The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Uncle Fester said:
More than 50,000 deaths globally due to COVID-19.
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Maybe .......... I'd like to see some verification of the Chinese figures.

CASES PER MILLION PEOPLE
Italy 1906
Germany 972
France 883
UK 508
China 59

There are lies. damned lies and statistics.
 
Marc said:
Thank you. I had no idea the government loaned money to the NHS. Seems strange to me given that the NHS is government funded.
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My guess, and it's only a guess is that its to do with "balancing" the Governments books. A loan with repayments and interest is a Government asset. Giving the NHS more money is additional Government expenditure. Possibly important when the Government tries to borrow money.
 
Question are the UK using different criteria to everyone else for closed cases of coronavirus because if not it's a bit worrying. The green line is the recovery rate and the orange line is the death rate.

----------------------------UK------------------------------------------------- ITALY---------------------------------------------GERMANY.

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Well they are not testing me like this,the nurse could pass the swab and allow you to put it in the container after, she does not have to come this close then put a hand and arm that close maybe touching your face,did she change the PPE before the next one

Look around 2.min 55

 
I see that Boots and Amazon have been described as ‘commercial partners’ by the government with regard to the proposed testing.

I know as a matter of fact that Boots staff (and this includes normal retail staff not just pharmacy employees) have been asked to volunteer their services for this endeavour.

I can’t see that it is right to use unpaid staff if they’re making a profit out of this. Unless of course, it’s so that they have no liability if the staff become infected?

Or have I totally misunderstood the meaning of ‘commercial partner’ ?
 
Marc said:
Thank you. I had no idea the government loaned money to the NHS. Seems strange to me given that the NHS is government funded.
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It is, by a loan every year :-/ Been like this since hospitals started to be called "Trusts" about 1993 or so.
 
Uncle Fester said:
I see that Boots and Amazon have been described as ‘commercial partners’ by the government with regard to the proposed testing.

I know as a matter of fact that Boots staff (and this includes normal retail staff not just pharmacy employees) have been asked to volunteer their services for this endeavour.

I can’t see that it is right to use unpaid staff if they’re making a profit out of this. Unless of course, it’s so that they have no liability if the staff become infected?

Or have I totally misunderstood the meaning of ‘commercial partner’ ?
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In the context 'volunteer' might simply mean 'be willing to help them implement testing as a part of their job', rather than work unpaid. In the past Boots have tried to implement various screening tests as a part of their service, and I should think this would not be so different.
 
ancient_mariner said:
In the context 'volunteer' might simply mean 'be willing to help them implement testing as a part of their job', rather than work unpaid. In the past Boots have tried to implement various screening tests as a part of their service, and I should think this would not be so different.
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No, this is to do the tests i.e. actually performing the swabbing . They were told that they would be shown how to do the swab and would be provided with PPE. These are staff who are currently ‘furloughed’ from their normal work.
 
sphexx said:
In my childhood I used to say I was an agnostic but I found people were saying “oh, so you don’t know what to believe?” or similar insulting remarks. So I decided atheist was the the correct description, after all there are lots of thing I “believe“ don’t exist but I don’t go around saying I’m not sure about them. I also quite like “freethinker” which used to be a common term :)
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I don't know if you're aware,Richard that there is a magazine called Freethinker.

This is dated today and has interesting articles. I see in one of the articles that evangelical preachers in the US are ignoring lockdown. To many over there just don’t get it .

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/
 
JohnC6 said:
I don't know if you're aware,Richard that there is a magazine called Freethinker.

This is dated today and has interesting articles. I see in one of the articles that evangelical preachers in the US are ignoring lockdown. To many over there just don’t get it .

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/
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No, John, didn’t know, but I’ve read a lot of those sort of US ‘calls to prayer’ in Politico, which AFAIK is Republican in politics.
 
