50mm landscape lens recommendation

[Cloudbreak]

Hi there. Can anyone recommend a 50mm lens for landscape photography which produces good realistic results. My current lens (Sigma 50mm F/1.4 EX DG HSM) doesn’t do shadows very well and doesn’t replicate the details you see with your eye at all. I know my iPhone has all sorts of extra trickery but in truth it’s a much truer representation in terms of shadow details. Any help very much appreciated.

 

[Plain Nev]

What are you using it on?

 

[billgatese30]

And are you shooting raw or jpeg?

 

[ashishtamhane]

Hi there. Can anyone recommend a 50mm lens for landscape photography which produces good realistic results. My current lens (Sigma 50mm F/1.4 EX DG HSM) doesn’t do shadows very well and doesn’t replicate the details you see with your eye at all.

Short answer which might save you some cash: The lens is not at fault.

Probably the processing technique is way different from the iPhone.

 

[LeeRatters]

Short answer which might save you some cash: The lens is not at fault.

Probably the processing technique is way different from the iPhone.

This ^^^^

It's going to be the PP or the sensor it's captured on that is the reason for your 'issue'

 

[stumac]

I used that very lens for weddings for years and it's a great lens . I'm guessing the problem is something else . It sounds to me like you need to read up and understand exposure along with your cameras dynamic range limits ......what to expose for and how to properly edit said image one taken .

 

[Box Brownie]

Hi and welcome to TP

If, based on your profile, you are using a Canon 5D mk3 that is a fine camera.

Therefore perhaps if you could explain your workflow e.g. :-
Jpeg's and custom in camera settings?
Jpeg and/or raw shooting but what editing software and just what is your workflow to create the final result.

Lastly and stating the obvious, yes your iPhone is doing the heavy lifting (computational photography) whereas the canon files require your effort to achieve a meaningful result

Also, why not post some pictures to show an example of the problem your are describing?

 

[billgatese30]

Hi and welcome to TP

If, based on your profile, you are using a Canon 5D mk3 that is a fine camera.

Therefore perhaps if you could explain your workflow e.g. :-
Jpeg's and custom in camera settings?
Jpeg and/or raw shooting but what editing software and just what is your workflow to create the final result.

Lastly and stating the obvious, yes your iPhone is doing the heavy lifting (computational photography) whereas the canon files require your effort to achieve a meaningful result

Also, why not post some pictures to show an example of the problem your are describing?

Shooting with a 5diii myself I would agree with the above, you can recover from the shadows quite well, but the image straight out of the camera can be quite flat.

 

[Phil V]

I was about to chip in that the lens isn’t the issue; but @Box Brownie has given the full answer.

No lens or even better camera isn’t going to give better results straight out of camera.

 

[Cloudbreak]

Wow thanks for all the replies. I’m definitely aware that my phone camera uses software to boost shadows - I just want to be able to use the photos straight out of my camera without editing each one. I’ve tried changing the picture styles but maybe need to experiment further. My main question was if anyone knew of a 50mm lens which gave faithful results regarding shadow details.

Thanks for all the comments - I’m still going through them all tbh.

 

[Cloudbreak]

Hi and welcome to TP

If, based on your profile, you are using a Canon 5D mk3 that is a fine camera.

Therefore perhaps if you could explain your workflow e.g. :-
Jpeg's and custom in camera settings?
Jpeg and/or raw shooting but what editing software and just what is your workflow to create the final result.

Lastly and stating the obvious, yes your iPhone is doing the heavy lifting (computational photography) whereas the canon files require your effort to achieve a meaningful result

Also, why not post some pictures to show an example of the problem your are describing?

