Dilema - returning to a DSLR from Micro 4/3

bl0at3r

bl0at3r

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Alan
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Ok, so it is clear that I am truly mental (y)

Having recently sold all (7d plus 5 lenses and a speedlite!!) of my canon gear to adopt the m4/3 system exclusively, I can't help feeling a little let down by it....

I initially acknowledged and was prepared to accept the compromises - high iso noise, low fps, contrast focus, lack of true optical finder (oh how I miss this!) and the issues this creates with panning due to the blacking out between shots and high light levels washing out the LCD.

But, to be honest, having recently given my G1 /GF1 combo a work out I am finding that the keeper rate is much lower than that of my 7d - it is clearly a far superior system.

So, in true mentalist style, I am now considering my options....

1. Stay as I am - GF1&20mm for most occasions plus G1&14-45mm for times when evf is required and live with compromises and stop looking for reasons to buy a new camera!

2. Sell it all and start from scratch with a DSLR - budget of £2500 inc monies from lumix kit, obviously not tied to any particular manufacturer now.

3. Keep the GF1&20mm combo, accept it's limitations and buy a cheaper DSLR as a companion to the gf1 - a D90 or 550D for example or would these be too much of a step down from the 7D I would be using as a benchmark.

Your help would be much appreciated (y)
 
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It depends what you want from the camera. For me the GF1 produced some wonderful pictures and I was amazed at what this little beauty could do. At that point I had only ever owned compact cameras and the G1O bridge camera.

Once I bought a DSLR the difference was there to see but in the trade I gave up the convenience of having a camera in my pocket. Which mean't I moved from going out on trips and taking photos to going on trips to take photos. As a result I probably shoot less. It's a no win situation unless you have both!

I still think my D700 was overkill for the amount of time I use it but when I have it's been lovely.

Tough call, especially as you might change your mind again in a few months and be back to square one. I know that feeling!

I say stick with it and remember it's the photographer not the metal!


.
 
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I'd keep the Lumix I honestly can't see me selling mine until the net gen comes along.

Having said that it is not a substitue for a DSLR in many situations.

Keep the GF1 and buy a DSLR.
 
gingerweasel said:
It depends what you want from the camera. For me the GF1 produced some wonderful pictures and I was amazed at what this little beauty could do.

Once I bought a DSLR the difference was there to see but in the trade I gave up the convenience of having a camera in my pocket. Which mean't I moved from going out on trips and taking photos to going on trips to take photos. As a result I probably shoot less. It's a no win situation unless you have both

Tough call, especially as you might change your mind again in a few months and be back to square one. I know that feeling!

I say stick with it and remember it's the photographer not the metal!
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Thanks John,
I change my mind almost as often as AndyWest!!
My current thoughts are to go with option 3, therefore having a smaller camera to take with me and the DSLR for specific photo taking trips or where I am not bothered about the extra weight.

Maybe a 40d, 500d/550d or a d90 (anyone know if the price will drop soon??)

Anyone else?
 
Hi Alan, dithering again mate? lol

I would hang onto the GF1/20mm combo for carrying around in general, get the EVF for it and maybe a cheap 14-45 to round it off.

500D's have come down a lot in price lately, pop into cameraworld and grab a 500D body or a 50D body cheap and a couple of lenses, I would suggest a 17-50 tamron as its a cracker for the money.
They will probably take any unwanted kit in PX if you want a quick deal.
I would suggest out of the two the 50D as its the nearest to your old 7D, or just say to hell with it and get another 7D
 
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I love the GF1 but the RAW files just do not have anywhere near the kind of latitude that I get from the D700 and the autofocus is obviously not as good either. I love it as a supplementary system that gives me a small package when I need it together with decent video that the D700 doesn't have.
 
iancandler said:
Hi Alan, dithering again mate? lol

I would hang onto the GF1/20mm combo for carrying around in general, get the EVF for it and maybe a cheap 14-45 to round it off.

500D's have come down a lot in price lately, pop into cameraworld and grab a 500D body or a 50D body cheap and a couple of lenses, I would suggest a 17-50 tamron as its a cracker for the money.
They will probably take any unwanted kit in PX if you want a quick deal.
I would suggest out of the two the 50D as its the nearest to your old 7D, or just say to hell with it and get another 7D
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Hi Ian, Yes spending more time worrying about kit than taking pictures as usual !!! :LOL:

Been looking at Nikon options as well as Canon, but having had Canon bodies previously I am more comfortable with the specs, models etc.

