Suggestions to improve live music photography?

D

dancook

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Name
Dan
Edit My Images
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I feel like I'm stuck creatively.. and I've reached a plateau.

Is there anything I should be doing? Typically I deliver 4-5 shots of solo musicians and 5-10 of groups (by request of the 'client') - making sure I have at least one photo of everyone, I'm not always happy with that token photo of the person at the back that I can't get a good angle on..

Personally, every shot out of the 60 or so delivered should be a work of art that stands out on it's own.. or at least there should be no weak shots.

I have galleries on www.danielcook.com, not sure if it's better to show what I like or the weak stuff - so here's what I like.

1 brit_220617 (44 of 79) by dancook1982, on Flickr

2 brit_220617 (38 of 79) by dancook1982, on Flickr

3 king_110517 (32 of 62) by dancook1982, on Flickr

4 king_110517 (15 of 62) by dancook1982, on Flickr

5 king_110517 (2 of 62) by dancook1982, on Flickr

6 king_200417 (4 of 30) by dancook1982, on Flickr

7 brit_120417 (20 of 33) by dancook1982, on Flickr

8 brit_120417 (7 of 33) by dancook1982, on Flickr

I suppose I haven't shown any frame with the crowd in front shots, there are some and I can try to improve on those also.

My lenses are 28, 50 and 90-280 - should I consider getting a wider lens? but I'm loathed to suggest buying more hardware to make up for my lack of creativity.

thanks
 
Some of these are fabulous, 3 & 8 especially.

I don't really know much about this kind of photography.. they're all doing the 'lost in music' thing but I'd love to see a shot of one of them interacting with either you or the audience. 3 comes closest.

Some of them look a little like they're either backstage or in a rehearsal room. I know you're stuck with what you're given but I wonder if there's a way of showing some more context even if you don't show the crowd?

I think I'm blundering towards saying that these are performers in action but often they look as though they're doing it for their own benefit rather than performing. Maybe try and find a moment when they're really projecting, eyes (and chest) open and all?

Just a thought.. they're still fine pics.
 
juggler said:
Some of these are fabulous, 3 & 8 especially.

I don't really know much about this kind of photography.. they're all doing the 'lost in music' thing but I'd love to see a shot of one of them interacting with either you or the audience. 3 comes closest.

Some of them look a little like they're either backstage or in a rehearsal room. I know you're stuck with what you're given but I wonder if there's a way of showing some more context even if you don't show the crowd?

I think I'm blundering towards saying that these are performers in action but often they look as though they're doing it for their own benefit rather than performing. Maybe try and find a moment when they're really projecting, eyes (and chest) open and all?

Just a thought.. they're still fine pics.
Click to expand...

Thanks Simon, I think you've raised some good points - and maybe a lens wider than 28mm can help with capturing the audience as well as the musician, otherwise I can shoot behind the audience. In one pub they are in a corner of the room, and the other end of a long room with quite a gap before the audience. But I will try to be creative about it :)
 
They're great photos. But I agree with @juggler about the engagement. Maybe practice capturing the musicians looking straight at you. It's tough to time it when they're in the moment but sometimes they oblige.
This is not the most technically accomplished image, but it is still one of my favourites just because I caught it when he spotted the camera.
Strayfromthepath(10)270517 by Ben Gray, on Flickr
I am reading up on as much advice as possible about gig photography because music is a passion of mine and I love being there.
 
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Orangecroc said:
They're great photos. But I agree with @juggler about the engagement. Maybe practice capturing the musicians looking straight at you. It's tough to time it when they're in the moment but sometimes they oblige.
This is not the most technically accomplished image, but it is still one of my favourites just because I caught it when he spotted the camera.
I am reading up on as much advice as possible about gig photography because music is a passion of mine and I love being there.
Click to expand...

This seems like it's going to be tricky to get a photo of every musician looking at me, I agree it's great for engagement - but not sure I can achieve it.

I don't see your image though.

thanks
 
dancook said:
This seems like it's going to be tricky to get a photo of every musician looking at me, I agree it's great for engagement - but not sure I can achieve it.

I don't see your image though.

thanks
Click to expand...
Sorry, got distracted while posting. I've added it now. Getting interaction is a lot about watching where they look while performing and moving into position.
It's not something that will always be possible but something that can be practiced.
 
I make no claim to any expertise whatsoever. But if it helps here are some thoughts as they come to me:

#1. Closed eyes ... no (the singer might like it).
#2. No point, looking at their shoelaces or lost in music.
#3, Fine.
#4. Maybe (just too busy on the left side and distracting me).
#5. Try in colour. She is lost in the dark background.
#6. The out of focus hand looks ... errrmm too much out of focus (not to say dead).
#7. Fine but nothing to write home about.
#8. I don't get it very much (juggler likes it and he made me look twice).

