B&W Three from Chamonix

StewartR

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I love #3, I like #2, but #1 really doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. The mountains are gorgeous and the texture of the rock is lovely, but I feel it needs more contrast. I think you ought to be able to do that without ruining it.
 
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Ranger Smith
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I love #3, I like #2, but #1 really doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. The mountains are gorgeous and the texture of the rock is lovely, but I feel it needs more contrast. I think you ought to be able to do that without ruining it.
It's the resize I think - it seems better on the big screen but the original RAW is very very washed out due to the soft lighting and haze. It's had a lot done to it. The one I am happiest with is 2.
 
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Great set Steve, but the third wins for me.
Don't change a thing. Just print it. :)
 
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Mono can be so hard to judge. My faves are 1 and 3, though I might have lifted the white point on 1 a little. Love the jagged shapes of 3 especially.
 

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all brilliant, I think #3 is my fav, between that and #2 its very close but I just keep being drawn to 3 and looking at that more.
 
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Thanks all - I thoroughly enjoyed my time in Chamonix and prepare for many more threads from my 3 days there. I am already counting back to when I go back :D

What's scary about 3 is I took this exact composition in March 2016 - I love that group of 3 peaks. It had more snow on it but the plus was I could stay for sunset and stay in the nearby refuge. In March I had to take the cable car down as the path was too deep with snow to walk it and the refuge was shut.
 
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No 3 is the best. I am sure it looks far far better as a large print to make that huge impression. These sizes don't do justice to images like that.

2 - would be great but there is just too much cloud on the left, which I think is quite an important part of the mountain.

1. Just more contrast and clarity as it appears a little washed out. Mono always needs far more contrast.
 
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No 3 is the best. I am sure it looks far far better as a large print to make that huge impression. These sizes don't do justice to images like that.

2 - would be great but there is just too much cloud on the left, which I think is quite an important part of the mountain.

1. Just more contrast and clarity as it appears a little washed out. Mono always needs far more contrast.
See in the big screen these all look better = even the first. I've processed them on the big screen where the lack of contrast is less of an issue as it's seen over a much much bigger area. If you look carefully at the bottom of one, then compare to the rest of the image you can see a) its clearer - it's closer b) it's pretty dark down there relative to the rest of the image. Any more contrast and it would look a bit silly down at the bottom )just above the Montenevers station) The reason it's quite so washed looking is the haze although I would concede up top it's all midtone. I've been a few times (not as often as you) but never seen it as hazy as this before. It did die down in the late evenings and early mornings but for 3 days the haze was a constant reminder that it should have been clearer.

Re 2 = yes aiguille du Midi is behind that along with all the cable car stations, pylons and mess at the top. The cloud saves a lot of cloning time as it hides the mess they made. Three is my favourite composition, I have one just like it from March but with more snow. I'd have liked less hazy and more high level cloud tbh but there's always another time.
 
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I love the first, it has that 3d quality that is actually quite hard to achieve when working with a 2d format that is photography.

It has layers too it and is really well composed, again something which is not always easy with telephoto.

Processing wise if it was mine it would be more contrasty, but not a lot - just to brighten the whites of the snow (not the sky) so it looks cleaner, but I don't know if that is right or not. Take your time and look at it and the detail is all there and maybe it is because the contrast is almost reducing the further into the scene you get that it achieves that layered look I can see.
 
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I love the first, it has that 3d quality that is actually quite hard to achieve when working with a 2d format that is photography.

It has layers too it and is really well composed, again something which is not always easy with telephoto.

Processing wise if it was mine it would be more contrasty, but not a lot - just to brighten the whites of the snow (not the sky) so it looks cleaner, but I don't know if that is right or not. Take your time and look at it and the detail is all there and maybe it is because the contrast is almost reducing the further into the scene you get that it achieves that layered look I can see.
Thanks - it was carefully composed to be crop the hotel at the front of the Montenevers hotel (the Vallee Blanche has a lot of man made crap in it) that has to be carefully cloned out or composed out. Position wise you want to be near La Flegere. On the second day I walked over to Cheserys Lake and Lac Blanc and that takes you direction wise closer to Switzerland. The angle into the Glacier isn't as good, nor is the angle to take the final shot.The time to do this shot is probably the skiing season when the Glacier has snow in it. It's a dirty grey colour and I know this shot would rock in the March, but you won't get the late night as the refuges are shut and the path down waist deep in snow so it's a cable car job up and down. I walked back down, it's a doddle in the dry. For the sake of a tenner I took the car up as the walk to Lac Blanc is enough exercise for a day.

Re 1 There is a tiny bit in the frame where the sun hits a bit of snow - the bulk of the snow in this shot is in shadow and thus shouldn't be white. There is a tiny bit catching the diffused sunlight and at 100% you can just see the detail beginning to fall off towards white. At the bottom parts of the tree's go to black so I feel there is enough contrast - but I am not a fan of lots of contrast in pictures and do process with less than most. I've tried adding more but it doesn't work for me so much.

