Two recent happenings - How to act against it?

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Thisisasecretaccount

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Hello.

I've recently ran into a few problems to photos

I photographed a performance event recently, I uploaded them to facebook with a strict notice saying something along the lines of "You must have written permission from anon to redistribute or use these images images copyrighted anon 2015. For more images visit www.anon.com" jargon. (It was worded better, this is just for a reference) along side watermarks on the images.

Then after that, what happens? Yes. everyone is taking my images without my permission, cropping out the watermark etc. I've put them up for sale for a tiny sum of £3.99 for a full sized digital download, commercial licences at £17 for a single or £75 for 200+ photos.

What can I do to have them pay up or remove the images? Am I in the right to ask for payment?

I've had a few of the hair and MUAS ask me for all of the images sent to their email. I'm not a sucker and won't give it to them, but I'm not a meanie and don't want to be harsh about it.

---

Another incident was partially back from last year..

I photographed an event with a few designers, I then uploaded my images to my website (Smugmug) and upgraded the package to allow for commercial buying. As the one designer had the son of a celebrity modelling his clothes, he wanted the images for free, but I explained that I would be charging £100 for all of the images for a commercial licence. He went on to s**g me off saying that guy wants £100 for each image etc. I explained that its £100 for all 100+ images with a commercial licence. He seemed to calm down and said he'd buy them. Not a single sale was made and I was out of pocket from upgrading my site to offer that.(Silly me) Now one of the organisers is setting up an event company and wants all of the images for free. I've not given them to her although I did have them all visable on my website for several months. I had also given them to the events organisers mother. I assume the organiser wants the images to promote that she organises. The initial event was a charity event, am I in the wrong asking for a payment? Any extra advice?
 
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#2
You can spend time following these people demanding payment but is that what you want to do? I'm pretty sure you would have a case but your best bet is just to ask them to take the images down or at least direct a link back to yourself in the comments (if someone is sharing your photos for free why not demand the publicity rather then sue them for £4?)

As for the second only you can answer that...I'm really easy on charities in any shape or form and happily do unpaid work or help them out when I can within reason but it's a matter of opinion at the end day you are running a business so it's not wrong to expect payment.
 

big soft moose

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#3
on the former a more intrusive watermark is a partial answer (look at Kipax's site) - people will still nick them but at least they can't crop the watermark off.

on the latter the event company isnt a charitable enterprise - its a company ... ergo she pays
 
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on the former a more intrusive watermark is a partial answer (look at Kipax's site) - people will still nick them but at least they can't crop the watermark off.

on the latter the event company isnt a charitable enterprise - its a company ... ergo she pays
I've previously put watermarks across the face, far more "in your face" than kipax's stuff (Pun intended) but it doesn't seem to prevent anything. It's just the cheek of them stealing as opposed to paying a cheap £3.99 for an image. A lot of these people then end up using the images as promotion i.e saying that they're models etc.

I get worried as I have had damage done by some stylist wanting at least 5 + fully retouched images "because every photographer does that as standard" I refused as his job was sloppy and took several hours to correct in post, some were just too far to correct. My name has essentially been denounced. I just get worried about saying the wrong thing and then having people slander me, all because they don't get any free photos.

I wouldn't be too fussed if I was making a bit of cash, but when I'm doing upwards of 30 events a year, making literally a few £ from each one it really gets to me. I doubt it's even quality based. I mean I have people coming to me wanting the images as the other photogs images were blurry, out of focus shooting with 50mm's from the back of the room with a 500d at iso 12000 type things. I do wonder what happens when people steal kipax'es photos. I'd like to hear from him.

The event organiser said something along the lines of "can I have the photos from so and so from last year as I've not had them." True she didn't have them directly, but another organiser had a dropbox and the images were uploaded to my website and facebook for people to share and repost. It's me thats assuming she wants them for her new business. I didn't mind doing it for the charity purpose in the beginning, but I wouldn't let any of the designers or performances from the night use the images for self promotion free of charge as it was for charity.


Gahh, its turning into a rant.
 
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#6
Oh and one other thing, if you price your images at such a low value why would you expect anyone else to do differently?

If they are that much better than those from photographers who give them away, price accordingly.
 
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#7
Why are you so embarrassed that you had to open a duplicate account to ask this?
How did you know?!?! Mainly because I like to keep these things separate from my main account.

Oh and one other thing, if you price your images at such a low value why would you expect anyone else to do differently?

If they are that much better than those from photographers who give them away, price accordingly.
I thought the £3.99 was a decent price. I mean I've previously charged £10-£15 per image. But I was looking at the demographic of these people. Their from a poorer area and there were several shots of them. So as opposed to paying £15 for one image, they could nab 4 images for £16.
 

KIPAX

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I recently added a couple of lines of text to my watermark.. I only add this to mainly adult sports who are the worse for stealing.. it seems to have stopped it and I started selling social media files :)
example > http://www.kipax.com/gallery/index.php?action=view&album=CRICKET/3811&image=75
The man himself has come to speak.

I have tried something similar. It essentially said something along the lines of "un-purchased photo - please visit "insert website here" to purchase" It didn't seem to deter anyone. The most recent image is just my logo plastered over the images.

