Tree ID.

Dale.

Dale.

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Dale.
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This tree was a tiny shrub when we moved here in 2008. 10 years later, I had to cut it back, as it was nudging 30 feet and was a bit unsettling, as we get high winds here and I didn't fancy it toppling onto my neighbour's house.

Anyway, it's down to about 9 feet now but still alive and sprouts leaves every year. It's always last to drop its leaves in autumn. It never blossoms or bears fruit. I have never been able to ID the tree, closest I've gotten to is some kind of ash.

Hopefully, the new leaf growth will give someone more knowledgeable than me a clue.

Thanks.

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Can you post some photos with good depth of field that show the leaves, twigs, branches, trunk, bark and the overall shape of the shrub/tree in question? Are there any thorns present on the twigs and branches?

I'd expect it to produce catkins and nuts if it were a hazel, although the nuts might go undetected due to the leafy type shrouding that encapsulates them.
 
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Is it only the female that bears "fruit"?
 
They're hermaphroditic - the trees bear both male and female catkins so all bear fruit. Not sure if the trees are self fertile though.
 
Nod said:
They're hermaphroditic - the trees bear both male and female catkins so all bear fruit. Not sure if the trees are self fertile though.
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A bit more digging (well, this IS a gardening related thread...) tells me that Hazels are self fertile but cross pollination with other trees will be better rewarded. Luckily, Hazels are fairly common so there's a good chance of there being a suitable partner nearby!
 
Thanks for the input. I will get more pics later, the leaves should be bigger now too as that photo was a few days ago. The leaves get to about the top of a thumb size, maybe not quite an inch.

I doubt a pic of the tree will give many clues as I cut it back to within an inch of its life but I will try later today.

Thanks again. (y)
 
Mr Badger said:
Can you post some photos with good depth of field that show the leaves, twigs, branches, trunk, bark and the overall shape of the shrub/tree in question? Are there any thorns present on the twigs and branches?

I'd expect it to produce catkins and nuts if it were a hazel, although the nuts might go undetected due to the leafy type shrouding that encapsulates them.
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No thorns that I've noticed.
 
Dale. said:
Thanks for the input. I will get more pics later, the leaves should be bigger now too as that photo was a few days ago. The leaves get to about the top of a thumb size, maybe not quite an inch.

I doubt a pic of the tree will give many clues as I cut it back to within an inch of its life but I will try later today.

Thanks again. (y)
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Not Hazel then, they can be sort of teacup size leaves.
I'm suspecting Hornbeam.
 
4wd said:
Not Hazel then, they can be sort of teacup size leaves.
I'm suspecting Hornbeam.
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Hornbeam buds have long, pointy, golden brown outers to them, and I can't see the remains of those on the above photo. Anyway, we'll see once Dale posts some more photos.
 
Ok, here goes a few more pics of said tree. I cut a good 20 feet off it about 3 years ago. The plan wasn't to kill it and it has survived and hopefully, it will fill out at the bottom now. I will be keeping it in check as it was begining to get a bit scary. It looks very barren at the moment but it's just springing back to life and it does actually look quite nice wihen it has a full compliment of leaves.

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Woodies love it too.



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Open leaves reminiscent of Hawthorne.
Hmm last photo confuses :thinking:
 
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In the absence of some good, clear, close-up photos of the twigs, buds and leaves (preferably fully grown leaves) I think it could be a birch (probably a downy birch, or hybrid thereof). Did the upper trunk have any slightly whiteish or silvery colour to it before you felled it? Do you have a photo of the tree before you cut it that you could post, to show its shape?
 
I can't remember what the trunk colour was higher up, roughly the same as the lower trunk except maybe smoother and paler but not white or silver as far as I can recall.


Pretty sure there are no photos of it pre felling but I will go back and have a look at garden/house pics.

I will try for clearer photos when there's more to photograph. (y)
 
The one with woodpecker does look like a Birch, it's just an odd shape due to being cut back and some regrowth attempts.
 
Been delving into birch tree info and it could well be a river birch. Lots of salt needed with that though.
 
Nod said:
They're hermaphroditic - the trees bear both male and female catkins so all bear fruit. Not sure if the trees are self fertile though.
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the male bit is are the catkins, the female bit is a flower little tiny reddish things............ tiny tiny. Nod,I grow a handful of cobs filbert and hazel,those little red flowers will be the nuts that feed me and more than a few beasties come late summer. Mate, I've picked your post out not to be pedantic:) it's just everyone should know about those tiny red stamen flowers,they are simply beautiful and hold so much promise. I love 'em Nod ........ simple as

Dale ha I'm glad you posted this I still haven't a clue and this tree bugs me:LOL:. Mate have a look at a technique called pollard. It's a means of control of the height of a tree,it's sort of like coppice........... but higher up .
. Thing is she so wants to live, and you can manage her, but still have her pretty you need to let her grow a crown but at a height you are comfy with.:) Looking at pic three this tree might not be able to fruit or flower it's possibly pruned too hard maybe second year wood traits? . If it's birch she would probably have catkins forming all wiinter, pre leaf, .Buddy maybe you have overestimated the height when you gave her the chop,if not and your shrub was a ten footer then your tree grew 2 foot a year for ten years. I'm sort of wondering if it's not native that growth rate seems astounding given you are a fair way up north??

