To catch a fox some background

[Stuart Philpott]

i'd been out early I have an unused railway line close to home and had been out early. i'm not long got back home and my darling went off to make a cuppa,as she got to our hall she ground to a stop backed up and when very close to me whispered there is a fox cub in the garden. I grabbed the camera/ lens between us we managed to open the door and a snagged a couple of frames. Here #s cub

cunin cub smj by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

We are rural surrounded by fields foxes do not come here in daylight, next door has dogs we have been here say 30years and this simply has never happened before, so this was really special,it also concerned me slightly as I worried why mum was risking her little ones in a place that to me they might be vunerable ie the dogs. . that evening low and behold mum turned up, she was a bit scatty so the only images I got were through the front door, the glass and the POV bothered me,but hey, no complaints so here's that one

_S2I2004 Entrance smj by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

That was 25th of may, after that we became aware that they were trying to come in to us ,but the noise of my neighbours was preventing it. There is a big old hedge that runs directly away from the house, they were using that to approach the properties and were being mobbed heavily by the local magpies, so we knew they were trying to come, but sadly we have only seen one here in daylight once since. We started to leave an outside light on so we could watch them at night. They came almost every night mum and up to 3 cubs,it seemed the most amazing chance to make images but how the hell does one do that at night?

We sat for ages each night behind the front door watching then , it was wonderful, they didn't seem bothered too mch by theoutside light,but we still couldn't see them terrible well, I'd set the camera up but it was a waste of time. I wondered how they might react to more light. So I cobbled up a quick makeshift shelter out of a compo bag some wire and gaffa tape and stuck a household table lamp under it.foxes were not bothered,slightly suspicious but not bothered. Around that time again I tried to make images and became very very aware my vixen is very very nervous, one press of shutter, means she left, mirror lock up meant she left. So I started to make horrible videos just as a sort of record for us to look at. I've never made video before.

So now i'm at the stage where Iknow I can lights really close to them i've got me proof of comcept ,so I started to read about lights. Call me soft but I don't want to use flash. . I have uttely no experience of lights lighting or flash I shootunder natural light and try to make the best of what we are given. I became very aware that my choice not to use flash was going to impact image making as I was made very aware early on by one of the lads here whom has most likely forgotton more about lights than I'l probably ever lean that this was gonna be tricky. the principal problem I was going to face would be lack of power. with LED continuous lighting flash would be a better choice from the togs perspective ,but wasn't an option for me.

I dug around my first worry was, rain, these lights had to be outside,so immediately I started to look for IP 87 ratings and the like. The only one I could find was made by a company called rotolight. They had various different products it seemed the little neo ii might work for me. I started to watch every you tube vid I could fiind ,where folks were making images with continuous lighting during that time I came across a video with a guy called jason Lanier using these lights in a graveyard no actualy covers on and the heavens had opened, his light were still working. so I decided those were the ones for me and started to look for a good price

Mean while it had become completely evident that no way in hell would my vixn let me make still images, So video was going to be my only option, so I also started to dig away at learning a tiny bit about how to make vids.
I've been sort of stuck here for months now as my lass is in the vunerable catgeory for C19, it was a worry spending money on lights a gamble but one I eventually took, I just could get past this fantastic chance and I have l;ittle work to I decided to throw myself at this as hard as I could I bought me lights from LCE as always outstanding service. There was a bit of a mix up with the product I bought...rotolight do various 3 light kits, the add was a bit vague. I rang before buying and made sure what I was buying was right, it wasn't so I had a chat with LCE and they sorted it all immediately, Ii just can't speak highly enough of them.

We put the lights out and in the first couple of nights I think they got over an inch of raiin. I'm impressed by their hardiness they have has gales torrential rain and haven't missed a beat. I carried on making video as best I could,they were,'t too bad , but they were being made through the glass of my front door and the POV was way too high...it started to drive me nuts. So I graduallyworked out a base design that would allow me to shoot down low and allow a viewing point above.

so my next move was to make a false or fake front door, I found some old ply cobbled it together cut a hole to stick lens through at the base and another higher up gaffa taped some perspex on the upper one and nicked an old dark green skirt off Shaz for the camera. I nailed the wide end of skirt to fake door poke lens though skirt and a couple of big elastic bands hold skirt tight to lens. The door is held in place with a series of wedges so I can pop it in the doorway and take it out in seconds. this was a bit of a throwaway shot if the dark ,they might simply be scared of it so I bodged it all up quick and started to use it that night.

I've taken a couple of quick snaps of the door just to give an idea of what I'm usiing as I say it aint pretty ,it just works and that is all I need

Here's your inside view, the scarfs green army scrim simply help stop mum seeing us and you can also see the skirt which me lens goes in.:

_S2I4619 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr



and the outside, ie what the foxes see :

_S2I4620 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr



Once we had that fake door in place things started to get interesting, first my front garden is small so the foxes are meters away ...day between 3 and 8. With only a bit of material between me and them they can hear every single move I make. Second this just reinforced how difficult making a still image was going to be. My vixen can be spooked by just the AF engaging on my DOii, honestly it's almost silent. so pressing a shutter was just impossible. I had to be there constantly so the mirror lock up as one enters live view was already up when a fox arrived,other wise they left. This was getting tough,but still doable, so we dug in kept going for I guess the best part of a month, me largely filming with a 100mm macro as they are so stupidly close


Guys this is getting big I'll post this then continue in a minute. hold off on the replies for me would ya , I want to get the next bit out. first

cheers

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Gradually in a situation like this one finds onself shooting more and more of exactly the same thing, so my thoughts turned to what else I could do to film some thing differnt. I saw a post in another thread and the penny dropped.................I needed water !! .

I'm a country boy i've also spent meny many years lookiing after birds, so over the years i've had to build some knowldge of foxes, i'm very aware of fox runs for example, so I know we have neem visited for a long tiime now by the always fresh run in the corner of a hedge. I think primarily they have been coming for the bird scraps, We get alot of brids here huge numbers at times alot of them goldies especially are messy feeders so I think that's the main thing that attracts, but also water. I bought one of those builder trays as a make shift reflection pool a while back , it's sat on pots and the birds use it for bathiing and drinking. What I hadn't realised is that the foxes use it too. I'd hidden the tray and pots behind our cherry tree so it was out of the way for making video as it looked so ugly but we were watching the fox drink, so I hatched a plan to hopefully get some footage of them drinking to add into the vid.

