The younger, or more timid generation.

[Mr Badger]

I guess I must be lucky. My daughter has a first from UCL in Archaeology, a distinction in her masters on early pre-history and human origins, has been on archaeological excavations in Africa and Croatia to mention but a few and she's only 24. My youngest son has worked in China twice and travelled through much of East Asia. My oldest son worked in the Czech Republic and has traveled extensively. My other son, I've three in all, is an ammunition technician in the British army he's toured Afghanistan twice and Iraq once. So, all in all they all have mind and experiencing expanding lives. Oh, they also enjoy computer games

And contributing to climate change due to all the fuel that's been burned to repeatedly fly them all over the world? I imagine you must be thoroughly ashamed of their behaviour? Whatever would Greta say?

How I love the modern world and the freedom of being able to be offended on someone else's behalf.

 

[jonbeeza]

Just read through this whole thread and to be honest I haven’t got a clue whats It’s about , age,race,colour ,religion it’s all in there ...

I started it with the intention of looking at how the younger generation are handling things, especially with the current ongoing problems. I originally called the thread Snowflake generation, but it seems some saw it as racist. Wikipedia lists the term as derogatory. So I changed the title of the thread. But some keep going on about race etc when it s not about that.

I started the thread after a someone made a big deal of cutting her husband's hair. So it got me thinking how we managed, back in the day. So this thread is about how the younger generation cope with things today, as opposed to what us older folk had to manage with the very little that we had.

 

[jonbeeza]

Before the lockdown some friends could not get their kids to get out, and do things like visit the park etc. But now there is a lockdown on, a lot of the kids do want to get out to the park etc. youngsters will always do the opposite of what they should be doing. I think I was a bit rebellious in my younger days, I think most of us were if we are honest enough to admit it.

 

[jonbeeza]

Just been out for my brisk walk as part of my daily exercise, only stayed out for half an hour as it is trying to rain. Managed to sling the old camera and lens over my shoulder, got a photo or two, while observing safety rules. A good few people out walking, obviously exercising. No young people out, only older people who are obviously much more hardy. ( only joking of course. )

 

[jakeblu]

...... A good few people out walking, obviously exercising. No young people out, only older people who are obviously much more hardy. ( only joking of course. )

Apparently they're all inside playing computer games

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Apparently they're all inside playing computer games

While their elders are holding serious discourse through the medium of the internet...

 

[Birdy06]

I joined the village Facebook page a few weeks ago to see if anyone needed help during the lockdown. To be honest, I have never seen such moaning and whinging and it’s definitely not coming from the younger generation.

I’ve been doing work to the front of my house and have had a good view of the local comings and goings and what is very much evident is the amount of elderly folk constantly out and about in their cars! I often see the same cars several time a day. The younger ones tend to be walking dogs, going for a run/bike ride etc. What is so difficult about sitting it out for a while?

My son is at home and playing by the rules and doing university work. I haven’t heard him moan once.

I think the snowflake generation can and probably should be defined elsewhere to be honest.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

II think the snowflake generation can and probably should be defined elsewhere to be honest.

On the other hand, as Sherlock Holmes is reported to have mused: "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

 

[arclight]

Just read through this whole thread and to be honest I haven’t got a clue whats It’s about , age,race,colour ,religion it’s all in there . At 74 I grew up in the east end of London just after the war , my playgrounds were bombed out buildings , we wiped our arses on either slippery izal toilet paper or on the news of the world or evening standard . And had to go down three flights of stairs to the only khazi in the house , it was a nice area my dad kept a weapon in every room just in case ,a old cut down broomstick wrapped with leadsheet in one room ,a few heavy duty socks filled with lead in another and the inevitable double barrelled 410 shotgun in another .. it was the time when the local coppers patrolled the streets day and night on the beat and I was often told to F off to my own manor growing up . We had the first t.v in our turning and all my mum and dads friends and family came to see it it was in a massive cabinet with a 12inch black and white screen .
But we were a happy breed in them days ,we had fights and brawls but no one got seriously hurt let alone killed . We had discipline in the home and school and I still remember the cane that brought us back to reality . ..
kids today in all honesty aint got a clue

A great many threads start off about one thing and expand into every damned thing.

