Critique Toddler and leather jacket

Morbid

Morbid

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Ian
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The little man got bought a "leather" jacket by his great Nan, which now fits him, so I couldn't resist getting a few shots. Luckily mum was up for having a few taken too, which was helpful as he rarely sits still. I wanted to try something new, to me, so I put a flash behind them for rim/hair light. Not 100% happy with this, perhaps the power was set too low at 1/4 (manual), perhaps it was too close just behind them? Main flash was set to ETTL, shoot through umbrella (camera left and level with the camera), el cheapo eBay backdrop.

1. IMG_6873 by Ian J Bradshaw, on Flickr

2. IMG_6863 by Ian J Bradshaw, on Flickr

3. IMG_6836 by Ian J Bradshaw, on Flickr

4. IMG_6862 by Ian J Bradshaw, on Flickr

5. IMG_6848 by Ian J Bradshaw, on Flickr

Any comments gratefully received, particularly regarding the lighting as I'm pretty much at the bottom of the learning curve.

Thanks for looking.
 
Thanks @Mark Johnson for the 'like'.

Slightly disappointed to have got no comments at all, I guess I've bored you all to tears with shots of my son?
 
Hi Ian
sorry, I never saw this. Your son is very very cute!!!!!

Regards to the images, they all have a real harshness to them to be honest. The back lighting really doesn't suit the 'family' image style that I think you're going for, so it doesn't really work here. There's a time and a place for it, not sure if this is it.They almost look like cut outs pasted on a black background. You'll need some separation from the background given the black jackets though. So you were right to add a second light source. It's just not in the right place doing the right thing. The lighting from the front is quite harsh, too straight on and could do with some softening or feathering. I would life your umbrella up to help give some shadow, which will give you more definition.

This is just my opinion though... so take it with a grain of salt.

You have a lovely family, Ian. :)
 
Very nice set and cute Son... #3 the background needs tidying up as its not totally black alias the others,

Not keen on the chopping of hands but understand how uncontrollable little children are :D
 
sunnyside_up said:
Hi Ian
sorry, I never saw this. Your son is very very cute!!!!!

Regards to the images, they all have a real harshness to them to be honest. The back lighting really doesn't suit the 'family' image style that I think you're going for, so it doesn't really work here. There's a time and a place for it, not sure if this is it.They almost look like cut outs pasted on a black background. You'll need some separation from the background given the black jackets though. So you were right to add a second light source. It's just not in the right place doing the right thing. The lighting from the front is quite harsh, too straight on and could do with some softening or feathering. I would life your umbrella up to help give some shadow, which will give you more definition.

This is just my opinion though... so take it with a grain of salt.

You have a lovely family, Ian. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Bethy, this is just the sort of feedback I wanted (and thanks for the kind words about the family too). I realise this is probably not best suited to family shots, but I wanted to give it a try after seeing other people's work on here. You're totally right though they do look cut out, which was not what I wanted. Would moving the second light further away/more to one side/from the front on the other side to the main light help? It was right behind and below them. Do you mean lift the umbrella out of the way completely or just use the edge of it and feather the light a bit?

It's all still set up so if the other half is willing to give this another try I can hopefully get some better shots.

Thanks again for taking the time to comment, it's much appreciated.
 
Tintin124 said:
Very nice set and cute Son... #3 the background needs tidying up as its not totally black alias the others,

Not keen on the chopping of hands but understand how uncontrollable little children are :D
Click to expand...

Thanks Bryn, I can see what you mean about the bg in #3 (bottom left side?). I agree about the chopping of hands. As he's a wriggly little ******* most of the time this was the best I could manage. Maybe more extreme measures are needed to get a full shot without any chopped appendages...:D

IMG_6878 by Ian J Bradshaw, on Flickr
 
View attachment 43229

The areas with stripes is where I see background as grey (dark) and the non areas appear to be black brush strokes.... Pulling back a little and crop a little in post never killed anyone and nor will its print-ability.
 