I leveled off the garden and bascally let the tray into the ground, then went around home snagging some old rough bits of turf to pop around the edges. since the day of the first sightings I'd decided to let the garden go even rougher so the footage might look a bit more natural, and it worked really well they were drinking from it next day or so.


Here's my rough ol pond come drinker come bird bath, ahh man as an aside you ought to have seen the baby blue tits wiith it on that first day so many knowing they wanted a bath but all scared to go in until one did, it was just so funny......any way me pond and incidentally pretty much all the garden where I make images of the family

_S2I4615 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

Back to lights in the above frame which is taken from inside my front doorway I have one light to the right two to the left at the moment set roughly like this,

_S2I4616 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_S2I4617 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr


Please remember I have never used lights or flash before this!! What I'm trying to do at the moment is basically put as much light on them as possible. You have to remember the only light is from the rotolights,so if I only have one then one side of my fox is going to be lit ok,but the other is going to be all but pitch black. So what I've tried t do is have two lights nearer to me one each side pointing inwards, this give me light both sides on a subject in front of me. The difficulty for me is that with the sun everywhere is lit evenly, but if my fox moves say 2 meter away from the lights then there will massively less light on it than a meter away . I think normally one would have one bright main light, then on the other side the other acts as fill and is less bright. So we get a gradul soft fall off in light across the subject. In my situation all lights are on max because simply the subject is not in a fixed spot so one minute the left light is the main one and next the right. The third light is being use more to giive chances at the back,but originally I hoped this light would just bring a bit of life into the bkg.

So around a week ago after a month of videos and endless hours lying in a doorway between the hours of 11pm and 4am I found myself videoing a cub. There was a proper storm blowing and fatugue was setting in, I slipped up twice and the miirror went down, butone remarkable thing had happened, my cub was still infront of me. I rejigged all the camera settings set camera to single shot silent calmed the hell down and pressed shutter...wow cub still here game on!!

Here's my first piccy with lights one from the frist set to be more precise

_S2I2718 cubins smj RL by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

I'll be completely honest here I was stunned by this when I saw it on PC look I'm not saying it's the best frame in the world ,what I'm trying to convey is from a month night in night out I'd been chasing this and I never really though the images were going to look like the above ,sort of crap grab shot level ,that it;s nice to see and have a memory of but not what's above.

The following night again blowing a howler mum turns up while I'm mid throw making images of a cub, she hangs around and I make pics of her, something I never thought would happen.

It's gone on from there basically this last week. shooting under these light is tricky my SS are low and my iso high the foxes so close I need more dof , but at the outset I didn't really think this might be possible. I don't honestly know if this would have happened without C19. It's sort of opened a new world to me ,

A couple more images for you
_S2I3704 PK HO smj by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr


_S2I4354cub LP sm j TDN by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

I think that's about it really bar a shed load of images really interesting to go through incredibly frustrating and rewarding in equal measure

cheers for reading

stu

 

[gramps]

Great read Stu, I can tell how excited you are ... even for you!
It's great when a plan comes together isn't it, my trail camera has been a lifesaver for me wildlife-wise and it looks like your project has been keeping you sane too.
I'm glad I checked the thread ... makes me feel better about my back garden!

 

[Dale.]

Awesome , I love these stories. Thanks for the effort Stu, time taken and sharing,

Truly inspiring stuff.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

I know I'm a hopeless case aren't I , little point in trying to hide it from folks I told you me garden was rough that I garden for nature, your's looks like something out the chelsea flower show to me. Seriously though three foxes in a tiny space it was always going to get trashed. The upper story has been fantastic these last weeks though with all the roses and cherries I know me plants roger do you know david austin roses whey swarm the place0 , We've had around 15lbs of morello from the tree and the birds are having a field day. with the rest The black caps love them roger I only learnt that this year ha so do foxes !!! I'm not terribly conventional as a gardener I can grow and do, lotty looks amazing and the grub is so good for us,but i'm an animal nut not a plantsman

.So I garden for food and animals really. I love having the voles the frogs newts toads the place is banging with birds rammed with them. Most gardens are based on us looking at it mate mines based on what I can see in it .

This bit that i've shown is based on what I can do with it in the dark in an image now . It's things llke the pond sorry builders trayWhen you get low stick lights in and a fox the above space looks incredibly different in an image. I'll try and show this mate with an actual image my dumb words will probably not get this out.

Buddy I want to make something I want to look at, the whole thing is utterly artificial ok a complete head case subject accepting she is everything nature intended her to be. But I still want to make a natural looking image. i'm not trying to hide anything at all,but the physical side of trying to make a lawn attractive appeals to me as an image maker. Mate I'm only interested in the bit in side my view finder if i'm at 400mm it isn't big that's what I'm gardening for

This is a complete set up like the country file calender last year in the " wildlife photographic world" that provokes response If I get what I'm trying to do right the image might look like it was made anywhere so I kinda want to be upfront of how I'm doing this,

Plus as I can find so damn little out there about it ,I guess it's me trying to give a bit back to you orrible lot in leu of all the help with stuff like post. you lot have bunged at me I know it's bonkers but it's also a photo op at a time when some of us could do with one

Some of us worry on the effects of flash and animals so it sort of opens another door into wildlife images for folks like me,

I did wonder about showing the garden mate it spoils the illlusion of the image in some ways but in others I say turning it into a pic I think it's worth sharing

I chuck a couple of handfuls of peanuts out roger but she was probably here last year, def visiting the corner as all the veggies were flattened last year I now know why : she sits back there and watches intently all but out of sight. You can see her run just below the nettle first pond image where she usually come in , that where the camera is always trained as nine times out of ten she comes in there

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Awesome , I love these stories. Thanks for the effort Stu, time taken and sharing,

Truly inspiring stuff.

Cheers Dale same builders tray as yours bought all but the same time I remember it , use less as a reflection pool , never thought I'n be making images of a fox drinking from it

thanks mate takes me hours to write

you good ? Everythng's so busy we don't talk so much now

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

This is a great read Stu, and you've achieved some fantastic results.
Keep up the good work pal.

