Varnishing? (vs top of the line gloss canvas)

[LongLensPhotography]

I've done a few canvas for personal consumption at this stage (but may eventually take it to the next step). They are on what appears to be a cheapo polycotton matte that came with the printer. All looks OK for now.

Most places suggest some sort of varnish. I see there are two types. The liquid water based ones (1L and up) and sprays like Ghiant (£10 for 400ml can).

The first and main question is how far would each go per square meter of print?

Furthermore, how easy is it to f-up the print on application with either?

Finally, Breathing Color premium gloss or metallic canvas options do not require any varnish. The price tag is a lot heftier than budget one. How does that play out in the end with the maths? Are any other gloss canvas options OK without varnish? I much prefer gloss or satin to matte actually.

 

[Harlequin565]

Marrutt do an amazing reassuringly heavyweight (380gsm) glossy canvas that I thought was superb. https://www.marrutt.com/inkjet-pape...pers/marrutt-380gsm-ultra-glossy-canvas-paper
It's lol expensive though unfortunately.

I too have yet to find a matt canvas I like - well, any canvas actually - apart from the Marrutt one. Off the back of the Marrutt ones, I got a Permajet test pack. Rubbish.

I've also resin coated a print. Three times. Because I f'd it up. I can only imagine I'd cock things up just as badly with varnish. My main issue was dust - I just don't have a dust free environment. I mean, I've got rooms, but even the conservatory with virtually no fabrics or through draughts from people walking past still caused dust bits on the surface. An experiment that was nice to try, but never again. If varnish collects dust like resin, I'd avoid.

Ultimately, if I had to go canvas, I'd go Marrutt.

 

[Unlocker]

We have the Hahnemuhle Daguerre 400 gsm and Leonardo 390 gsm Fine Art canvasses with the Hahnemuhle varnish, both an older and newer formula.

Printing from a Canon iPF 6450, we found that no matter what we tried, rolling on the varnish removed ink from the canvas. We had the head of Hahnemuhle UK here twice and got the Germany head office involved too and came to the conclusion that it was never going to work with my printer. As canvas printing is a very small part of what we do here, we're actually dropping canvas printing next year as it's just not worth the time exploring other options.

Breathing Color did come up favourably in our research but we never got round to trying out any samples as the previous experience in time and expense put us off.

The canvasses themselves are really nice though! (Matt on top, gloss on bottom)

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Printing from a Canon iPF 6450, we found that no matter what we tried, rolling on the varnish removed ink from the canvas.

Thanks. Thats near enough what I use so I will not bother any further in that case. It is too messy and toxic anyway. I probably could never get a dust free environment needed for it.

So that takes me straight to the last option - glossy canvas that doesn't require varnish. Breathing colour glossy "Crystalline" description on their site suggests one is only optional

No varnish required. Print and stretch immediately

; "Silverada" is not compatible with varnish. But that's pretty expensive for playing around unless of course I am selling them on to paying customers.
North light suggests INNOVA type36 can also be used without varnish, although I can't confirm this with the manufacturers description. Cost is only marginally lower.

Does that make any glossy canvas OK without varnish or just these few special ones?

I don't expect to do many, but you never know.

 

[Unlocker]

Apparently it was a Canon / Hahnemuhle combo that didn't work and that other canvas brands were fine, there's a good chance I lucked out on the worst option when I was testing, genuinely can't fault their customer service though, they bent over backwards trying to help. Looking through my files I found the video they sent me from Germany where they had no issues, sent it to me, I varnished the other half (filmed it and sent it back) and the ink came off! Just found these examples too:-



The canvas itself seems really nice, here's a close up of a stretched side that shows how it looks after a couple of years -



The biggest problem I can see is giving them to customers, they never seem to listen! One solution is a higher end framing option with 2 frames and glazing between them, we've done that a couple of times, can get expensive though!

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Apparently it was a Canon / Hahnemuhle combo that didn't work and that other canvas brands were fine, there's a good chance I lucked out on the worst option when I was testing

Hmmm the only thing in that varnish that would cause this issue is actually WATER (i.e. it has no other solvent as far as I can see). And that's the really strange part. Canon IPF pigment will easily wash from anything it wasn't designed for (i.e. paint brush or fingers) but they stick absolutely forever to properly coated papers. I have literally tried soaking a normal glossy photo paper and when it dried it looked 100% like before. So I could only presume Hahnemuhle coatings are somehow incompatible with canon? That's hard to believe. Maybe you could test with a few drops of water if you have any printed scraps. You could also test some of that varnish with some other brand canvas or matt paper. That should quickly pinpoint the blame.

edit: did you allow it to dry for at least a day?

Leonardo (discontinued now???) appears to be glossy with no varnish required:

The Leonardo Canvas range from Hahnemuhle is a white, polyester cotton canvas, which guarantees archival standards. The premium high gloss coating exceeds the highest standards regarding density, colour gamut, image sharpness and colour graduation. The surface is hard wearing, water resistant and does not require varnishing. However, like any inkjet printed canvas, it is recommended to use varnish in order to protect the image.

I'd probably just risk using it unvarnished, at least for trial purposes.

Framing is clearly a matter of personal preference and matching with the interior design. I can imagine settings where it would look just right but equally some environments are better off with naked canvas.