the stag chase in chronological order

the black fox

the black fox

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Jeff
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could have done with a wide angle lens ,but it happened so fast
 
I presume these are not wild?
 
admirable said:
I presume these are not wild?
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Depends what you class as wild , tatton park is a massive park in Cheshire and the deer roam freely , so certainly not domesticated in any way shape or form . I will look up the acreage in a bit

Yep it’s 2000 acres or 8 square miles .. bit bigger than your back garden so how would you then class the deer certaintly not domesticated
 
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I was thinking more of the safety of the photographer, these images were taken at close range hence my question. They must be very used to folk being in close proximity?
 
admirable said:
I was thinking more of the safety of the photographer, these images were taken at close range hence my question. They must be very used to folk being in close proximity?
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I see your point admirable . How big is a fence before it`s not a cage ? If they are fenced I wouldn`t consider them as wild personally .
 
Lovely sequence-1000 acres =1.5 sq miles. It is a managed herd fed in winter and culled for meat. does not make them tame but not as wild as those in the scottish highlands.
 
Right let’s put this to bed , there is one road through the park . We were on our way out when I spotted the young stag about to cross the road to drink from the rainwater pool ... we pulled over to let it cross and I got out of the car to take a shot of it drinking .. hence the short focal length ... the second stag then charged at it as I took the shots stood beside the car ... . As for being wild they are free roaming in a vast parkland and no more tame than those in Richmond, Windsor,or other deer parks where 95% of online shots come from

I do take umbrage at the suggestion that there not wild as you could then construe that ANY bird photos taken at a nature reserve are also not wild .. or that any photos from game reserves in Africa are not of wild animals ... .

I’ll actually answer this in a understandable way ,yes they are wild there just kept in parkland to protect them from humans .. it’s not a zoo or safari park if you want truly wild stags feel free to go to Scotland and climb a few moors and mountains ..
 
regen said:
Lovely sequence-1000 acres =1.5 sq miles. It is a managed herd fed in winter and culled for meat. does not make them tame but not as wild as those in the scottish highlands.
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It’s actually 2000 acres and 8 square miles
 
the black fox said:
It’s actually 2000 acres and 8 square miles
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nope- 1 square mile is 640 acres so 2000 acres is a touch over 3 square miles unless you mean 2000 acres plus 8 square miles which is just over 7000 acres. However they are still nice pics and i really don't care wether they are wild,controlled or captive you still have to be in the right place at the right time -an enclosed park just narrows the odds a little.
 
I'm just going by there website blurb
 
Lovely sequence Jeff and great captures.
Doesn't make a lot of difference that they are in a Park, you still have to stalk them to get close and with the rut in full swing be very careful to keep an eye on what is going on around, not only with the deer but also the other idiots with cameras who have no idea and spook the animals
 
Jeff to me a herd managed by man over 8 centuries roaming a thousand acres are not truly wild,god know how we actually define domestication of deer?? Selective breeding practiced by man rather than mum nature and survival of the fittest has to be the first step in domestication. Even if desirable traits in other animals such as a gentle disposition aren't being choosen other facets are :Animals such as a switch will be culled with good humane reasons. Where as mum nature isn't that IE humane !! Bigger grander antlers man sees as cool,so we tamper. what we see as a stunning rack might make a deer being persued by wolves somewhat vunerable The result of man's interference isn't quite the same as something wild. I'd lay a bet they are bigger and heavier, than they would be if hunted in nature. Their exposure level to man ie being fed through the winter ,shed loads of folks visiting a big ol country pile ,has an effect.

They aren't wild deer Jeff you can't get a group of togs around a wild deer it's never going to happen All that said me olde mate. I see nowt wrong with any one nabbing some pics of deer in parks. Some of the images I've seen made in london are stunning I don't think you have anything to take umbrance over,you've told every one where and how you nabbed the images it's cool must of been hell of an experience WOW,but they aren't wild deer.