Hi there. Very much appreciate your reply so thank you. I’m an architectural visualiser and the purpose of the photos is to use them as backgrounds for photomontages produced to show proposed developments for architects to include in legal planning documents. My background is in architectural 3D modelling so the photography side, although being something I’ve always been interested in, is definitely a much smaller part of my job. Part of the technical process of producing the photomontages involves obtaining gps coordinates of various objects within the photo so I can accurately place the development in it and therefore I need to identify certain markers to ask the surveyors to get the real world location of. Bear with me - the point of explaining all of this boring stuff is that when I’m actually taking the photo, I can quite often see objects in shade which I want to use like fence posts but when I come to marking the photos up for the surveyors, I struggle to see the same fence post. I am trying to troubleshoot whether it’s my camera (being quite old now), my lens or just me! Generally I think I have a good handle on camera methodology and I have to use manual shooting mode to keep the lighting consistent so I don’t think it’s me. I’m certainly not arrogant enough to think that I’m beyond improving though and I’m sure I could use my camera better! Good suggestion about uploading photos - I’ll try and add some tomorrow along with my settings.

 

[Cloudbreak]

And are you shooting raw or jpeg?

I save both and normally use the jpegs for ease but maybe I just need to stick to raw?

 

[Box Brownie]

Hi there. Very much appreciate your reply so thank you. I’m an architectural visualiser and the purpose of the photos is to use them as backgrounds for photomontages produced to show proposed developments for architects to include in legal planning documents. My background is in architectural 3D modelling so the photography side, although being something I’ve always been interested in, is definitely a much smaller part of my job. Part of the technical process of producing the photomontages involves obtaining gps coordinates of various objects within the photo so I can accurately place the development in it and therefore I need to identify certain markers to ask the surveyors to get the real world location of. Bear with me - the point of explaining all of this boring stuff is that when I’m actually taking the photo, I can quite often see objects in shade which I want to use like fence posts but when I come to marking the photos up for the surveyors, I struggle to see the same fence post. I am trying to troubleshoot whether it’s my camera (being quite old now), my lens or just me! Generally I think I have a good handle on camera methodology and I have to use manual shooting mode to keep the lighting consistent so I don’t think it’s me. I’m certainly not arrogant enough to think that I’m beyond improving though and I’m sure I could use my camera better! Good suggestion about uploading photos - I’ll try and add some tomorrow along with my settings.

I find it hard to read without paragraph breaks but if I get your gist.................

I suggest you read up about Exposure Bracketing and the benefits with some subjects.

Here is page 172 of the 5d mk3 manual


PS lots of resources to dip into......

auto exposure bracketing - Google Search

 

[Sangoma]

Doesn't the 5Diii have an HDR mode?
And try to adjust the picture settings to give more what you are wanting to see.

May help, though the best answer has already been given





Edit, just got the 5Dii out to check


Yes, it does have an HDR mode, and you can choose 1, 2 or 3 EV steps

Then under Picture Style, choose User 1 (or any you want) and adjust Sharpness, contrast,saturation and colour tone


By doing those two, you may well get what you need straight out of the camera, though it may not be the best as a photo

 

[GreenNinja67]

To get the photos you want you're going to have to shoot in RAW and learn how to process them.

You'll not get what you want straight out of the camera I don't believe.

You'll have to lift the shadows to expose the detail there (we all have to do this).

So you'll need a subscription to Adobe Lightroom (or another editing package) at least.

 

[Phil V]

I just want to be able to use the photos straight out of my camera without editing each one. I’ve tried changing the picture styles but maybe need to experiment further. My main question was if anyone knew of a 50mm lens which gave faithful results regarding shadow details.

Let’s break it down

Your 50mm lens is definitely ’recording’ the detail.

If you want it ‘straight out of camera’ shooting raw isn’t going to help, you’re looking to not use the computer to get you there. The raw file needs processing. (This is the best option, but it’s not what you want)

This only leaves you with in camera processing. So you’re gonna have to look at creating a custom process Style.

The only styles I’ve ever created were for SOOC B&W images, so I’m not sure what to advise as a start point.

 

[Phil V]

To get the photos you want you're going to have to shoot in RAW and learn how to process them.

You'll not get what you want straight out of the camera I don't believe.

You'll have to lift the shadows to expose the detail there (we all have to do this).

So you'll need a subscription to Adobe Lightroom (or another editing package) at least.

Canon Camera Raw is and always has been a great raw converter.