 

[gramps]

I know I'm a hopeless case aren't I , little point in trying to hide it from folks I told you me garden was rough that I garden for nature, your's looks like something out the chelsea flower show to me. Seriously though three foxes in a tiny space it was always going to get trashed. The upper story has been fantastic these last weeks though with all the roses and cherries I know me plants roger do you know david austin roses whey swarm the place0 , We've had around 15lbs of morello from the tree and the birds are having a field day. with the rest The black caps love them roger I only learnt that this year ha so do foxes !!! I'm not terribly conventional as a gardener I can grow and do, lotty looks amazing and the grub is so good for us,but i'm an animal nut not a plantsman

.So I garden for food and animals really. I love having the voles the frogs newts toads the place is banging with birds rammed with them. Most gardens are based on us looking at it mate mines based on what I can see in it .

This bit that i've shown is based on what I can do with it in the dark in an image now . It's things llke the pond sorry builders trayWhen you get low stick lights in and a fox the above space looks incredibly different in an image. I'll try and show this mate with an actual image my dumb words will probably not get this out.

Buddy I want to make something I want to look at, the whole thing is utterly artificial ok a complete head case subject accepting she is everything nature intended her to be. But I still want to make a natural looking image. i'm not trying to hide anything at all,but the physical side of trying to make a lawn attractive appeals to me as an image maker. Mate I'm only interested in the bit in side my view finder if i'm at 400mm it isn't big that's what I'm gardening for

This is a complete set up like the country file calender last year in the " wildlife photographic world" that provokes response If I get what I'm trying to do right the image might look like it was made anywhere so I kinda want to be upfront of how I'm doing this,

Plus as I can find so damn little out there about it ,I guess it's me trying to give a bit back to you orrible lot in leu of all the help with stuff like post. you lot have bunged at me I know it's bonkers but it's also a photo op at a time when some of us could do with one

Some of us worry on the effects of flash and animals so it sort of opens another door into wildlife images for folks like me,

I did wonder about showing the garden mate it spoils the illlusion of the image in some ways but in others I say turning it into a pic I think it's worth sharing

I chuck a couple of handfuls of peanuts out roger but she was probably here last year, def visiting the corner as all the veggies were flattened last year I now know why : she sits back there and watches intently all but out of sight. You can see her run just below the nettle first pond image where she usually come in , that where the camera is always trained as nine times out of ten she comes in there

I'm definitely a 'nature garden' man Stu ... all the buttercups on the top ledge are far better for me than the crispest of lawns.
If SWMBO didn't insist on a gardener coming in to cut the grass and trim up a bit every now and then we could pass for a jungle patch! Concentrate on the important things my friend

 

[Dale.]

you good ?

yeah, doing ok Bud.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

This is a great read Stu, and you've achieved some fantastic results.
Keep up the good work pal.

Thanks Bob , glad you enjoyed. Ha mate you can now see why I was so grateful to you for getting me sorted with that other fox thread with the facebook links,

Bob I'm genuinely surprised by the results, I felt it was doable and that if We kept going something at some stage would come back, but no real ideas on what IQ could be achieved, I could sort of see the potentiial images though,if that makes sense.

thanks again.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

I'm definitely a 'nature garden' man Stu ... all the buttercups on the top ledge are far better for me than the crispest of lawns.
If SWMBO didn't insist on a gardener coming in to cut the grass and trim up a bit every now and then we could pass for a jungle patch! Concentrate on the important things my friend

Sorry for the huge reply mate I guess I was trying to get over how much thought is going on behind the jungle.,It's desparately unconventional though I garden for the little things mate everything else feeds off that, it is really important to me I get this out to me because it's so graphically tied into the image making potential here at home.. I'm sort of hoping the skillset I'm trying to build with the foxes,ie night shooting might be transferable . i'm slowly hatching a plan to catch up with the owls that come here.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

As I've mentioned above part of what ii'm finding beguiling in all this is how that plain garden above looks at night especially through a longer lens like my 400 DO and how I can try to develop that plain bit of grass to give me a wider potential of images . I guess I'm sort of thinking along the lines of a film set , where one sort of creates a space for a scene to play out in. Having never done anything remotely like this before I little in the way of preconceived ideas., I do feel I'll exhaust the potential bar a few amazing moments fairly quickly without trying to be somewhat inventive, There are only so many things one can capture of a mum fox and kidlet on a lawn !!

As mentioned one of my first ideas to put in place was to move their drinker and make it a tad more attractive , You can see me pond in the picture above : it's just a plain builders tray let into the ground with a couple or three logs around the edges to hide said tray and some rough turves to blend it into the lawn.

At night when the camera is down low with a big lens on then the images that comes back bare little resemblence to that plain tray with a few turves. As far as I can recollect everything bar the bkg wasn't there days before this frame was made so everything in the frame bar the cub an BKG was put there by moi.

. _S2I4212cub drinking 1 smj DN by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr



At the moment my thoughts image wise are trying to catch PK with her lad a double head shot @ 400mm, i've no dof it;s a big ask to get them both on the same plane of focus.

she's been cool these last couple of nights, I am unsure if the heavy rain is helping with shutter noise, she's been coming in around midnight then cub turns up a bit later. They are so close that @ 400m they are a bit tall, I'm finding framing in landscape tough, it's also incredibly hard to switch orientation with a fox yards away and a skirt wrapped around the end of the lens. I shot with the 100mm macro last night ,not terribly happy with my results, It funny it's my garden but all the usual wildlife mistake are in place, ya know put a sandwich in your mouth ..... sparrow hawk flies at you out of nowhere. Put the the 2X ext on shoot at 800,, everything comes too close to frame . shoot bare lens everything is out of reach

We all do this ,but I'm bordering expert at it now :

I set up last night at 11, she was here 15 mins early 1145 . Also as expected a few mins later up rolls her boy, lol he spooked her...OMG it's her son, she jumped feet !!!!!! She, realises who it is, and there are all me double head shots licking nuzzlin lined up in a row, and I've got the wrong lens on. What makes it even better, Is I have a fair to middling idea where this might happen. So following my hunches I have rejigged the lights to the exact spot where all this is happening. .Wrong lens DOH I set the whole thing to a dime and................. oh well

Back to the drawing board huh, at around midnight I can lay a bet nowt happens tonight Jees I make some blunders

 

[JohnC6]

Just gone through these,Stu..great set. ..wonderful and a riveting narrative,too.