Uncle Fester said:
No, this is to do the tests i.e. actually performing the swabbing . They were told that they would be shown how to do the swab and would be provided with PPE. These are staff who are currently ‘furloughed’ from their normal work.
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It could still mean they could ask their employees if they wish to return to work to carry out the tests, rather than not giving them a choice and telling them to return to work to carry out the tests.
 
simon ess said:
Can't leave it alone, can you John.
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Sorry, Simon, but John is responding to what I wrote so you should blame me. However, I do think the way some religious groups have acted (sometimes unwittingly like in S Korea but sometimes wittingly) to exacerbate the CV problem is relevant. It’s not the majority of Christians or Moslems but definitely some and it is their religion that is implicated :(. Maybe the mainstream Churches etc should be a bit more active in condemning the fringes.

Unfortunately people of a religious persuasion always get uptight if their religion or practices are questioned yet it’s OK for them to go on attacking the non-religious. Fortunately we’ve stopped them burning us (and each other :() at the stake (though Daesh resurrected that for a time) but non-believers are still persecuted and discriminated against in various ways.
 
On tv this evening there was a programme on Trump and how he’s dealt with the Covid-19 from treating it as if it was ‘flu to his current more serious tone. I think what’s happened is that as the number of cases and death toll rises along with the 10million workers laid off in the last week with many more to come his team have come to realise that his attitude could come back to bite him. He’ll be blamed for not taking it seriously and that could lose him the election but as it stands an amazing 60% think he’s doing a good job. Jo Biden’s team have put together a collage of Trumps comments. They’re bad enough as they're seen as he makes them but taking them all and showing them one after the other is a powerful image.

A reporter went on a beach..maybe in Florida, I’m not sure,it was busy and one women said she knows it’s serious but isn’t concerned and a man said it was a hoax. There are many rough sleepers in tunnel walkways in sight of the White House. I don’t think lockdown is something Americans are comfortable with.

A day or so ago someone on here mentioned that in the US the purchase of guns has increased enormously and the gun store being filmed was very busy. Frightening to see the vast array of guns on display on the walls that were available for purchase. I also saw footage of about 6-8 men at a firing range wearing army fatigues and carrying out target practice with automatic guns that looked to me..not being familiar with models..the same as the ones that US soldiers in Afghanistan have. These men have a stockpile of provisions and were readying themselves should civil unrest take place and people hunt out food etc.

Governer Cuomo,NY is,by all accounts, doing a great job. I’ve seen him on tv press briefings/questions on CNN and he’s polar opposite to Trump in both delivery and gravitas.

Just coming in. Spain has hit a high of 950 deaths in one day today .. Catalonia,the wealthiest region,is at its limit. Germany is still taking patients from Spain and Italy.
 
sphexx said:
Sorry, Simon, but John is responding to what I wrote so you should blame me. However, I do think the way some religious groups have acted (sometimes unwittingly like in S Korea but sometimes wittingly) to exacerbate the CV problem is relevant. It’s not the majority of Christians or Moslems but definitely some and it is their religion that is implicated :(. Maybe the mainstream Churches etc should be a bit more active in condemning the fringes.

Unfortunately people of a religious persuasion always get uptight if their religion or practices are questioned yet it’s OK for them to go on attacking the non-religious. Fortunately we’ve stopped them burning us (and each other :() at the stake (though Daesh resurrected that for a time) but non-believers are still persecuted and discriminated against in various ways.
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Thanks, Richard..appreciated. (y)
 
mikew said:
Well they are not testing me like this,the nurse could pass the swab and allow you to put it in the container after, she does not have to come this close then put a hand and arm that close maybe touching your face,did she change the PPE before the next one

Look around 2.min 55

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Why would she need to change her PPE?
She does the swabbing so she is in control, giving you the swab means you have to hand it back to her. Also trying to get the swab back into the container is not that easy if someone else is holding it.
 