I am pretty keen to keep the GF1&20mm, have tried the 14-45 from my G1 on it but I am not as impressed as the 20mm prime. The 20mm is super fast and pin sharp, the 14-45 just lags behind but makes the GF far too cumbersome.

I'll probably sell the G1 &14-45mm kit, which is only about 2 months old and has around 1000 clicks on it and keep little Geoff. Then get a DSLR for other occasions
 
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ShawWellPete said:
I love the GF1 but the RAW files just do not have anywhere near the kind of latitude that I get from the D700 and the autofocus is obviously not as good either. I love it as a supplementary system that gives me a small package when I need it together with decent video that the D700 doesn't have.
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Hey Pete, how's the PS3?
Agreed, the raw files are a little off the mark, the jpgs out of the camera are mighty impressive though.

I have come to that very conclusion - m4/3 and specifically the gf1&20mm is indeed a supplementary system for a DSLR and has certain compromises I just can't live with - and obviously until recently I had the 7D to fall back on - oh I wish I had hindsight :bonk:
 
I would sell all and get a decent dslr rather than get a cheaper one. You'll probably only end up changing that for a better dlsr and lose money.

I had a gf1, and it's a great bit of kit. I missed similar things to you, and got a G2 primarily for a nice evf.

I now have none of it, but do have a 5D mark ii and a couple of nice lenses. There's no substitute really (yet).
 
I can completely empathize with where you currently are.
I owned a D300 and a variety of lenses and found I wasn't taking it out due to it's size. So, I sold up and went with a gf1 only to find I still don't take it out.
In hindsight I should have kept the nikon and bought an lx3 or similar.

My intention is to dip back into a 'full size' slr (maybe a d90 or 40d) for when I know I'm going to be photographing, sell the gf1, and get something smaller and more pocketable for those spur of the moment shots.
 
py6km said:
There's no substitute really (yet).
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There is always the Leica M9 ;)

Seriously though you need to ask yourself what you want out of it. Are you someone who wants to plan trips around your photography, or fit your photography into everyday life?

I struggle to decide too ...
 
I definitely wouldn't sell the GF1. GF1 and 20mm is just such a small powerful combo and a joy to use. I plan on getting a DSLR too though when I can afford it - it's looking like the new D7000 at the moment but we'll see.
 
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Keep the GF1 + 20. Sell the rest. Get a 5D Mk1 with a relatively cheap Tamron 28-75 which is almost as good as a 24-105L. Sorted.
 
I'm in the same position, I sold my D700 for m4/3. I currently have a G1, GF1 and E-P1 along with a bunch on lens. I love the system and it's great for when you want to go light.

But lately I've found myself hankering after a DSLR, I'll probably go D90 or 550d and some lens (although the D700 is still calling me). I will keep my m4/3 gear as I think it sits nicely with a DSLR especially when on holiday or going for a walk and you don't want to carry all your dslr gear.
 
Willo said:
I'm in the same position, I sold my D700 for m4/3. I currently have a G1, GF1 and E-P1 along with a bunch on lens. I love the system and it's great for when you want to go light.

But lately I've found myself hankering after a DSLR, I'll probably go D90 or 550d and some lens (although the D700 is still calling me). I will keep my m4/3 gear as I think it sits nicely with a DSLR especially when on holiday or going for a walk and you don't want to carry all your dslr gear.
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Exactly.

I think the GF1 compliments a DSLR in the same way as my iPad compliments my desktop pc. They both have strengths and weaknesses.

I should never have sold my 7D if truth be told, as I lost about £250 on the body alone:bonk:

I do this to myself all the time, such as recently selling my MX5 and now not being able to afford a newer one - which was the reason I sold it in the 1st place!

I am leaning toward the D90, does anyone think the price is likely to fall further now that the D7000 is real?

If I spend loads on the dslr I'll be back in the same position as I was with the 7D - feeling bad having expensive gear sitting in the cupboard not being used.
:bang::bang:
 
bl0at3r said:
If I spend loads on the dslr I'll be back in the same position as I was with the 7D - feeling bad having expensive gear sitting in the cupboard not being used.
:bang::bang:
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But if you sell it you will miss it and end up buying another one, it's a tough one. You need to think of the situations in which you would use it and then decide if it's worth selling it. I had the same decision when I sold my D700, would it sit on the shelf whilst I used my GF1 solely, with hindsight I wish I kept it.

