The virus. PPE. Part 1

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KitsuneAndy said:
So the people protesting are an issue, but the flocks of people on the beaches and our own PM ignoring social distancing in the House of Commons aren't the issue?

Interesting.
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Andy ...Don't put words into my mouth. They're all the issue, including the media.

When the Pandemic was first reported, some of us thought that ALL travel in/out of this country should have been stopped
I was also informed of the severity of the virus at that time as well.
 
dcash29 said:
Andy ...Don't put words into my mouth. They're all the issue, including the media.

When the Pandemic was first reported, some of us thought that ALL travel in/out of this country should have been stopped
I was also informed of the severity of the virus at that time as well.
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Indeed, as our scientists said at the press conference, quarantine measures are highly effective when you're in a country with a low rate of infection and other countries have a high rate of infection.

We are a country with a high rate of infection, implementing quarantine now does nothing and travelling to a country with a lower rate of infection is more of a risk for that country than it us for us or the UK in general.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Indeed, as our scientists said at the press conference, quarantine measures are highly effective when you're in a country with a low rate of infection and other countries have a high rate of infection.

We are a country with a high rate of infection, implementing quarantine now does nothing and travelling to a country with a lower rate of infection is more of a risk for that country than it us for us or the UK in general.
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1. Thats youre thinking is it?
2. Oh right so we'll spread it amounts other... good idea.

Everyone needs to stop being selfish and use their brain.
 
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dcash29 said:
1. Thats youre thinking is it?
2. Oh right so we'll spread it amounts other... good idea.

Everyone needs to stop being selfish and use their brain.
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It's our scientists thinking, they said as much. Plus, my family have already had it. Like I say, if Thailand will accept us in from our high risk country, then that is not posing any risk to the UK. So the UK choosing to implement quarantine now, when we are one of the worst impacted countries in the world. Makes no sense. As confirmed by the Governments own scientific advisers.
 
Prof Dingwall told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “We are not seeing new clusters that are taking off from people who have been travelling abroad.

“I think we would really need to get the level in this country significantly further down before quarantine started to become a useful measure.

“That I think, even then, we would have to see something that is targeted on countries with a significantly higher level of community transmission than ourselves – and there aren’t too many of those around, I’m afraid.”

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/sage-scientist-casts-doubt-on-quarantine-plans/
 
I see the police are sensibly not willing to give out their details to casually employed Serco call centre people. Neither shall I, I think. How will they identify themselves to distinguish from the usual spam callers. I haven’t seen any advertised “call back” numbers. I had that problem when I started getting text messages apparently from Leeds Council asking for replies. Nowhere on the Leeds web site was the number advertised. Turned out to be genuine.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
So the people protesting are an issue, but the flocks of people on the beaches and our own PM ignoring social distancing in the House of Commons aren't the issue?

Interesting.

It's certainly not going away here any time soon, as the Govt are pushing ahead with easing lockdown against their own scientific advisers advice, who've said it's not safe until the track and trace program is running properly.

We're still planning on going to Thailand in August. Why wouldn't we? Far less infections there, infact, if anything, they should stop us going there to protect themselves (although we've already had it so hopefully immune now)
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Safe in what way?

We know that until we get a vaccine we will not be safe - in fact the only way we could be is to go full lockdown, remove the virus from the UK and shut all borders to everything, which is not feasible. There is a balancing act and an 'acceptable' number of deaths in order to get things going again. Keeping the lockdown longer and stricter could easily lead to more severe problems down the line... So it depends on whether the advisors have all the data to hand and are taking into account the effects of lockdown.
 
cambsno said:
Safe in what way?

We know that until we get a vaccine we will not be safe - in fact the only way we could be is to go full lockdown, remove the virus from the UK ... So it depends on whether the advisors have all the data to hand and are taking into account the effects of lockdown.
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The problem with anything short of a full lockdown is that the infection will spread until there are no new hosts available. When a disease causes the very wide range of symptoms that this one causes, there's a gamble in whatever course of action is chosen. Against any particular course of action we have to consider the adverse effects on the economy and otherwise healthy people.

In my opinion, the least bad option is to maintain lockdown for both high risk, currently uneffected people and also for anyone who is diagnosed with the disease. If the testing regime can be cranked up to a level where it is practical to make it compulsory and if it can be married to an effective tracing system, then we can begin to return to some degree of normality.