Interesting cause the feedback we are getting back from various USA suppliers is that it’s being taken very seriously in a number of states (California and kentucky for starters) with state mandated factory lockouts and more.
 
munch said:
Why would she need to change her PPE?
She does the swabbing so she is in control, giving you the swab means you have to hand it back to her. Also trying to get the swab back into the container is not that easy if someone else is holding it.
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PPE should always be changed between all patient interactions, standard infection control precautions!
 
nilagin said:
It could still mean they could ask their employees if they wish to return to work to carry out the tests, rather than not giving them a choice and telling them to return to work to carry out the tests.
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Eh? They’re furloughed, their status isn’t changing. They’ve been asked to ‘volunteer’ - they haven’t been asked to return to work and ‘volunteer’ for other duties. There is no ambiguity in what I wrote.
 
nilagin said:
I can remember several Indian and Chinese takeaways / restaurants in the Ilford, Manor Park areas of East London after the bodies of cats and dogs found hanging in kitchens. I believe it was triggered by the mysterious disappearance of a lot of pets.
Worryingly there has been a spree of dog thefts in Essex and Kent of late, wouldn't be surprised if the same in other areas of the country, but that could just be for dog fights.
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Haven't heard of a spate of dog disappearances here in Kent.
 
The first spurious prosecution under the new coronavirus laws gets thrown out. In brief, BTP saw a woman “loitering between platforms” and suspected her of a ticket offence. But the 'new' legisalation was used to prosecute her. She was found guilty and fined £660 on Monday.
More details here
 
0.014% of the human population. (I think. Correct me if I'm wrong)

I have an uneasy feeling that something, I've no idea what, isn't quite right somewhere.

I'm probably quite wrong.
 
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We have our head office in the States and a subsidiary in India, both are asking why the Company is going to such lengths to get us all working from home as they believe their lockdowns are going to be over in 2 weeks time. They are absolutely sure of this.
I wonder what will happen when the lockdowns get extended.
 
JohnC6 said:
I see in one of the articles that evangelical preachers in the US are ignoring lockdown.
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It seems to be a common problem with the deluded narcisists among us.

In completely unrelated news: Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are claimed to be considering leaving isolation while still infectious.

:thinking:
 
Uncle Fester said:
Eh? They’re furloughed, their status isn’t changing. They’ve been asked to ‘volunteer’ - they haven’t been asked to return to work and ‘volunteer’ for other duties. There is no ambiguity in what I wrote.
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Do you know for a fact they aren't going to be paid though? Or were you just told they had asked for volunteers?
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
In completely unrelated news: Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are claimed to be considering leaving isolation while still infectious.

:thinking:
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Claimed by whom?
 
arclight said:
Maybe .......... I'd like to see some verification of the Chinese figures.
.
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I think we all would, but we're dealing with particularly untrustworthy nasty beast that's attempted to play this down since the very start.
I seriously hope the rest of the world reconsiders its relationship with China once this is all over.
 
NeilA1975 said:
I think we all would, but we're dealing with particularly untrustworthy nasty beast that's attempted to play this down since the very start.
I seriously hope the rest of the world reconsiders its relationship with China once this is all over.
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While that may be ideal, the rest of the world knows it will need China to help stabilise the economy once this is over. China have already started to get production rolling again. Also with Brexit looming, I doubt the UK could afford to turn its back on such a powerful trading nation.
 
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NeilA1975 said:
I think we all would, but we're dealing with particularly untrustworthy nasty beast that's attempted to play this down since the very start.
I seriously hope the rest of the world reconsiders its relationship with China once this is all over.
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And the USA I think. Let me see, who does that leave ... there’s the EU of course but we don’t want to have anything to do with them, too close and foreigny. Australia, Aotearoa and Canada it is then :).
 