 

[AZ6]

I originally called the thread Snowflake generation, but it seems some saw it as racist. Wikipedia lists the term as derogatory. So I changed the title of the thread. But some keep going on about race etc when it s not about that.

No; nobody considered 'snowflake' to be at all 'racist'. I introduced the term 'gammon', in a silly tongue in cheek post. One poster decided to consider 'gammon' a racist term. They made some fair arguments, but I, and others, argued that it isn't. Certainly not in it's original context.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...-charles-dickens-invented-concept-gammon-1838

Each generation likes to think of itself as 'the' righteous generation; all those before and after, are wrong. I actually think the thread title is more offensive to younger people, now. 'More timid'? As for how 'tough' people are; much is said by older generations, about how 'soft' younger people are. I think this has been said pretty much throughout history tbh. you hear older folk banging on like the Four Yorkshiremen; 'ee, in my day, we had to fight a war before breakfast, then work 24 hours down't pit'. Etc, etc, etc...

Just read through this whole thread and to be honest I haven’t got a clue whats It’s about , age,race,colour ,religion it’s all in there . At 74 I grew up in the east end of London just after the war , my playgrounds were bombed out buildings , we wiped our arses on either slippery izal toilet paper or on the news of the world or evening standard . And had to go down three flights of stairs to the only khazi in the house , it was a nice area my dad kept a weapon in every room just in case ,a old cut down broomstick wrapped with leadsheet in one room ,a few heavy duty socks filled with lead in another and the inevitable double barrelled 410 shotgun in another .. it was the time when the local coppers patrolled the streets day and night on the beat and I was often told to F off to my own manor growing up . We had the first t.v in our turning and all my mum and dads friends and family came to see it it was in a massive cabinet with a 12inch black and white screen .
But we were a happy breed in them days ,we had fights and brawls but no one got seriously hurt let alone killed . We had discipline in the home and school and I still remember the cane that brought us back to reality . ..
kids today in all honesty aint got a clue

What 'aint (they) got a clue' about? I grew up on a rough council estate in the East End, it wasn't a 'nice area'. That same area today sees stabbings, violence, domestic abuse, rape, human trafficking, rampant drug addiction and all sorts of assorted criminal activity. I think you haven't a clue about what kids endure today. You're no 'harder' than them, cos you had to go down 3 flights of stairs to the toilet. And that's what it's about; as people age, they feel their 'power' slipping away. So they try to imagine themselves as having been 'tough'. My mum still bangs on about rationing ffs. Forgets the 60 odd intervening years, many of which she spent in relative lower middle class comfort. If there were a war today, and young people had to go and fight, no choice, we'd not suffer any worse than in any other era. Humans have tremendous resilience; I've met people who've fled actual wars, famine, persecution and torture. s*** is still going on. Young people are as tough as they ever have been. And this younger lot; they'll have to be tougher than any of us, if our society continues along it's slide into decay.

Give 'em a break; they'll be wiping your arse for you, one day. Hopefully though, it won't be with Izal Medicated...

 

[Birdy06]

On the other hand, as Sherlock Holmes is reported to have mused: "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

Since when have facts and evidence mattered in recent times?

 

[Cobra]

Bloody greenie.

Oi! watch it you

Since when have facts and evidence mattered in recent times?

On any forum discussion here or elsewhere

Mod hat on...
There seems to be a lot of referrals to racism in this thread.
I'm not quite sure how or why the thread morphed into that.
But it seems to be a million miles away from the intended subject / discussion.
Having said that it the thread does seemed to have mostly crawled back on topic.
That's good
Please continue in the same vein

 

[AZ6]

Oi! watch it you


On any forum discussion here or elsewhere

Mod hat on...
There seems to be a lot of referrals to racism in this thread.
I'm not quite sure how or why the thread morphed into that.
But it seems to be a million miles away from the intended subject / discussion.
Having said that it the thread does seemed to have mostly crawled back on topic.
That's good
Please continue in the same vein

The term 'snowflake' as used in the original thread title (well, one of them, there's been a few changes...) refers to (mainly) young people who are 'easily offended' by others using language and behaviour that has become less acceptable in our ever evolving society. One key aspect of this is how 'snowflakes' object to the use of racist language and behaviour, in others. Essentially, it's really about how people who are more enlightened and 'with it' (tends to be the younger members of society who are more adaptable to change and new ways of thinking), challenge those who aren't. That's what it's really about.