What would you do if someone were to take your photos and disregard the watermark? Or at least what would you recommend someone do?
 

big soft moose

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#14
shouldnt that be "non watermarked" not "None watermark"

that aside good idea - though i like te less tactful "stolen from xxxxxx" approach
 
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big soft moose

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#15
not only "bad form" but expressly against the rules of the forum

Registration
  • One account only. Username *might* be changeable upon request. You must have a valid email at all times. We don't delete accounts.
Unless your name is Joe scrivens in which case you'll be allowed another 2 or 3 after we ban your first one.... :whistle: (just sayin)
 

KIPAX

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that aside good idea - though i like te less tactful "stolen from xxxxxx" approach
Just didn't work at all.. seemed more like a badge of honor.. look at me i stole a picture whats anyone gonna do about it........... actually explaining dont put on twitter or facebook.. seems to have had more effect.. well definitely has.. :)
 

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I have tried something similar. It essentially said something along the lines of "un-purchased photo - please visit "insert website here" to purchase" It didn't seem to deter anyone. The most recent image is just my logo plastered over the images.
But thats no different than "stolen from" its too generic.. people steal to put on facebook and social media so mentioning that slows them down..

What would you do if someone were to take your photos and disregard the watermark? Or at least what would you recommend someone do?
i have given up on people taking my pics... however it really winds me up if they recrop to either just show them or anything that removes the watermark.. so then i complain to them but in a nice way and they usualy say sorry they didnt ralise and remove........ i only complain to facebook if people take lots of pics.. some take 20 or 30 at a time :(
 
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But thats no different than "stolen from" its too generic.. people steal to put on facebook and social media so mentioning that slows them down..



i have given up on people taking my pics... however it really winds me up if they recrop to either just show them or anything that removes the watermark.. so then i complain to them but in a nice way and they usualy say sorry they didnt ralise and remove........ i only complain to facebook if people take lots of pics.. some take 20 or 30 at a time :(
I'd like to just brush it off my shoulders, but this keeps happening and I end up making no mulah.

One model did take 18 images. Then loads of people liked those images, and now everyone including the makeup and hair and the designers have the images to use for promotional material. I've not had a single thanks, ask or link back to my facebook or website. I'm just going to send them a kind message like so "Hello anon, If you'd like to use any of the photographs I've taken, you may purchase a commercial/personal licence from my website. The watermakrs will be removed automatically upon payment. I know it may sound harsh saying the above, but this is how I earn my living and I can't afford to keep giving my work away for free"

Does that sound too blunt or would you consider that as ok?


not only "bad form" but expressly against the rules of the forum

Registration
  • One account only. Username *might* be changeable upon request. You must have a valid email at all times. We don't delete accounts.
My bad, my main profile is linked into everything. One or two photographers that have a bit of a problem with me are on this site and I didn't particularly want to have them nose into my business. I'll refrain from making any threads on this account.
 
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#21
Sadly I don't think you can expect to put images online and maintain control over where they end up.

I'm not saying it's right! Just the way it is.

What to do? Charge accordingly for the job beforehand. Include the money you expect to make from the print/image.
I understand image theft is going to happen, it's just how to help prevent it in a modest way. Or how to get people to remove/purchase the images if you see them floating about.

It was for a local "community" event. They were given £20,000 funding to hold the event. The lighting and rigging guys were paid pretty sure the makeup and hair was paid, the venue was rented for half a day, they sold tickets at £5 or £10 a pop, filling out the whole area of a few 100+ people. Most of the models were from a different city/town and not community based. They had they transport paid. I wasn't entitled to anything, not even my parking ticket. There were about 10 other photographers there. Most of which were students. Two pro's although the one was using a 85mm from the back of the room, so you can barley make out the models and the other, well I'm not sure about him. They wouldn't pay me or pay any of my expenses for the day, at least I didn't have to buy a ticket! (I went regardless as I was friends with one of the designers and the performers)
 
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#22
No doubt the models and MUAs will be getting paid work off of the back of your images but you are making squat

This occasion may be lesson learned but as suggested above perhaps all limages posted/given should have a bold solid white watermark diagonally across the image stating your copyright and that purchased images will be free of watermark.

As it stands now this is yet another example of the photographer getting shafted by other creative who need to have more respect for those that ultimately contribute to their success. Oh, in no way should you have to explain why there is price for said images......perhaps you could simply say to them next time you hear of someone wanting their services for free you will recommend them!
 
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#23
You mentioned the demographic and how you thought you were catering for them. Demographics clearly play an important part in how much money you can make from a photographic service. What you have done is like throwing confetti in the air and then asking people to pay for it.

You need to go into this kind of thing with a view on how much money you want, need or expect to make from it before you relinquish control of the work that you have produced. Once you have done that, you need to establish a way for that to be facilitated. There are ways to do this but it will involve negotiation and you convincing the organisers and/or the participants that what they get is worth what you're asking them to pay. There are so many variables to this that you have to come up with your own equation. I have charged, via an organiser, in some instances £10 or £15 per head or in another scenario, got them to put £2 on the ticket price. In both instances, the figures rounded up to just under £1K, so, a figure that I was satisfied with for supplying images that were then made available to all. In those instances, it costs the 'we don't have a budget' organiser nothing and it costs the individuals 'peanuts' for what they perceive to be a lot and you get paid a decent amount for your work. However, using that approach in a much more affluent area with a more discerning audience, would have been a mistake because in those circumstances I have made between £3k and £6k in on-line sales after the event.

As an aside, my watermark has a big logo across the middle and the message, 'If you would like the full size, non-watermarked version of this image, click 'Buy' and go to 'Checkout' covering the rest of the image. The type of thing that looks really crap on Facebook! ;)
 
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#24
If you want to make money from photography then get paid before you press the shutter (or get a solid agreement to be paid at any rate). There are some people still making money from after sales but in today's market this is IMO a far better model.

And if they won't pay you beforehand you can pretty much bet they won't afterwards.
 
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#25
I really think you need to ensure you get what you want from your work. Putting it on social media is no way to make money and people will steal it (why pay for what you can get for free). Watermarks will only work if totally obstructive and I have seen people put prints on the wall that are really
Pixilated because they downloaded the image. I thing the post above is your best option, the only thing you can do now is learn from your losses. Good luck
 
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