 

[FromTarn]

Hi Stu just come over to this from your other post about your garden fox project, it makes interesting reading and you are getting some good shots from it, how near to the foxes are the lights, are we talking just a few feet. just one thing about what you said about trying videos, I've used 4k on my 5D4 and then taken a still from the video, can you do that with the 1DX2

 

[rick448]

Great post and pictures, thanks for sharing.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Just gone through these,Stu..great set. ..wonderful and a riveting narrative,too.

thank you john , ere mate the above drinking shot. Well, the spark of that Idea came from ,you talking to Roger about water. It's funny how an idea get's into one's head. It caused me to curse a bit ,as I had already been watching them drinking , I just couldn't believe I'd hidden that potential away, because at that point the pool looked so unattractive

thanks for stopping by John

cheers

Great post and pictures, thanks for sharing.

Many thanks Rick

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Hi Stu just come over to this from your other post about your garden fox project, it makes interesting reading and you are getting some good shots from it, how near to the foxes are the lights, are we talking just a few feet. just one thing about what you said about trying videos, I've used 4k on my 5D4 and then taken a still from the video, can you do that with the 1DX2

Hey Martin, buddy front to back I'm shooting with the DO ii mid point on the focus ,limiter switch ie I'm shooting between 3.3 and 8M I guess the area left to right is somewhere around 3 or 4 M. the two lights roughly equidistant to me one left one right about 2M in front of me the other to the left maybe 4M I'd guess because it constantly varies as the fox moves, they are somewhere between 1 and 4 M from the nearest light in any position that i'm making images.

Buddy does that make sense. Put it another way, with these lights in you woodland hide, you should be able to shoot any subject in a clearing day 8 meters away from the hide and 4 meters across to give a rough ballpark, based on what I know from doing this,nothing more. Mate you'll probably also need to use the battery option, unless you have manin in hide, which I suspect not. The AA option I believe will give you 2 hours, there is something called a V battery ( forgive me mate term not completely correct) ,which can be plugged in vie the " d tap" connector I believe that give a more powerful option think it's 95 watt, details will be on rotolight's site

Mate also be aware that the neo ii as well aswell as having the high speed flash sync reciever inside is also more powerful, I think it's 85% then the first version of the Neo

Martin if you look at the above images 2nd garden picture . you can see the exact spot where cub is stood back of pond and the lights relative to that exact position. that will be about as far as I can make an image from the lights,as a rough idea

Yes I have the 4K video and theScreen grab capability. Martin I simply never used 4 K as the files are so big. My little PC nearly died from data overload from me playng video I don't think my C drive is very big? I have to be extremely careful with video it seems.Buddy my son is the polar opposite of me a complete genuis with PC's , although I'm being a bit vague 4 K is something I probably best not explore at the moment

Martin the other thing is I suspect under these conditions the stills captured that way might not be great: one is pushing the camera a bit . Earlier in this escapade I was varing ISO, pushing and learning how far I could go with techs and IQ. Now I 'm just shooting iso 16000

Mate there are lots of lights but as I say our needs are not quite the same as being in a studio, the weather aspect ie rain water is huge to us. I simply couldn't find another light that was being used in the rain bar rorotolights.

Buddy this is not a straight forwards shoot, tricky problems to over come with SS DOF and shooting this way full stop. That said the results are there above for you to judge, too me those results are worth the effort .

On a personal note Martin PK ( my vixen ) is as scatty as they come. She is also the only largish apex predator. we have left in blighty ie as a race the red fox are intelligent . She's as bright as they come brit mammal wise, as wary as nature intended one tough tough cookie to crack. If I can get these lights and the shutter racket of a 1dx mark ii past her, then there is going to be little in the UK you can't do this with.

Martin I've never ever had an animal spook to the AF being engaged, jees mate I've shot roe that are bloody bonkers feet away i've never encountered anything like her. so with her as a ball park other species should be easier , I think there is more here Martin than the foxes, more ways to use on more species It takes time and patience, but all wildlife does

hope that helps mate about as much as I can give ya

take care

stu

 

[gramps]

She's as bright as they come brit mammal wise, as wary as nature intended one tough tough cookie to crack. If I can get these lights and the shutter racket of a 1dx mark ii past her, then there is going to be little in the UK you can't do this with.

Time and patience Stu, she needs to get used to the setup ... first off 'my' Vixen wouldn't touch any food although she was hungry, she would creep up to it, sniff it, back off and disappear but now she takes the offering in her stride and accepts it's there for her to snack on. Once your Vixen gets used to your setup I'm sure you will find your patience paying off with her too.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Time and patience Stu, she needs to get used to the setup ... first off 'my' Vixen wouldn't touch any food although she was hungry, she would creep up to it, sniff it, back off and disappear but now she takes the offering in her stride and accepts it's there for her to snack on. Once your Vixen gets used to your setup I'm sure you will find your patience paying off with her too.

It is you or me that's tired buddy? it's past past tense she's mine now I have got the lights and shutter past her, It's done !! I've shown one image of her but I do have slightly more than that ha ha and some Roger this has taken around 4 or 5 weeks of me being there every night bar one or two,when I've literally slept, due to exhaustion to actually press the shutter and any of them stay put.. That is all I need though just for them to hear the shutter and not leave

Well I say that with a big smile and my usual jesting Roger, but I know in my heart she'll never relax here buddy, As hard as it's been and is,( mate she's bonkers), I don't want her too. She has to be who she is and that will keep her kids safe especially here with a big ol german pointer next door. and sheep farming all around me.

