Use of mobile phones in cars

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The Common Transport Select Committee has suggested that drivers could be banned from using hands-free mobile phones in cars - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49320473

Is this a sensible idea?

I'm not suggesting using hands-free mobiles is a good thing, but given the police are struggling to enforce the current law regarding mobiles phones -

" While the number of people killed or seriously injured in such incidents has increased since 2011, the rate of enforcement regarding phone use has fallen by more than two-thirds over the same period, the report added. " -

is this the way forward?

While spotting a driver using a hand held phone/device is relatively easy, spotting the use of a hand-free devices is much more difficult.

I'd be interested to know how many of the 773 casualties in 2017 where a mobile device was a contributory factor involved hands-free devices.

As I said I'm not suggesting hands-free devices are without their problems when used by drivers and I can understand the argument that someone on the other end of the phone cannot see the road conditions and therefore might distract the driver at a crucial time.

However, distracting the driver could be caused by someone in the car too, who is not aware of the road conditions, eg a young child or elderly person (my late MiL was classic for this; totally unaware of anything happening outside the car), so should other distractions be banned?

Is the current penalty for use of a hand held device not enough of a deterrent (6 points and a £200) given the risk of getting caught is relatively low? Should it be the immediate impounding of the vehicle?

Dave
 
Tricky one eh. I use CarPlay and have made calls through it, and I believe that yes, there is less attention paid to my driving at the time.
As most new cars nowadays have a large touchscreen I also think there are more potential distractions. In my car I use Apple Music and Audible too. Selecting medía means using the screen and not looking ahead.
 
A pointless exercise. It will only be able to be enforced when there is a serious accident and police investigate things like phone records.

As you say, there are plenty of other distraction, like arguing with the wife and the kids hitting each other in the back! Then you have things like trying to concentrate when Popmaster is on or trying to drive through a town in summer with scantily clad young ladies catching your eye!

Think the penalties are about right - at this rate using a phone will get you a bigger punishment than carrying a knife!
 
The select committee don't seem to know what they're talking about. Taking road deaths as an example:
  • 1926: 4,886
  • 1941: 9,169
  • 1960: 5,000
  • 1966: 7,985
  • 2016: 1,792
It's quite clear that we're on top of safety in a way we never have been before (yes: there was a slight rise from 2013's lowest ever count of 1,713) so this comes across as just proposing legislation for the sake of being seen to do something no matter how silly, invasive or counter productive it will be. :thinking:
 
I was stationary on the motorway last night due to an accident and a guy came down the third lane on the other side at speed holding his mobile phone up to his windscreen presumably to video the queue. Some people should not be allowed either a phone or a car becasue they are just too stupid to be allowed out.

Think the penalties are about right - at this rate using a phone will get you a bigger punishment than carrying a knife!
You can kill more people with a car than a knife.
 
The select committee don't seem to know what they're talking about. Taking road deaths as an example:
  • 1926: 4,886
  • 1941: 9,169
  • 1960: 5,000
  • 1966: 7,985
  • 2016: 1,792
It's quite clear that we're on top of safety in a way we never have been before (yes: there was a slight rise from 2013's lowest ever count of 1,713) so this comes across as just proposing legislation for the sake of being seen to do something no matter how silly, invasive or counter productive it will be. :thinking:

And don't forget the huge increase in people and cars!
 
Mixed feelings on this. When I was working all the company cars had hands free, company policy was they were prefer if you didn't, but didn't actually ban it. For me it was helpful to receive a call to say a meeting etc had been put back or cancelled. Quick call no problems, if on the other hand someone had a technical issue then it was a quick sorry I am driving and will get back to you. If I was needing to really concentrate (built up areas, traffic conditions etc) then I just didn't answer.

Now when I use my car most of the time the wife is with me, so she uses the hands free whilst I drive, but obviously I am still part of a conversation. How would that work?
 
And don't forget the huge increase in car safety features, seat belts, ABS, airbags, crumple zones.

Every death is someone's child, parent, relative, friend. I guess 1700+ deaths is OK as long as it's not you or yours?
 
And don't forget the huge increase in car safety features, seat belts, ABS, airbags, crumple zones.

Every death is someone's child, parent, relative, friend. I guess 1700+ deaths is OK as long as it's not you or yours?

Well it could be someone in their 80s with no family and friends... but in all seriousness there is only so far you can take things. Even if we changed the speed limits to 10mph someone would surely die as they hit their head as they fall to the ground. But with the point you are trying to make, surely we should ban in car entertainment as that can cause you to lose concentration (maybe focussing on the football commentary, hearing and old song and reminising), maybe by banning the distraction of having young kids in the care could save some lives too?
 