They are all good photos but last time I remember me doing something like that was with a big flash gun and blasting them ;-) So don't expect much creative input from me.

In some ways I like the ones photographed from amongst the audience (but for that sound man who spoils everything). I guess in small places your choices are rather limited as to how creative you can be or whether you take photos as a record of the event [get rid of the sound/lightman next time you are there ... or he can get a dark(er) shirt and turn his light off].
 
Orangecroc said:
Sorry, got distracted while posting. I've added it now. Getting interaction is a lot about watching where they look while performing and moving into position.
It's not something that will always be possible but something that can be practiced.
Click to expand...

thanks, it's tricky to move around in a pub like this - i'm in everyone's way - I try to move between songs, and rarely during them.

So I'm either at a diagonal, behind - or on the floor in front of them. Maybe I can get direct on if I go further back with a telephoto, it's still tight for maneuvering - if I move the back in one pub, everyone has to move their chairs :D
 
dancook said:
This seems like it's going to be tricky to get a photo of every musician looking at me, I agree it's great for engagement - but not sure I can achieve it.
Click to expand...

Looking at you or looking at the audience. Do not despair that quickly ... clicking on digital is cheap. I take it you are not using flash to be blasting them if you take more photos.
 
TLR-330 said:
I make no claim to any expertise whatsoever. But if it helps here are some thoughts as they come to me:

#1. Closed eyes ... no (the singer might like it).
#2. No point, looking at their shoelaces or lost in music.
#3, Fine.
#4. Maybe (just too busy on the left side and distracting me).
#5. Try in colour. She is lost in the dark background.
#6. The out of focus hand looks ... errrmm too much out of focus (not to say dead).
#7. Fine but nothing to write home about.
#8. I don't get it very much (juggler likes it and he made me look twice).

They are all good photos but last time I remember me doing something like that was with a big flash gun and blasting them ;-) So don't expect much creative input from me.

In some ways I like the ones photographed from amongst the audience (but for that sound man who spoils everything). I guess in small places your choices are rather limited as to how creative you can be or whether you take photos as a record of the event [get rid of the sound/lightman next time you are there ... or he can get a dark(er) shirt and turn his light off].
Click to expand...

Well with that critique my picks set a very low bar .. there must be a lot of good shots I'm missing or I just don't get what makes something good, which is why I am frustrated.

The sound man is the man who runs the event, I got him in the shot because he has a relationship with all these musicians. He gives them all a platform to play.
 
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TLR-330 said:
Looking at you or looking at the audience. Do not despair that quickly ... clicking on digital is cheap. I take it you are not using flash to be blasting them if you take more photos.
Click to expand...

No one would appreciate flashes, and I'd appreciate being able to take less photos in the night not more.
 
•


After reading some reactions to your postings, Dan,
I decided to chew on a juicy TB steak and let some
steam out before I attempt to reply. The wine was
great, the steak is at the right place and the steam
is down… now is the right time.

You did a very good and constant work in my book.
No cheap shot. In the last month, my sons were not
available to shoot with me as usual… and they are
solidly good at it. You, Dan, would be the perfect re-
placement as you are thoughtful, sure with you gear
and, best of all, go along with and capture very good
moments making all performers look and feel great.

  1. 9,5/10 just slightly framed too tight — I would
    use the 3:4 ratio for the vertical frames and lea-
    ve more room in front
  2. 9,5/10 Great shot!
  3. well done but not my pick by far
  4. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  5. …
  6. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  7. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  8. 7/10
  9. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  10. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  11. 9,5/10 among the best takes… a tad too low
  12. 9,5/10 among the best takes
A most precious point in your images is that you take
the time to pick up when the performers reach a most
charming expression.

This comment, reply, appreciation is base on some 40
years shooting events… and I would hire you with pride.
 
Kodiak Qc said:
•


After reading some reactions to your postings, Dan,
I decided to chew on a juicy TB steak and let some
steam out before I attempt to reply. The wine was
great, the steak is at the right place and the steam
is down… now is the right time.

You did a very good and constant work in my book.
No cheap shot. In the last month, my sons were not
available to shoot with me as usual… and they are
solidly good at it. You, Dan, would be the perfect re-
placement as you are thoughtful, sure with you gear
and, best of all, go along with and capture very good
moments making all performers look and feel great.

  1. 9,5/10 just slightly framed too tight — I would
    use the 3:4 ratio for the vertical frames and lea-
    ve more room in front
  2. 9,5/10 Great shot!
  3. well done but not my pick by far
  4. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  5. …
  6. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  7. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  8. 7/10
  9. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  10. 9,5/10 among the best takes
  11. 9,5/10 among the best takes… a tad too low
  12. 9,5/10 among the best takes
A most precious point in your images is that you take
the time to pick up when the performers reach a most
charming expression.

This comment, reply, appreciation is base on some 40
years shooting events… and I would hire you with pride.
Click to expand...

Thank you Kodiak, I appreciate your comments/feedback/compliments - they bring a smile to my face, and help me appreciate what I have done so far.

I will continue to strive - but try not to beat myself up over it.. (this time!)
 
dancook said:
No one would appreciate flashes, and I'd appreciate being able to take less photos in the night not more.
Click to expand...

I do not want to put you off (and I seem to be succeeding in doing the opposite). And as I said do not expect "creative" input from me because I lost that many years ago. Some of your photos I find much better than others and that is the bit I am trying to explain, e..g. would 4 be better cropped to a portrait format to leave out the sound/light man (it is how you see it not me). Similarly, would #44of62 be better if the soundman was cropped out? The sound/light man may be important for the event but he is not important for the photos. Perhaps standing(-up) behind him give you a better view?

I would go with what Kodiak says, he has more clue than me anyway :)

PS. Are you using a mirror slapping camera? In which case I understand your reluctance to click too often.
 
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TLR-330 said:
I do not want to put you off (and I seem to be succeeding in doing the opposite). And as I said do not expect "creative" input from me because I lost that many years ago. Some of your photos I find much better than others and that is the bit I am trying to explain, e..g. would 4 be better cropped to a portrait format to leave out the sound/light man (it is how you see it not me). Similarly, would #44of62 be better if the soundman was cropped out? The sound/light man may be important for the event but he is not important for the photos. Perhaps standing(-up) behind him give you a better view?

I would go with what Kodiak says, he has more clue than me anyway :)

PS. Are you using a mirror slapping camera? In which case I understand your reluctance to click too often.
Click to expand...
The reluctance to click more often is probably so he can enjoy the music too. Nothing worse than being stuck behind the VF for the whole gig.
 
TLR-330 said:
I do not want to put you off (and I seem to be succeeding in doing the opposite). And as I said do not expect "creative" input from me because I lost that many years ago. Some of your photos I find much better than others and that is the bit I am trying to explain, e..g. would 4 be better cropped to a portrait format to leave out the sound/light man (it is how you see it not me). Similarly, would #44of62 be better if the soundman was cropped out? The sound/light man may be important for the event but he is not important for the photos. Perhaps standing(-up) behind him give you a better view?

I would go with what Kodiak says, he has more clue than me anyway :)

PS. Are you using a mirror slapping camera? In which case I understand your reluctance to click too often.
Click to expand...

I'm not very good at balance, often 'all or nothing' .. a read through your feedback doesn't suggest I'm doing much right - so it's quite frustrating to feel that way, a bit overwhelming the thought that "everything you know is wrong"

Although I will read through several times until I work out what to take away with it, and how I can apply it to the situation I am in :) so thanks

I'm using a mirrorless camera, and the shutter sound is quiet - silent if I want it. However I feel like I'm maybe taking too many shots as it is, and I'm concerned about taking the time instead to consider shots and the amount of processing at the end of it - which is why I just don't want to increase unnecessarily.
 
dancook said:
I'm using a mirrorless camera, and the shutter sound is quiet - silent if I want it. However I feel like I'm maybe taking too many shots as it is, and I'm concerned about taking the time instead to consider shots and the amount of processing at the end of it - which is why I just don't want to increase unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

No it is not all or nothing. I am probably not good at telling people how wonderful things are as in my working life (nothing to do with photography) I found that people listened to the nice things and completely missed the very diplomatically put criticism. It happened too many times :-( Put it that way, if I though your photos were rubbish I would not have said anything. I liked them hence I am bothered to explain.
Assumptions on my part.
- you go for the music
- you go for the drink
- opportunity to take photos
- i.e. you are not being paid (which makes it all the better as you can please yourself).

Assuming you are not being paid, if the artists are local - or you are likely to bump on them again - give them 1 good photo of them. The same for the guy with the white shirt (he might set a wall somewhere and put clips of events). Being in danger of being flamed for suggesting giving something away (unless you do photography for a living), you might find that your confidence grows to move more freely, to take more photos, etc. You become a "member" of the team, you get your pleasure and you give something back. And yes, that means you might enjoy the music a bit less and even less the drink.

Been there done it and never had a problem in the space but they were different times. 12 clicks and change roll of film (and the cost to me £1 per click back then when I could hardly afford it let alone drink as well), and with a hammer head flash gun creativity goes as far as hope to capture the moment.
 
TLR-330 said:
No it is not all or nothing. I am probably not good at telling people how wonderful things are as in my working life (nothing to do with photography) I found that people listened to the nice things and completely missed the very diplomatically put criticism. It happened too many times :-( Put it that way, if I though your photos were rubbish I would not have said anything. I liked them hence I am bothered to explain.
Assumptions on my part.
- you go for the music
- you go for the drink
- opportunity to take photos
- i.e. you are not being paid (which makes it all the better as you can please yourself).