I've had nights with her now where the frame count is silly, but even so she's still wired up like a coiled spring. It is ever so ever so strange how she has accepted the shutter , she will still leave if I make any other sound what so ever. Like my nail clipping the FP toggle or my knee scraping the foam . I can't let her see the camera lens move either

. i'm very aware of your vixen buddy how she was , i'm not sharp like many of the guys here but by god I watch animals hard so i've probably watched your videos as intently as you have, I'm constantly scratching try to work them out, Somewhere in all that watching will be the key to how I got the shutter past her, I've got my theories. I'll take forwards, I just can't see another subject here being so damn tricky as this one.

sorry for the confusion it's my words again Roger, my apologies, they are vague.. Cheers for this mate I know you were encouraging me bless ya, I'm good with her and beyond amazed it has happened I really am. A month of nowt image wise and being about to 4am night after night was a tough gig For that to change has been so cool, I know you have picked up on how excited I am ,that's the reason why, .

.

 

[gramps]

It is you or me that's tired buddy? it's past past tense she's mine now I have got the lights and shutter past her, It's done !! I've shown one image of her but I do have slightly more than that ha ha and some Roger this has taken around 4 or 5 weeks of me being there every night bar one or two,when I've literally slept, due to exhaustion to actually press the shutter and any of them stay put.. That is all I need though just for them to hear the shutter and not leave

Well I say that with a big smile and my usual jesting Roger, but I know in my heart she'll never relax here buddy, As hard as it's been and is,( mate she's bonkers), I don't want her too. She has to be who she is and that will keep her kids safe especially here with a big ol german pointer next door. and sheep farming all around me.

I've had nights with her now where the frame count is silly, but even so she's still wired up like a coiled spring. It is ever so ever so strange how she has accepted the shutter , she will still leave if I make any other sound what so ever. Like my nail clipping the FP toggle or my knee scraping the foam . I can't let her see the camera lens move either

. i'm very aware of your vixen buddy how she was , i'm not sharp like many of the guys here but by god I watch animals hard so i've probably watched your videos as intently as you have, I'm constantly scratching try to work them out, Somewhere in all that watching will be the key to how I got the shutter past her, I've got my theories. I'll take forwards, I just can't see another subject here being so damn tricky as this one.

sorry for the confusion it's my words again Roger, my apologies, they are vague.. Cheers for this mate I know you were encouraging me bless ya, I'm good with her and beyond amazed it has happened I really am. A month of nowt image wise and being about to 4am night after night was a tough gig For that to change has been so cool, I know you have picked up on how excited I am ,that's the reason why, .

.

Ha ha, yes I've obviously missed something somewhere.
I thought all of the photos were of the youngster ... not paying attention obviously!

 

[Stuart Philpott]

The second picture down after the garden images Roger that's mum " PK" is what we lovingly call my vixen. Don't worry buddy I reckon I could confuse anyone.

I'm a bit concerned i'm not sure we have seen the cub I call cubins of late . I think she is in most of the images you have seen so far. I'm as sure as I can be she is female. She used to visit most. I strongly suspect i'm already down to two cubs, I've told you about my little lad cub. . Orginally we had3, two darker cubs one much paler,. Because of the lights I do get confused, a lighter cub at the back looks darker. that said those nose markings I told you about do seem different. Last night mum was jumpy and barely stayed here, I made images of a cub on two occassions, I need to check properly but Ithink they are all of the male cub. The male is always with mum,if he's here she is close by. the little lass seems to come on her own, but she's definitely the same family. It's a worry mate not seeing the little lass these last days, I hope i'm wrong and she hasn't lost another cub,I just don't know yet for sure.

No worries mate as i say i'm probably guilty of causing the confusion, the important bit is I am getting images of mum, when she lets me

 

[gramps]

The second picture down after the garden images Roger that's mum " PK" is what we lovingly call my vixen. Don't worry buddy I reckon I could confuse anyone.

I'm a bit concerned i'm not sure we have seen the cub I call cubins of late . I think she is in most of the images you have seen so far. I'm as sure as I can be she is female. She used to visit most. I strongly suspect i'm already down to two cubs, I've told you about my little lad cub. . Orginally we had3, two darker cubs one much paler,. Because of the lights I do get confused, a lighter cub at the back looks darker. that said those nose markings I told you about do seem different. Last night mum was jumpy and barely stayed here, I made images of a cub on two occassions, I need to check properly but Ithink they are all of the male cub. The male is always with mum,if he's here she is close by. the little lass seems to come on her own, but she's definitely the same family. It's a worry mate not seeing the little lass these last days, I hope i'm wrong and she hasn't lost another cub,I just don't know yet for sure.

No worries mate as i say i'm probably guilty of causing the confusion, the important bit is I am getting images of mum, when she lets me

I think my pair have four cubs but it's now very rare to see them all ... there is one who always comes and a 2nd who sometimes comes. Maybe 'cubins' is just finding her own way as mum and the male cub are so close, I have noticed sibling rivalry.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

I worry the road an all second I'd be surprised to see the cub that visits most stop coming first. It's all conjecture Roger I don't know.,

Roger,first year mortality will be high , I don't know numbers, but it will be high,that's how mum nature works, when you are in the top flight earn your crust by outwitting others, ie apex pred, only the best make it, to adult hood. it's brutal and hard but that's how it works some make it a lot don't and that first year is huge..

I was looking at her before coming here, just resting the eyes from staring. at images, and editing for a mo .................... she's as stunning creature mate. It hit me a few minutes back ,that I'd almost overlooked that simple fact. Too close I suppose. I was trying to find something to really show her to you, and there was this dawning of actually" the bitch is really pretty" :banghead: and wanting to almost hate her for it Roger ya know the term DIVA, that's her, that's who I deal with.!! Her eyes did me in that first image,but i've been trying to get past her senses for so long I'd sort of lost that.


Buddy there is a family side to them but they are loners,the sibling rivalry probably started at the teat before their eyes were even open.. I see them as more scrappy more uncomfortable with each other than dog pups,. I can't find the words but i think that lone life style manifests it's self early whereas wolf/dog pups are a bit more laid back. becaue they are a pack hunter I think we are both seeing that

I don't know when independence comes,but a mum like this has invested so much I don't think they will be pushed out of territories untill maybe the autumn. vixens come into season late dec jan to the best of my knowledge, that's when I hear them calling, here i'd imagine the kids would be kicked out a bit before breeding. I might be miles off. The fact we both have a food source might mean we will both see cubs and parents for longer than normal?? I just don't know really. I think it was only the one cub last night. I saw here.