I'm not sure on the D90 price, I keep hearing it will slot between the D7000 and D300. If you can wait for a month I'm sure there will be a fair few floating around in the classifieds.
 
I dont know if the price will fall more Alan but for gods sake DO NOT get lured by camerabox's prices on it, brother bought one the other week and its an import with no paperwork and no uk warranty with anyone other than camerabox, who's aftersales service seems to range from bolshy to nasty.
 
The D7000 is not replacing the D90, but slots in above it according to Nikon. The D90 continues to be produced so the new price will probably not fall substantially within the next 6 months or so.
However, I think that there are going to be a lot of S/H D90s on the market when the D7000 launches next month and people scramble to upgrade.
 
iancandler said:
I dont know if the price will fall more Alan but for gods sake DO NOT get lured by camerabox's prices on it, brother bought one the other week and its an import with no paperwork and no uk warranty with anyone other than camerabox, who's aftersales service seems to range from bolshy to nasty.
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Thanks for the tip Ian, I have heard about that kind of skullduggery before...

jomike said:
The D7000 is not replacing the D90, but slots in above it according to Nikon. The D90 continues to be produced so the new price will probably not fall substantially within the next 6 months or so.
However, I think that there are going to be a lot of S/H D90s on the market when the D7000 launches next month and people scramble to upgrade.
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Oh, my bad then, I assumed it was replacing -why do we need so many different models :wacky:

Thanks
 
I think m4/3 has been somewhat hyped and I do note that folks buy them and quickly sell them (5 out of the top 6 threads in the Other Classified are for mirrorless bodies.. http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=86)

So probably you are seeing what is probably fairly typical. If you are used to DSLR quality, a small body with a so-so sensor isn't going to cut it.

The idea of small camera with DSLR quality seems to be a Holy Grail - understandably so! - but for anyone used to DSLR quality, it seems clear you need to accept compromises.
 
Well it's a great time to be buying...there's some cracking cameras coming out at the moment. What will you be shooting? Personally I'd take a really decent body and a second hand lower model. Then a bunch of lenses. Reason I'd go with a lower model (of the same mount) is that you have the light option that the G1 gives you, but with better IQ (assuming you go with a 1.5x or 1.6x crop system).

It's for this reason that I have a 5D and 1000D :)
 
I agree about the holy Grail bit, but like you don't think they have it nailed just yet - maybe the GF3 or G4 will address the limitations of the current models.

Maybe I have just been unlucky recently but the last few outings with the G1 have been an underwhelming mixed bag of results, I find the GF1&20mm the best combo to squeeze the most out of the m4/3 system.

I still need a dslr for ...

Lowlight - iso performance and optical finder
Fast action - fps and optical finder for panning
Ultra wide - due to limited m4/3 lenses and 2x crop
Optical finder - as above for panning and lowlight plus extremely bright situations
Presence - bigger is sometimes better
 
bl0at3r said:
Thanks John,
I change my mind almost as often as AndyWest!!
My current thoughts are to go with option 3, therefore having a smaller camera to take with me and the DSLR for specific photo taking trips or where I am not bothered about the extra weight.

Maybe a 40d, 500d/550d or a d90 (anyone know if the price will drop soon??)

Anyone else?
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Mate, you are welcome to take over from me at any time :D

After selling my Canon gear due to no job all I am left with is a GF1 with 20mm, 14-45mm and a Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.4 Nikon fitting. I have secured another job all be it for 2-3 months but it pays well so am looking to get something else in the near future. Seeing as all my Canon stuff has gone I have been thinking about a Nikon D90 I have wanted to try one for ages and ages but have always gone the Canon route as I always had lenses or canon adapters knocking about. This may now be the time to pick up a used D90 to see if it does the trick.

I know what you mean about the 4/3 system as I find it not quite up to DSLR quality but far better than compacts! I think seeing as the RAW is not great I may just run the GF1 in Jpeg mode and see what it comes out with. I'm going to keep my GF1 until the GF2 comes along but do feel that compacts just don't cut the mustard, even the Panasonic LX5 has something about it in the images that I'm not keen on. SO the next camera is going to have to be APS-C sensor and the D90 is what I'm going to look at next......possibly! :D
 
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Andy I'm glad things have shown improvement on the job front, do you work in IT by any chance?

