The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

JJ! said:
So is this a lose lose situation for action?!

Shoot electronic and you get the jello effect.

Shoot mechanical the EVF has to display the image after each shot which must give some sort of lag when tracking and firing off in CAF?
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Looks like it. I didn't realise the lag was as bad as that tbh. I'd have to try it for myself to see exactly how bad the lag is in real world situations but it's not looking good. The A9 will have less chance of Jello effect due to it's much faster sensor readout, but it's still prone to banding in artificial light, although again probably less than the A7iii/A7Riii. Until they can make a global shutter there'll always be the risk of Jello effect and banding.

I'm. not sure the previous image is being displayed, just a lag. I'm sure the people testing this would have had preview turned off.
 
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I feel like a stranger on this thread, you all seem to know each other well ;)

Anyway, I'm a Nikon guy, D750 at the moment, my idea was to move to Sony and get an A9, huge investment since replacing all my lenses would cost me a lot.

I was determined to do it but since finding out about the deal @ohms12 found, I have had a rethink and I have chnged my plan:

I'm going to go with the a7III from that deal, reason being it also gives me the " 12 months Buy Now Pay Later".
On that time I will have a chance to pay monthly for the new a7III, start selling all my Nikon gear properly, rather than using known traders, and start swapping all my lenses to Sony.
Then in a years time, or earlier, after I have made the swap completely to Sony, I will jump onto the a9...or maybe the a9II by then...who knows? :)

What do you think of this plan?
 
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snerkler said:
Looks like it. I didn't realise the lag was as bad as that tbh. I'd have to try it for myself to see exactly how bad the lag is in real world situations but it's not looking good. The A9 will have less chance of Jello effect due to it's much faster sensor readout, but it's still prone to banding in artificial light, although again probably less than the A7iii/A7Riii. Until they can make a global shutter there'll always be the risk of Jello effect and banding.

I'm. not sure the previous image is being displayed, just a lag. I'm sure the people testing this would have had preview turned off.
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You and JJ should get a d750.
 
PauBass said:
I feel like a stranger on this thread, you all seem to know each other well ;)

Anyway, I'm a Nikon guy, at the moment, my idea was to move to Sony and get an A9, huge investment since replacing all my lenses would cost me a lot.

I was determined to do it but since finding out about the deal @ohms12 found, I have had a rethink and I have chnged my plan:

I'm going to go with the a7III from that deal, reason being it also gives me the " 12 months Buy Now Pay Later".
On that time I will have a chance to pay monthly for the new a7III, start selling all my Nikon gear properly, rather than using known traders, and start swapping all my lenses to Sony.
Then in a years time, or earlier, after I have made the swap completely to Sony, I will jump onto the a9...or maybe the a9II by then...who knows? :)

What do you think of this plan?
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Sounds like a plan, but I’d suggest some hands on time before you take the plunge.
 
snerkler said:
Looks like it. I didn't realise the lag was as bad as that tbh. I'd have to try it for myself to see exactly how bad the lag is in real world situations but it's not looking good. The A9 will have less chance of Jello effect due to it's much faster sensor readout, but it's still prone to banding in artificial light, although again probably less than the A7iii/A7Riii. Until they can make a global shutter there'll always be the risk of Jello effect and banding.

I'm. not sure the previous image is being displayed, just a lag. I'm sure the people testing this would have had preview turned off.
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It’s one of those things that need to try in real situation not in a shop. Hard to record view through the EVF when tracking and shooting!
 
JJ! said:
It’s one of those things that need to try in real situation not in a shop. Hard to record view through the EVF when tracking and shooting!
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This is why I am reserving judgment until i put it through its paces at a real job.
 
Raymond Lin said:
This is why I am reserving judgment until i put it through its paces at a real job.
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There’s no real ‘lag’ to speak about, from what I hear. It’s just that the refresh rate (and PPI) on the A9 is higher than the A7III. That doesn’t mean to say the A7 is laggy, it’s just not as buttery smooth as the A9. In a real life scenario, you’d be hard pressed to notice (unless you came from an A9).