We'll see mate tis a harsh world out there, we will never have answers to many questions !!

 

[FromTarn]

Stu thanks you have given me plenty of info to go at and I'll keep looking back at this post as reference so thanks for that, near the wood is a country road that at night, when cars pass by their headlights shine onto the clearing which doesn't seem to phase the badgers none, so this could be a plus for me with using LED lights but we will see.....

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Welcome,

Martin start the lights soon , make a little screen so passers by on road don't notice. Start the lights with some thing innocuous: a tiny little led camp light might be ideal. place that light where you intend to place a light later to make an image

Go real gentle but start soon, the lesson here mate is five weeks no images!! Buddy I have a lot of video and I guess I simply wore her down but five weeks !!

Brock isn't charlie, Martin, but that nose and those ears wow. If you are feeding then you have a way past scent, I suspect they might be less sensitive than a fox to having an led in their faces. but I'd start lights asap on a small cheep scale then build up if you decide to. That way you don't have to invest ,and at the same time brock is gentley introduced to a difference in surroundings, I started with a table lamp it works QED

 

[Stuart Philpott]

My neighbours had a bit of a bash at the weekend , so we haven't seen the foxes for a couple of days and did wonder if they might not return. I have to day a couple of nights of sleep hasn't hurt. Great to see two cubs on the lawn last night. One was really really nervous, I didn't set the fake door just left them quiet playing the patience game.

Funny I also know that they came back later on . The ruddy cubs keep trashing my pond They pick the bits of wood up and dump them elsewhere it's some form of game. I actually nabbed a series of frames of this happening but sadly all had mo blur. Little rotters god knows how many times I've reset things now , It is funny though, there's me being all picky delicately placing stuff making it all look pretty and they turn up and bosh game over !!

.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

We had two different cubs visit and also PK last night , first time I've seen her since the pardy, naturally all was good until the neighbours sent her packing bless 'em. i'm still very unsure if we have two cubs now or three. It's difficult to assmilatel ID with the variations in lighting making the same cub look somewhat different dependent on how it's lit. Also difficult now to note behaviour changes as the foxes have had a fair shock with the goings on over the weekend. What I have noted those the last couple of days is two cubs arriving together which I haven't seen for a while now. Actually can't recollect a previous time when this has happened, but this night shooting lark means I am not holding details like normal. It is definitely unusual , Looks like the paler cub" cubbiins" is fine she's the most confident of them all and probably helped keep the bag of nerves in the picture below , here that bit longer

Here's the, or one of the, dark cub/s sat at the back behind the pond, still very nervous, it did venture forwards and feed for a little while with the other cub which was too my left but again spooked after only minutes.

_S2I5661 Dark cub sitting smj Dn by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Quite a big crop , focus being the bottom jaw ,ouch,. The first thing I remember this morn was reading john' sad peregrine story. Life is brutal for young predators,



. I don't see so many rats here, we have voles and woodmice. I makes images of them well voles in the same spot this image was made, front door step

So occassionally I see full bore mouse hunting with these foxes. I was about to say last night but it's today isn't it . :banghead: Last night cubins hit something left so close I could not focus so that should logically be under 3M,

I honestly thoughts she would take down cables lights the lot on her way god she hit that wall besides me hard, I've no idea whether she did this whether it's just a baby tooth falling out? But WOW ................. seeing even a baby fox fly at something besides me just a few feet left eye level...........cor she's quick and jeepers she hit that wall hard.

_S2I5925 ouch cub smjDn by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

Oh as of a few mins back that tooth is still there, I had to stop editing to go make images...........the hardship

my ruddy tea's gone cold too

 

[Stuart Philpott]

I have told you all about my wonderful dramatic stunningly beautiful pond.. and the huge efforts I've gone to. showed you dramatic images( ) and..................... ok it's a builders tray it took an hour enough already it worked I was well chuffed end of( sulks)

I go out doing me lights water check routine tonight and something swims across my pond. Ha get in that's good !! one half grown frog.

Ya can take an animal to water, but ya can't make the bugger drink,is the stockmans saying. Mine's all upside down I give the buggers an inch of water and the whole town shows up.


Ok the first bit is funny right, it's meant to be I move a bit of water and in a couple of weeks I have a fox drinking images and now a frog checking out the place, which is just lovely and also funny



But now i've got live fox grub in me drinker that I put there and if things come to pass I could potentially make images of a fox munching my little froggy( that is not said with glee) but I know would make thos e images same as I would if the fox caught a mouse . Look that could happen anyway froggy didn't just drop in from mars. So it's just stupid of me to intervene , I just thought it interesting to talk about.

I keep amphibians , the joy of that little thing making me jump in my ruddy builders tray,is not in many ways different to a fox in my garden , I really love amphibians.

As wildlife image makers we record and don't intervene. I feel slightly awkward because I sort of caused a potential situation that simply never occurred to me and that also might lead to images. , it's pointless moving froggy he.ll be back tomorrow or his buddy , also he's no different to the mouse hit I'm make an image of if I could.

Just thought it was interesting to waffle on so many conflicting thoughts

cheers for reading

 

[sphexx]

I have told you all about my wonderful dramatic stunningly beautiful pond.. and the huge efforts I've gone to. showed you dramatic images( ) and..................... ok it's a builders tray it took an hour enough already it worked I was well chuffed end of( sulks)

I go out doing me lights water check routine tonight and something swims across my pond. Ha get in that's good !! one half grown frog.

Ya can take an animal to water, but ya can't make the bugger drink,is the stockmans saying. Mine's all upside down I give the buggers an inch of water and the whole town shows up.


Ok the first bit is funny right, it's meant to be I move a bit of water and in a couple of weeks I have a fox drinking images and now a frog checking out the place, which is just lovely and also funny



But now i've got live fox grub in me drinker that I put there and if things come to pass I could potentially make images of a fox munching my little froggy( that is not said with glee) but I know would make thos e images same as I would if the fox caught a mouse . Look that could happen anyway froggy didn't just drop in from mars. So it's just stupid of me to intervene , I just thought it interesting to talk about.