I'm in a silimar situation with my company moving soon, one minute I look safe the next I'm not. I made the choice to go ahead and pickup the D700, this may turn out to be a bad move the way things are going. For me the GF1 is an excellent camera in its class and is a million times more portable than a full rig.

The Sony NEX range looks pretty good with the larger sensor, would be interesting to hear from some owners. However the price of the tele is a bit much (over £600 for the 18-200).
 
I don't see the same issues as what some people are saying about the raw files out of the GF1 not being up to scratch.

Here's a set I shot with it and here's a 100% crop of this image.

P1010179-2_-3_crop.jpg



Untitled by DigitalRelish, on Flickr
 
Same here Will, I could never knock the GF1 in that respect - some of the best candids I have of my kids came from the various GF1s I've owned. Always pin sharp with the 20mm.
 
puddleduck said:
I think m4/3 has been somewhat hyped and I do note that folks buy them and quickly sell them (5 out of the top 6 threads in the Other Classified are for mirrorless bodies.. http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=86)

So probably you are seeing what is probably fairly typical. If you are used to DSLR quality, a small body with a so-so sensor isn't going to cut it.

The idea of small camera with DSLR quality seems to be a Holy Grail - understandably so! - but for anyone used to DSLR quality, it seems clear you need to accept compromises.
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The problem, as far as I see, is that a lot of people bought into the m4/3 system expecting a camera with a much smaller sensor to produce images as good as, if not better, than one with a larger one. M4/3 is better viewed as an improvement on the compact camera 1/125" format than as replacement for APS-C or indeed, as many seem to have taken it, full frame.
 
gingerweasel said:
Andy I'm glad things have shown improvement on the job front, do you work in IT by any chance?

I'm in a silimar situation with my company moving soon, one minute I look safe the next I'm not. I made the choice to go ahead and pickup the D700, this may turn out to be a bad move the way things are going. For me the GF1 is an excellent camera in its class and is a million times more portable than a full rig.

The Sony NEX range looks pretty good with the larger sensor, would be interesting to hear from some owners. However the price of the tele is a bit much (over £600 for the 18-200).
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Hi Mate.

I work for Surrey Police as someone who covers for sickness, maternity leave, special projects or anything else where they need someone to 'fill in'. All was fine but many departments have moved to Guildford which is too far for me as I'm still the one who needs to be around for the kids. Work is in VERY short supply as they are trying to save money in every department. I need to find a more permanent job but there's not much out there and what there is is getting loads of applicants. It's very annoying.

I looked at the Sony NEX system and found the image quality to be fairly poor compared to DSLRs and even 4/3 systems. But I don't have the camera myself so I can't really comment that strongly, I just go by what reviewers, customers and flickr images say. Also it's too similar in size and function to the GF1 so no use at all.
 
DigitalRelish said:
I don't see the same issues as what some people are saying about the raw files out of the GF1 not being up to scratch.
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Great shot.

I agree, I've been testing out a few good DSLRs recently and at lower ISOs there is no real difference in IQ imo. The AF and burst speed is an issue in some situations but not most of the time.
 
Alan, I can't say that I can really help, except that I have a 7D and a recently acquired 17-55 f2.8. When I go out, I put this combination, together with my 70-200 f4 and a flash unit into a Lowpro Slingshot 200. It's light, small and has enough space to take one or two additional items in the pockets (Iphone & wallet).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it should never be an excuse not to take your camera - it's easy when you get used to it.

As for a new body, well you're used to the Canon system, and many say that the 550D is a "baby 7D", so maybe that's the way to go. Just make sure you get a small bag so it's easy to take out with you....

Steve
 
The idea of small camera with DSLR quality seems to be a Holy Grail - understandably so! - but for anyone used to DSLR quality, it seems clear you need to accept compromises.
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The holy grail exists, is compact, full frame and exceptional image quality, certainly comparable to a good DSLR, lenses as sharp as a sharp thing on a razors edge and clarity to die for..

The downside is its name is Leica and will cost over 4 x 7D's just for the body (M9) plus between 1 and 4 grand per lens.
The only upside to the lenses is apparently if you carry more than 2 with one on the camera your not really a proper Leica man lol.
 
iancandler said:
The downside is its name is Leica and will cost over 4 x 7D's just for the body (M9) plus between 1 and 4 grand per lens.
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Ah, but it has a red dot on it, and its scentifically proven that if you slap a red dot on a Panasonic and call it a Leica people will pay lots more it :nuts:

So as this really is a Leica - with a red dot everyone pays £££££ for! - its probably good value ;)
 
I'm decided ... I'm going back to m4/3rds.

