Tearing up the sea bed ...

MatBin said:
So you are saying it's acceptable to create the new technology in an unfriendly way which we can ignore for the time being because it will get better? (hopefully - my word not yours)
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No. That's not what I'm saying.

Whilst it's totally not okay to create new technology in an unfriendly way. Hence it is not okay to mine for cobalt in this way. But reasonable, yet short, time has to be allowed for development. The root cause of this is use of cobalt in EV batteries, so if we can reduce or remove cobalt from batteries, the problem goes away. Or work with the suppliers to mine ethically.

It's like Apple iPhone production. Initially there were news of Chinese factory worker suicides and all sort of problems. That was dawn of smart phone era. Apple worked through the problems with their supplier and now is considered established player in the phone domain.
Now, we are at dawn of mass EV adoption. Supply chains are not well established and there are many problems there. But if we kill off EV based on this single negative, ignoring all other benefits EV adoption brings, we'll never get anywhere.

MatBin said:
Tesla use the materials mined in the creation of their vehicle, as they wouldn't be much use without a battery pack
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Tesla, just like many battery manufacturers are working to reduce and remove cobalt from their battery packs.

End of the day, does it matter who actually uses the mined resource?
I'd rather a single company that can be held accountable uses the mined resources.
Because otherwise, if there is a petrol station that sells ethically mined petrol in a stable area of the world that was mined in an environmentally friendly manner and refined using renewable energy, transported using ultra-low-emission vehicle, but costs double. I highly doubt there will be people queuing up for this.
 
Baz777 said:
Only one way to save the planet, eradicate the human race.

As for Greta Thunberg, when she sailed over to America her ‘entourage’ flew over.
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Who's in her entourage?
 
Rapscallion said:
Who's in her entourage?
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Not so much her entourage but the crew who sailed the boat back to Europe, flew to NY to meet the boat, and the bloke who slippered the boat on her voyage, let it slip he was flying back to Europe.
 
nilagin said:
The planet is saved and you can still own and drive ICE vehicles. ;)
https://insideevs.com/news/382196/raptor-charge-model-3-towing/
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That's totally okay because it can be marketed as self-charging. ;)

Doesn't matter where the energy comes form, as long as the car has electric elements, we can call it saving the planet - All those marketing self-charging hybrids

nilagin said:
Not so much her entourage but the crew who sailed the boat back to Europe, flew to NY to meet the boat, and the bloke who slippered the boat on her voyage, let it slip he was flying back to Europe.
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Forget the idea of gesture, and symbolism.
Forget how everything in modern civilisation is all interconnected, it's impossible to accomplish anything logistically without using modern means.
Forget it is the industry and government that need to lead the change, not a teenager.

But based on this thread, I think we need to look at how the boat was made, whether it was made environmentally friendly using renewable power. Whether all its materials can be recycled. Every single detail must be called into question so that anyone challenging the status quo must not get away.
 
nilagin said:
Not so much her entourage but the crew who sailed the boat back to Europe, flew to NY to meet the boat, and the bloke who slippered the boat on her voyage, let it slip he was flying back to Europe.
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So nobody that Greta Thunberg had any control over?
 
nilagin said:
Why would a 16yr old have control over anyone?
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Certainly not one with Asperger's syndrome, I'd say it was the other way around.
 
Box Brownie said:
If memory serves me well, I recall reading about Cobalt and other metal ore nodules being discovered on the deep ocean seafloor back on the 1980's but it was nothing more than a scientific curiosity at that time primarily because they were not viewed as commercially viable. If they are now seen as a "worthwhile" mining(?) potential......that sadly comes as no surprise and which countries mining operation is now talking about it???
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Actually it was the 1970's and it was a cover story dreamt up by the US intelligence service to hide the fact that they were trying to recover a Russian nuclear submarine. The vessel was the Hughes Glomar Explorer which was owned by Howard Hughes. Wikipedia has a very good article on it,
 
Earley Man said:
Actually it was the 1970's and it was a cover story dreamt up by the US intelligence service to hide the fact that they were trying to recover a Russian nuclear submarine. The vessel was the Hughes Glomar Explorer which was owned by Howard Hughes. Wikipedia has a very good article on it,
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An interesting time in Cold War history as well as exploration.