They are fed out the back of a tractor mate!! http://www.tattonpark.org.uk/what_to_see_and_do/parkland/livestock.aspx

Because of that they don't see us as an apex predator, actually it has never really occurred to me before but probably , therein lies my definition of a wild herbivore in our country.......... one that puts itself in the next county when it realises what we are. I don't know reds ,but wild as hell brit deer don't come to a tractor:D they are humanised tis somewhere in the middle.

Jeff this time of year we see all the rut frames they appear and I for one love looking at them but why don't we see roe rut and munty because the buggers are wild as hell and tough to nab an image of . Your red are not wild but at the same time there is b*gger all wrong in that :)

I'm not having a pop loved seeing the images find it interesting what folks think of as wild with our brit deer ..............

3 for me although a tad risky, corker of a frame!!

stu
 
In that case I’ll apply the same logic when I see red kites from mid wales , or any bird shot from any nature reserve anywhere .. the actual fact of the matter though stu is that I never claimed that they were wild deer it’s only what been implied by by other members for snob value .
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I don’t hide where I take my shots or the EXIF data or the make model of camera and or lens . Perhaps it’s time to change that and keep it stume...

When I look at a photo of a bird or animal I try to look at it by is the composition o.k ,are noise levels acceptable ,is it in focus,Is it sharp etc or is it a record of a interesting moment in time . Personally I couldn’t give a toss where it was taken or whether the photographer was sat on the Toilet taking pics out of the window .. ..
 
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The distinction between wild and free is very moot. I agree with Jeff mainly that these are wild even if they have supplementary feeding — garden birds anyone? Or birds raised in nest boxes. Chillingham Wild Cattle — now they are really wild. Boar, aka Wild Boar, in the U.K. could be called feral since they are all currently from escapes or releases. So I think it’s aninteresting but ultimately pointless discussion :exit:
 
The Indian sub-continent was fenced during the Raj -- Great Hedge of India was nearly as long as the Dingo Fence as I recall :cool:.
 
Lepus said:
From the little I could be bothered to read it sounds like a fence / cage that has failed .
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Ah, so are there any holes in the fence round the OP’s Park? Because if there are there may be holes in your argument ;).
 
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sphexx said:
The distinction between wild and free is very moot. I agree with Jeff mainly that these are wild even if they have supplementary feeding — garden birds anyone? Or birds raised in nest boxes. Chillingham Wild Cattle — now they are really wild. Boar, aka Wild Boar, in the U.K. could be called feral since they are all currently from escapes or releases. So I think it’s aninteresting but ultimately pointless discussion :exit:
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Agreed definetly pointless apart from the stags antlers ,and as I have been quiet open about where they were taken I wonder what the point of admirable post was , no I don’t live within Easy travelling range of Scotland Or exmoor to see truly wild stags . I got out of the car to take a photo of the stag having a drink then it kicked off and was over in seconds ,the lens was at 83mm ,focus point was centre frame on spot focus . There was no time to even change any of that .. I was quiet pleased that I got a few shots in focus under the circumstances does it really really matter about whether or not the animal is classed as truly wild ..
I certaintly wonder whether admirable would take the same attitude with shots of lions ,tigers, or other animals from the game reserves in Africa ..
 
I wouldn`t be upset by it Jeff , there nice photos , and the story and action captured alone makes a great sequence . Like you I probably will never get to see Wild Red in the highlands , I am not far from Regents Park , but have not bothered yet to visit as I feel it`s all been done already . At least you got something a little off beat in your chase sequence.
 