However, I believe that the current government lacks the ability to move forward in this way, based on its behaviour so far. That suggests that a second wave of high infections of vulnerable people becomes a strong possibility and that this will be enough to destabilise the NHS. I do hope I am proved wrong but in the meantime will continue to isolate myself as much as possible to prevent aquiring the disease and putting my wife at risk.
 
ITN have just reported that the infection rate is down from 8k a day to something between 5k/6k a day, I forget exactly what they said. That is still quite a rate.
 
cambsno said:
Safe in what way?

We know that until we get a vaccine we will not be safe - in fact the only way we could be is to go full lockdown, remove the virus from the UK and shut all borders to everything, which is not feasible. There is a balancing act and an 'acceptable' number of deaths in order to get things going again. Keeping the lockdown longer and stricter could easily lead to more severe problems down the line... So it depends on whether the advisors have all the data to hand and are taking into account the effects of lockdown.
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Safe in that without the track and trace operational we risk the infection rate going straight back up again. Getting the balance is important, and the whole point of track and trace is to help get that balance. Without it, we risk losing control of it again.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
(although we've already had it so hopefully immune now)
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How sure are you that you had it? Did you have a positive test? I guess you haven’t had an antibody test since you say “hopefully”. Not doubting you, just curious.

Not relevant in your case but apparently negative results have 1 in 3 chance of being wrong, though positive results have high reliability.
Edit: typos.
 
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sphexx said:
How sure are you that you had it? Did you have a positive test? I guess you haven’t had an antibody test since you say ‘hopefully. Not doubting you, just curious.

Not relevant in your case but apparently negative results have 1 in 3 chance of being wrong, though positive results have high reliability.
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Positive antibody test

Capture.JPG
 
sphexx said:
How sure are you that you had it? Did you have a positive test? I guess you haven’t had an antibody test since you say ‘hopefully. Not doubting you, just curious.

Not relevant in your case but apparently negative results have 1 in 3 chance of being wrong, though positive results have high reliability.
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And yep, that's my understanding from talking to the lab. While fingerprick tests might be less accurate when returning negative results, the presence of antibodies in blood drawn like that means a positive test is highly accurate.
 
Retune said:
Think I'll go for the Dutch cheese instead!
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Can’t say I’m fond of the Dutch cheeses one usually finds in supermarkets here. Mature Gouda is good though even if it has an unpronounceable name :(.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
It's our scientists thinking, they said as much. Plus, my family have already had it. Like I say, if Thailand will accept us in from our high risk country, then that is not posing any risk to the UK. So the UK choosing to implement quarantine now, when we are one of the worst impacted countries in the world. Makes no sense. As confirmed by the Governments own scientific advisers.
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Has it been confirmed that you cant catch the virus again or pass it on if you come in contact?
 
sphexx said:
Can’t say I’m fond of the Dutch cheeses one usually finds in supermarkets here. Mature Gouda is good though even if it has an unpronounceable name :(.
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One like this is very pleasant from the city of its origin at the Thursday cheese market

P1002914 1.jpg
 
dcash29 said:
Has it been confirmed that you cant catch the virus again or pass it on if you come in contact?
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No.

Before you then go on to tell me that I shouldn't be traveling again, I'll again point you to the fact our governments own scientific advisors don't agree with the quarantine, as we're an area of high, and not low infection.

So me traveling to an area of low infection, is actually less risky than me staying here. Assuming the destination are happy with UK travellers arriving of course.
 
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sphexx said:
Can’t say I’m fond of the Dutch cheeses one usually finds in supermarkets here. Mature Gouda is good though even if it has an unpronounceable name :(.
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I was put off for years by that rubbery mild supermarket Gouda, but have liked the good stuff when I've had it.
 
broc said:
I remember as a secondary school governor talking to some students at the school and the subject of dropping litter came up. There were some who felt they were doing a public service by dropping their litter as it kept the council workers employed picking it up......
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cambsno said:
I do not disagree, but the fact is people wont always put rubbish in the bins or not go to beauty spots. Now we can moan all we like about their stupidity etc... but we end up with rubbish, or we can accept not everyone has good morals/standards and do what we can to mitigate (i.e. more bins etc...)
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Rapscallion said:
I have heard adults make the same claim
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Missed a couple of days on here but this is in relation to the easing of lockdown and litter.There were some photos of litter at beaches and popular locations posted on here.

I listen to Five Live phone-in each morning (9.00am) and quite a few years ago I recall there was a phone-in on litter and I heard a caller say exactly that as mentioned by broc... ie. It keeps council workers in a job.

Here's a December 2019 article on litter
https://www.countryfile.com/how-to/...blem-why-is-it-so-bad-and-how-to-take-action/

I thought it was mainly a UK problem (within Europe) but it's not according to this article . We've visited France a few times and I didn't see litter there. Austria, Germany both good re litter.

https://amberol.co.uk/community/post/2016-06-22/litter-a-problem-for-europe

I hate to see litter. I belonged to a local group that litter-picked once a month around a local lake area. I even made a grappling iron on a rope and got quite accomplished at hooking bikes, kiddies scoot-alongs (?) and other large items from the water. I saw a family walking along the footpath a year or so ago. Mom-Dad a teenager (14) and two under 10's..all eating mini chocolate spongy cakes from a large box of them that they'd just bought. How did I know that ? Mom threw the empty box onto the footpath. I picked it up and took it home..As pointed out above litter bins are few and far between, I assume because the council would have to pay to have them emptied. Best not to confront these people you just don't know who you are dealing with so these people who come on Five Live saying they did that and took the litter to the offenders are taking a risk.

Re the council. I recall asking a council employee who was emptying city centre street bins why he was leaving the excess litter that had spilt onto the footpath. Answer ? "The street cleaners pick that up "

Do infant/Juniorschools tell children about litter ? That would be a good place to start.
 
sphexx said:
Can’t say I’m fond of the Dutch cheeses one usually finds in supermarkets here. Mature Gouda is good though even if it has an unpronounceable name :(.
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We discovered that the Dutch keep their best cheese for themselves. Mature Gouda and Edam bought there is vastly superior to the stuff sold here. There's a cheese warehouse in Edam that is only open part time but it is a place of pilgrimage for my wife. We buy several kilos of cheese to bring home for the family whenever we visit.

On the subject of keeping stuff for themselves, when was the last time you saw German red wine on sale in the UK? Germany produces & sells plenty of red wine as well as white, just not for export it seems. I have enjoyed many a bottle brought home from holidays there.
 
sphexx said:
Can’t say I’m fond of the Dutch cheeses one usually finds in supermarkets here. Mature Gouda is good though even if it has an unpronounceable name :(.
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I like me some Gouda, don't you just pronounce it 'Gu-Da'?
 
KitsuneAndy said:
No.

Before you then go on to tell me that I shouldn't be traveling again, I'll again point you to the fact our governments own scientific advisors don't agree with the quarantine, as we're an area of high, and not low infection.

So me traveling to an area of low infection, is actually less risky than me staying here. Assuming the destination are happy with UK travellers arriving of course.
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It all depends on how you plan on traveling, personally if it involves sitting in a metal box with a large number of other people from a certain high risk country count me out. On a side note I'm beginning to lose faith in some of our so called scientific experts, are these the same ones that said it was pointless for us to introduce a quarantine two months ago when we went into the UK's half assed version of lockdown and also said that it was perfectly safe to put untested or in some cases people who had tested positive for covid into retirement/nursing homes.
 
tijuana taxi said:
Oh no, it's said more like it starts with a H whilst clearing your throat.
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Didn't know this - here in backarse nowhere Ireland with our harsh accents we say it as we read it :D I can get that though, plenty of Irish words get bastardised abroad, even in the UK - they don't half hammer our names [Doherty is NOT pronounced 'Dog-arty' for example]
 
Is it true that only Ireland are still sticking to the 2m distance rule? I read somewhere that most other EU countries have slipped back to 1m? Also up until Monday coming, we've stuck to the 5km ruling [was still 2km up until a couple weeks back] and stores here are still running a queue system, with 2m markings everywhere
 
JohnC6 said:
I thought it was mainly a UK problem (within Europe) but it's not according to this article . We've visited France a few times and I didn't see litter there. Austria, Germany both good re litter.
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Interesting. Maybe things are different recently, but driving from France to either Belgium or Italy the difference in the amount of garbage everywhere was immediately noticeable. I should say the French rival the British in their casual ability to distribute cruft around the coutnryside and city.

