Thames Barrier

ABTog

ABTog

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Alistair
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On Monday morning I got up early and made my way down to the Thames Barrier in the hope of catching the dawn light over the river. I didn't manage to get the shots I'd originally envisaged, but I did manage a few long-ish exposures. I do need a better ND filter setup though, stacked filters giving 14 stops was not enough apparently.


Thames Barrier at Sunrise by AlistairBeavis, on Flickr


Sunrise over the Thames Barrier - B&W by AlistairBeavis, on Flickr


Thames Barrier by AlistairBeavis, on Flickr
 
For a sunrise I think you would be much better on the north side of the river, shooting towards the sun.
I realise it wasn't he best sunrise, but there is too much uninteresting sky, although the last one looks a little nicer in that respect.
It's hard to see why you used a 30 second exposure at f22, and I don't think the B&W treatment adds anything - surely the whole point in shooting a sunrise is to show the colours.
 
I went to shoot the sunrise, but realising I didn't have the best position to make the most of a rather average sunrise, I changed my plan.
I wasn't up early enough to get to the north side of the river, I'd need to add about 30minutes to queue up for the Blackwall Tunnel or Woolwich ferry and get to the other side. I wasn't entirely sure the view I would get of the sun before I set off, hence why the shots ended up being less about the sunrise.
The normal shots I was getting weren't particularly interesting, so I decided to try to go for long exposures to give some smooth water and get a different look that way.
What's the problem with a 30sec, f22 exposure? I had stacked ND filters on there, but it wasn't enough to open the aperture any further.
I didn't have my timer release to do an exposure longer than 30seconds to smooth out the water any more, I couldn't get my ISO any further down and I didn't have any more ND stops to add to get the exposure down. So the only way to get a 30sec exposure was to go to f22.
As I said, because the shots were no longer about the sunrise I tried the b&w treatment to make the most out of what I had managed to capture. I was out there in the freezing cold and didn't want it to be completely wasted.

What would you do differently in this situation?
 
ABTog said:
I went to shoot the sunrise, but realising I didn't have the best position to make the most of a rather average sunrise, I changed my plan.
I wasn't up early enough to get to the north side of the river, I'd need to add about 30minutes to queue up for the Blackwall Tunnel or Woolwich ferry and get to the other side. I wasn't entirely sure the view I would get of the sun before I set off, hence why the shots ended up being less about the sunrise.
The normal shots I was getting weren't particularly interesting, so I decided to try to go for long exposures to give some smooth water and get a different look that way.
What's the problem with a 30sec, f22 exposure? I had stacked ND filters on there, but it wasn't enough to open the aperture any further.
I didn't have my timer release to do an exposure longer than 30seconds to smooth out the water any more, I couldn't get my ISO any further down and I didn't have any more ND stops to add to get the exposure down. So the only way to get a 30sec exposure was to go to f22.
As I said, because the shots were no longer about the sunrise I tried the b&w treatment to make the most out of what I had managed to capture. I was out there in the freezing cold and didn't want it to be completely wasted.

What would you do differently in this situation?
Click to expand...
Maybe get up earlier?

The trouble is a sunrise is always going to be unpredictable and as you found, you can only make the best of whatever you get.
It's always best to scout your location beforehand for shots like this, so you can work out angles etc.

I made the comment about the 30 second exposure because I don't think the water looks particularly smooth.
 
It wasn't a fully planned trip, I only had the idea to go the night before, so hadn't scouted a location and besides, I only had about an hour to do it including travel time.
Scouting locations is the ideal yes, but I don't always have the time to do that.
I try to learn from every photographic experience particularly ones that didn't go as I'd hoped. This time I have learned that a) I need to be on the north side of the river (or a different view point) to catch the sun over the river, b) I need a better set of ND filters, c) to use my timer release.
I may try again when the weather is warmer. ;)
 
You used a 14 stop filter and shot at f22 yet only a 30 second exposure? That can't be right can it?

Knowing the location, the south side is much better than the north and sunsets are better there than sunrises. I have a couple on my flickr stream taken at sunset.
 
ynot said:
You used a 14 stop filter and shot at f22 yet only a 30 second exposure? That can't be right can it?

Knowing the location, the south side is much better than the north and sunsets are better there than sunrises. I have a couple on my flickr stream taken at sunset.
Click to expand...