I'd love to know what this is Dale:)
.

stu
 
Stuart Philpott said:
the male bit is are the catkins, the female bit is a flower little tiny reddish things............ tiny tiny. Nod,I grow a handful of cobs filbert and hazel,those little red flowers will be the nuts that feed me and more than a few beasties come late summer. Mate, I've picked your post out not to be pedantic:) it's just everyone should know about those tiny red stamen flowers,they are simply beautiful and hold so much promise. I love 'em Nod ........ simple as

Dale ha I'm glad you posted this I still haven't a clue and this tree bugs me:LOL:. Mate have a look at a technique called pollard. It's a means of control of the height of a tree,it's sort of like coppice........... but higher up .
. Thing is she so wants to live, and you can manage her, but still have her pretty you need to let her grow a crown but at a height you are comfy with.:) Looking at pic three this tree might not be able to fruit or flower it's possibly pruned too hard maybe second year wood traits? . If it's birch she would probably have catkins forming all wiinter, pre leaf, .Buddy maybe you have overestimated the height when you gave her the chop,if not and your shrub was a ten footer then your tree grew 2 foot a year for ten years. I'm sort of wondering if it's not native that growth rate seems astounding given you are a fair way up north??

I'd love to know what this is Dale:)
.

stu
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I'll look into that 'pollard' technique Buddy. I'm no gardener but I don't want the tree to die but I do have to manage it.

I think the previous house owner planted it to help with drainage, it's not great here as this plot was once a very marshy field. He also planted 61, yes, you read that right, 61 Scotch pines along the back fence. I had no choice but to sort that out and now there are just 2 left, that are also managed. I've seen Scotch pines within walking distance of home 50 foot plus.

Here's a very early picture of the tree (2010) and whilst it doesn't provide many clues as to its species, it does show the size after just 2 years of us living here, already 12 feet or so. It was probably just 2-3 feet or so when we moved in. It gets plenty of water, maybe that's why it's growing so fast. It was somewhere between 20 and 30 feet before I felled it, mid to late 20 feet estimate. A friend took away the cut offs, they fed his log burner for 3 months.

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Dale. said:
I'll look into that 'pollard' technique Buddy. I'm no gardener but I don't want the tree to die but I do have to manage it.

I think the previous house owner planted it to help with drainage, it's not great here as this plot was once a very marshy field. He also planted 61, yes, you read that right, 61 Scotch pines along the back fence. I had no choice but to sort that out and now there are just 2 left, that are also managed. I've seen Scotch pines within walking distance of home 50 foot plus.

Here's a very early picture of the tree (2010) and whilst it doesn't provide many clues as to its species, it does show the size after just 2 years of us living here, already 12 feet or so. It was probably just 2-3 feet or so when we moved in. It gets plenty of water, maybe that's why it's growing so fast. It was somewhere between 20 and 30 feet before I felled it, mid to late 20 feet estimate. A friend took away the cut offs, they fed his log burner for 3 months.

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Scotch pine? Is that a whisky tree? :LOL:
 
Dale here's a tought........................

I worked briefly straight out of school in commercial forestry at a place called Tavistock Woodlands ( Devon/ Corn boarders),god it was fantastic for me. Anyway they were triallng a variety of beech I think it's this one or a species thereof : Nothofagus.... There were trialing them for their incredible growth rates I wonder mate have a dig it does look like a baby beech in this latest pic. This explains growth, A shot in the dark Dale .

'Erm No Bob:LOL: it tastes like turps and sticks ya gums together...... don't go there:D And that's without the involvement of a Welsh guy in Scotty:oops: :$

take care lads

stu
 
Beech species have sharply pointed, tightly conical (a bit like a sharp Cornetto ice-cream cone), golden brown buds that are quite obvious in winter and early spring, and there's none visible in the photos. Also, native beech (Fagus sylvatica) retain their leaves through winter if they're under around 12 feet tall (Google beech hedge in winter), and I've found they don't cope well with waterlogged ground.

If I had to choose, my money is still on downy birch (or a birch hybrid). However, I'll wait for some update photos of the fully grown leaves, plus some of the twigs (please use your camera, not a smartphone, and preferably post the photos via Flickr or equivalent so I can zoom in for full detail). Good depth of field in the phots will help, so a sunny day and at least f/11 please. ;)

It's quite frustrating really, if I could see the thing in 'real life' I could soon tell you what is it, or at least narrow it down to species group, if not cultivar.
 