I think its a good set- irrespective of location

I think putting this post in Nature- wild and free was your initial problem

Just my take on things

Les :)
 
Lez325 said:
I think its a good set- irrespective of location

I think putting this post in Nature- wild and free was your initial problem

Just my take on things

Les :)
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I’m sure you’re right about that but it doesn’t fit with “Nature - Captive, Domesticated & Plants” does it? Come to think of it, “Plants”, why no section for wild plants? There’s no end to nit-picking and this whole thread has been about that rather than Jeff’s excellent captures (captures? — another contentious subject) -- I plead guilty to that too;)
 
sphexx said:
I’m sure you’re right about that but it doesn’t fit with “Nature - Captive, Domesticated & Plants” does it? Come to think of it, “Plants”, why no section for wild plants? There’s no end to nit-picking and this whole thread has been about that rather than Jeff’s excellent captures (captures? — another contentious subject) -- I plead guilty to that too;)
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well yes it does- they are CAPTIVE ( fenced in) and FED ( on a regular basis) which is domestication be it in a small format

I did comment on the set too - saying it was a good set :)
 
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the mind totally boggles ... so bloody petty its unreal .. please miss Jeffs done something wrong .. shall we stone him to death :bat::bat::bat: need a emoji for WHAT A LOAD OF b*****ks
 
the black fox said:
the mind totally boggles ... so bloody petty its unreal .. please miss Jeffs done something wrong .. shall we stone him to death :bat::bat::bat: need a emoji for WHAT A LOAD OF b*****ks
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Don’t take it to heart. It’s the internet and people just write what they’re thinking and sometimes it doesn’t come out right or becomes more important than it should. Guilty myself often ;).
Also @admirable did explain he was thinking about safety when he/she kicked it all off, which was a fair question to ask, just not clear.
 
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the black fox said:
the mind totally boggles ... so bloody petty its unreal .. please miss Jeffs done something wrong .. shall we stone him to death :bat::bat::bat: need a emoji for WHAT A LOAD OF b*****ks
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Please keep posting photos, some of us just enjoy the photographs for what they are.
 
the black fox said:
finally got round to processing the relevant shots , yesterday spotted a stag having a drink . got out of the car to take a pic . it was spotted by another stag and chased off start to finish it must have been 10 seconds .
the starting gate by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickr

rumble in the park by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickrrampant fury by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickr

get outta my pool by jeff and jan cohen, on Flickr
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”Excellent” set of images, wherever they were taken.

George.
 
Jeez, this hasn’t half escalated!
 
I kicked this off sorry Jeff with me it's just genuine curiosity as to what folks think of as wild there is no axe being ground But I should have asked this elsewhere mate not derailed your thread
apologies

.
 
Excellent set i don’t understand why someone would say that they should be in the captive section that one is for zoo animals in cages or enclosures these are free roaming over a huge area
I’ve been told to get over there myself will do soon
 
To Jeff,
Now that I have more time to clarify, these images were obviously taken at close range, the cropping of the antlers was the first big clue, so I presumed they were not wild, hence my question……………I wish I hadn’t bothered.

There is no indication in your opening post as to the location only that you ‘got out of your car’ so I thought you may have been lucky and on the off chance you may have been by the side of a road somewhere in the countryside. For what it’s worth I had never heard of Tatton Park until yesterday whilst reading this post.

My concern was safety, many foolish and uneducated photographers do not realise how dangerous a stag can be during the rut, especially if they are holding hinds. You need to understand these animals will turn on you if they think for a moment you are a threat. The last thing anyone needs is a set of antlers coming at them belonging to 14 stone of red deer! I’ll wager there are warning signs all over the estate informing the public of the dangers at this time of year.

At no point did I comment on your images in a negative or positive way so I can’t understand your post No 28, to me this is not in the spirit of the forum, in fact it’s playground bulling and comes across as very childish and condescending!

I’m now off to pick a friend up at the airport.

Speak later
 
I and to clarify I’m perfectly aware of safety issues and the car door was wide open to dive in if needed .. and although it’s 83mm focal length I have a 2x crop so double that up .. plus I’m hardly a uneducated photographer Either ... this was a totally one off moment in time as we stopped to take a photo of it drinking ,the other stag appeared like a bat out of hell and as I said it was all over in seconds . My camera shoots and manages to focus as well at 18 f.p.s and that helps to . I don’t do bullying in fact I detest it .nuff has been said let it rest now
 
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