The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Just seen they have pulled the plug on the Venice carnival two days early ,it’s creeping closer to the u.k every day .how long before a major outbreak here and are we prepared ..... bet not ?
Nonsense, Boris will call a Cabinet meeting and say “stop the virus - what are we going to do?” and they will chorus “get it done!”
 
It`s now 13 cases for the UK, where the gov lot went wrong was bringing them back. I`d of said sorry but you stay where you are till it`s sorted and gov lot will pay for hotels.

8 of those have cases already been given the all clear and have left hospital.

And your risk of catching the virus have been made how many times worse because four more people who are in isolation have contracted the virus?
 
8 of those have cases already been given the all clear and have left hospital.

And your risk of catching the virus have been made how many times worse because four more people who are in isolation have contracted the virus?
Who bloody well knows ,according to reports it’s springing up in places with no contact trail , could it be coming in on packages from China ? Sorry mate but in all my 74 years I have never yet seen or heard of anything like this , take note as well it’s just over 100years since the Spanish flu killed more than WW1 and these days we have air travel to spread it quicker
 
Who bloody well knows ,according to reports it’s springing up in places with no contact trail , could it be coming in on packages from China ? Sorry mate but in all my 74 years I have never yet seen or heard of anything like this , take note as well it’s just over 100years since the Spanish flu killed more than WW1 and these days we have air travel to spread it quicker

Spanish flu spread so quickly in part due to ignorance, we now have a better understanding of these things.


I am not concerned by this virus and I too have health issues that put me in the "higher risk" groups.
 
As I said 10 days ago
What baffles me is, the fact that anyone with even the basic school boy knowledge of virology or immunology,
could even consider the fact that this could have been contained.
It was already "too late" by the time it was detected.

You only have to watch the rise of the planet of the apes, ending, to see
exactly how fast this sort of thing spreads !
 
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As I said 10 days ago


You only have to watch the rise of the planet of the apes, ending, to see
exactly how fast this sort of thing spreads !
I see you are a serious student of history:)
 
Who bloody well knows ,according to reports it’s springing up in places with no contact trail , could it be coming in on packages from China ? Sorry mate but in all my 74 years I have never yet seen or heard of anything like this , take note as well it’s just over 100years since the Spanish flu killed more than WW1 and these days we have air travel to spread it quicker

Reports?
 
I noticed this afternoon that w.h.smith have moved all there end of the world paperbacks from the fiction section to fact .....

on a more serious note a train has been refused entry from Italy to Austria due to two passengers having symptoms .I feel this is going to become more and more common as time passes .. I dont really see how anyone now can dismiss this as not my problem its quite frightening and spreading faster than lightning
 
I noticed this afternoon that w.h.smith have moved all there end of the world paperbacks from the fiction section to fact .....

on a more serious note a train has been refused entry from Italy to Austria due to two passengers having symptoms .I feel this is going to become more and more common as time passes .. I dont really see how anyone now can dismiss this as not my problem its quite frightening and spreading faster than lightning

I do think you need to take that tin foil hat off. How on earth can you say it is spreading faster than lightning?
 
I see you are a serious student of history:)
:LOL: I know all about reincarnation too, I've seen the mummy :D


But seriously, it was just a heads up for people that don't actually realise how fast and how easy these things spread in a very short space of time.
And *you* only have to watch the last few mins to get the idea
 
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Forgive me for saying that I am not going to waste what could be my last few weeks of life if I get the disease, worrying about catching it.
As far as I know they haven't yet positively determined how it is spread, but are saying similar to other flu type viruses,
making it highly unlikely you can be infected by packages from abroad
The incubation period from being in contact was originally 14 days, but cases are now showing after that period,
but as you don't know in 1st few days how do we know people haven't been in contact with others who travelled before the
quarantine started.
So enjoy life, doing what makes you happy, as they say, it may never happen
 
https://news.yahoo.com/10-italian-towns-lockdown-over-coronavirus-fears-220635548.html
There may be now good reasons to be careful about going to Italy. If you just use campervan in the Dolomites you'll be fine though.... no flights or hotels for me any time soon. I like being self-reliant on my travels anyway; this helps with being more frugal and spending far more time out there as a result.
As the news broke for Northern Italy, I think that would be a logical time to become concerned and think about cancel our trip this weekend.