Tintin124 said:
View attachment 43229

The areas with stripes is where I see background as grey (dark) and the non areas appear to be black brush strokes.... Pulling back a little and crop a little in post never killed anyone and nor will its print-ability.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I can see what you mean when I adjust the contrast - I think a better monitor would help! I'll sort this out later. I needed to do some touching up as I was getting white pinholes showing through the background in places (from the white wall behind) or maybe it was dust in the air - not 100% sure. Shooting wider is a good point as well, thanks for that too.
 
Hi Ian,

Sorry, no helpful comments from me as you are aware I am also a newbie when it comes to OCF and both Bethy and Bryn have covered what I would have said.

You have however captured some lovely moments.

Can I be cheeky and ask what back drop you bought.

Thank you

Kev
 
They're all technically competent & well timed, but I'm with Beth on the lighting. It works best in #2, I reckon.

But more importantly, why the black background? What mood are you trying to convey? Black is good for moody or dramatic portraits and figure studies.
I'm guessing you were going for moody to match the leather jacket? In which case move the light to the side to create more shadows. Either way, though, I reckon you've set yourself a stiff challenge. Low-key lighting tends to be quite precise and if your little one is a proper wriggler then they're not going to sit in the sweet spot for very long.
 
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juggler said:
They're all technically competent & well timed, but I'm with Beth on the lighting. It works best in #2, I reckon.

But more importantly, why the black background? What mood are you trying to convey? Black is good for moody or dramatic portraits and figure studies.
I'm guessing you were going for moody to match the leather jacket? In which case move the light to the side to create more shadows. Either way, though, I reckon you've set yourself a stiff challenge. Low-key lighting tends to be quite precise and if you're little one is a proper wriggler then they're not going to sit in the sweet spot for very long.
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Thank you Simon, appreciate you taking the time to comment. Why the black background? Well, yes partly to try (and fail!) at the moody look, but more because it's something I hadn't tried before and I wanted to see if it was something I could do. Getting feedback as to what I did wrong and what to try to resolve it I what I like about TP and it's members. Perhaps it's mission impossible as he's unlikely to sit in the right place for longer than it takes him to move away, but I'll give it another go if he and mum want to.

Any thoughts on the rim/hair light? I set up using a toy bear which was small, and I did get a nice 'glow/rim' around it. Does this need to be further away, higher up, stronger? It was at about two feet off the floor, pointing up at an angle and about a foot behind them, set on 1/4 power. Didn't have any time to try anything different at the time (other than raising it up a bit) as this 'shoot' lasted all of about 5 minutes before Finley had had enough. ETA - the rim light had no modifier.
 
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I've never used rim light from directly behind the subject like you have; I might if someone had a spectacular mane I wanted to illuminate.

To my mind rim & hair lights are different things though it's quite possible to use a single light for both jobs.

I like hair light which is behind and to the side - at about 135 degrees from the camera position - and pointing downwards a fair bit. It may need a snoot or grid to avoid flare and control it.
I tend to like rim light which encroaches around the side of the subject a bit more, and which doesn't just separate the head from the background but also the body.

You can put rim lights on one side or both. I don't think I'd put pure hair lights on both sides.

I've been meaning to play a bit more with using a single light to do duty as both rim light and background light; that could be an interesting exercise.

*usual disclaimer applies: I am far from being an expert, just an over-analytic experimenter.
 
juggler said:
I've never used rim light from directly behind the subject like you have; I might if someone had a spectacular mane I wanted to illuminate.

To my mind rim & hair lights are different things though it's quite possible to use a single light for both jobs.

I like hair light which is behind and to the side - at about 135 degrees from the camera position - and pointing downwards a fair bit. It may need a snoot or grid to avoid flare and control it.
I tend to like rim light which encroaches around the side of the subject a bit more, and which doesn't just separate the head from the background but also the body.

You can put rim lights on one side or both. I don't think I'd put pure hair lights on both sides.

I've been meaning to play a bit more with using a single light to do duty as both rim light and background light; that could be an interesting exercise.

*usual disclaimer applies: I am far from being an expert, just an over-analytic experimenter.
Click to expand...

Thanks again Simon, it seems I have a lot to learn - which is all part of the fun. I'll give the behind/higher/to the side thing a try and see how it goes. Might have to make a snoot - which sounds like an excuse to grab a tube of Pringles... Might even try with just the one light, I might be over-complicating this, perhaps.
 
