Crumbs, thanks for the heads up that looking at these guys video's are NSFW, I am not going to check out such "bird photographers"...........Given yesterday's wash out weather. I had a bit of a trawl through YouTube and came across Simon Wantling and Nigel Morley.
May be of interest
I know they're quietly addictive It's probably because you feel you are out there with them. No product placement, just the feeling they want to share their wildlife photography encounters with a wider audienceYou’re bad, I’ve just spent half a day watching these guys when I should be doing more important stuff.
I'm in awe of Bence Matte he is still really young.............
I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't bait any animal to get a picture - I'm not criticising people who do it, it's just not something I believe is ethical - if you are happy to do that then his video is excellent, simple instruction and as you say no bumf.
It's a method that is well used. I've never tried it (apart from once at a paid hide a few years ago) and I doubt I ever will . I don't see anything essentially wrong with it, as small fish tend to congregate in small pools anyway. I think though, it all depends on the personal view of what threshhold is crossed by trapping live bait. It's not for me as my views on live bait have changed. I think it sits better to find a natrually occuring small pool, perch it and go from there, not as difficult as it sounds, shallow pools often have small fish and fry swimming in them.or maybe it's just me and this is how everyone does it, thoughts?
David what bothers you ethically about feeding /baiting?I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't bait any animal to get a picture - I'm not criticising people who do it, it's just not something I believe is ethical - if you are happy to do that then his video is excellent, simple instruction and as you say no bumf.
...... and rightly so, although Sched 1 is aimed at keeping people away from (or also too near the nest), photography well away from it is fine.my main concern here is the fact a Kingfisher is a schedule 1 bird, I'd have thought this kind of set-up especially in the wild would be frowned upon.
In the States they say 'a fed bear is a dead bear' - the wildlife agencies actively kill bears which get used to being fed by humans - that's kind of where I come from - habituating animals to being fed for a photo isn't something I'd do. As I said it's an individual choice and I'm not criticising anyone for feeding animals here.Darren cheers for sharing I'm not aware of Mike a good watch. Buddy I have no experience of kindfisher hides,or baiting I think pools and food are used alot though. The trouble is mate we have very little in the way of hard core scientific studies to show any possible adverse effects to the birds. For me there probably aren't any negatives and I'd imagine if a spot is fed regularly when the birds are struggling say youngsters learning the ropes(kingy mortality is high I believe in their first year.). The feeding station might just get them through in greater numbers, so it could be viewed as positive. We brit togs seem to worry more about the use of food in wildlife image making more than other folks round the world. I'm one of those worriers Darren. How I impinge on my subjects is a big deal to me But as of yet I can find little of substance illustrating negatives to feeding what is essentially a predatory bird,I'd lump feeding BOP in a simialr category to this
Mate what are your concerns? .
David what bothers you ethically about feeding /baiting?
Mate I'm trying this at the mo with a weasel in garden also musing some kestrels. Beyond my voles and all my garden birds I also feed oh and some badgers . I've never been able to really find a difference between putting out a peanut feeder for me garden birds and the above type of baited set up. I've tried to read up educate myself.,but always draw a blank. I consider my ethics togging wise to be high . I'm an honest guy in life my wildlife images have to reflect that , I just can't find as yet an ethical ground not to do something like the above. . I guess the bait actually being live is the bone of contention in this case but there could well be a benefit to the actual subject being photographed. Davey I know a farmer who feeds some barn owls daily a couple of chix no more nothing to do with image making . This last winter was so tough on barnies all that rain but his will come though and possibly be in a better place come the breeding season ,than if they hadn't been helped. I really struggle with this ethic thang Dave hence my Q to you I ponder it a hell of a lot. even down to my influence on a baby hare ,no bait what so ever in use there but still deep thought as to my actions and there possible implications to my subject
It 's a real emotive subject feeding needs great care and thought what always gets quoted is how the food might alter the hunting habits of the subject ,which is the bit I can find little science to substantiate I just can't see us undoing eons of evolution with some food ??
Dale I think I'd come out with you on the kiingfishers, do the homework set up a perch and not have the llve catch bait.
In many ways the ingenuity of wildlife image makers amazes me. Tanks with fish in for kingfiishers had my eye's wide open when I first became aware. I find the ethics side of what we do fascinating
take care all
Like I said, personally I won't feed wildlife to get a pic - I don't see the difference between the wild animal being a bear in North America or a carnivore we'd get in this country such as a fox or badger, it's habituating them - applies to things like deer too - one of the things that gets me is the people who feed the deer in Glen Etive - leave them alone let them be wild.yeah understood David mind we don't have bears,ha i wish
Would you not put out food for a garden bird and make a pic would that not sit well with you.? I can see the bear comparison instantly it makes total sense Mate there is no angst no judgement coming from me I'm simply interested in how we think and what drives that.