Racism is a big part of all of this relatively recent labelling of certain groups, by others, often using pejorative terms. The term 'snowflake' was popularised amongst the hard and far-right, particularly in the US, because they didn't like their racist narrow minded views being challenged. It's a backlash, if you like, against what they see as a rising tide of 'political correctness' against their backward, socially unprogressive ideals. IE; racist fascist c***s don't like being called names, so they invent one of their own, to use back at their critics and 'enemies'. The term has become somewhat diluted, to the point where it can be used in a light hearted manner, between friends and family members even. Someone might label me a 'snowflake'; tbh, it's a label I'll wear with pride. Backatcha.

I brought up the term 'gammon' as an example of another such 'label'. People don't like being labelled, do they? And I really don't think it's a 'million miles' from the discussion, to discuss racism (I wasn't the one who actually brought up the subject of racism, btw, but I'm more than happy to discuss it). Quite the opposite in fact. It's bang on topic. I, personally, don't think it's at all positive and progressive to pussyfoot around the sensibilities of those who get uncomfortable around such topics. These issues are the ones affecting our world right now, and we need to address them openly and honestly. End of. And if that upsets some people, well, y'know... [Wanders off to think up a term for those who are fragile and melt under the heat of scrutiny]

 

[Cobra]

The term 'snowflake' as used in the original thread title (well, one of them, there's been a few changes...) refers to (mainly) young people who are 'easily offended' by others using language

I covered that when I said

The term has been used for years, by people of all ages... to describe "sensitive little souls" ( the forerunner of Snowflake) Its only more recently has "Generation" been added.
So as above anyone of any generation can be a snowflake ...

These issues are the ones affecting our world right now, and we need to address them openly and honestly. End of. And if that upsets some people, well, y'know...

I've had a few private complaints as to the direction this particular thread is heading... and I take their point too.

It's ( racism) been done to death on here in the past, but feel free to start your own thread on it,
fill your boots

And if that upsets some people, well, y'know...

No? please enlighten me?

 

[AZ6]

I've had a few private complaints as to the direction this particular thread is heading... and I take their point too.

So you don't think open discussion is valid?

What direction would you like the thread to go in? A nice, safe, cosy, 'sociably acceptable' one? Some pointers might be helpful, y'know. Just so's we all know what we can, and cannot discuss.

 

[Cobra]

So you don't think open discussion is valid?

What direction would you like the thread to go in? A nice, safe, cosy, 'sociably acceptable' one? Some pointers might be helpful, y'know. Just so's we all know what we can, and cannot discuss.

I note you are a recent member, so you would have missed all the discussions / threads, threads that morph into racist discussions ie what is or what is not, or what just amounts to name calling.
As I said you are free to start your own thread, however 99% of them always end badly one way or another though ...
And that is the reason for my recent post...

 

[AZ6]

I note you are a recent member, so you would have missed all the discussions / threads, threads that morph into racist discussions ie what is or what is not, or what just amounts to name calling.
As I said you are free to start your own thread, however 99% of them always end badly one way or another though ...
And that is the reason for my recent post...

I thought the discussion so far was pretty tame tbh. Though, having been literally face to face with actual nazi scum, screaming all kinds of abuse at me, I suppose my own 'threshold' might be somewhat higher than others'.

So ok then; the thread was started as a 'light hearted' critique of younger people. And how they 'struggle' to cope with things. Let's take this in another direction then.

Something that must be considered, is that young people are growing up in a society where emotional openness is seen as a positive thing, whereas many older folk might feel they need to suppress their feelings more; certainly, it wasn't the 'done thing' to show emotion so much, when I was a youngster. Things have changed. so, young people expressing distaste at the thoughts and behaviours of older generations, isn't the 'shut up and just get on with it' kind of mindset many people have had to live with. Isn't it better that people are more open, emotionally, than bottling things up?

Also; 'answering back' to your elders isn't as taboo as it once was. Maybe older folk don't like that they can be challenged, in a way they couldn't with their parents etc.