They were cheap stackable ND filters in a holder, I think an 8, 4 and 2 stop. I just got them to try out, it appears they weren't adequate.
It was very bright, if I had been earlier, it might have been dark enough to allow a longer exposure. But that would have been a problem as the longest exposure you can do on the 60D is 30sec unless you go into bulb mode with a timer release, which I didn't have.
I now have a variable ND filter to try out though, so that'll be for next time.

I've yet to go to that bit of the river for a sunset, perhaps soon.
 
ABTog said:
They were cheap stackable ND filters in a holder, I think an 8, 4 and 2 stop. I just got them to try out, it appears they weren't adequate.
It was very bright, if I had been earlier, it might have been dark enough to allow a longer exposure. But that would have been a problem as the longest exposure you can do on the 60D is 30sec unless you go into bulb mode with a timer release, which I didn't have.
I now have a variable ND filter to try out though, so that'll be for next time.

I've yet to go to that bit of the river for a sunset, perhaps soon.
Click to expand...
Good luck with the variable ND filter.
I had a cheap one that was utter rubbish at maximum density.
I returned it and now use a fixed Heliopan ND 3.0 if I want a long exposure.

The reason I suggested the north bank (for a sunrise) was because it looked as if the sun was shining over your shoulder onto the barrier.
I prefer my sunrise & sunset shots to be looking towards the sun, so I thought the sunrise might be better from the north bank.
I'd like to give a sunrise a try, but I'm on the completely opposite side of London and it takes me getting on for 2 hours to get to the barrier, but maybe a sunset might be possible.
The trouble is you can never predict what a sunrise or sunset will be like and I wouldn't want to make a long journey just to be disappointed.

Do you use "The Photographers Ephemeris" which can give you a sun bearing for any time and is very useful for predicting sunrise and sunset directions at any location?
 
Brian G said:
Good luck with the variable ND filter.
I had a cheap one that was utter rubbish at maximum density.
I returned it and now use a fixed Heliopan ND 3.0 if I want a long exposure.

The reason I suggested the north bank (for a sunrise) was because it looked as if the sun was shining over your shoulder onto the barrier.
I prefer my sunrise & sunset shots to be looking towards the sun, so I thought the sunrise might be better from the north bank.
I'd like to give a sunrise a try, but I'm on the completely opposite side of London and it takes me getting on for 2 hours to get to the barrier, but maybe a sunset might be possible.
The trouble is you can never predict what a sunrise or sunset will be like and I wouldn't want to make a long journey just to be disappointed.

Do you use "The Photographers Ephemeris" which can give you a sun bearing for any time and is very useful for predicting sunrise and sunset directions at any location?
Click to expand...

I'm hoping the variable ND will give me better results than the cheap stacked filters. But I haven't £100 spare for a more expensive/better ND filter. If I find myself doing more of this stuff, then I might manage to invest in something better.

I think at a different time of year the sun would be in a better place for shooting from the south bank into the sun.
Good tip on the app, I'll have to download that, it might save a wasted journey.

martsharm said:
This.

Something can't be right with your filters, off the top of my head it should be a much longer exposure than that.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure whether the filters were actually 8, 4 and 2 stop. They came in a set and aren't marked. So yeah, something up with that.
Will try again when I get a chance.
 
I like the third shot, could do with some better editing though, more contrast but that's a personal opinion.
For the first two, I would have gone closer to the barriers again and cut off the small bit of shoreline in the right hand corner.

What lens are you shooting with? The Haida 3.0 ND filter is fairly cheap for the quality of it. Very little colour cast from it too. I got an 82mm second hand off ebay for £35 posted for my wife, I also got a brand new 77mm one for £49 for myself and 58mm are around £30 new. Much better than any variable filters.
Buy cheap, buy twice.
 
Dan74 said:
OP are your filters ND 8 Nd 4 and ND 2? sounds like you've added them together and equated them to 14 stops?
An ND 8 filter is only 3 stops so this would answer your problem to only getting 30 seconds
Check out this chart http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_density_filter#ND_filter_ratings
It should 'throw some light'! on filter ratings
Click to expand...

That would explain it. Judging by that chart, I only had 6 f-stops of reduction.
That chart does show how many different figures and labelling methods there are. Hence my confusion.
A proper 10 stop ND would give a massive difference in light reduction over the 6 stops I had.
I didn't realise that an ND 4 didn't mean a 4 stop reduction.
As I said, first time using ND filters, so now I know. Cheers.
 
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