I keep amphibians , the joy of that little thing making me jump in my ruddy builders tray,is not in many ways different to a fox in my garden , I really love amphibians.

As wildlife image makers we record and don't intervene. I feel slightly awkward because I sort of caused a potential situation that simply never occurred to me and that also might lead to images. , it's pointless moving froggy he.ll be back tomorrow or his buddy , also he's no different to the mouse hit I'm make an image of if I could.

Just thought it was interesting to waffle on so many conflicting thoughts

cheers for reading

I have always found frogs, especially froglets, are prolific in long grass etc rather than ponds except when breeding.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

I have always found frogs, especially froglets, are prolific in long grass etc rather than ponds except when breeding.

Me too, that's why they are here Rich,how I garden. The amount of rough damp places and huge food availability, I suspect froggy might not even have been there for the whole night, Next door has a big pond the phibs breed there. My rough old garden a nit like yours I suspect is where they come to grow up and often stay. Lol last year a big ol toas used to come have a bath each night under our bedroom window,in a plant tray under a pot of pepper. you'ld here it splashing about for a while each night. The birds and beasties are everywhere here

It was just so funny to see it swim across my tray and then it set me thinking about cuase and effect in my image making .

Baiting is something some togs feel really strongly about,I made no images last night so had no difficult or otherwise choices to make. I guess I try really hard to examine what I do,

Rich you probably know my style of togging as well as anyone , I tend to focus on things that live wild and are scared of me, I can mess with scared of me, and that's why I chase the mad sods, it's a crack . It's difficult and tough at times physically bla de bla, But it's also deeply rewarding for me to be able to get close make images and observe..

So to be. feeding foxes and shooting at home is really weird to me ,it is all but the exact opposite of everything I normally do to enjoy my image making. It's making me try to work out any negatives. I am also acutely aware that togs have views I don't really comprehend, hence the waffle seeing if someone might come back and have a chat, debate what ever, I might learn more from

cheers

 

[sphexx]

@Stuart Philpott You’re a hunter not a trapper .

It is certainly accepted that foxes eat frogs. Have you ever heard of our native frogs or newts being toxic? Frogs not toads.

My terrier suffered what seems to have been a poisoning episode that lasted 3 weeks (no treatment due to COVID and not realising what it was). Seems to have been a psychedelic episode of some sort that didn’t affect her ’physically’. My later thought was ‘toad’ (I have plenty) but there was no frothing as I’ve seen before and everyone gives as the first symptom. She catches frogs but they always ’play dead’ and get left alone.

I have newts in the small pond and around the garden. Some North American newts are deadly even to humans if eaten but I’ve never heard that ours are in any way.

 

[gramps]

Talking of frogs ...
Had a text from a friend this morning ... she found one apparently limp and dead having been found by foxes in her garden (the cubs were around it). Not wanting them to eat it she picked it up, saw it was inanimate and seemingly some signs of blood, wrapped it loosely in some paper and put it in the shed ready to dispose of in the morning. In the morning the paper was open and the frog was strolling around on the shed floor ... her question, do frogs play dead when in danger?

 

[sphexx]

Talking of frogs ...
Had a text from a friend this morning ... she found one apparently limp and dead having been found by foxes in her garden (the cubs were around it). Not wanting them to eat it she picked it up, saw it was inanimate and seemingly some signs of blood, wrapped it loosely in some paper and put it in the shed ready to dispose of in the morning. In the morning the paper was open and the frog was strolling around on the shed floor ... her question, do frogs play dead when in danger?

Never seen a frog “strolling” . All the frogs I’ve seen caught by dogs (who make short work of rats or mice), lie on their backs, immobile, with their ‘hands’ behind their heads as though ‘sunbathing’. They always seem completely unmarked even I ‘rescue’ them. I suspect they don’t taste nice (haven’t tried ) or at least ‘not right’ and the dogs don’t bite hard enough to injure/kill them on the initial grab.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Yes I guess so. I really do actively hunt subjects not really thought in that way your right aren't you


I can't help you much Rich, to my knowdlege our common frogs is not toxic. toads especially carry a toxin the white liquid produced from the gland just at the back of the head, I'm unsure on our newts,BUT they all carry the orange underbelly warning colours, I'd imagine they have something, toxin wise, but I'm not educated. My hunch would be a newt might have efected your dog,moreso than a toad, I sort of expect something you might notice irrant wise with your doggy around the mouth, with a toad. ( as you have stated actually sorry I mis read)

Buddy I'm absolutley basing this on thoughts, no merit. ,but my guts are leaning towards a newt as you say and the phycological side seems logical. I don't think a frog ie temporia could cause what you have seen, but I'm not sure rich!!


Rich we keep dart frogs, we have quite a collection. they sysnthisise their skin toxins from diet . These bactrotoxins are up there as some of the most powerful toxins on the planet. Phylobates terribilis, the one the choco indians use to tip darts is say a 5CM frog , that frog carries enough poison to have the potential to kill something like 3 aftrican bull elephants or a dozen men. It's said to be the most toxic organism on our planet

The one thing I always get asked by joe public is do ya lick em to get high, i'm not joking rich. the insanity of that question drives me round the bloody bend.:banghead: our frogs in captivity don't carry the level of poison,because they have a diet of fruit fly and springtails which don't give then the building blocks to make poison, sorry better put toxins. But really I'm going to lick something like that...........

There is some sort of tie in with how these toxins can work,and cause strange effects on the mind. I hear cane toads mentioned alot, but i've never really looked into it as the base question I get makes me scream so much

So after all that I can't help really, but my guts have leanings very simialr to yours. I'm fairly well read on amphibia rich ,sure most of it I forget, I just feel I'd have come across temporia carrying a toxin, all my recollections lean the other way, which is why they are so highly predated and so important in the food chain

sorry bud not much help

little fella ...terrier is ok now though??

Talking of frogs ...
Had a text from a friend this morning ... she found one apparently limp and dead having been found by foxes in her garden (the cubs were around it). Not wanting them to eat it she picked it up, saw it was inanimate and seemingly some signs of blood, wrapped it loosely in some paper and put it in the shed ready to dispose of in the morning. In the morning the paper was open and the frog was strolling around on the shed floor ... her question, do frogs play dead when in danger?