I live in a village, and we regularly litter-pick. I'd love to see birching introduced for those who litter the countryside, let alone fly-tippers.
 
tarric said:
It all depends on how you plan on traveling, personally if it involves sitting in a metal box with a large number of other people from a certain high risk country count me out. On a side note I'm beginning to lose faith in some of our so called scientific experts, are these the same ones that said it was pointless for us to introduce a quarantine two months ago when we went into the UK's half assed version of lockdown and also said that it was perfectly safe to put untested or in some cases people who had tested positive for covid into retirement/nursing homes.
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The problem with science is it gets pedestalled (and hijacked sometimes). At times like this the advice is often the best guess based on a tiny amount of available data and sometimes modulated by political or practical pressures plus a whole bunch of other things. It is unusual to be in a situation where data unambiguously indicates a single absolutely correct path that will ensure success, so an approach is chosen that it is hoped will be the least bad while doing the maximum amount of good.

It may also be that what is presented to the public isn't what the scientists said in private, especially if people with a range of leanings and ideologies where asked for advice.
 
tijuana taxi said:
Oh no, it's said more like it starts with a H whilst clearing your throat.
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I’ve only visited Amsterdam once and while there a Dutch friend said I had to see the <guttural sound> House. After various tries at understanding him (he spoke perfect English) he said you must know it, it’s the same word in English — he spelled it out and it turned out to be the “Regent’s House“ but the “g” sound had completely destroyed the rest of the word, to my ears :).
 
JohnC6 said:
Missed a couple of days on here but this is in relation to the easing of lockdown and litter.There were some photos of litter at beaches and popular locations posted on here.

I listen to Five Live phone-in each morning (9.00am) and quite a few years ago I recall there was a phone-in on litter and I heard a caller say exactly that as mentioned by broc... ie. It keeps council workers in a job.

Here's a December 2019 article on litter
https://www.countryfile.com/how-to/...blem-why-is-it-so-bad-and-how-to-take-action/

I thought it was mainly a UK problem (within Europe) but it's not according to this article . We've visited France a few times and I didn't see litter there. Austria, Germany both good re litter.

https://amberol.co.uk/community/post/2016-06-22/litter-a-problem-for-europe

I hate to see litter. I belonged to a local group that litter-picked once a month around a local lake area. I even made a grappling iron on a rope and got quite accomplished at hooking bikes, kiddies scoot-alongs (?) and other large items from the water. I saw a family walking along the footpath a year or so ago. Mom-Dad a teenager (14) and two under 10's..all eating mini chocolate spongy cakes from a large box of them that they'd just bought. How did I know that ? Mom threw the empty box onto the footpath. I picked it up and took it home..As pointed out above litter bins are few and far between, I assume because the council would have to pay to have them emptied. Best not to confront these people you just don't know who you are dealing with so these people who come on Five Live saying they did that and took the litter to the offenders are taking a risk.

Re the council. I recall asking a council employee who was emptying city centre street bins why he was leaving the excess litter that had spilt onto the footpath. Answer ? "The street cleaners pick that up "

Do infant/Juniorschools tell children about litter ? That would be a good place to start.
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Many years ago I was always pleased to see to London streets again on returning from “abroad”, so clean and litter free compared with those of Johnny Foreigner. All that changed when the litter bins were removed in response to the IRA (Provisionals I should say) bombing campaign when they put some in litter bins. I think people got out of the habit of binning stuff. I thought at the time they should have replaced the bins with ones that would direct the explosion upwards rather than remove them :(.
 
dcash29 said:
When I said escape in this country I wasnt meaning stop overnight anywhere. We'd all like to go on holiday, however due to the soft lockdown and now protesting loonies who are not social distancing this thing isnt going away anytime soon..
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good
 
sphexx said:
How sure are you that you had it? Did you have a positive test? I guess you haven’t had an antibody test since you say “hopefully”. Not doubting you, just curious.

Not relevant in your case but apparently negative results have 1 in 3 chance of being wrong, though positive results have high reliability.
Edit: typos.
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KitsuneAndy said:
Positive antibody test

View attachment 281771
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Please don't rely too much on the immunity factor :-(
 
Donnie said:
Please don't rely too much on the immunity factor :-(
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No, not counting on being immune at all and still being very careful. Both of us work from home so it's pretty easy. But I assume that if we did contract it again, the symptoms wouldn't be as bad as first time round due to the fact we have some antibodies already.
 
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