Lightroom is genuinely only ‘better’ because of its library and batch processing abilities.

If I wasn’t hooked on Adobe, I could happily go back to the canon software for the amount that I shoot now.

Irrelevant anyway as the OP wants SOOC images.

 

[GreenNinja67]

Canon Camera Raw is and always has been a great raw converter.

Lightroom is genuinely only ‘better’ because of its library and batch processing abilities.

If I wasn’t hooked on Adobe, I could happily go back to the canon software for the amount that I shoot now.

Irrelevant anyway as the OP wants SOOC images.

I realise this but it's a tough ask to get a 12 year old camera model to produce jpegs straight out of the camera to show the shadow detail the OP needs.

If the photos are important enough it may well be worth trying a RAW processor as we all know it will do exactly what the OP wants and needs (as long as the shots are exposed correctly).

Shooting to the right of the histogram is also recommended.

 

[billgatese30]

If you want straight out of the camera JPEG's then try changing the image processing options on the camera. Up the contrast and saturation slightly and take a picture of the same scene after changing each parameter and see if it is what you are wanting to see. If not, then as PhilV says, Canon's raw converter is pretty good if you don't have any other preferred software.

If you want, post an image of what you want to recover the shadows from so we can see what you are trying to recover and perhaps advise you better.

 

[GreenNinja67]

You want to lower the contrast to see detail in shadow areas, not up it.

 

[billgatese30]

You want to lower the contrast to see detail in shadow areas, not up it.

Apologies, you're right there - brain fart moment

 

[TimHughes]

Here is a link to the canon picture style editor. Basically pick one or a create one and load into your camera.

Canon : Picture Style

 

[ecoleman]

Wow thanks for all the replies. I’m definitely aware that my phone camera uses software to boost shadows - I just want to be able to use the photos straight out of my camera without editing each one. I’ve tried changing the picture styles but maybe need to experiment further. My main question was if anyone knew of a 50mm lens which gave faithful results regarding shadow details.

Thanks for all the comments - I’m still going through them all tbh.

It has nothing to do with the lens you use. A camera has a certain dynamic range which is the range of lights and darks that it can capture. So, there are a few things that you can do to deal with this.

1. Shoot within the dynamic range of the camera. ie avoid high contrast scenes.
2. Shoot in raw and recover the shadows or highlights in post processing provided you have captured enough data. (this may not be possible in very high contrast scenes)
3. Shoot multiple frames at different exposures and blend them in post processing (often referred to as HDR or exposure blending)

Number 3 is what your phone does. When you press the button your phone will take a number of photos and then use it's built in software to blend them to make them look good. If you turn off the HDR mode of your phone then you will get the same results as your camera.

 

[Mintchocs]

A very rough but possible solution is to set the neutral picture profile and reduce the contrast setting. This should get you a bit more detail in the shadows using SOOC JPEGs.

 

[Cloudbreak]

Thanks for all the comments - I'm definitely learning more about the limitations of the kit. I subscribe to the whole CC suite so using Lightroom isn't a problem and if that's the best way to obtain more faithful results then so be it. Do people generally think a new camera would help? I've resisted upgrading to a mirrorless as this is all I really use the camera for professionally - probably only 5% of my job overall but I could sell my 5D and upgrade if I might get better results SOOC. Apologies if that's a daft question - 'would a newer camera give better results' - I'm guessing it would but just wondered if it's just a limitation of digital cameras in general that you just have to embrace in post

I said I'd try and attach an example so here is a typical viewpoint - pretty sunny day, lots of light but the detail in the shadowy foreground is terrible. I can't really push the ISO up any higher as the sky will be blown out and I'll lose the pylon in the distance which I need to be able to point out. Obviously I know the iPhone processing is completely different but it's much closer to what you actually see with your eye. The marked up one is from my phone in case you hadn't realised. Really appreciate all the help - you've all far exceeded my expectations so thanks!

 

[Cloudbreak]

I find it hard to read without paragraph breaks but if I get your gist.................