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NeilA1975 said:
I think we all would, but we're dealing with particularly untrustworthy nasty beast that's attempted to play this down since the very start.
I seriously hope the rest of the world reconsiders its relationship with China once this is all over.
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I think that there is no choice.
The cost of not having strategic industries located in the home country can be clearly seen. We have been left scrabbling about trying to obtain medical kit (and buying it from a country that is the source of corona and other viruses ). Given that China is set on expanding into any and all corners of the world (telecoms & nuclear power etc. in the UK - bonkers !) and that it is a totalitarian state with a disgraceful human rights record it is far from being a desirable contact.
 
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simon ess said:
Can't leave it alone, can you John.
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Simon..Richard has responded to you and I don't usually fail to respond to a post directed at me unless for good reason and I started a response to you then thought no point as Richard has covered it and you no doubt would see my appreciation for that BUT..try as I might I cannot delete it .I tried preview ,that didn't work..I assume that will go when I click on 'Post reply'. I turned the computer off and back on and it was still there like one of those burs on a plant that's got on your trouser leg. I unplugged the computer and waited 5 minutes..all to no avail so I turned in for the night.Needless to say it's still here this morning so I'll complete it. I was doomed so I'll have to post it. I could have deleted all of Richard's post apart from the first sentence but forgot I could have done that. I used to wonder how those posting did that. Quite easy, really.I've done it once before but as I say I forgot. However, I see a moderator has sorted it so thanks to whoever. I'm not too good with computers tbh and often don't realise what can be done.

So, please bear with me.It will clarify my position which hasn't been represented accurately due to the constraints of the subject of this thread.

'Can't leave it alone', you say. I suppose I can say that my first thoughts are 'yes'' and 'no'. Yes inasmuch as I didn't contribute to the posts that continued to address religion,there were a few.. and also I could have put a 'like' for the post by Andrew Flannigan who had read the link that LLP had posted re a Christians point of view re the virus..or rather as one on-the-ball contributor pointed out..the catholic pov but I didn't do so as it might be seen to be sniping from the sidelines. So that's the 'yes' aspect. The 'no' aspect..ie no, 'I can't help myself' is that whilst pointing out that religious organisations in various countries were holding services in contravention of official advice and possibly the law I included some comments about religion not in keeping with that main issue and with hindsight I can understand why Toni's(ancient-mariner) contribution was more, well, all about, who said what and when so, I'll give him some slack on that but I have to say that LLP's previous exhortations in various threads over time for us to pray (in any given situation being discussed )had been a slow-burning fuse with me. Yes, it's part of the language and not to be taken literally, granted but that was my issue...it's part of the language.

As I said at the top of this post I've felt very constrained in this thread because it's not about religion per se ..hence your plea ..that's what Hot Topics is for as someone recently told me ie. explained what Hot Topic meant..controversial not 'current' issues as I'd thought.The main point of this post is to highlight the distinction that isn't always appreciated when discussing religion and it's that often two issues conflate .First... is there a supernatural entity called God that is the architect of not only our planet and life on it but the Universe and all therin which can be discussed as science v faith. Secondly, organised religion with regard to it's nature, the modus operandi and it's this second aspect rather than the former that engenders so much hostility in me, especially towards catholicism but not just that denomination, in addition there are Evangelicals along with minor sects such as Jehovah Witnesses. I say minor, they have 8m members worldwide and growing. Just Google JWvictim.org. It's the children that concern me most with these organisation.To be honest the C of E is fairly benign in comparison. There is Islam of course with all it's own unpleasantries.I did open the link by LLP and read one quote and decided against reading the rest on the grounds that I was unable to respond. To address these issues in full the subject would have to be in Hot Topics and looking through the current page they are mostly regarding current issues.

One last point. re Richard's post. He pointed out to you that some religious organisations in the US and elsewhere in the world are failing to appreciate the seriousness of the situation re isolating and that the main stream denominations should rein them in...eg the South Korean sect but in relation to the US the Evangelists are now mainstream and that article in the Freethinker was about one of those churches.

On a lighter note can anyone tell me how to delete a half-written post prior to posting. ? :)
 
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