Testing new lens sutton park

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At first glance, the lens looks good but all the shots are
not sharp and that is, I think, because you would need to
fine tune your AF settings and take more time to get used
to it… keep posting so we can see the progress. :cool:
 
Any help with the setting its a canon 1dx mark ii most of the shots were 1/1000 F5.6 AND AUTO ISO
af AF point expansion (eight surrounding points)
 
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I know nothing of Canon but what I understand from the given
information — if it were my gear — I would choose the single
point for critical focus + AF continuous… and test again. :)
 
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Nice set for first time out with the lens, difficult to say but looking on flickr at the ground under this gull you AF fine tune looks pretty close, as for sharpness some are a bit out but some are very close if not spot on, exposure adjustment to help with detail in the white may be something to try.

3766gull.jpg
 
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Maybe even shooting a little faster? I normally go for 1/1250 and above for birds in flight and that can help with sharpness. I also aim for f8 which I've found to help increase your keep rate I do still get rid of a lot of photos that don't make the grade. You've done really well with a new lens - the one that Mike has adjusted for you is my favourite.
 
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Not a lot wrong with these for first time out (y)

Technical side, settings look good, 1/1600 th on the BHG's should be fine, its like any moving object though, faster the ss the higher probability of a sharper shot, rest is down to practise (y)

Kodiak Qc said:
At first glance, the lens looks good but all the shots are
not sharp and that is, I think, because you would need to
fine tune your AF settings
Click to expand...

From the shots above, this is absolutely impossible to tell, very misleading advice!!

Looking at the four BHG's focus looks to have missed the head and is in different areas of the shot, so its either down to the group focus setting or user error :)

Before you go down the road of AF fine tuning, you need to do some accurate, controlled test shots, on a static object with high contrasting bg, but don't worry about that for now ;)

I'm not a canon user but my advice is this, set the AF tracking to single centre point, group is good in the right situations, larger bird, very contrasting bg.

Set the focus point to show in play back mode, always try focus on the head, that way you can tell at a glace after each shot, whether you hit focus or not.

Don't expect a high hit rate, with BHG's if you can hit 1 in 4 be happy. And don't forget, light conditions and contrasting bg's play a big part in hit rate.

Practise all you can, keep the ss up, even if it means a higher ISO, check the focus point in play back, this is a must as it'll tell you when you miss focus, practise some more ;);) have fun and put some more shots up (y)
 
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Kodiak Qc said:
to fine tune your AF settings
Click to expand...
@activeuk
Mark,

to "fine tune your AF settings", as I suggested, has nothing to
do with AF Fine Tuning a combo.

Both can be read on a set of pictures but, yes, not only on one
without further informations.

This may end up to be a very confusing exercise, to get anywhere
I would suggest you to…
  • shoot static object… like a toy bird from a distance
  • use a tripod
  • single AF point
A sequence will reveal…
  1. the accuracy of the AF system
  2. the type of error
  3. its responsiveness
  4. eventually, your focusing mistakes.
 
Hi Mark

These look OK but I would not be delighted if I were you. It is a bit tricky to resolve feather detail in these images. That might be acceptable if these are heavy crops. Also, using iso 2000 for test shots is probably not the best idea since it introduces noise and reduces detail. What I would do is put your body-lens combo on a tripod and shoot at an angle at a ruler, or similar, and check whether or not micro adjustment is necessary. For whatever reason these images do not look right to me given the pro body and well-regarded 400 prime used.
 
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I would suggest that @activeuk shots are very acceptable though perhaps a little soft. They are far better than my aged and tremulous hands will ever again allow me to manage.
I am sure the problem is a mix of both shake and focus But nothing that will not improve with practice.


I would suggest the problem is about using long focus lenses and not so much about shooting Birds Per say.


Any moving distant subject creates many potential problems.
Camera shake
Point of focus
Follow focus. (Whether automatic or manual)
Timing
And maintaining framing while all this is going on.

On the purely technical side it is well known that cameras and lenses have various degrees of difficulty of "repeatedly" hitting a point of focus, depending to some extent on whether the the lens is focussing out or focussing in. With any continuous or predictive system this can be even more problematic.
I remember, a while ago, Max Lyons the well known Mega panographer writing a paper that complained bitterly about the consistency of Canon focussing, and his tussle with Canon over the problem. And the degree of inaccuracy that still fell within their manufacturing standards. Their stated accuracy target was associated with depth of field.

To a large extent we can all accommodate remarkably large errors in our systems, if Firstly... we know about them, and Secondly give sufficient practice and to learning how to make the best of them.

Focusing problems are fundamental to the DSLR's use of a separate Phase detection device. However Phase detection can be astonishingly quick, while Contras detection is astonishingly accurate. Combing both on Mirrorless cameras, like Fuji and Sony have done, directly on to their image sensors, is now approaching the speeds of the best DSLR systems. and may be able to overcome their remaining difficulties in the not too distant future. Till then ultimate Focus will remain something of a black art with long tele lenses.

I would suggest that @activeuk shots are very acceptable though perhaps a little soft. They are far better than my aged and tremulous hands will ever again allow me to manage.
I think the problem is a mix of both shake and focus But nothing that will not improve with practice.
 
Mark,there is a 1Dxii owners thread here somewhere, I think you might do well to speak to some of those good folks whom are using this camera . Tis a complicated beast and there are guys here whom know it intimately. Mark I'm too much of a novice to help,but really feel deeply that there is a need to get one's head around this camera,i'v seen images at rediculous isos that are astounding. If exposed ettr and processed with the right tools and ability. If this beast was mine i'd be utterly choosing SS and F then not worrying too much about else (for most situations), frankly the iso performance of this camera would be my personal reason to buy if I could afford ,which sadly i can't,

Mate this is a post from a novice I ain't the guys above don't have their knowledge , for me a call to a guy whom makes astounding images with a 1dxii would be worth it. Mark take this with a pinch of salt,your lens is proven unless one has been rediculously unlucky and got a bad copy which you haven't, it's above in your images, so logically tis the set up of the camera (disregarding user error of course) . Mate we can all be better each new tool has a learning curve,and sure a new lens will require that,but this one is a simple do the job work horse.

My only other question might be how compatable are the xii and the 400 5.6 (look they are gonna work it's given but....) ....one of the newest canon bodies set against one of canon's older lenses. Can one be getting the best out of 400mm here ???????

Interesting thread Mark all the luck in the world with this gear can't wait to see what you post when you have got your head wrapped around all this

stu
 
mikew said:
Nice set for first time out with the lens, difficult to say but looking on flickr at the ground under this gull you AF fine tune looks pretty close, as for sharpness some are a bit out but some are very close if not spot on, exposure adjustment to help with detail in the white may be something to try.

View attachment 112572
Click to expand...

I didnt do any adjustments i just put it in to show which one i was talking about
 
Birds in flight I use a1 servo f8 and then try and get the speed up to 1/2000 this cuts out my shake and camera shake. If I can't then maybe it's to dark for
 
Mark,

You're going to get plenty of conflicting advice on situations like this. There gear you have is top notch - the camera body especially and once you get it set up properly and practice then you should be fine.

For shots like these - on my 1dx, which has similar focussing modes to your mk2 body - I'd be looking at using a single AF point with the 4 surrounding AF assist points.

Setting up the AF, ret going into the AF settings, and setting the 'tracking sensitivity' to minus 2. Leave the Accel/Decel tracking at zero, then the AF auto switching (the least important part for now) at plus 1. This will give you chance to momentarily lose your AF point on your subject (and you often will on BIF), and as long as you get it back quickly you stand a good chance of getting an in focus shot.

Even a fairly slow moving predictable bird such as gulls move a lot quicker than you think, especially at close distances, so you need to really work on getting and keeping the focus point on the eye or the head. It looks like here, a couple of times the focus is behind the head. Most of the time this is user error and rectified with plenty of practice, but if you're regularly keeping the AF point in the right place, and still its focussing behind constantly, only then would I start to look into AF micro-adjust.

The camera is awesome at higher ISOs, on my mk1 I don't even start thinking about noise until I hit ISO 3200 so unless you're cropping massively or underexposing heavily, get the shutter speed and the ISO up to get the sharpest shot possible. Even with shots like these, I'd be getting my shutter speed up to at least 1/2000th, and generally shooting wide open, unless your lens is noticeably sharper stopped down - and your 400mm is generally very good wide open.

Learn to expose to the right, shoot in RAW, then learn a little PP - you don't have to be an expert, just learning the basics can make a big difference.

Try those settings for starters, have another go, post up the results and with a little practice you should be on the right track.

Mike
 
Great park! Not far from me either, reminds me to go shoot there again sometime as it’s been a while. Some great shots on your Flickr!
 
pooley said:
Mark,

You're going to get plenty of conflicting advice on situations like this. There gear you have is top notch - the camera body especially and once you get it set up properly and practice then you should be fine.

For shots like these - on my 1dx, which has similar focussing modes to your mk2 body - I'd be looking at using a single AF point with the 4 surrounding AF assist points.

Setting up the AF, ret going into the AF settings, and setting the 'tracking sensitivity' to minus 2. Leave the Accel/Decel tracking at zero, then the AF auto switching (the least important part for now) at plus 1. This will give you chance to momentarily lose your AF point on your subject (and you often will on BIF), and as long as you get it back quickly you stand a good chance of getting an in focus shot.

Even a fairly slow moving predictable bird such as gulls move a lot quicker than you think, especially at close distances, so you need to really work on getting and keeping the focus point on the eye or the head. It looks like here, a couple of times the focus is behind the head. Most of the time this is user error and rectified with plenty of practice, but if you're regularly keeping the AF point in the right place, and still its focussing behind constantly, only then would I start to look into AF micro-adjust.

The camera is awesome at higher ISOs, on my mk1 I don't even start thinking about noise until I hit ISO 3200 so unless you're cropping massively or underexposing heavily, get the shutter speed and the ISO up to get the sharpest shot possible. Even with shots like these, I'd be getting my shutter speed up to at least 1/2000th, and generally shooting wide open, unless your lens is noticeably sharper stopped down - and your 400mm is generally very good wide open.

Learn to expose to the right, shoot in RAW, then learn a little PP - you don't have to be an expert, just learning the basics can make a big difference.

Try those settings for starters, have another go, post up the results and with a little practice you should be on the right track.

Mike
Click to expand...

Very useful post, I will try the tracking settings on my 7DII.

Do you often ETTR for BIF?
 
Archie747 said:
Very useful post, I will try the tracking settings on my 7DII.

Do you often ETTR for BIF?
Click to expand...

Cool post mike. OP Archie hope it's ok to chime in a a novice but guys will put me straight and I feel ettr is so important it's good to check one's one opinion is right!1

Archie, some pros whom shot in jpeg might not,but they have it wired the whole shebang or if one was deliberately under exposing for ring of fire type images. But essentially a bright sky darker bird no sun on bird (cloudy is going to cause you to over expose anyway ,or you will have to boost exp in post to show any detail on birdy.

Mate the biggy in all this is a simple concept you ettr in digital because you want the highest signal to noise ratio possible in your RAW capture.

If your signal is so high its a gnats off blowing,then one has no noise leastways as little as possible. It has to be there nowt is perfect. Also in post one can only drop exp so no more noise is, or can be introduced .

You don't want to blow highlights on bird / subject though that's kinda your ball park limit. Set the camera screen to view blinkies and back down a bit,you should be good then mate. Chimping is meant to be for erm cough erm (ME:D)..... sod that opinion use these tools .Take test shots see what the screen is doing. I find it really hard exposing correctly your screen and blinkies are a great freind in the field

The idea of ettr is a cleaner file to work with ,you have every tonal detail poss from the darkest dark at 0 to the brightest bright at 255 that you camera sensor can capture to work with with . If you bost your signal in post by definition you have to boost noise.

BIF hard core.first thing is fast SS to get sharp image Tis blighty light so oft low, so quite oft one is having to push iso to grab SS: once one is wide open on f,there isn't another option but to push iso. ettr allows you to grab a better file maybe go further iso than you normally do and still get the best possible file in a given situation .

Bro always artistic liscense your camera your vision,ettr gives ya the most options possible Raw should look washed out in some situations.

Mate I know you aren't asking me,forgive this, it is so important to grasp these base whys this might help and the guys will ' ave me if not ,but we'll both learn;) lol:D

stu
 
Archie747 said:
Very useful post, I will try the tracking settings on my 7DII.

Do you often ETTR for BIF?
Click to expand...

Hi mate,

Unless I'm going for a specific effect such as a silhouette, then I will always try and expose to the right, whether it be perched, static or in flight.

From what I've seen you may have a little more leeway with the mk2 over my mk1 but we're getting into techy reasoning behind it (ISO invariance if you're interested)

General rules for me - get data in the right hand box, use the blinkies on the rear screen - just a few are acceptable, but you don't want too many significant blinkies - then addres the overexposure in post

Mike
 
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