RCA takes stance against 'Amateur' photography on racecourses

You may use mobile devices and point-and-shoot or compact cameras to capture images for your own private and domestic use (but you shall not use professional level photography or filming equipment).
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So the use of an evil DSLR or equivalent is banned but a compact is okay :thinking:
 
Sounds like a sledgehammer cracking a nut to me and will likely drive away the enthusiast from racecourses.
 
So i'll be ok with my finepix HS30EXR with its x30 zoom,but not with my D3100???
 
RaglanSurf said:
Sounds like a sledgehammer cracking a nut to me and will likely drive away the enthusiast from racecourses.
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If the 'enthusiast' is there taking shots for their own use, there's no problem. If they are there to upload 200 images to Flickr/Facebook and give them away for the sake of their own ego, there is.
It's a balanced and fair ruling.
 
Not surprised.
I went for the first time a few months ago, just as practice.

My photos of the actual racing all had big white barriers in them, so would never have been published even if I'd tried to do that (which I had no intention of doing) I did get some nice shots around the paddock but would have got them with a compact/bridge camera.

Still, if it protects the people earning a living and the industry its a good thing.
 
DemiLion said:
If the 'enthusiast' is there taking shots for their own use, there's no problem. If they are there to upload 200 images to Flickr/Facebook and give them away for the sake of their own ego, there is.
It's a balanced and fair ruling.
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I agree but it reads like there's a blanket ban on DSLR's,
 
RaglanSurf said:
I agree but it reads like there's a blanket ban on DSLR's,
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That's a catch all enabling them to remove someone. The RCA aren't banning the use of DSlr's on racecourses as long as you play fair.

This is the salient point:

"Whilst racecourses do not wish to dissuade customers from taking pictures of their day out, and sharing them on social media, this must remain at a personal and private level."
 
Fair play. Surprised that they're only just acknowledging this.

To me, it seems the only way that sports photography as an industry can continue. It needs to strenuously implement these kinds of rules, with the help of venues and governing bodies. Then allow professionals/agencies to apply for accreditation in a fair and reasoned way, which, by the way, does NOT happen in Australia!
 
RaglanSurf said:
Sounds like a sledgehammer cracking a nut to me and will likely drive away the enthusiast from racecourses.
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Nobody is stopping Photogrpahy.. Only the use of it as commercial.. How on earth is that going to drive away racing enthusiasts... I think your being a bit of a drama queen with that statement.. seriously ..
 
Eh? There's nothing stopping you going and taking pictures - read the article.

What you are banned from is claiming you are an 'amateur' and then bulk uploading large volumes of images to Flickr, Facebook et al.

You aren't going to get hauled over the coal for a dozen or so 'portfolio' images,
 
Maybe if people hadn't taken the p*** in the first place...................
 
KIPAX said:
Nobody is stopping Photogrpahy.. Only the use of it as commercial.. How on earth is that going to drive away racing enthusiasts... I think your being a bit of a drama queen with that statement.. seriously ..
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Seriously? From their website "You may use mobile devices and point-and-shoot or compact cameras to capture images for your own private and domestic use (but you shall not use professional level photography or filming equipment)." If it looks like a sledgehammer, smells like a sledgehammer and breaks legs like a sledgehammer I'd say there's a pretty good chance it's a sledgehammer.
 
Those rules have been in position for years. I replied to you in post #9 about that.

If you just want to cry like a baby about a non-issue, then carry on.

No one is going to stop you photographing at a racecourse, unless you are taking the p***.

By the way, I've got some shocking news for you...

Racing in the UK isn't organised to provide amateurs with a stunning photographic vista - that's a lucky bye-product.

It's a business and that business is protecting its interests.
 
DemiLion said:
That's a catch all enabling them to remove someone. The RCA aren't banning the use of DSlr's on racecourses as long as you play fair.

This is the salient point:

"Whilst racecourses do not wish to dissuade customers from taking pictures of their day out, and sharing them on social media, this must remain at a personal and private level."
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What absolute nonsense!

Did you read the link you posted?

Where does it say they aren't banning DSLRs?

The salient point is....

"You may use mobile devices and point-and-shoot or compact cameras to capture images for your own private and domestic use (but you shall not use professional level photography or filming equipment)....."
 
So you are all right with your mega expensive Leica so long as you cover up the red dot, as they will think its not a professional level bit of kit, just a point and shoot, even if you need to be a pro / very advanced amateur or plain rich to be using one.

It also says you can share on social media but not "on a large scale where they are available for download, even at no cost, cannot be considered as being for personal and private use".

Isn't posting on fb 'on a large scale'.
 
I didnt realise so many people went to horse racing with a dslr and would now be put off from going... live and learn eh ..

yep.. sarcasm :)
 
Mikesphotaes said:
What absolute nonsense!

Did you read the link you posted?
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Well, yes as it happens, I did read the webpage that I posted - strange that.

Tell me, as you have a clear understanding of the workings of the racing industry, which part of what I said was nonsense?
As you have extensive experience on racecourses, you'll know the precedent I hope. You'll also understand and know why the RCA has made this announcement?
 
KIPAX said:
I didnt realise so many people went to horse racing with a dslr and would now be put off from going... live and learn eh ..

yep.. sarcasm :)
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Have to admit, the only time I've been to York races was with my camera. Yes, my other half dragged me there for a bit of fun but I took that as an opportunity to take some photos as I do of many event. Most of my pics were of people rather than the horses themselves, although I did take a few (on TP somewhere).
I take photos for the challenge of taking them but if someone wanted a copy then I ask for a fee (unless it was for facefcuk). If an event said I couldn't do that for a commercial reason then I would respect that.
I don't get why people get upset about going on to private land and not agreeing to their rules. They gave to make a living!
 
DemiLion said:
Well, yes as it happens, I did read the webpage that I posted - strange that.

Tell me, as you have a clear understanding of the workings of the racing industry, which part of what I said was nonsense?
As you have extensive experience on racecourses, you'll know the precedent I hope. You'll also understand and know why the RCA has made this announcement?
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My, my, I quoted the part that was nonsense, so that you would see clearly that the link you supplied (and claimed you read) says "You may use mobile devices and point-and-shoot or compact cameras to capture images for your own private and domestic use (but you shall not use professional level photography or filming equipment)....."

Now if you can't see that applies to DSLRs, as numerous folk have told you, there is no point in continuing.

Oh yes and your assumptions on your assumptions are making a donkey out of you.

Strange that!
 
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DemiLion said:
Those rules have been in position for years. I replied to you in post #9 about that.

If you just want to cry like a baby about a non-issue, then carry on.

No one is going to stop you photographing at a racecourse, unless you are taking the p***.

By the way, I've got some shocking news for you...

Racing in the UK isn't organised to provide amateurs with a stunning photographic vista - that's a lucky bye-product.

It's a business and that business is protecting its interests.
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I can't see any way that posting a dozen of my photos on Facebook would harm their business, or yours.

Of the 400 or so friends and family who would have seen my pictures, I can only think of one who goes racing regularly, and I can't imagine that he'd stop logging onto the racing post website because he can view pics on my Facebook every few months from the back straight at Uttoxeter.
If anything my pictures might even get the racing to a completely different audience, some of whom might even be inspired to go themselves.
It's not organised to provide me with a stunning vista, but it is organised to get people to pay entrance money, have a bet and buy food and drinks, the same as other places like Chatsworth House etc., something I was quite happy to do.
It just seems odd to me, but if thems the rules then that's up to them.
 
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Ramalama said:
I can't see any way that posting a dozen of my photos on Facebook would harm their business, or yours.

Of the 400 or so friends and family who would have seen my pictures, I can only think of one who goes racing regularly, and I can't imagine that he'd stop logging onto the racing post website because he can view pics on my Facebook every few months from the back straight at Uttoxeter.
If anything my pictures might even get the racing to a completely different audience, some of whom might even be inspired to go themselves.
It's not organised to provide me with a stunning vista, but it is organised to get people to pay entrance money, have a bet and buy food and drinks, the same as other places like Chatsworth House etc., something I was quite happy to do.
It just seems odd to me, but if thems the rules then that's up to them.
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Did you see the post above where I said exactly that?

Here it is again for you:


DemiLion said:
Eh? There's nothing stopping you going and taking pictures - read the article.

What you are banned from is claiming you are an 'amateur' and then bulk uploading large volumes of images to Flickr, Facebook et al.

You aren't going to get hauled over the coal for a dozen or so 'portfolio' images,
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The regs are designed to enable the RCA to counter the shamateurs.
Those people who turn up to meetings and then post a hundred or so images, each race, each horse (where they can).

If that's what you are doing (and I'm not saying that you are), then your days are numbered. If you aren't, then there's nothing to worry about.

The RCA aren't going to start kicking out random people with nice cameras. They already know exactly who these people are - it's a small world.
That's why I've put the word amateur in inverted commas each time - these people aren't amateurs.

Chill out and enjoy racing!
 
Mikesphotaes said:
My, my, I quoted the part that was nonsense, so that you would see clearly that the link you supplied (and claimed you read) says "You may use mobile devices and point-and-shoot or compact cameras to capture images for your own private and domestic use (but you shall not use professional level photography or filming equipment)....."

Now if you can't see that applies to DSLRs, as numerous folk have told you, there is no point in continuing.

Oh yes and your assumptions on your assumptions are making a donkey out of you.

Strange that!
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See my post above.
 
DemiLion said:
Did you see the post above where I said exactly that?

Here it is again for you:




The regs are designed to enable the RCA to counter the shamateurs.
Those people who turn up to meetings and then post a hundred or so images, each race, each horse (where they can).

If that's what you are doing (and I'm not saying that you are), then your days are numbered. If you aren't, then there's nothing to worry about.

The RCA aren't going to start kicking out random people with nice cameras. They already know exactly who these people are - it's a small world.
That's why I've put the word amateur in inverted commas each time - these people aren't amateurs.

Chill out and enjoy racing!
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OK, fair enough, I guess you're saying it's not me they're trying to stop, but it would still make me feel a bit 'devious' (if that's the right word) going with a DSLR when it's frowned upon.

KIPAX said:
I didnt realise so many people went to horse racing with a dslr and would now be put off from going... live and learn eh ..

yep.. sarcasm :)
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Out of the millions that go to Horse Racing it's probably a tiny percentage who would go to take photos, not really worth them worrying about TBH, however on a photography message board, I would imagine nearly all of them who go to Horse Racing would go to take pictures in some capacity.

Whenever we go out for the day, we would usually pick somewhere with my photography in mind, for instance I only started going to non-league football to see how I'd get on at taking photos at games, now I go whenever I get the chance because I enjoy it.
On the other hand I go to Donnington Touring Cars every year purely to take photos, I have no interest in motor sports whatsoever, I started going because I saw other people's photos and wanted to try myself, however a few of my family started tagging along with me a few years ago and now it's become an annual event for around 12 of us.
 
Ramalama said:
OK, fair enough, I guess you're saying it's not me they're trying to stop, but it would still make me feel a bit 'devious' (if that's the right word) going with a DSLR when it's frowned upon.



Out of the millions that go to Horse Racing it's probably a tiny percentage who would go to take photos, not really worth them worrying about TBH, however on a photography message board, I would imagine nearly all of them who go to Horse Racing would go to take pictures in some capacity.

Whenever we go out for the day, we would usually pick somewhere with my photography in mind, for instance I only started going to non-league football to see how I'd get on at taking photos at games, now I go whenever I get the chance because I enjoy it.
On the other hand I go to Donnington Touring Cars every year purely to take photos, I have no interest in motor sports whatsoever, I started going because I saw other people's photos and wanted to try myself, however a few of my family started tagging along with me a few years ago and now it's become an annual event for around 12 of us.
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Can't imagine going to an event I've no real interest in just to take photos without it being paid work - and can't imagine posting pics online when I've got no interest in the subject
 
davidy233 said:
Can't imagine going to an event I've no real interest in just to take photos without it being paid work - and can't imagine posting pics online when I've got no interest in the subject
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Each to his own.
If you look at it another way, if you were really interested in going to an event, would you want to be taking photos all the way through, or would you want to enjoy it without the camera in the way?
 
Ramalama said:
Each to his own.
If you look at it another way, if you were really interested in going to an event, would you want to be taking photos all the way through, or would you want to enjoy it without the camera in the way?
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If I wasn't getting paid I would be very unlikely to have a camera with me - events (sporting/concerts etc.) are best enjoyed without looking through a camera - and certainly without posting affirmation that you are lucky enough to be there online.
 
davidy233 said:
If I wasn't getting paid I would be very unlikely to have a camera with me - events (sporting/concerts etc.) are best enjoyed without looking through a camera - and certainly without posting affirmation that you are lucky enough to be there online.
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I guess that's the difference between doing photography as your job, and doing it as a hobby. :)
 
davidy233 said:
Can't imagine going to an event I've no real interest in just to take photos without it being paid work - and can't imagine posting pics online when I've got no interest in the subject
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If you don't try other other forms of photography how do think you think you will improve your your technique. It is horses for courses, taking photos at an equestrian event, sports event and ones at a wedding or of the family dog require different techniques. Maybe other photographers like to push themselves and their equipment to develop their skills.
 
KIPAX said:
Nobody is stopping Photogrpahy.. Only the use of it as commercial.. How on earth is that going to drive away racing enthusiasts... I think your being a bit of a drama queen with that statement.. seriously ..
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How are they going to know, on the day, if your taking photos for personal or commercial use?
 
Doesn't The RCA screw enough money from entry fees and products (food/drink) on the venue already?
 
I notice the link given on post #1 takes me to the 'about us' page, and not to any statement I can find... is this just a glitch or have they had a change of heart? I personally couldn't care less, as going to watch horse racing is about as appealing to me as watching paint dry or sitting in a traffic jam! Each to their own though.
 
Mr Badger said:
I notice the link given on post #1 takes me to the 'about us' page, and not to any statement I can find... is this just a glitch or have they had a change of heart? I personally couldn't care less, as going to watch horse racing is about as appealing to me as watching paint dry or sitting in a traffic jam! Each to their own though.
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to be fair its well over two years ago all this so link prob not going to eb there :)
 
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