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@Stuart Philpott

Tavistock Woodlands, that is name that caught my attention.....a shared site with other light industry and made quarterly'ish visits to a label printing & and packaging company there ~ a bit of a blast from the past for me :)
 
I planted some woodlands at Tavy Laurence nowt grand a YOPS scheme 65K in a winter is ok though One day i'm going back a life thang to walk in woodlands I planted:cool: If you still live down that way drop me a PM ,if she's still standing there is the most magnificent Douglas fir near the waters of the Tamar I won't go further on Dale's thread but you need to see her, astounding she is!!

Mr B your right everything you say about beech and the buds(y) little cornetto cones is wonderful,what a cool description !!. Buddy when you finally get there I'll also be so grateful,Dale showed me some of this a while back . I'm stumped ( sorry ).................. it's really really bugging me :LOL:
 
It would look better coppiced, not all tree varieties will regrow from a stump (especially conifers) but saw it off about a foot above ground and you will get multiple vigorous regrowth stems, it will form a more pleasing bushy tree and you can do it again every few years to keep it more under control.
 
Stuart Philpott said:
I planted some woodlands at Tavy Laurence nowt grand a YOPS scheme 65K in a winter is ok though One day i'm going back a life thang to walk in woodlands I planted:cool: If you still live down that way drop me a PM ,if she's still standing there is the most magnificent Douglas fir near the waters of the Tamar I won't go further on Dale's thread but you need to see her, astounding she is!!
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Stu

I have never lived down that way (though we have looked at Dorset a few times as place to move to???

I used to cover the whole of the South including South Wales, then up to West Midlands & even East Anglia at one time...................thankfully my area before my redundancy was just the South with the M4 corridor as the northern boundary but still included South Wales.

That part of the country Devon & Cornwall, I would be there for a week at a time....................a bit like a Japanese tourist, a series of one night stops in the Premier Inn or other suitable BnB's. I think I recall the Tavistock Woodlands bit being the last call of the day, starting in Bodmin > Liskeard > Callington> to 'there'. Though my routings varied a tad I recall the first time I needed to find that customer. I would 'bash' up the A390 and keep missing the poorly signed 'farm like' entrance on the LHS :LOL: Once finished there on most routings I would then be overnighting in Branstaple so up the A390 > straight ahead at the bend on the foot to the floor (to beat those non-locals that did not know about the corner cutter ;) ) one way shortcut to join the minor A road going north.

Sadly, on those week away trips there was never any real time to enjoy the views etc but all the customers appreciated that I made effort to call. Especially those in the far west of Cornwall, as was put to me one day "the Cornish will 100% buy locally where they can but like to be visited and not just phoned....................to discuss business...."

Visiting did not always yield great business................my farthest customers were in the Hayle area and try as I might I never managed to grow one particular one as could not budge them enough off of a competitors products ;) :( But sitting in the plant directors office looking out over the Hayle Estuary was great!
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Cool
I'm coming over....:LOL:
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Can't, we're on lockdown, remember? It's all mine. (y):LOL:

Welcome anytime Bob, once this is all over. :)


4wd said:
It would look better coppiced, not all tree varieties will regrow from a stump (especially conifers) but saw it off about a foot above ground and you will get multiple vigorous regrowth stems, it will form a more pleasing bushy tree and you can do it again every few years to keep it more under control.
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I will be doing some reading up on these tricks, I don't know much about it at all. (y)
 
The tree is now blooming with leaves. I was hoping that what is left of it would fill out to provide cover for the birds going to the feeders and perches at my hide.

Anyway, hopefully slightly better pics than the last ones, although it was the wrong kind of light. :LOL:

The bigger leaves are about the size of the top of my thumb.

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Seeing the lobes on the leave........made me think of an Oak, specifically (looking at Oak leaves. ) somewhat like Sessile Oak leaves.....not exact but similar???
 
I saw a mention of Nothofagus earler. I planted one once, Nothofagus is the Southern Beech from New Zealand and not a Beech at all. The leaves do look like that and it commonly sold.
 
sphexx said:
I saw a mention of Nothofagus earler. I planted one once, Nothofagus is the Southern Beech from New Zealand and not a Beech at all. The leaves do look like that and it commonly sold.
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Googled the Southern Beech/Nothofagus and the leaves look similar though more still a more detailed look compared to the lobes look on the above plus not 100% clear from what I could find the Southern Beech are flat and not undulated/curly like the above?

PS as it seems quite old the bark is a bit confusing as both Sessile Oak and Southern Beech appear very similar!
 
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Box Brownie said:
Googled the Southern Beech/Nothofagus and the leaves look similar though more still a more detailed look compared to the lobes look on the above plus not 100% clear from what I could find the Southern Beech are flat and not undulated/curly like the above?

PS as it seems quite old the bark is a bit confusing as both Sessile Oak and Southern Beech appear very similar!
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I planted a juvenile tree of course, I don’t remember seeing another in the flesh bark :).
 
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