Sick to death of all this camera equipment, ever since I started getting more serious about my photography I've spent more time equipment shopping and obsessing over the latest and greatest. It's cost me a fortune and quite frankly started to ruin what was once a really enjoyable past time.

Yes I like to take pictures but the enjoyable part for me was always the finished image - not the process of taking it.

If only I'd realised this several months ago I'd have heavier pockets.
 
gingerweasel said:
I'm decided ... I'm going back to m4/3rds.

Sick to death of all this camera equipment, ever since I started getting more serious about my photography I've spent more time equipment shopping and obsessing over the latest and greatest. It's cost me a fortune and quite frankly started to ruin what was once a really enjoyable past time.

Yes I like to take pictures but the enjoyable part for me was always the finished image - not the process of taking it.

If only I'd realised this several months ago I'd have heavier pockets.
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There's a mint G1 in the classifieds owned by myself ;-)
 
For me what you really need to do at this point is stop and think about what you are doing, you admit that you made a rash quick decision to ditch your 7d and now you are lett history repeat itself with your Lumix gear. Don't buy are sell anything, take a few months take lots of pictures and enjoy your gear then after that re-asses properly and objectively what you want from you kit and if that is possible with the Lumix gear. Jumping wildly from system to system is only going to cost you money and isn't realistically going to make a massive difference to your pictures.
 
bl0at3r said:
Hey Pete, how's the PS3?
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Unfortunately stolen in a burglary together with all of my lenses. :(

Still waiting to see if the insurance pays out...


DigitalRelish said:
I don't see the same issues as what some people are saying about the raw files out of the GF1 not being up to scratch.

Here's a set I shot with it and here's a 100% crop of this image.

P1010179-2_-3_crop.jpg



Untitled by DigitalRelish, on Flickr
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That is a great shot and the GF1 is capable of getting fantastic detail if you nail the exposure. I have got a bit spoilt with what is achievable with a D700 and the sliders in Lightroom, you can push the RAW so much more without getting any noise.

With the GF1 the RAW file is much less maleable so I have to be more careful with the exposure and lighting. Because of this, I find there is less reason to use RAW at all on the GF1, it helps that the JPEGs are really good.
 
gingerweasel said:
I'm decided ... I'm going back to m4/3rds.

Sick to death of all this camera equipment, ever since I started getting more serious about my photography I've spent more time equipment shopping and obsessing over the latest and greatest. It's cost me a fortune and quite frankly started to ruin what was once a really enjoyable past time.

Yes I like to take pictures but the enjoyable part for me was always the finished image - not the process of taking it.

If only I'd realised this several months ago I'd have heavier pockets.
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Oh my giddy aunt - not again!! Mate, seriously, if you ditch your D700 etc now won't you be even more out of pocket? It's a seriously good camera and not really that big or heavy - just stick a 50mm on it and it's ideal. If work is scarce for you, wouldn't it be better to maintain the status quo with a camera that most people aspire to?
 
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gingerweasel said:
I'm decided ... I'm going back to m4/rds.

Sick to death of all this camera equipment, ever since I started getting more serious about my photography I've spent more time equipment shopping and obsessing over the latest and greatest. It's cost me a fortune and quite frankly started to ruin what was once a really enjoyable past time.

Yes I like to take pictures but the enjoyable part for me was always the finished image - not the process of taking it.

If only I'd realised this several months ago I'd have heavier pockets.
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John, 4/3 cameras need just as much effort as DSLRs in order to get the best from them. Conversely, your D700 can be just automatic as a compact.

Personally, I think you'd save money in the long run by getting a compact or 4/3 as well as keeping your D700.
 
Hi Will, I don't mind taking a bit of time to setup a shot in terms of composition or manual exposure but the whole equipment element of photography has taken over.

"Hi I'm John and I'm an equipment whore"

I've also switched from going out on trips and carrying along a camera to going on trips specifically to use the camera which just isn't as enjoyable.

I want to wind back the clock and pick up were I left off before all this madness - a nice camera than produces useable pictures of the kids and is handy for other pictures when I want more.

I'm just going to pickup an E-P2, Panny 20mm for indoor shots in lowlight and the 14-45mm for more generalised stuff. Sod the wide angle, sod the superzoom.
 
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