It’s better than an optical viewfinder in any case, let’s put it that way. :p
 
simonbarker said:
I thought one of the main attractions of the A9 was its electronic shutter is fast enough to mostly avoid the jello effect?
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In most cases yes but not all.

ohms12 said:
There’s no real ‘lag’ to speak about, from what I hear. It’s just that the refresh rate (and PPI) on the A9 is higher than the A7III. That doesn’t mean to say the A7 is laggy, it’s just not as buttery smooth as the A9. In a real life scenario, you’d be hard pressed to notice (unless you came from an A9).

It’s better than an optical viewfinder in any case, let’s put it that way. :p
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Did you not see the video of the lag, that was with the A9. OVF’s have no lag ;)
 
I get that people say EVFs are better as you get what you see, but for sports that is the case for the first shot, but if it becomes a bit laggy it’s more you get what you can’t see?!
 
JJ! said:
I get that people say EVFs are better as you get what you see, but for sports that is the case for the first shot, but if it becomes a bit laggy it’s more you get what you can’t see?!
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My only real comparison is Optical and Fuji X-T1.

It'll either be miles better than the X-T1 or absolutely awful vs Optical.

I suspect it is somewhere in between and that is very likely where it is going to be.
 
So does the EVF display what the LCD displays like for like?

For instance in this video he is shooting 10fps In mechanical and it looks smooth. Obviously it’s not panning but is this what would be seen in the EVF?

Check the helicopter blades when using silent mode though lol

View: https://youtu.be/1R7fJpEc-vM
 
Raymond Lin said:
I don't see the point watching reviews AFTER i bought something.

I'll find out the shortcomings my own way as opposed to looking for them.
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Tbh the post was in response to ohms not you ;)
 
JJ! said:
So does the EVF display what the LCD displays like for like?

For instance in this video he is shooting 10fps In mechanical and it looks smooth. Obviously it’s not panning but is this what would be seen in the EVF?

Check the helicopter blades when using silent mode though lol

View: https://youtu.be/1R7fJpEc-vM
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You’re not going to see lag if the scene’s not moving ;)

Yep that’s the jello offer right there ;) I think someone posted a similar effect of a golf swing on here too ;)
 
snerkler said:
You’re not going to see lag if the scene’s not moving ;)

Yep that’s the jello offer right there ;) I think someone posted a similar effect of a golf swing on here too ;)
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Yeah I know! Need some Panning shoots!
 
JJ! said:
For instance in this video he is shooting 10fps In mechanical and it looks smooth
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it doesn't look smooth to me, it looks like it jitters with evey shot. hard to tell when very little movement still
 
snerkler said:
Yep that’s the jello offer right there ;) I think someone posted a similar effect of a golf swing on here too ;)
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I don't see why anyone would buy an A7III to use electronic shutter, unless it was for the odd special usage - for which there are few scenarios.

Likewise you wouldn't buy an A9 to use mechanical shutter if you could help it.
 
dancook said:
it doesn't look smooth to me, it looks like it jitters with evey shot. hard to tell when very little movement still
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dancook said:
When using a DSLR with a mirror, the OVF blinks in the same way anyway...
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Yeah it definitely jitters, but no different to a DSLR ‘flickering’ as the mirror moves as you say. Having a lag is another thing though, difficult to shoot if it’s ‘behind time’. That being said, if you’re panning it’s not going to matter to much as your speed is constant, as long as the subject’s not close to the edges of course as you may end up clipping it as you’re seeing a delayed image.
 
dancook said:
I don't see why anyone would buy an A7III to use electronic shutter, unless it was for the odd special usage - for which there are few scenarios.
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I guess to get rid of the lag?
 
twist said:
You mean nearly 14 ev. Which is .5 ev from d750. Yeah, why not.
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I was kidding :p

Edit: the 5div is ‘only’ 13.6 though, that’s nearly a full stop less ;)
 
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snerkler said:
I think you missed my point tbh. It can only do 10fps without live view, i.e. you're shooting blind so why bother putting this feature in? Who shoots at 10fps without seeing what they're shooting?