Morbid said:
Thanks @Mark Johnson for the 'like'.

Slightly disappointed to have got no comments at all, I guess I've bored you all to tears with shots of my son?
Click to expand...

Hi Ian, sorry not have written anything to critique your portraits.

Not a camera club man, (used to be in 1970's Andover CC)!

I just know what I like and am not too fussy over perfection.

What I like about your portraits shown here is simplicity of colour, the slightly out of the box theme, and of course the life in the faces of the two very delightful subjects. Their smiles are catching.

The back lighting shows them off very well.

Can't really give a technical critique as I only qualified as a guy with diplopia, but as said, I know what I like....

Well done and give our thanks to the to beauties.

Mj

PS. Hope she did not drop him
 
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Mark Johnson said:
Hi Ian, sorry not have written anything to critique your portraits.

Not a camera club man, (used to be in 1970's Andover CC)!

I just know what I like and am not too fussy over perfection.

What I like about your portraits shown here is simplicity of colour, the slightly out of the box theme, and of course the life in the faces of the two very delightful subjects. Their smiles are catching.

The back lighting shows them off very well.

Can't really give a technical critique as I only qualified as a guy with diplopia, but as said, I know what I like....

Well done and give our thanks to the to beauties.

Mj

PS. Hope she did not drop him
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Hi MJ, thank you for taking the time to comment. I wasn't aiming my initial comment at you in the slightest, I was very thankful for the 'like'.

Not a camera club person either and although I liked these shots and had fun taking and processing them something wasn't quite right. With the helpful comments above I now know what to try next time to get shots I'm fully happy with. Whether it's achievable in the limited space I have is another matter!!

I shall pass on your kind words to Lorna and Finley, and thankfully Lorna didn't drop him.

All the best, Ian
 
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To be honest Ian, I wouldn't even bother with rim lighting with a young mobile child. They don't stay in the same position long enough for it to work anyway, unless you superglue them in place ;)
 
Morbid said:
Thanks again Simon, it seems I have a lot to learn - which is all part of the fun. I'll give the behind/higher/to the side thing a try and see how it goes. Might have to make a snoot - which sounds like an excuse to grab a tube of Pringles... Might even try with just the one light, I might be over-complicating this, perhaps.
Click to expand...

No matter how many times I forget to do it myself it's always best to start with one light and build gradually. Though it seems to me that positioning a single light can be more difficult than two where some fill can mask errors.

I've got to make some snoots myself.. going to try some 40s glamour portraits with speedlights tomorrow night. I'll be using cinefoil, black craft foam and elastic bands.
 
sunnyside_up said:
To be honest Ian, I wouldn't even bother with rim lighting with a young mobile child. They don't stay in the same position long enough for it to work anyway, unless you superglue them in place ;)
Click to expand...

I think you're right Bethy, I'm going to treat these shots as a practice exercise and leave it at that for now.

@tintin - thanks for spotting the issues with the bg. There was another one in the set that also needed to be tidied up. I've re-worked the one above to sort out the bg, and also lowered the exposure on Finley a little and softened the edges on his jacket to try to make it look less "cut out". Though, his head still does!

IMG_6836 v3 by Ian J Bradshaw, on Flickr

Thanks again for all the comments, they have been very helpful.
 
juggler said:
No matter how many times I forget to do it myself it's always best to start with one light and build gradually. Though it seems to me that positioning a single light can be more difficult than two where some fill can mask errors.

I've got to make some snoots myself.. going to try some 40s glamour portraits with speedlights tomorrow night. I'll be using cinefoil, black craft foam and elastic bands.
Click to expand...

I think it was probably the fact that I had a spare speedlite as I didn't need one for the bg that I decided to use two. I've tended to do white bg shots indoors recently, as I have a white room it means I don't need to put any backdrop up, and that needs a light on the bg. Apart from a bit of light on the hair I don't think the second light did a great deal in these shots (because I had it in the wrong place). If I get another chance I will try this again with the light correctly positioned and, if needed, with a snoot attached. The thing I was quite pleased about was the lack of spill onto the background considering the main flash was pointing directly at it and it was only about 2 feet from the subject.

I'd like to see some shots from your shoot at some point to see how it went, if you'd care to share them.
 
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