Though what I have a recall of was a program that included underwater film taken by either a deep sea submersible or an ROV showing a 'field' of nodule objects across a vast area of seafloor.
 
wuyanxu said:
It's like Apple iPhone production. Initially there were news of Chinese factory worker suicides and all sort of problems. That was dawn of smart phone era. Apple worked through the problems with their supplier and now is considered established player in the phone domain.
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The supplier put nets up to catch the jumpers.
 
Cobra said:
Certainly not one with Asperger's syndrome, I'd say it was the other way around.
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You do know that people (even 16 year old) with Aspergers are capable of thinking for themselves?
 
Marc said:
You do know that people (even 16 year old) with Aspergers are capable of thinking for themselves?
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That has nothing to do with having control over someone.
 
Marc said:
You do know that people (even 16 year old) with Aspergers are capable of thinking for themselves?
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Absolutely, but where would she be without her entourage which was the initial comment made.
Booking airplane / boat / train passage, tickets.
being shoved to the fore by her environmentalist and author mother.

Greta's family’s life is recounted in the book Scenes From The Heart, published in August 2018, which was largely written by her mother.
Both parents are committed to the environmental cause and the book also talks about the environmental crisis and sustainability.
 
Cobra said:
Absolutely, but where would she be without her entourage which was the initial comment made.
Booking airplane / boat / train passage, tickets.
being shoved to the fore by her environmentalist and author mother.

Greta's family’s life is recounted in the book Scenes From The Heart, published in August 2018, which was largely written by her mother.
Both parents are committed to the environmental cause and the book also talks about the environmental crisis and sustainability.
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I thought it was established above that the people discussed were t her entourage but none of what you say means she is being controlled and her Aspergers certainly isn't a factor.
 
nilagin said:
He will have some control over her.
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As a parent, he will undoubtedly have some influence but that's very different to "control".

But the inference was that her Aspergers meant that it was more likely that others were controlling her which is way off the mark. It's sad that people still associate mental health issues with weak mindedness.
 
Marc said:
As a parent, he will undoubtedly have some influence but that's very different to "control".

But the inference was that her Aspergers meant that it was more likely that others were controlling her which is way off the mark. It's sad that people still associate mental health issues with weak mindedness.
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Actually the original inference was that she had control over others (her entourage).
Someone can still be strong minded (willed) after or whilst still being controlled especially at the age of 16 whether they have Aspergers or not.
 
nilagin said:
Actually the original inference was that she had control over others (her entourage).
Someone can still be strong minded (willed) after or whilst still being controlled especially at the age of 16 whether they have Aspergers or not.
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I was replying to Chris who inferred that, due to her Aspergers, it was more likely that she was being controlled by others after someone said that she wasn't controlling others who had been described as her entourage.
 
Marc said:
I was replying to Chris who inferred that, due to her Aspergers, it was more likely that she was being controlled by others after someone said that she wasn't controlling others who had been described as her entourage.
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That was my comment that Chris replied to. The aspergers comment was actually directed at the 16yr old controlling others. Not her being controlled because she has aspergers.
 
nilagin said:
the 16yr old controlling others.
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Things didn't end well for the last 16 year old girl who presented herself as a saviour. Of course Joan was eventually beatified but I'm not sure that makes up for being dead at 19. :naughty:
 
nilagin said:
That was my comment that Chris replied to. The aspergers comment was actually directed at the 16yr old controlling others. Not her being controlled because she has aspergers.
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"Certainly not one with Asperger's syndrome, I'd say it was the other way around."

Maybe should have been clearer then. If that was his point, there was no need to mention Aspergers at all.
 
Marc said:
Maybe should have been clearer then. If that was his point, there was no need to mention Aspergers at all.
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Why shouldn't it be mentioned? The comment had context. You however are taking the comment out of context.
The way it reads is that
She is a 16yr old, she will be vulnerable and will be under the control (protection) of others. As a 16yr old with absorbers she will be more vulnerable than other 16yr old girls and as a result she will be under greater control (protection).

