Flash trigger voltages, safe?

cowasaki

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Darren
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Is it safe to use my old flash?

I have seen this question come up numerous times so I thought I would do a mini tutorial.

flashtut001.jpg


The history and theory

Back in the time on film cameras most flashes were simple devices which explains why they were so cheap in comparison to modern flash systems such as an SB600. Basically you had a power source (usually a couple of AA batteries) which charged up one or more capacitors. This took a few moments in which time you often heard a wining noise and then once the capacitors were fully charged a small light would illuminate. In order for the camera to make the flash light all it had to do was complete a simple circuit at which point the voltage stored in the capacitor was discharged into the flash bulb. On these models you will see a voltage (trigger voltage) of typically 250V DC.

On some flashes (and all modern ones) the two contact points are not actually connected directly to the capacity but short it via a relay, transistor or similar. On these models you will see a voltage (trigger voltage) of typically 6V DC.

The circuit is complete once two small connectors are shorted out on the flash. These are the CENTRE PIN and the HOTSHOE GROUNDING POINT. These can be seen in this diagram:

flashtut003.jpg



Now that is the HOW THEY WORK question sorted but what YOU want to know is "Can I use my grandad's old flash gun on my sparkly new D3?". This is a question that we need several variables to answer.

This first thing we need to know is "What is the trigger voltage of my flash?".

Well you can often look these up the internet but the problem with this is that anyone can put things on the internet and anyone can make a mistake. You would not be happy connecting an old flash up that you read uses 6V only to find it was 256V and you now need a new DSLR!!

Don't worry it is very simple, what we need to do is place new batteries into our flash and switch it ON. Once it is fully charged we connect a multimeter across the two contact pins and read the DC voltage.

flashtut004.jpg



Right now with the probes connected to the pins (it does not matter which way round they are as we will ignore the sign in the result) we can read the trigger voltage off the multimeter's display.

flashtut005.jpg


This is the result for MY Praktica 1600A flash.

We can see this again doing the same to the other flash.

flashtut006.jpg


As can be seen, the Vivitar 16A Auto gives a different voltage.

This second thing we need to know is "What is the safe voltage for my camera?".

Right well this is something you will need to check in your manual.

The voltage of my flash is too high for the camera, is there anything I can do.

YES. There are devices that you can plug into your camera's hotshoe and attach the flash to. They are the equivalent of the extra level of circuitry that modern flashes have and are acting like a relay does with the spot lights on your car!



I have four extra posts below that I will update with the information when other TPers give me their figures! I thought that this would help us avoid answering the same question over and over again.

WARNING: As always with hardware tutorials, follow this tutorial at your own risk. I might have no idea what I am talking about :) I will not be responsible if you blow up your Nikon D3x using a £12 Sunpak flash.


Hope people like the idea.
 
Flash Trigger voltages

TTL = Safe on all DSLRs.

Nikon

SB50-DX [From manual] TTL
SB80-DX [From manual] TTL
SB400 [From manual] TTL
SB600 [From manual] (Cowasaki) 5.6V TTL
SB800 [From manual] (Cowasaki) 6V TTL
SB900 [From manual] TTL

Praktica

1600A (Cowasaki) 259.1v

Vivitar

16A Auto (Cowasaki) 234.4v
 
Safe working voltages (Nikon)

D1 Not in the manual
D1H Not in the manual
D1x Not in the manual

D2H [From manual] 250V
D2Hs [From manual] 250V
D2x [From manual] 250V
D2xs [From manual] 250V
D3 [From manual] 250V
D3x [From manual] 250V
D40 [From manual] 250V
D40x [From manual] 250V
D50 [From manual] 250V
D60 [From manual] 250V
D70 [From manual] 250V
D70s [From manual] 250V
D80 [From manual] 250V
D90 [From manual] 250V
D100 [From manual] (Steve Smith) 250V
D200 [From manual] 250V
D300 [From manual] 250V
D300s [From manual] 250V
D700 [From manual] 250V
D3000 [From manual] 250V
D5000 [From manual] 250V
 
Safe working voltages (Other)

Olympus DSLRs (who? from e-group) 250V
 
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html
is the site that I've always used for info - good list.

And according to this info
http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6648&highlight=flash+voltage
olympus dslrs are good to 250V

Thanks, I have updated the safe limits with the Olympus info.

I was just going to add measurements by TPers onto the list. The Praktica 1600A for example was measured at 222v whilst I measured it at 259v. The main point of the thread was as an explanation for people of how and why :)
 
Thanks, I have updated the safe limits with the Olympus info.

I was just going to add measurements by TPers onto the list. The Praktica 1600A for example was measured at 222v whilst I measured it at 259v. The main point of the thread was as an explanation for people of how and why :)


Fair enough. Could you copy the e-system link into the 'other' section as well?

Maybe also worth a mention that especially on older flashes there will be some variation - as you've demonstrated - either because of variable component quality or because some makers used the same designation for totally different designs. So people should always take things with a suitable pinch of salt.
 
Fair enough. Could you copy the e-system link into the 'other' section as well?

Maybe also worth a mention that especially on older flashes there will be some variation - as you've demonstrated - either because of variable component quality or because some makers used the same designation for totally different designs. So people should always take things with a suitable pinch of salt.