Assuming you are not being paid, if the artists are local - or you are likely to bump on them again - give them 1 good photo of them. The same for the guy with the white shirt (he might set a wall somewhere and put clips of events). Being in danger of being flamed for suggesting giving something away (unless you do photography for a living), you might find that your confidence grows to move more freely, to take more photos, etc. You become a "member" of the team, you get your pleasure and you give something back. And yes, that means you might enjoy the music a bit less and even less the drink.

Been there done it and never had a problem in the space but they were different times. 12 clicks and change roll of film (and the cost to me £1 per click back then when I could hardly afford it let alone drink as well), and with a hammer head flash gun creativity goes as far as hope to capture the moment.
Click to expand...

Not being paid, but I do it officially for the organiser and for my part as a hobby. I shoot 8:30 to 11:00 - five or so acts, at the request of the organiser I provide 4-5 shots of musicians, more for bands - everyone gets a shot.

He has two nights every week this event happens, and two different pubs, has photographers every night - not just me, there are guys who've been working with him longer.

I started doing this in January, have done it 6-8 times I think. Then got invited to shoot a couple of festivals, and now a couple of musicians want a photo shoot and fashion shoot - so the ball is rolling..
 
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Even better ... you are a "member" of the team ... that is where I was going. Just crop him out or ask him to be less bright. He is a distraction :pint:
 
Dan - I think they're great. You caught some special moments, like the guys in shot 2 drawing together in the flow of the music. I appreciate it's hard to get 'creative' shots in a small environment like a pub with awkward lighting and tiny stage. I stopped taking pictures of my band, partly because I needed to play but mostly because I ran out of inspiration and novelty. I wonder if going in wide & close to include more audience would help, especially with a lens that provided some distortion instead of flattening perspective. You might also try longer exposures to include movement in the performers to give a sense of the live aspect of the performance.
 
Just after my last post, I went out to shoot live music - tried to time all my shots with eyes open - though some actually never opened their eyes.. and I got a lot more shots from around the back of the room - try to create compositions with people and reflective surfaces..

Got more difficult as the night went on though, it got busier and I got blocked in or out of sections of the pub, or even by band equipment,.


I'll see how it went in the morning... :) cheer guys, goodnight
 
Just one thought. It seems to me you may be beating yourself unnecessarily. It sounds as if the venues you go to are limited (two?). There are so many different angles and new compositions that work that you will find in two small venues. You get frustrated because you cannot come up with the "new" creative shot. Try for the new shot but make sure you take the standard "stock" successful photos of each artist in each venue. They might start becoming boring shots to you, but they will be very nice to your subjects which then open up other opportunities.
 
Well I took 2/3rds the photos I normally have been, and I'm delivery about half as many as I have been..

1b brit_190717 (2 of 28) by dancook1982, on Flickr

2b brit_190717 (3 of 28) by dancook1982, on Flickr

3b brit_190717 (4 of 28) by dancook1982, on Flickr

4b brit_190717 (8 of 28) by dancook1982, on Flickr

5b brit_190717 (10 of 28) by dancook1982, on Flickr

6b brit_190717 (13 of 28) by dancook1982, on Flickr

7b brit_190717 (18 of 28) by dancook1982, on Flickr

8b brit_190717 (23 of 28) by dancook1982, on Flickr
 
dancook said:
Uploaded the gallery from last night to my website
https://danielcook.com/2017/07/20/the-britannia-gt-live-sessions/
Click to expand...

BTW. The stuff in your site above is very well tied together (one event). Very nice indeed 'cause when I was seeing some B&W and some colour photos here on talkphotography I was wandering "why?". Seeing the two kinds together on the site makes much more sense.

And to make your head get stuck on the door frame, the glass of bubbly is excellent.
 
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TLR-330 said:
BTW. The stuff in your site above is very well tied together (one event). Very nice indeed 'cause when I was seeing some B&W and some colour photos here on talkphotography I was wandering "why?". Seeing the two kinds together on the site makes much more sense.

And to make your head get stuck on the door frame, the glass of bubbly is excellent.
Click to expand...

Thanks!


juggler said:
That's a real development. How do you feel about the change in style?
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm appreciating the importance of contextual shots, and the greater interest they add - previously my balance was too much on portraits.

I feel i did a better job of this in the early evening whilst it was quieter, later in the evening it became harder to move around.

I also feel my feeling of having an evolved plan on what to look for when taking photos has made me more relaxed. Previously I'd shoot a lot more, probably because I'm wondering which shots would work best and would have to decide after.
 
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