Tearing up the sea bed ...

Cobra

Cobra

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.. to mine Cobalt?
What on Earth [sic] would Greta say to that?

Anyone that has ever SCUBA'd will appreciate the myriad of creatures that live in and on it :(
 
Cobra said:
.. to mine Cobalt?
What on Earth [sic] would Greta say to that?

Anyone that has ever SCUBA'd will appreciate the myriad of creatures that live in and on it :(
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If memory serves me well, I recall reading about Cobalt and other metal ore nodules being discovered on the deep ocean seafloor back on the 1980's but it was nothing more than a scientific curiosity at that time primarily because they were not viewed as commercially viable. If they are now seen as a "worthwhile" mining(?) potential......that sadly comes as no surprise and which countries mining operation is now talking about it???
 
Out of sight out of mind, and what is Cobalt used for?
 
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Cobra said:
All together now ....
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Oh yeah environmentally friendly Li-Ion batteries used in even more environmentally friendly Electric Vehicles ..........................
(amongst other things of course, so as to give a balanced view)
 
MatBin said:
friendly Electric Vehicles ..........................
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What with that and "Fracking" how many ways can we destroy the planet to "save it"?
:(
 
Give us a while I am sure we can come up with more ideas. As long as we can export the damage it isn't happening.
Bit like a child covering their eyes and saying no-one can see me.
 
Cobalt is used in a lot of things we take for granted. Eventually alternatives will be found but I don't think the majority of the population will vote to ban undersea mining if it means no cameras, phones, TVs or cars
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
if it means no cameras, phones, TVs or cars
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This is all being heralded as the next great move in the production of EV batteries, so we aren't digging up half of Africa or using cheap / child labour to do so.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Cobalt is used in a lot of things we take for granted. Eventually alternatives will be found but I don't think the majority of the population will vote to ban undersea mining if it means no cameras, phones, TVs or cars
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This is of course the problem.

we want our toys and that means ripping up the earth because there is a lot of us!

population control is the elephant in the room and a zillion times more effective than climate control. Where’s Thanos when you need him...:
 
Brazo said:
This is of course the problem.

we want our toys and that means ripping up the earth because there is a lot of us!

population control is the elephant in the room and a zillion times more effective than climate control. Where’s Thanos when you need him...:
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Oh a kindred spirit at last :)
 
Population isn't necessarily the problem, it's more where and how we live IMO and also that of others.
 
a bit of bubonic plague mixed with h.i.v spread by the common cold .. would help things along
 
woof woof said:
Population isn't necessarily the problem, it's more where and how we live IMO and also that of others.
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Yes that’s important too but as the population increases even if we all live ultra green there will come a point where even all of living green is causing climate damage.

unfortunately we aren’t living green and certain developing countries like a Russia/India are doing their best to destroy the planet but truth be told they are only doing what the developed countries have already done and are now regretting.
 
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wuyanxu said:
*sigh*

There can be other ways to make batteries that doesn't require cobalt
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/11-lithium-ion-battery-makers-that-dont-need-cobalt

It's like supermarket plastic bags. With time and effort, we can use something else. It's not mandatory.

But it was free, so people used what was easiest to them.
In this case, there is a momentary spike in demand, people will find ways to make a quick buck.
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Odd that you use that as an excuse against ICE vehicle manufacturers,
But it's ok for EV manufacturers to try to make a quick buck. Only none of them have succeeded yet in making a buck. It is obviously ok to screw the planet, just so long as you don't make a profit doing it. ;)
 
nilagin said:
Odd that you use that as an excuse against ICE vehicle manufacturers,
But it's ok for EV manufacturers to try to make a quick buck. Only none of them have succeeded yet in making a buck. It is obviously ok to screw the planet, just so long as you don't make a profit doing it. ;)
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What excuse? Comment about making a quick buck?
Which electric car company are mining for material to make a quick buck?

It's the mining company that are causing the disruption and destroying environment. Just like when mining for oil.

Another jab at EV companies. It'll be interesting to see how well Ford does in a few years time, whether they will still be around by 2040! considering their slow pace of catching up. ;)
 
wuyanxu said:
What excuse? Comment about making a quick buck?
Which electric car company are mining for material to make a quick buck?

It's the mining company that are causing the disruption and destroying environment. Just like when mining for oil.

Another jab at EV companies. It'll be interesting to see how well Ford does in a few years time, whether they will still be around by 2040! considering their slow pace of catching up. ;)
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You were the one that said there are other means of making Lithium batteries without resorting to cobalt. If EV manufacturers are still using cobalt, they are obviously still taking advantage of the fast buck.
Not a jibe against EV manufacturers at all, just pointing out your typical blinkered view on EV, so long as the emissions etc aren't on your doorstep, they don't matter.
You only think Ford are playing catch up because you don't have a clue with what they are doing.
Idris Elba sums it up nicely.
https://videosat.ford.com/#/videos/af150ad6-7bfb-4e03-b6b3-71f272bce425
 
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We need to get ER involved. They could all swim out and lay in front of the machine and stop it tearing up the sea bed.

One thing that worries me, and I've said before, is that we have to be sure that moving to greener stuff is really greener and not just something that initially and superficially looks greener.

I remember the early days of RoHS and that no one seemed to care that as we took some stuff out we were putting even more environmentally damaging stuff in... allegedly... in some cases. My fear is that the move to electric could have hidden consequences and that with hindsight we'll wonder if we've done the right thing. I just hope we've got this right but I suspect we're swapping one set of problems for another.
 
j crossley said:
Apparently saving the Human Race is far more important then saving the planet.
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What an astounding statement.

We as a species probably have an end date but you do know that the planet definitely has one? Right? We as a species might survive and evolve by going out to the stars but no matter what we do planet Earth is doomed unless we find a way of controlling what the sun does or a way of moving the earth to a new neighbourhood and us lot zooming off to the stars seems more likely than that. Maybe.

I'm not saying we should wreck the planet but another way to look at it is that the earth is a big juicy pie and if we don't eat it it's only going to go off and end up in the bin.

Your statement only makes sense if you believe that the earth is a living sentient being that we should sacrifice ourselves to save. I know there are people who believe that, maybe you're one.
 
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nilagin said:
You were the one that said there are other means of making Lithium batteries without resorting to cobalt. If EV manufacturers are still using cobalt, they are obviously still taking advantage of the fast buck.
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If you've read articles, you'll note current mix of other battery chemistry are less ideal than NMC. But a large number of battery companies are slowly making the transition.

It's like the plastic bag comment I said earlier. NMC is only currently the best chemistry for EV. It takes time and engineering effort to switch to something else.

Unlike fossil fuel car company, EV companies are actively investing in battery technology. Only ones taking advantage of cobalt shortage are the mining companies, both on land with questionable practices and now under the sea. Although the mining practices sound very familiar to early days of mining for crude oil......
 
wuyanxu said:
It's the mining company that are causing the disruption and destroying environment. Just like when mining for oil.

Another jab at EV companies. It'll be interesting to see how well Ford does in a few years time, whether they will still be around by 2040! considering their slow pace of catching up. ;)
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Not really comparing apples with apples here. Ford et al don't mine or refine Oil, but Tesla make their own batteries and all the "supporters" claim EV to be environmentally friendly, no one who drives an ICE would claim they are environmentally friendly, maybe less unfriendly than before recent legislation but not "friendly" as such.

So are we going to turn this thread into yet another EV vs ICE (particularly Ford) battle?
 
woof woof said:
What an astounding statement.

We as a species probably have an end date but you do know that the planet definitely has one? Right? We as a species might survive and evolve by going out to the stars but no matter what we do planet Earth is doomed unless we find a way of controlling what the sun does or a way of moving the earth to a new neighbourhood and us lot zooming off to the stars seems more likely than that. Maybe.

I'm not saying we should wreck the planet but another way to look at it is that the earth is a big juicy pie and if we don't eat it it's only going to go off and end up in the bin.

Your statement only makes sense if you believe that the earth is a living sentient being that we should sacrifice ourselves to save. I know there are people who believe that, maybe you're one.
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You are rather ignoring the fact we share this planet with other creatures, are you saying we can eat the pie as quick as we like and sod the rest or perhaps even sod our offspring?
 
wuyanxu said:
Unlike fossil fuel car company, EV companies are actively investing in battery technology.
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"Fossil fuel" car companies are also actively investing in battery technology.
 
j crossley said:
The vast majority of the worlds problems are caused by MAN. Get rid of man problems solved.
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After you into the suicide cabinet... :naughty:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
After you into the suicide cabinet... :naughty:
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I doubt I'm that far off exiting the planet anyway, ok, hopefully a few years left yet, but definitely less than I have had.
 
MatBin said:
You are rather ignoring the fact we share this planet with other creatures, are you saying we can eat the pie as quick as we like and sod the rest or perhaps even sod our offspring?
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Even as I typed I just knew someone would say something like this. Are you proud of yourself?

No I'm not saying these things and you'll get no further explanation from me as your post is just stupid and insulting.
 
woof woof said:
Even as I typed I just knew someone would say something like this. Are you proud of yourself?

No I'm not saying these things and you'll get no further explanation from me as your post is just stupid and insulting.
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I suppose that's one way of ending a discussion, taking your ball home?
 
MatBin said:
Not really comparing apples with apples here. Ford et al don't mine or refine Oil, but Tesla make their own batteries and all the "supporters" claim EV to be environmentally friendly, no one who drives an ICE would claim they are environmentally friendly, maybe less unfriendly than before recent legislation but not "friendly" as such.

So are we going to turn this thread into yet another EV vs ICE (particularly Ford) battle?
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Neither does Tesla mine the materials for batteries. The similarity is where both are enabler. They create the demand for mining industry to mine cobalt/oil. Mining is always a very dirty business, both environmentally and ethically.

Difference is one mining industry is very well established today and has moral high ground, today. Whereas the newcomer is over stretched to meet spike in demand. Whenever this happens, it's normal to see questionable practices, followed by things improve as time goes on.

But the established players, especially those who've made multi-billions years ago in the oil and car industry, will do their best to keep the status quo, do their best to drum up the next disastrous story for the newcomer disrupters. When battery manufacturers move away from cobalt, you can be sure there are other stories to plant fear, uncertainty and doubt.

In this case, those cobalt miners are doing them a favour.




The half TV series / half documentary Mars asked a very good question in the last season. when we go to another planet, can and should we mine like we did on Earth? Who owns the materials there?
 
wuyanxu said:
Neither does Tesla mine the materials for batteries. The similarity is where both are enabler. They create the demand for mining industry to mine cobalt/oil. Mining is always a very dirty business, both environmentally and ethically.

Difference is one mining industry is very well established today and has moral high ground, today. Whereas the newcomer is over stretched to meet spike in demand. Whenever this happens, it's normal to see questionable practices, followed by things improve as time goes on.

But the established players, especially those who've made multi-billions years ago in the oil and car industry, will do their best to keep the status quo, do their best to drum up the next disastrous story for the newcomer disrupters. When battery manufacturers move away from cobalt, you can be sure there are other stories to plant fear, uncertainty and doubt.

In this case, those cobalt miners are doing them a favour.




The half TV series / half documentary Mars asked a very good question in the last season. when we go to another planet, can and should we mine like we did on Earth? Who owns the materials there?
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So you are saying it's acceptable to create the new technology in an unfriendly way which we can ignore for the time being because it will get better? (hopefully - my word not yours)
Tesla use the materials mined in the creation of their vehicle, as they wouldn't be much use without a battery pack, not for something the end user consumes, I will accept that ICE manufacturers use the Oil etc in the production of their vehicle, probably the same amount as Tesla use in the production of their vehicle. Unless someone is using Green Energy in their vehicle production but AFAIK no-one has investigated that yet.
 
wuyanxu said:
when we go to another planet, can and should we mine like we did on Earth?
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I saw a bumper sticker, many years ago. Obviously it was a joke comment, however it rings very true these days ..

"Earth First" We'll f*** the rest of the planets up in due course.
 
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