This is the reason for the description of how to measure it yourself. The model etc becomes irrelevant. The figures above are in order to get an idea before you try/buy one from somewhere.
 
Things are getting better now. Most cameras now will take up to 250 volts on the sync socket. Something that FUJI pioneered a long time ago. But they say up to 400 volts. That 400 rings a bell, it is the normal voltage for most SCR`s built into the camera. The reason for the high voltage is flashgun makers had a choice, high voltage and piddly trigger coil or low voltage with a good turns ratio of the primary / secondry. This is why little flashguns taking only two batteries usually have a very high trigger voltage.
 
Just for information:

The trigger voltage is derived from the HT circuit via a high value resistor charging a small capacitor. So leaving aside any leakage issues, the voltage across this small capacitor will usually be the same as that of the main capacitor. This is the sync. voltage.

When the flash is triggered, the charge in this small capacitor is applied to the trigger coil which creates a high voltage pulse to start the flash tube tube conducting.
 
If any body decides to build a basic flash unit I reccomend Maplins coils and flash tubes. never had a duff one yet. Had a lot of high voltage shocks though.
 
The reason that I did this thread was to answer all those questions from people who are asking if they can use a film generation flash on their DSLR and give a general idea of why there is a difference. I am hoping people can have a look in their manuals and quote me some safe voltages. Apparently the D60's manual shows the safe voltage but I cannot find it in either the D200 or D700 manual.
 
Apparently the D60's manual shows the safe voltage but I cannot find it in either the D200 or D700 manual.

My Nikon D100 from 2003 is o.k. up to 250v. I suspect that all subsequent Nikons would be the same.


Steve.
 
I always use a wein safe sync if I'm using any older flash guns, makes it one less thing to worry about then
 
I always use a wein safe sync if I'm using any older flash guns, makes it one less thing to worry about then

They cost about as much as a cheapo flash gun though :)

They are ideal but if the manufacturer allows 250V and the flash is 234V then it is safe.
 
Working my way through all the Nikon range now adding the voltages. They all appear to be 250V but checking them anyway.
 
That is true, I use it with an old modified vivitar jobbie for flash microghraphy and it's definitely a good piece of mind knowing that it's been heavily modded and it won't destroy my nice camera

They cost about as much as a cheapo flash gun though :)

They are ideal but if the manufacturer allows 250V and the flash is 234V then it is safe.
 
Right, thats all the Nikon camera range now listed. The only 3 that do not mention the safe voltage are the D1, D1x & D1h - I would GUESS that this is because they were built to work using existing flashes (i.e. film flashes) and would work with any of those. I would guess they are also ok up to 250V but this has not been tested so you would do so entirely at your own risk!!
 
Canon 5D and 5DII:
- do not connect to the camera's PC terminal any flash unit requiring 250v or more
- do not attach a high-voltage flash unit on the camera's hot shoe. It might not fire
:shrug:
 
Canon 5D and 5DII:
- do not connect to the camera's PC terminal any flash unit requiring 250v or more
- do not attach a high-voltage flash unit on the camera's hot shoe. It might not fire
:shrug:

hmmmm that looks like the Canon 5D are not safe with 250v on the hot shoe. I seem to remember someone saying 24v for Canon but I can't remember where so didn't quote it.
 
Just thought I would put my money where my mouth is.....

Just tested the Vivitar 16A on the Nikon D200 and it works fine.
 
Thanks, I will add that. Just added the D40 too.

The D40 manual warns against negative voltages as well as voltages over 250V.
Not sure if there are any flashes with negative voltages though?

Very useful thread, thanks.
 
Iv wired together :bonk:

National pe-201c, Praktica 1600a, Olympia hand flash (all from carboot) so they flashed together on my D90 and it works a treat.

Also the Miranda 630-cd works fine also.

Del.
 
hmmmm that looks like the Canon 5D are not safe with 250v on the hot shoe. I seem to remember someone saying 24v for Canon but I can't remember where so didn't quote it.

I posted my opinion on Canon's caution on another thread. Someone was saying that high voltages were o.k. on a sync. socket but not the hotshoe. I think this is more to do with the possibility of shorting out the centre pin of the flash with one of the other pins rather than the capability of the trigger connection.


Steve.
 
Iv wired together :bonk:

National pe-201c, Praktica 1600a, Olympia hand flash (all from carboot) so they flashed together on my D90 and it works a treat.

Also the Miranda 630-cd works fine also.

Del.

Do you have access to a multimeter to test the voltage?

My 1600A shows as 259V which is beyond the maximum allowed (although probably still safe I wouldn't personally risk it).
 
COURTENAY studio flash are 20 vols negative. Works OK on my adaptor, not sure about my new INTERFIT transceiver though.
 
Nearly lost it again.

I've just tested my Wotan C250 - studio flash gun and the trigger voltage is 6v.

That's good news as it means I have four flashes to use with my new ebay triggers.
 
Nearly lost it again.

I've just tested my Wotan C250 - studio flash gun and the trigger voltage is 6v.

That's good news as it means I have four flashes to use with my new ebay triggers.

If you blow the triggers up I have done a thread on how to repair them :)
 
That's useful, not that I intend to blow them up though. It's definitely going to be handy to have a flash gun that I'm not too worried about to position in dodgy spots.
 
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