It's unfortunate for Italy. On a personal level, if it stayed clear of virus for the next month, I would have had more "persuasive power" in the future ;)
 
I've noticed people giving Chinese tourists bit of a wide berth and some wary looks on public transport.
Same thing happened after 7/7 with Asian type people carrying rucksacks, just human nature.

I'm keeping well away from the oriental fish place at St Pancras next time I catch the Eurostar
That's just because it stinks though, not nice sitting in the coffee place next to it on an early morning start
 
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I saw this on twatter and thought what a f*****g good idea .... NOT!
What is wrong with these people?

Source

CONSERVATIVE mayoral candidate Shaun Bailey has said the Summer Olympics and Paralympics could be hosted in London if the Games are forced to move due to the coronavirus outbreak – as a spokesman for the current mayor, Sadiq Khan, said London would “step up to the plate” if asked.
 
I saw this on twatter and thought what a f*****g good idea .... NOT!
What is wrong with these people?

Source

Bad enough having the current level of risk, but to increase it by inviting an additional influx of potential carriers is lunacy. Also, imagine lying in bed ill with only the TV to look at and it is polluted 24/7 with boring athletics.
 
I do think you need to take that tin foil hat off. How on earth can you say it is spreading faster than lightning?
try reading the news now and again . this stiff upper lip attitude doesn't help its about 5 cases short of a pandemic at the moment and not diminishing . mind you saying that the world does need de-populating quiet a bit .
the four horsemen of the apocalypse have left the stables :wave::wave::wave::wave:
 
try reading the news now and again . this stiff upper lip attitude doesn't help its about 5 cases short of a pandemic at the moment and not diminishing . mind you saying that the world does need de-populating quiet a bit .
the four horsemen of the apocalypse have left the stables :wave::wave::wave::wave:
I'm intrigued to know what, if any, impact it has had on China's CO2 emissions.
 
I'm intrigued to know what, if any, impact it has had on China's CO2 emissions.
It will go up if they start burning the dead I expect.
 
try reading the news now and again . this stiff upper lip attitude doesn't help its about 5 cases short of a pandemic at the moment and not diminishing . mind you saying that the world does need de-populating quiet a bit .
the four horsemen of the apocalypse have left the stables :wave::wave::wave::wave:

I read the news (not that I believe all of it), just that I have a different take on it to you. Pandemic, relates to how far a disease or virus spreads as much as anything else. Stiff upper lip, has nothing to do with it. Looking at the information we have available (discussion about that data's accuracy has already been discussed) It is not a massive killer. The numbers outside china are not really that high (as a percentage of the population)

The four horseman of the apocalypse may have left the stable, but they are just out in the stable-yard. So all the sh!t can be cleared from the stables.
 
There was a more 'granular' analysis of the fatalities i.e. the age and underlying health condition(s) are the more important mitigating factors......................the higher percentages who died were >80 and in poorer health than normal.

I surmise no real surprise in that as seasonal flu alone sadly takes those in the very same cohort :(

Any/all mitigation actions taken fall into two areas ~ reduce the movement of those infected & at risk of infection and where infection detected isolate and trace top isolate those who have been in contact. Yes, no system is 100% foolproof but steps are being taken as appropriate.

Also, stating IMO the obvious ~ bear mind the PPE garbed health workers are wearing the gear to ensure their risk of infection is kept as statistically low as possible and hence make it equally so their risk of spreading it!

The face masks used by the general public are at best a good mitigation against potential spreading of the virus by coughs & sneezes at worst nothing more than a panacea because of poor personal hygiene not 'covered' by the use of a mask!
 
It will go up if they start burning the dead I expect.

That's near enough the only thing they do now. Their economy is collapsing and small businesses already running out of cash. It's a terrible scenario
 
That's near enough the only thing they do now. Their economy is collapsing and small businesses already running out of cash. It's a terrible scenario

China’s economy collapsing will result in the world economy collapsing far worse than the recessions we have had over the past 10 years.

They hold something stupid like 75% of all us national debt also. Which would crush the US.

They said with sars the world economy lost 40billion and I’m sure this is going to be gravely more already.
 
So if the bugs don't get you the economy crashing will, oh how optimistic we all are.
 
So if the bugs don't get you the economy crashing will, oh how optimistic we all are.
I don’t if everyone realises how dependant we are on China. I read a recent account of a Dutch (I think) pharmacist who trying to make a medical drug from scratch (it was to get around a ‘blackmailing‘ US drug company, complicated story but something you are allowed to do privately) but found that almost all the needed base chemicals were only available from China.
 
So if the bugs don't get you the economy crashing will, oh how optimistic we all are.

You know what, sod this thing I'm still quite optimistic on a personal level despite realising the full weight of this coming mess. I'd just rather be ready for it, if that is still possible.

all the needed base chemicals were only available from China.

From my hands down experience that is indeed the case, although it still shouldn't be impossible for US and German major chemical companies (DOW, Bayer) to start filling the void. It won't be easy considering how much they moved to china. They themselves however must import most raw materials, so its not like we can't do it if there is a will and need. It doesn't however help when your economy is relying on basically AirBnBs and Cayman islands schemes.
 
There's no reason all the stuff we buy from China can't be made in the west, but no-one would want to pay the prices we'd have to charge.

I don’t if everyone realises how dependant we are on China. I read a recent account of a Dutch (I think) pharmacist who trying to make a medical drug from scratch (it was to get around a ‘blackmailing‘ US drug company, complicated story but something you are allowed to do privately) but found that almost all the needed base chemicals were only available from China.

Not saying that's not true, but I'm a little surprised. It has never been easier to obtain chemicals and other raw materials from international suppliers: Sigma Aldrich (now owned by Merck Millipore) and Thermo Fisher are able to supply an absolutely bewildering range of chemicals and other raw materials, in addition to the small specialist distributors and resellers that have sprung up in the last 20 years. Some of these materials are certainly supplied from China, but many are not, or at least not solely. TBH it would be more of a problem if one of those 2 companies I mentioned refused to sell something to a lab, although you can be sure a similar material would almost certainly be available from someone else. The only exceptions being some very specialised materials protected by IP and only sold with a license like some of the specially modified cells for expressing proteins from Invitrogen (part of Thermo Fisher) although there are other systems outside those now too.

There was a change that started about 30 years ago when big pharma were downsizing and merging. A lot of guys took VS & set up their own businesses, and the industry that supplies raw materials realised and started dealing with the 'little guys' and their startups. By the time I had my own business in 2009, Fisher had startup packages and discounts for the startups, and I could get anything I could pay for.
 
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There's no reason all the stuff we buy from China can't be made in the west, but no-one would want to pay the prices we'd have to charge.



Not saying that's not true, but I'm a little surprised. It has never been easier to obtain chemicals and other raw materials from international suppliers: Sigma Aldrich (now owned by Merck Millipore) and Thermo Fisher are able to supply an absolutely bewildering range of chemicals and other raw materials, in addition to the small specialist distributors and resellers that have sprung up in the last 20 years. Some of these materials are certainly supplied from China, but many are not, or at least not solely. TBH it would be more of a problem if one of those 2 companies I mentioned refused to sell something to a lab, although you can be sure a similar material would almost certainly be available from someone else. The only exceptions being some very specialised materials protected by IP and only sold with a license like some of the specially modified cells for expressing proteins from Invitrogen (part of Thermo Fisher) although there are other systems outside those now too.

There was a change that started about 30 years ago when big pharma were downsizing and merging. A lot of guys took VS & set up their own businesses, and the industry that supplies raw materials realised and started dealing with the 'little guys' and their startups. By the time I had my own business in 2009, Fisher had startup packages and discounts for the startups, and I could get anything I could pay for.
Unfortunateley I can’t remember wher I read this account but it was a one off so may not be general though it does fit the pattern of manufacturing moving East :(. Likeliest place I read it might be Ars Technica so Ill have a look there.

Edit; I reckon this was the basis for the story I read but I don’t have access to the full text: https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2103.full
 
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There's no reason all the stuff we buy from China can't be made in the west, but no-one would want to pay the prices we'd have to charge.



Not saying that's not true, but I'm a little surprised. It has never been easier to obtain chemicals and other raw materials from international suppliers: Sigma Aldrich (now owned by Merck Millipore) and Thermo Fisher are able to supply an absolutely bewildering range of chemicals and other raw materials, in addition to the small specialist distributors and resellers that have sprung up in the last 20 years. Some of these materials are certainly supplied from China, but many are not, or at least not solely. TBH it would be more of a problem if one of those 2 companies I mentioned refused to sell something to a lab, although you can be sure a similar material would almost certainly be available from someone else. The only exceptions being some very specialised materials protected by IP and only sold with a license like some of the specially modified cells for expressing proteins from Invitrogen (part of Thermo Fisher) although there are other systems outside those now too.

There was a change that started about 30 years ago when big pharma were downsizing and merging. A lot of guys took VS & set up their own businesses, and the industry that supplies raw materials realised and started dealing with the 'little guys' and their startups. By the time I had my own business in 2009, Fisher had startup packages and discounts for the startups, and I could get anything I could pay for.
There's no reason all the stuff we buy from China can't be made in the west, but no-one would want to pay the prices we'd have to charge.



Not saying that's not true, but I'm a little surprised. It has never been easier to obtain chemicals and other raw materials from international suppliers: Sigma Aldrich (now owned by Merck Millipore) and Thermo Fisher are able to supply an absolutely bewildering range of chemicals and other raw materials, in addition to the small specialist distributors and resellers that have sprung up in the last 20 years. Some of these materials are certainly supplied from China, but many are not, or at least not solely. TBH it would be more of a problem if one of those 2 companies I mentioned refused to sell something to a lab, although you can be sure a similar material would almost certainly be available from someone else. The only exceptions being some very specialised materials protected by IP and only sold with a license like some of the specially modified cells for expressing proteins from Invitrogen (part of Thermo Fisher) although there are other systems outside those now too.

There was a change that started about 30 years ago when big pharma were downsizing and merging. A lot of guys took VS & set up their own businesses, and the industry that supplies raw materials realised and started dealing with the 'little guys' and their startups. By the time I had my own business in 2009, Fisher had startup packages and discounts for the startups, and I could get anything I could pay for.

I have a bit of experience in the filed to give some hard answers.

1. It is all mostly made in China, because it is simply convenient and economical to carry out environmentally harmful synthesis in a country with very few regulations (for native companies).
The same work would have to be heavily regulated and plants built to much higher standard. You will say that is great and how is supposed to be done, and it is, but don't forget these corporations only care about profit at any cost.
It also applies to many other things like computer chips or car parts. They make so many things, some exclusively that cutting them out will be very painful.

2. Aldrich is a small scale re-seller. They in fact mark up their prices very high compared to even their close competitors like Alfa or Fischer. They only really cater research labs, not plants.
yes they buy their stuff from anywhere that is either quick and convenient (small scale, very expensive designer fine chemicals, catalysts), or in bulk and cheap. The middlemen are likely even more relying on Chinese materials at some stage in the process (it can be 10 step or more to make final compound!)... It all comes back to China sooner or later in many cases.

3. How do I create my own little startup in pharma??? One thing you can't seem to get is proper access to the literature.
 
I see you are a serious student of history:)

So am I and I recommend that anyone who wants to learn about space travel should watch Startrek (esp. the guy with the pointed ears) .... :LOL:
 
I won’t cancel any of mine.
Interesting you won’t cancel you holidays. I’m not saying you should and I guess you are retired/independent means/work only at home, because if you do come back from an affected area and develop a fever for whatever reason you will have to self isolate for at least 14 days, which could prove expensive for many people.
 
Interesting you won’t cancel you holidays. I’m not saying you should and I guess you are retired/independent means/work only at home, because if you do come back from an affected area and develop a fever for whatever reason you will have to self isolate for at least 14 days, which could prove expensive for many people.

It’s a risk I’m willing to take.
 
Interesting you won’t cancel you holidays

I have a honeymoon booked on an Indonesian island in October... Via Singapore. The only way I'm not going is if the flights are entirely cancelled.
 
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What have we become in this country, not the first disease we have ever faced.
Just get on and go about your business, odds against getting it are extremely high and even then its not that lethal for most adults.
 
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