I personally don't see what shutter size has to do with lag? I don't fully understand why you should get lag, but my guess would be that it takes time between the sensor 'seeing' the image again and that being translated to the EVF. However, this should be independent of shutter size, if you're shooting at 5fps the time it takes for the shutter to open and close is the same whether the shutter is large or small. This is of course me trying to apply some logic to it, there's probably far more to it than this.
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Ok let’s say it’s not the size / lag of the shutter, it could be the fact the Fuji has less data to read and distribute around the circuit board incl EVF?
I just think Mr Angry was making a big issue when most people bought the Sony A9 for its 20 fps silent shutter.
 
snerkler said:
Yeah it definitely jitters, but no different to a DSLR ‘flickering’ as the mirror moves as you say. Having a lag is another thing though, difficult to shoot if it’s ‘behind time’. That being said, if you’re panning it’s not going to matter to much as your speed is constant, as long as the subject’s not close to the edges of course as you may end up clipping it as you’re seeing a delayed image.
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Panning for me is both up and down. For example following a horse taking pics around a cross country course the terrain is up and down then you have the jumps. Not seeing things even slightly out of real time is a bit of a bummer!
 
Riz_Guru said:
Ok let’s say it’s not the size / lag of the shutter, it could be the fact the Fuji has less data to read and distribute around the circuit board incl EVF?
I just think Mr Angry was making a big issue when most people bought the Sony A9 for its 20 fps silent shutter.
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His videos are quite funny, he has his favorites and therefore they are the best!
 
JJ! said:
Panning for me is both up and down. For example following a horse taking pics around a cross country course the terrain is up and down then you have the jumps. Not seeing things even slightly out of real time is a bit of a bummer!
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Just stick with the D750 mate, at least you know where you are with it (y)
 
dancook said:
You buy an A9 or just accept 'lag' with the inferior A7III mechanical shutter ;)
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Pretty much what he said!
As I have mentioned in the past, the Sony A9’s faster read-out times help, these times have a positive effect on AF performance too allowing it to calculate AF/AE 60 times a second at 20fps.

However for £1999 you shouldn’t be unhappy with the A7 III abilities :)
 
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dancook said:
You buy an A9 or just accept 'lag' with the inferior A7III mechanical shutter ;)
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Tbh having the better EVF, LCD, less chance of Jello, less chance of pin stripe, less chance of banding and arguably better AF the spending an extra £1k on the A9 (grey) sounds like a much more appealing option.
 
snerkler said:
Tbh having the better EVF, LCD, less chance of Jello, less chance of pin stripe, less chance of banding and arguably better AF the spending an extra £1k on the A9 (grey) sounds like a much more appealing option.
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Bingo :D

Also this...

The ISO performance of the a7 III holds its own. It’s not up to par with the a9, but I’d say it’s about one stop away. In a “last chance” shooting scenario, the a9 tops out around ISO 25,600 for what I think is acceptable quality whereas I think 12,800 is the limit on the a7 III. Embedded below is a comparison where all images are zoomed to 200 percent. There’s also a download available to see the full-resolution in-camera JPEGs to determine for yourself the image quality.

https://fstoppers.com/originals/hands-sony-a7-iii-new-normal-227593
 
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Riz_Guru said:
Bingo :D

Also this...

The ISO performance of the a7 III holds its own. It’s not up to par with the a9, but I’d say it’s about one stop away. In a “last chance” shooting scenario, the a9 tops out around ISO 25,600 for what I think is acceptable quality whereas I think 12,800 is the limit on the a7 III. Embedded below is a comparison where all images are zoomed to 200 percent. There’s also a download available to see the full-resolution in-camera JPEGs to determine for yourself the image quality.

https://fstoppers.com/originals/hands-sony-a7-iii-new-normal-227593
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I’d be surprised if there’s a one stop difference tbh. Yes maybe you can use iso one stop higher but I doubt 6400 iso on the A9 looks like 3200 on the A7iii. Obviously I can’t say for sure without seeing for myself ;)
 
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