A pointless exercise. It will only be able to be enforced when there is a serious accident and police investigate things like phone records. .................. etc.

A!

Correct - another load of guff from some of our exceptionally talented MP's (cough / splutter). Could they not find more gainful employment redesigning mouse traps or similar.
 
My touch screen turns off over 5mph and you have to use other controls. I thought they all did?

If this is banned we need to look at talking while driving, listening to the radio, audio books and (to my mind) the most distracting of all, sat-nav.
Totally unenforceable. Before cars people were killed by horse drawn vehicles. Accidents happen. Always will.
 
Mixed feelings on this. When I was working all the company cars had hands free, company policy was they were prefer if you didn't, but didn't actually ban it. For me it was helpful to receive a call to say a meeting etc had been put back or cancelled. Quick call no problems, if on the other hand someone had a technical issue then it was a quick sorry I am driving and will get back to you. If I was needing to really concentrate (built up areas, traffic conditions etc) then I just didn't answer.

Now when I use my car most of the time the wife is with me, so she uses the hands free whilst I drive, but obviously I am still part of a conversation. How would that work?

Great point, never thought of that! Massive loophole already if you are not solo!
My touch screen turns off over 5mph and you have to use other controls. I thought they all did?

If this is banned we need to look at talking while driving, listening to the radio, audio books and (to my mind) the most distracting of all, sat-nav.
Totally unenforceable. Before cars people were killed by horse drawn vehicles. Accidents happen. Always will.

And surely a bigger safety issue is the proposed increase in EV cars which are near silent, unlike a proper car.
 
Great point, never thought of that! Massive loophole already if you are not solo!


And surely a bigger safety issue is the proposed increase in EV cars which are near silent, unlike a proper car.

Exactly. I was in Spain some years back when BMW were testing an early electric. Much of the feedback was "build in some noise" .
 
I was stationary on the motorway last night due to an accident and a guy came down the third lane on the other side at speed holding his mobile phone up to his windscreen presumably to video the queue. Some people should not be allowed either a phone or a car becasue they are just too stupid to be allowed out.


.
Unfortunately that isn't covered by the use of a mobile device law. It covers little more than texting and talking on the phone.
 
And surely a bigger safety issue is the proposed increase in EV cars which are near silent, unlike a proper car.
Exactly. I was in Spain some years back when BMW were testing an early electric. Much of the feedback was "build in some noise" .

I believe, as of next year, all new electric vehicles will have to have VESS
 
And surely a bigger safety issue is the proposed increase in EV cars which are near silent, unlike a proper car.


At up to 20 km/h the Leaf makes a whistling noise, over 20 and the road noise is the same as a "proper" car. A '70s Jag XJ6 was as quiet as an EV with the heater/AC on.
 
Unfortunately that isn't covered by the use of a mobile device law. It covers little more than texting and talking on the phone.

I might be misinterpretting you Neil, but using a phone to video some thing in the way Chris mentioned is covered by current law.

From the gov.uk site - "It’s illegal to hold a phone or sat nav while driving or riding a motorcycle. "

Dave
 
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Another worrying trend is the amount of drivers holding an electric steam fag tank in one hand whilst driving with the other
 
At up to 20 km/h the Leaf makes a whistling noise, over 20 and the road noise is the same as a "proper" car. A '70s Jag XJ6 was as quiet as an EV with the heater/AC on.

I can only go by the amount of idiots in car parks who used to walk in front of my then company car (Lexus Hybrid) - far more often than when driving petrol cars.
 
I can only go by the amount of idiots in car parks who used to walk in front of my then company car (Lexus Hybrid) - far more often than when driving petrol cars.

Idiots will be idiots no matter what. I had someone wonder across the back of my hybrid a couple of weeks ago whilst reversing out of a space. Mine makes an audible beep when reversing. You could be driving a V8 and you'd probably still get some d******d walk in front of you! :rolleyes:
 
I believe, as of next year, all new electric vehicles will have to have VESS
It is already the case right now. I think it was from July 1st this year.
 
I might be misinterpretting you Neil, but using a phone to video some thing in the way Chris mentioned is covered by current law.

From the gov.uk site - "It’s illegal to hold a phone or sat nav while driving or riding a motorcycle. "

Dave
Apparently there has been some recent cases of people getting off of the charge because they weren't actively talking on the phone or texting. The law also covers being in command of a stationary vehicle with the engine running, the vehicle doesn't actually have to be moving.
 