We have 2 people with Aspergers at work both early 20's. The lad, other than rattling off facts and figures usually about car performance figures etc. He doesn't seem that bright, he had been known to do some strange things as an apprentice and as a result he is just given simpler tasks to do and needs someone to keep an eye on him to ensure he doesn't do something stupid or break something.
The other is a girl, without a doubt very bright and capable. But she is very unsure and far less assertive. She doesn't need checking on so much all though she isn't allowed to keep her door shut at work, just so people can see her as they walk past and know she is ok. Basically both of them are being controlled, I would say there is a greater chance of her confidence growing as she gets older and the attention (control) she requires will lessen. The lad however, I can't see him ever not needing to be controlled.
 
nilagin said:
Why shouldn't it be mentioned? The comment had context. You however are taking the comment out of context.
The way it reads is that
She is a 16yr old, she will be vulnerable and will be under the control (protection) of others. As a 16yr old with absorbers she will be more vulnerable than other 16yr old girls and as a result she will be under greater control (protection).

We have 2 people with Aspergers at work both early 20's. The lad, other than rattling off facts and figures usually about car performance figures etc. He doesn't seem that bright, he had been known to do some strange things as an apprentice and as a result he is just given simpler tasks to do and needs someone to keep an eye on him to ensure he doesn't do something stupid or break something.
The other is a girl, without a doubt very bright and capable. But she is very unsure and far less assertive. She doesn't need checking on so much all though she isn't allowed to keep her door shut at work, just so people can see her as they walk past and know she is ok. Basically both of them are being controlled, I would say there is a greater chance of her confidence growing as she gets older and the attention (control) she requires will lessen. The lad however, I can't see him ever not needing to be controlled.
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I think we both know what he meant by "controlled" and it wasn't being "protected".
 
Marc said:
I think we both know what he meant by "controlled" and it wasn't being "protected".
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I suspect you are confusing the word control as used in this context with manipulation, which of course is totally different.
 
Cobra said:
I suspect you are confusing the word control as used in this context with manipulation, which of course is totally different.
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Not confused at all, it's quite clear from your and other's prior posts that you believe that she is being manipulated. And in no context does Controlled mean protected.
 
Marc said:
that you believe that she is being manipulated.
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I never used that word, but I was pretty convinced that's how you interpreted control in the context it was used.
 
Cobra said:
I never used that word, but I was pretty convinced that's how you interpreted control in the context it was used.
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I never said that you used the word but it's obvious to me that it was what you meant by controlled. Are you saying that you meant she was being protected?
 
Marc said:
I never said that you used the word but it's obvious to me that it was what you meant by controlled. Are you saying that you meant she was being protected?
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Call it what you like :woot:
 
Any road up...

If we're discussing meanings of words, context and connotations, "tearing up" is an interesting choice of words.
 
simon ess said:
Any road up...

If we're discussing meanings of words, context and connotations, "tearing up" is an interesting choice of words.
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The effect of the mining machine is very similar to (bottom) trawling.................the trawl rips through the bottom sediment and all non fish life bottom dwelling species are either killed or so disrupted that they disappear from the area.

There good case examples of areas adjacent to each other where the non trawled area is thriving and the trawled zone is so badly damaged that years later there are still concerns as to the progress of its 'natural' return to health.

The mining may occur at deeper depths but we have too little understanding of what lives down there and how important it is to the overall health of all oceanic species!
 
Box Brownie said:
The mining may occur at deeper depths but we have too little understanding of what lives down there and how important it is to the overall health of all oceanic species!
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As I mentioned in my opening post, anyone that has ever scuba dived, will know the myriad of creatures that live either on the sea bed or in the sea bed.
Many obviously go unseen, but the traces are there ( as Loyd Grossman would say, who's house is this? all the clues are there ;) )
And yes I still stand by the title of the thread.
 
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