Yes Roger exactly that, rich has actually confirmed this behaviour in the post above yours

Buddy even my little captive frogs do this, they roll over and go really stiff, never throw our a dead frog until one is damn sure it's dead and very simply, becuase their skin is a semi premeable membrane when dead they decay and smell bad very fast.

You have seen( or better put your friend has seen ) a defense mechanism widely widley used by herps reps play dead too

Well done froggy tis quite something to out smart a fox family that thinks you are dinner. wonderful story roger I love the outcome. tell the lady if she handles she needs gloves on wet gloves not tap water. Frogs skins are SO sensitive she could burn skin or transmit nasties so gloves on and wash the glove in NON treated water

what we put in our tap water is not good for frogs !!

ahh well little help to rich ,but we have you sorted roger

 

[gramps]

Never seen a frog “strolling” . All the frogs I’ve seen caught by dogs (who make short work of rats or mice), lie on their backs, immobile, with their ‘hands’ behind their heads as though ‘sunbathing’. They always seem completely unmarked even I ‘rescue’ them. I suspect they don’t taste nice (haven’t tried ) or at least ‘not right’ and the dogs don’t bite hard enough to injure/kill them on the initial grab.

Frogs around here are very laid back ... often seen strolling

 

[sphexx]

Yes I guess so. I really do actively hunt subjects not really thought in that way your right aren't you


I can't help you much Rich, to my knowdlege our common frogs is not toxic. toads especially carry a toxin the white liquid produced from the gland just at the back of the head, I'm unsure on our newts,BUT they all carry the orange underbelly warning colours, I'd imagine they have something, toxin wise, but I'm not educated. My hunch would be a newt might have efected your dog,moreso than a toad, I sort of expect something you might notice irrant wise with your doggy around the mouth, with a toad. ( as you have stated actually sorry I mis read)

Buddy I'm absolutley basing this on thoughts, no merit. ,but my guts are leaning towards a newt as you say and the phycological side seems logical. I don't think a frog ie temporia could cause what you have seen, but I'm not sure rich!!


Rich we keep dart frogs, we have quite a collection. they sysnthisise their skin toxins from diet . These bactrotoxins are up there as some of the most powerful toxins on the planet. Phylobates terribilis, the one the choco indians use to tip darts is say a 5CM frog , that frog carries enough poison to have the potential to kill something like 3 aftrican bull elephants or a dozen men. It's said to be the most toxic organism on our planet

The one thing I always get asked by joe public is do ya lick em to get high, i'm not joking rich. the insanity of that question drives me round the bloody bend.:banghead: our frogs in captivity don't carry the level of poison,because they have a diet of fruit fly and springtails which don't give then the building blocks to make poison, sorry better put toxins. But really I'm going to lick something like that...........

There is some sort of tie in with how these toxins can work,and cause strange effects on the mind. I hear cane toads mentioned alot, but i've never really looked into it as the base question I get makes me scream so much

So after all that I can't help really, but my guts have leanings very simialr to yours. I'm fairly well read on amphibia rich ,sure most of it I forget, I just feel I'd have come across temporia carrying a toxin, all my recollections lean the other way, which is why they are so highly predated and so important in the food chain

sorry bud not much help

little fella ...terrier is ok now though??




Yes Roger exactly that, rich has actually confirmed this behaviour in the post above yours

Buddy even my little captive frogs do this, they roll over and go really stiff, never throw our a dead frog until one is damn sure it's dead and very simply, becuase their skin is a semi premeable membrane when dead they decay and smell bad very fast.

You have seen( or better put your friend has seen ) a defense mechanism widely widley used by herps reps play dead too

Well done froggy tis quite something to out smart a fox family that thinks you are dinner. wonderful story roger I love the outcome. tell the lady if she handles she needs gloves on wet gloves not tap water. Frogs skins are SO sensitive she could burn skin or transmit nasties so gloves on and wash the glove in NON treated water

what we put in our tap water is not good for frogs !!

ahh well little help to rich ,but we have you sorted roger

My favourite toxic newt story is the one about the rough-skinned newt (Taricha granulosa) that killed three campers who accidentally made tea with one. It’s mainly of interest because the newts are said to be locked in an arms race with local snakes. No idea if this is still thought to be correct. Doesn’t seem likely they are getting the toxin from their diet, but I dunno. Anyway, it’s a good argument for not licking amphibians!

How a Deadly Camping Trip Revealed an Arms Race Between Snakes and Newts

Snakes' incredible resistance to newt poison started before either creature even existed.

www.atlasobscura.com

I think corvids are on record killing and eating toads (here and Cane Toads in AU) by avoiding the skin.

Lickin‘ critters. I saw a TV programme years ago about a group of women who kept pet rats. They were much given to licking the rats’ tails . Given that rats‘ tails are covered in urine I’m sure they are very tasty but I’m not trying it .

 

[Nod]

I think corvids are on record killing and eating toads (here and Cane Toads in AU) by avoiding the skin.

I have a vague recollection of a documentary some years back that talked about toads showing no obvious injury other than being dead. Turned out to be crows stabbing through their bellies with surgical precision to remover the liver. The stab wounds were small enough to go unnoticed in the field.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

UGG licking rats ,sorry bro but I despair at times !! Yes I also have an awareness of the corvids whiich Nod has also confirmed

the newt story is really interesting ,thanks for the link

 

[sphexx]

UGG licking rats ,sorry bro but I despair at times !! Yes I also have an awareness of the corvids whiich Nod has also confirmed

the newt story is really interesting ,thanks for the link

Oh, right, if you don’t know it Wikipedia gives more info on the toxin, tetrodotoxin, which oddly “is the same toxin found in pufferfish and a number of other marine animals”:

Rough-skinned newt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit to add:

Toxicity and population structure of the Rough‐Skinned Newt (Taricha granulosa) outside the range of an arms race with resistant predators

Species interactions, and their fitness consequences, vary across the geographic range of a coevolutionary relationship. This spatial heterogeneity in reciprocal selection is predicted to generate a geographic mosaic of local adaptation, wherein coevolutionary ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov