, after stopping pro outfits from getting first dibs on the accomodation, they can justify giving him this perk.
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They must get something as without any special arrangements it would be very difficult to arrange ferry tickets and accommodation for a group. I get the impression they look after the locals and why not.
 
Archie747 said:
They must get something as without any special arrangements it would be very difficult to arrange ferry tickets and accommodation for a group. I get the impression they look after the locals and why not.
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No, the arrangement they have with him is a one off. I have a mate who takes many people to the island over the season. He pays the trust a fee to allow him to do it but doesn't even get a place on the first boat guaranteed.
 
Gaz J said:
No, the arrangement they have with him is a one off. I have a mate who takes many people to the island over the season. He pays the trust a fee to allow him to do it but doesn't even get a place on the first boat guaranteed.
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Does he just provide day trips or overnight stays as well? I'm not disputing what you say, but other photographers offer workshops on the island with accommodation. Perhaps WWT they only allow such workshops to a few photographers?
 
Archie747 said:
Does he just provide day trips or overnight stays as well? I'm not disputing what you say, but other photographers offer workshops on the island with accommodation. Perhaps WWT they only allow such workshops to a few photographers?
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He does both. This is his second year. Last year he made over 600 calls to try and book accommodation for 3 nights. This year he only managed to get 2 nights. I'm with you on giving perks to local pros but the last conversation I had with the trust was that no pro outfit gets special treatment. Except for one!!
 
Gaz J said:
He does both. This is his second year. Last year he made over 600 calls to try and book accommodation for 3 nights. This year he only managed to get 2 nights. I'm with you on giving perks to local pros but the last conversation I had with the trust was that no pro outfit gets special treatment. Except for one!!
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Thanks for that, very interesting.

It does seem that WWT and the ferry ticketing system could be updated.

One of my friends is an ex-teacher you used to take a group of students to Skomer. Next time I see her I'll ask what arrrangements they had.
 
Archie747 said:
Thanks for that, very interesting.

It does seem that WWT and the ferry ticketing system could be updated.

One of my friends is an ex-teacher you used to take a group of students to Skomer. Next time I see her I'll ask what arrrangements they had.
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Schools have so kind of advanced booking for day trips. When I went on a day trip a few years back (2013) the second boat was already fully booked for school trip. I was in the queue, the person in front of me got the last space on the first boat, we got the first places on the third boat. We only found out it was a school trip when their coach turned up. The thing I thought strange was it was a Sunday and they would have sold out the tickets without the school party. Why they didn't restrict schools parties to school weekdays when there is probably lower demand for places I don't know.

As far as I knew the workshops used to both like others did during the members period, which is why they never advertised the worksop date until October (when they could book). The problem is whilst the first two weeks is a members advanced booking time you don't all have to be members. A member can book for non members so it only needs one person in the group to be a member and book places for everyone in advance. I'm not sure if it needs one member per room or if its just one member per booking.
 
rob-nikon said:
Schools have so kind of advanced booking for day trips. When I went on a day trip a few years back (2013) the second boat was already fully booked for school trip. I was in the queue, the person in front of me got the last space on the first boat, we got the first places on the third boat. We only found out it was a school trip when their coach turned up. The thing I thought strange was it was a Sunday and they would have sold out the tickets without the school party. Why they didn't restrict schools parties to school weekdays when there is probably lower demand for places I don't know.

As far as I knew the workshops used to both like others did during the members period, which is why they never advertised the worksop date until October (when they could book). The problem is whilst the first two weeks is a members advanced booking time you don't all have to be members. A member can book for non members so it only needs one person in the group to be a member and book places for everyone in advance. I'm not sure if it needs one member per room or if its just one member per booking.
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Must be just a member who books the accommodation because not everyone who goes on the workshops will be members.

It always used to puzzle me how pro outfits were advertising dates on Skomer way in advance of the booking opening and always getting the dates they advertised until I found out that the trust was giving them first pick before the members booking opened. Since last year I've seen these companies advertising dates but have then seen them being changed after the booking opens which fits in with the change of policy that they have to take the same chance as everyone else.

The booking office used to be quite close to me but I think they've moved it up around the Bridgend area now.

If you do go on a workshop or book some time on the island yourself make sure you've got plenty of batteries. It's not really set up for photographers needs re charging anything. Usually the available sockets have mobiles plugged in all the time and they won't let you use multi plug leads. I usually take a battery pack for my phone and iPad which is good for a few recharges. Oh and don't have a shower in the morning, have them at night.
 
Gaz J said:
Booking a Stay on Skokholm

Overnight stays of 3 days (from Fridays) and 4 days (from Mondays) cost £140 from April to July and £110 for August and September.

A 7 day stay cost £260 during April to July and £170 during August and September.
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Is there enough to see on a 7 day stay?

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There's only so much of puffins running around your feet... I was sat down and this one ran between my legs as cover to avoid the birds trying to grab the sandeels.

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jerry12953 said:
Many people go for the experience of staying on a (fairly) remote island without day visitors and the joy of being close to wildlife at all times. It's a real get-away-from-it-all experience. Course if that's not your thing.........
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Thats great, I can see the attraction of an overnight, I was wondering what you'd do for 7 days
 
I've overnighted at Skomer many times and often found it gets packed at the Wick at night...

amanda1.jpg
 
mrgubby said:
I've overnighted at Skomer many times and often found it gets packed at the Wick at night...

amanda1.jpg
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What about the 50 people behind you! Is the light better in the evenings? Can be a bit harsh and in the wrong direction during the day.
 
jerry12953 said:
Maybe for seven days you'd be a birder, waiting for rare migrants to drop in, or you could see it as a retreat, with all that that brings into the equation.

i've done it for four nights and i really didn't want to leave.
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Are there as many birds on Skokholm?
 
Archie747 said:
What about the 50 people behind you! Is the light better in the evenings? Can be a bit harsh and in the wrong direction during the day.
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I’ve been the only person at the wick at midday once (it was a Monday and the island closed to day trippers). Fantastic to be like that when it’s not usually like that.

The light is much better in the evenings than during the day (to be honest that generally the way anywhere in the UK in the summer). Websites like jeko sunrise calculator can show you the direction of the light on different days. Generally it moves to the right setting behind the cliff on the right.

A small selection of puffin images taken in the evenings can be seen on my website below.

http://robcain.photography/Atlantic-Puffins-Skomer-Island

There are more on my Flickr puffin album.
 
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rob-nikon said:
I’ve been the only person at the wick at midday once (it was a Monday and the island closed to day trippers). Fantastic to be like that when it’s not usually like that.

The light is much better in the evenings than during the day (to be honest that generally the way anywhere in the UK in the summer). Websites like jeko sunrise calculator can show you the direction of the light on different days. Generally it moves to the right setting behind the cliff on the right.

A small selection of puffin images taken in the evenings can be seen on my website below.

http://robcain.photography/Atlantic-Puffins-Skomer-Island

There are more on my Flickr puffin album.
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Thanks. Great shots.
 
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