Idiots will be idiots no matter what. I had someone wonder across the back of my hybrid a couple of weeks ago whilst reversing out of a space. Mine makes an audible beep when reversing. You could be driving a V8 and you'd probably still get some d******d walk in front of you! :rolleyes:

Doesn't happen as much in cars I have had since though!
 
Apparently there has been some recent cases of people getting off of the charge because they weren't actively talking on the phone or texting. The law also covers being in command of a stationary vehicle with the engine running, the vehicle doesn't actually have to be moving.

Being really picky, what about stop start cars where the engine is not running?
 
Being really picky, what about stop start cars where the engine is not running?
I guess if you are parked at the side of the road, it will just be viewed as having parked and switched the engine off. If however you are in a traffic queue and the stop/start has enabled then you should still be prosecuted.
Our local council parking enforcement uses camera cars. The bloke just parks up on the high street for hours on end (illegal in itself) and plays with his phone the whole time. I don't think a week goes by without at least one complaint about him on our local Facebook group.
 
Apparently there has been some recent cases of people getting off of the charge because they weren't actively talking on the phone or texting. The law also covers being in command of a stationary vehicle with the engine running, the vehicle doesn't actually have to be moving.

Hadn't heard about those cases. In some ways videoing something could be considered as dangerous, if not more so, than speaking on a handheld phone. I can imagine someone continually looking at the screen to make sure they got a video of what they wanted.

About 10 years ago I was on a speed awareness course. On the course someone asked about the rules about phones and driving. The answer was that the law considered if the key was in the ignition (even if the engine was not on) then you were in charge of the car and could be liable to prosecution if you were using a handheld phone. Don't know if the law has changed.

Dave
 
Hadn't heard about those cases. In some ways videoing something could be considered as dangerous, if not more so, than speaking on a handheld phone. I can imagine someone continually looking at the screen to make sure they got a video of what they wanted.

About 10 years ago I was on a speed awareness course. On the course someone asked about the rules about phones and driving. The answer was that the law considered if the key was in the ignition (even if the engine was not on) then you were in charge of the car and could be liable to prosecution if you were using a handheld phone. Don't know if the law has changed.

Dave
What about keyless entry cars? I can have my key in my pocket with the engine switched off or on.
 
I can only go by the amount of idiots in car parks who used to walk in front of my then company car (Lexus Hybrid) - far more often than when driving petrol cars.


As Marc points out, idiots will always be idiots! I get people stepping out in front of me when I'm on the Speedmaster - NOT a quiet bike!
 
Our local council parking enforcement uses camera cars. The bloke just parks up on the high street for hours on end (illegal in itself)
If correcly authorised under a byelaw or statute it's not illegal. Have you checked with the council if that's the case?
 
Is this just one step to having the driver completely cut off from all passengers so that they cannot distract him.
 
If correcly authorised under a byelaw or statute it's not illegal. Have you checked with the council if that's the case?
I have never actually seen him myself, I only go into our town about once a fortnight to get petrol. Rest of the time I stay well clear. From what I understand of where he actually parks, he is right next to the local park/recreation ground and opposite a school. I know cars aren't allowed to keep engines running whilst in the vicinity of our three closest schools, I would be surprised if this one was any different.
 
I can't see this happen, if it does it would also need to cover ANY voice system, no Carplay, no Android Auto, no generic voice systems (BMW for instance).

What about a conversation with the passenger? How is that any different? Are we expected to silently drive with the family in the car?

Utterly ridiculous idea....
 


Interesting, especially as the case is recent and clearly at odds with this - https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law,

but then there is this - https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q955.htm.

I think the law needs some clarity, but assuming that is not going to happen soon then, if any guidance is really needed, the first link seems to be the way to go IMO.

Dave
 
aw b*****ks just bought a car with hands free capability :exit::exit::exit:
 
What about a conversation with the passenger? How is that any different? Are we expected to silently drive with the family in the car?

Passengers are generally vaguely aware of what's happening so will STFU if/when necessary. I always ask the MiL to keep talking to a minimum when I'm driving too! :D

All our cars have hands free as an option but I have turned it off on my phone to avoid being distracted by calls. I know when my phone has rung so check it next time I'm parked - nothings important enough to risk other people's safety IMO.
 
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Another worrying trend is the amount of drivers holding an electric steam fag tank in one hand whilst driving with the other

I don't care if its electric or other type of weed, smoking (the act of) and the effect of should be far greater concern to our safety. I even still see plonkers using phone in their hand while driving. Not many, but they are out and posing danger.

Handsfree is no more dangerous than talking to a passenger. Perhaps the commission should look into banning those annoying things too.
 
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