The last - look a the top of the peak on the right, it's almost clipping as it's in the sun (but there is a tiny bit of detail left). I hate blown out stuff more than anything and I try and keep my whites just off clipping with snow.
 
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Thanks - it was carefully composed to be crop the hotel at the front of the Montenevers hotel (the Vallee Blanche has a lot of man made crap in it) that has to be carefully cloned out or composed out. Position wise you want to be near La Flegere. On the second day I walked over to Cheserys Lake and Lac Blanc and that takes you direction wise closer to Switzerland. The angle into the Glacier isn't as good, nor is the angle to take the final shot.

Re 1 There is a tiny bit in the frame where the sun hits a bit of snow - the bulk of the snow in this shot is in shadow and thus shouldn't be white. There is a tiny bit catching the diffused sunlight and at 100% you can just see the detail beginning to fall off towards white. At the bottom parts of the tree's go to black so I feel there is enough contrast - but I am not a fan of lots of contrast in pictures and do process with less than most. I've tried adding more but it doesn't work for me so much.

The last - look a the top of the peak on the right, it's almost clipping as it's in the sun (but there is a tiny bit of detail left). I hate blown out stuff more than anything and I try and keep my whites just off clipping with snow.
You don't need to justify it to me. I think in general there are some things that can be critiqued objectively. Or factually so to put it, and others subjectively. When we get into contrast I think that is subjective, a picture does not have to have a strong black and white point.

The viewer needs to slow down and look at it in isolation, our eyes get messed up by flicking through stuff on social media you really should be wearing welding goggles to look at that we don't then appreciate subtle uses of colour or contrast etc.

If this was the work of a fine art film photographer working out of Yosemite it would be praised for it!
 
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You don't need to justify it to me. I think in general there are some things that can be critiqued objectively. Or factually so to put it, and others subjectively. When we get into contrast I think that is subjective, a picture does not have to have a strong black and white point.

The viewer needs to slow down and look at it in isolation, our eyes get messed up by flicking through stuff on social media you really should be wearing welding goggles to look at that we don't then appreciate subtle uses of colour or contrast etc.

If this was the work of a fine art film photographer working out of Yosemite it would be praised for it!
I like subtle more than in yer face. I posted the original for reference sake.
 
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I can't remember who it was, but one landscape photographer in a processing video I was watching once spoke about fading with a gradient was the amount of sharpening you apply to a scene as it goes from foreground to background to help with depth and what the eye would see. You have kind of achieved this here, not through sharpness because it is all pin and at this focal length I think needs to be. But with contrast, and the original shows that, the processed shot accentuates it and the layers in the scene.
 
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I can't remember who it was, but one landscape photographer in a processing video I was watching once spoke about fading with a gradient was the amount of sharpening you apply to a scene as it goes from foreground to background to help with depth and what the eye would see. You have kind of achieved this here, not through sharpness because it is all pin and at this focal length I think needs to be. But with contrast, and the original shows that, the processed shot accentuates it and the layers in the scene.
It is all pin, it's all in the distance so it's an easy job :D and see that 2.8 version of the 70-200 - find focus everytime and the live view is so good on the D810 you can check it and manually refocus if you think it is out. It's sharp side to side to, unlike the F4 version which really was a steaming pile of dog droppings.
 
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It is all pin, it's all in the distance so it's an easy job :D and see that 2.8 version of the 70-200 - find focus everytime and the live view is so good on the D810 you can check it and manually refocus if you think it is out. It's sharp side to side to, unlike the F4 version which really was a steaming pile of dog droppings.
You really don't like the f/4.0? I have it and whilst I've not checked it too carefully as it is just a focal length I had to own when I switched to Nikon I thought it was alright...
 
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You really don't like the f/4.0? I have it and whilst I've not checked it too carefully as it is just a focal length I had to own when I switched to Nikon I thought it was alright...
It's a piece of crap. Mine was, there is a reason the 2.8e costs £2300 and the other about half that. It's not just the extra stop. Center sharpness is much of a likeness stopped down but mine was like OOF at the edge, sharp in the middle and this was at F10. At F4 it was laughably bad. The 2.8 is sharp all over at F3.5. It's just so much better it's unreal.
 
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That's one of those things that doesn't exactly help you, but probably not as bad as rain or a f***ed main car...
I was over for 4 weeks almost and it rained like once. If you think our summer was good, their one was in another level. The only downer was the waterfalls looked a bit sorry for themselves and it was a bit hazy but what a dream.

I've been there with breakdowns abroad, not fun - that was last years fun. The Lexus didn't miss a beat.
 

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our summer was good,
I would say it wasn't that good. Not a cloud, everything brown and very hazy. Lakes and reservoirs are still way down everywhere. No surprise I got exceptionally little done this summer. Let's hope some snow (and sunshine!) is not too far away now!.
 
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I would say it wasn't that good. Not a cloud, everything brown and very hazy. Lakes and reservoirs are still way down everywhere. No surprise I got exceptionally little done this summer. Let's hope some snow (and sunshine!) is not too far away now!.
It was mega here, well a few days got some great stuff done. Best summer I can recall actually. There is the lightest of dusting in Glencoe but not enough to get enthusiastic about. The tops of the mountain on the webcam look dirty grey.

https://www.glencoemountain.co.uk/webcams/#prettyPhoto

I am up doing editing but tomorrow is a still wind day so either Glencoe or Skye for some reflections or some falls without the folliage blowing around. Clocks go back so got a few hours left before I have to leave the house if doing Skye. Glencoe wins for ease, but sunday means potential dog walker hell. Skye is quieter this time but it's another hour and a bit in the car but the spot I have in my minds eye will be dog walker free.
 
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It was mega here, well a few days got some great stuff done. Best summer I can recall actually. There is the lightest of dusting in Glencoe but not enough to get enthusiastic about. The tops of the mountain on the webcam look dirty grey.

https://www.glencoemountain.co.uk/webcams/#prettyPhoto

I am up doing editing but tomorrow is a still wind day so either Glencoe or Skye for some reflections or some falls without the folliage blowing around. Clocks go back so got a few hours left before I have to leave the house if doing Skye. Glencoe wins for ease, but sunday means potential dog walker hell. Skye is quieter this time but it's another hour and a bit in the car but the spot I have in my minds eye will be dog walker free.
I was going to go up north this weekend but not even that could work. EOS needs new strut top mount (delivered from Merkel today) and Passat likely DPF endgame territory. Just s***. So will go with an open top convertible to enjoy the snow when and if we get a good sunny spell again. Winter tyres already fitted back in July. Don't ask me why.
 
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I was going to go up north this weekend but not even that could work. EOS needs new strut top mount (delivered from Merkel today) and Passat likely DPF endgame territory. Just s***. So will go with an open top convertible to enjoy the snow when and if we get a good sunny spell again. Winter tyres already fitted back in July. Don't ask me why.
If you want snow you are about 3 weeks eager, later November to March is your best bet.
P.S. Looking at your flickr I think I easily prefer the colour versions of no 3.
Truth be told so do I but I am totally confident in the way I have them done so didn't post them for CC - they will end up on here at some stage but the B&Ws I am less confident with as I rarely do them. I am not that big on snow, but reckon the one I got of these was in March but then you cannot walk down in the dark as the path is too deep with snow and the refuge isn't shut. How to get this shot, with snow at sunset. I will look into it or just take a decent tent and camp out for it. I hoped for good clouds though to get that light with the sky going red. Never happened but I go to Chamomix every year. This time Aiguille du Midi was shut which was disappointing.
 

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If you want snow you are about 3 weeks eager, later November to March is your best bet.

Truth be told so do I but I am totally confident in the way I have them done so didn't post them for CC - they will end up on here at some stage but the B&Ws I am less confident with as I rarely do them. I am not that big on snow, but reckon the one I got of these was in March but then you cannot walk down in the dark as the path is too deep with snow and the refuge isn't shut. How to get this shot, with snow at sunset. I will look into it or just take a decent tent and camp out for it. I hoped for good clouds though to get that light with the sky going red. Never happened but I go to Chamomix every year. This time Aiguille du Midi was shut which was disappointing.
Snow + autumnal colours still out is what you really want. I guess it doesn't happen here too often. Late november will be time to start thinking about Tenerife or other warm places.


I don't do too many BW shots either but from what I understand some shots have stronger colours and some shots are all about shape and texture. Sometimes you get a bit of both like here but that obviously requires very different editing to bring out either of these features. That's why I'm suggesting far more contrast in BW. It doesn't have to mean +50% on global contrast, maybe a few well tailored local adjustments. No 1 in particular has lots of space to move both left and right.
 
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Snow + autumnal colours still out is what you really want. I guess it doesn't happen here too often. Late november will be time to start thinking about Tenerife or other warm places.


I don't do too many BW shots either but from what I understand some shots have stronger colours and some shots are all about shape and texture. Sometimes you get a bit of both like here but that obviously requires very different editing to bring out either of these features. That's why I'm suggesting far more contrast in BW. It doesn't have to mean +50% on global contrast, maybe a few well tailored local adjustments. No 1 in particular has lots of space to move both left and right.
Do winter in the Alps, proper winter, not this grey misery rubbish here. British winters do nothing for me, Alpine ones I could work with but truth be told my landscape photography will dry up shortly and spring into life come May.

Time to bounce - Broadford it is, Loch Cill Chriosd, this will either work or will fail epically.
 
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