But getting back to the core of this, which is a perception that younger people are 'soft' or timid; where does that come from? Is it true? Not at all. Youngsters might not have to walk down 3 flights of stairs to use the toilet, but there are the same dangers and risks that everyone has to face, they just look different. Work and life stresses are different; the housing crisis puts enormous pressure on young people, something that many of those who paid off their mortgages in the 90s, simply can't relate to. Increasing job insecurity, a rise in extremism of all kinds, and a rapidly more polarised society, are things youngsters have to deal with in a way their forebears often didn't. I know a lot of young people, in fact some of our best friends are half our age or younger, and we're hardly elderly!

I think this is much more about older people losing touch with the pace of change. You've settled into your comfy slippers, and expect the world to slow down.... :sleep:

 

[Cobra]

You've settled into your comfy slippers, and expect the world to slow down....

 

[jonbeeza]

I joined the village Facebook page a few weeks ago to see if anyone needed help during the lockdown. To be honest, I have never seen such moaning and whinging and it’s definitely not coming from the younger generation.

I do have to admit, I can be a right grumpy so and so. I remember watching the TV series, one foot in the grave. Watching Victor Meldrew, was like watching myself.

 

[jonbeeza]

I know some of us older folk can be right pains, and always feel we should be put first. Our youngsters are just as important, and in some ways possibly more so, as they are the ones who are going to look after us as we get even older and more demanding. So it us down to us older folk, to set a good example to our youngsters.

I was in a queue the other day waiting to enter a shop, an old lady possibly even older than me, shoved me in the back and said "come on move up". I tried explain to her, the need to keep two metres apart. She was obviously hard of hearing, as she shoved her face close to mine and shouted "what what". I just nodded and hoped the queue would go down quickly, and wondered was I just like her.

 

[tijuana taxi]

I know some of us older folk can be right pains, and always feel we should be put first. Our youngsters are just as important, and in some ways possibly more so, as they are the ones who are going to look after us as we get even older and more demanding. So it us down to us older folk, to set a good example to our youngsters.

I was in a queue the other day waiting to enter a shop, an old lady possibly even older than me, shoved me in the back and said "come on move up". I tried explain to her, the need to keep two metres apart. She was obviously hard of hearing, as she shoved her face close to mine and shouted "what what". I just nodded and hoped the queue would go down quickly, and wondered was I just like her.

That is a very honest statement, have to say the older generation haven't covered their selves in glory recently.
I cannot understand the constant sniping at the younger generation especially as the older people are generally well off.
Youngsters have seen the perceived opportunities that the EU provided denied them.
Now they are being asked to show sympathy for those who in general sought those changes.
Add to that the austerity measures that have largely seen the old protected and you begin to understand the animosity.
I'm no youngster, but have to say I don't find much in common with the older people I encounter.

 

[Cockney]

That is a very honest statement, have to say the older generation haven't covered their selves in glory recently.
I cannot understand the constant sniping at the younger generation especially as the older people are generally well off.
Youngsters have seen the perceived opportunities that the EU provided denied them.
Now they are being asked to show sympathy for those who in general sought those changes.
Add to that the austerity measures that have largely seen the old protected and you begin to understand the animosity.
I'm no youngster, but have to say I don't find much in common with the older people I encounter.

I could show you millions of older people not "generally well off".

 

[tijuana taxi]

I could show you millions of older people not "generally well off".

A very bold claim, not quite sure how though

 

[Cockney]

A very bold claim, not quite sure how though

It's quite easy. Take your blinkers off and walk around with your eyes open.

 

[Birdy06]

I could show you millions of older people not "generally well off".

Of course. But I guess that apart from being temporarily restricted with movement and travel, not a lot has changed day-to-day for the elderly. Pensions are still being paid etc. I would hope most are coping with help from friends and neighbours with shopping too.

Many younger people are currently having to find money for mortgage/rent payments, bills etc having had their entire income disappear overnight with little to no safety net.

 

[AZ6]

I could show you millions of older people not "generally well off".

Ok then; there are currently 4.2 million children in the UK, who live in relative poverty.

 

[Cockney]

Of course. But I guess that apart from being temporarily restricted with movement and travel, not a lot has changed day-to-day for the elderly. Pensions are still being paid etc. I would hope most are coping with help from friends and neighbours with shopping too.

Many younger people are currently having to find money for mortgage/rent payments, bills etc having had their entire income disappear overnight with little to no safety net.

I agree, the younger people must be finding it very difficult.
I just dont like sweeping statements suggesting older people are generally well off. Thats a different scenario entirely.

 

[Cockney]

Ok then; there are currently 4.2 million children in the UK, who live in relative poverty.

Your point?

 

[Gremlin]

Many younger people are currently having to find money for mortgage/rent payments, bills etc having had their entire income disappear overnight with little to no safety net.

They have a safety net, it's called Bank of Mum and Dad, or in my case Bank of Mum
My kids know that if things get tough I am here to help them

 

[tijuana taxi]

It's quite easy. Take your blinkers off and walk around with your eyes open.

I do not see these impoverished millions, blinkered or otherwise.
In fact it has been shown the over 60's are as a whole doing quite well in comparison to other age groups.
Where are you getting your figures from?

 

[Gremlin]

In fact it has been shown the over 60's areas a whole doing quite well in comparison to other age groups.

But do you not agree that for many it's down to working hard and making provisions for old age
basic state pension won't pay for every thing

 

[Birdy06]

I agree, the younger people must be finding it very difficult.
I just dont like sweeping statements suggesting older people are generally well off. Thats a different scenario entirely.

That’s the problem with generalisations. Just like this weird and constant assertion that the younger generation are timid, feckless snowflakes. A narrative that comes from the worse of the daily papers and lapped up by folk with nowt better to believe.

 

[tijuana taxi]

But go you not agree that for many it's down to working hard and making provisions for old age
basic state pension won't pay for every thing

Benefitting from generous final salary pensions helps too.
Something that future generations won't enjoy along with settled employment and afordable housing.
When I left school getting a job wasn't a problem, bit different today

 

[Birdy06]

They have a safety net, it's called Bank of Mum and Dad, or in my case Bank of Mum
My kids know that if things get tough I am here to help them

Not all of them. That’s just another generalisation. It also reinforces the idea that if the older generations can afford to bail out their offspring by paying their rent/mortgages/bills then the older generation are generally better off.

 

[Cockney]

I do not see these impoverished millions, blinkered or otherwise.
In fact it has been shown the over 60's are as a whole doing quite well in comparison to other age groups.
Where are you getting your figures from?

There are figures for those in poverty, about 11%. I cant find figures for "well off".

 

[tijuana taxi]

There are figures for those in poverty, about 11%. I cant find figures for "well off".

So by your figures we assume the very rich account for about the same figure roughly 75% are doing alright.
Not exactly milions is it, damn sight more working families struggling and children too
No triple lock for anybody else in the recent hard times, cruise ships banged out with impoverished pensioners.

 

[Cockney]

So by your figures we assume the very rich account for about the same figure roughly 75% are doing alright.
Not exactly milions is it, damn sight more working families struggling and children too
No triple lock for anybody else in the recent hard times, cruise ships banged out with impoverished pensioners.

You didn't mention impoverished or struggling. You said well off. Where is this evidence that older folks are "generally well off"?

 

[tijuana taxi]

You didn't mention impoverished or struggling. You said well off. Where is this evidence that older folks are "generally well off"?

How about a quote or two from that pensioners friend the Daily Excess.
74% of over 65's own their house, I would say that describes generally well off
The Department for Work and Pension figures put 51 per cent of pensioners in the top of half of the population by overall income

 

[Cockney]

How about a quote or two from that pensioners friend the Daily Excess.
74% of over 65's own their house, I would say that describes generally well off
The Department for Work and Pension figures put 51 per cent of pensioners in the top of half of the population by overall income

61% of 35 to 44 year olds own their own home.
So generally 35 to 40 year olds are "well off"? Really?

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

A very bold claim, not quite sure how though

It's not easy to define poverty in absolute terms but I was able to glean the following figures for the number of Britons described as living in poverty...

• There are 12.5 million children (19% of the population) of whom 4.8 million or 7.3% of the population are classed as living in poverty.
• There are 41.4 million working age adults (62.7% of the population) of whom 8.3 million or 12.6% of the population are classed as living in poverty.
• There are 11.3 million pensioners (18.3% of the population) of whom 1.3 million or 2% of the population are classed as living in poverty.

...so it is true that pensioner poverty is far lower than other groups while poverty is worst among those of children.

In my opinion this is an outrage and it is time to replace the "welfare state" savaged by various governments with a national income for every adult and do away with the concept of tax allowances which drain the exchequer to the detriment of the majority.

Sources: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/august2019
https://fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/