I suggest you read up about Exposure Bracketing and the benefits with some subjects.

Here is page 172 of the 5d mk3 manual
View attachment 417601

PS lots of resources to dip into......

auto exposure bracketing - Google Search

Apologies for the lack of paragraph breaks - I was writing on my phone!

Thanks for the info on AEB - I'd come across it in the manual but never played around with it so I'll definitely give it a go. Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Sangoma]

I don;t think a new camera would guarantee success

The laws of physics won't be changes

Exposure bracketing and an HDR merge would work

I don't think the HDR mode on the 5Diii would help as much

 

[Box Brownie]

Thanks for all the comments - I'm definitely learning more about the limitations of the kit. I subscribe to the whole CC suite so using Lightroom isn't a problem and if that's the best way to obtain more faithful results then so be it. Do people generally think a new camera would help? I've resisted upgrading to a mirrorless as this is all I really use the camera for professionally - probably only 5% of my job overall but I could sell my 5D and upgrade if I might get better results SOOC. Apologies if that's a daft question - 'would a newer camera give better results' - I'm guessing it would but just wondered if it's just a limitation of digital cameras in general that you just have to embrace in post

I said I'd try and attach an example so here is a typical viewpoint - pretty sunny day, lots of light but the detail in the shadowy foreground is terrible. I can't really push the ISO up any higher as the sky will be blown out and I'll lose the pylon in the distance which I need to be able to point out. Obviously I know the iPhone processing is completely different but it's much closer to what you actually see with your eye. The marked up one is from my phone in case you hadn't realised. Really appreciate all the help - you've all far exceeded my expectations so thanks!

Apologies for the lack of paragraph breaks - I was writing on my phone!

Thanks for the info on AEB - I'd come across it in the manual but never played around with it so I'll definitely give it a go. Thanks so much for your help!

IMO a new camera is simply a waste of effort and money.

If you need to 'extract' the best out of the 5D3 then shoot raw with AEB and combine those in LR (if it offers that function) and use the final output image.

If your camera phone with its internal processing suits you & your clients then also fine.

But IMO you can't have it both ways. Having said that some aspects of computational photography are creeping into the modern mirrorless bodies......but whether they will achieve what you seek you will have discover for yourself.

 

[Brentor]

Loading the camera jpg into LR on my iPad and just using auto edit brought back the shadows. This took 10 secs. A raw file would give you more flexibility in editing.

 

[billgatese30]

I just had a quick play with the JPEG and yes it is possible to bring the detail back from the shadows, less so on the sky. With the RAW file more would likely be possible (and I'm happy to do so if you email me the file).

 

[billgatese30]

I've attached some JPEGS to show what a 5D3 could give from a shot I took of High Force in bright sunlight (sadly the time of day and viewing position dictated I couldn't avoid such harsh direct light in my face!). Essentially your iPhone is doing this automatically as 99.9% of users aren't going to know/care about what it takes to get a balanced image. However a large proportion of 5D3 users will care and will want to do this editing (it was marketed at professional and high end consumers upon release).

Straight out of camera - blown out sky and little detail in the rock face.


Just bringing up the exposure shows the detail is there - however this just blows out the sky more.


If we reset the exposure, then play with the shadows and highlights sliders you can see how it only affects the darker/lighter parts of the frame.


Then if you play about with them at the same time you can get a more balanced image. If you wanted to take this a stage further you can always take multiple photos at different exposures and blend, or you can take the file and create layers for sky/details/foreground etc. and build a composite image but that sounds like more than you want to do, however I hope this shows that the camera and lens combo you have are more than enough, its just understanding what you want from the image and knowing what you need to do to get it there and do what we take for granted from our smartphone cameras.

 

[Cloudbreak]

I've attached some JPEGS to show what a 5D3 could give from a shot I took of High Force in bright sunlight (sadly the time of day and viewing position dictated I couldn't avoid such harsh direct light in my face!). Essentially your iPhone is doing this automatically as 99.9% of users aren't going to know/care about what it takes to get a balanced image. However a large proportion of 5D3 users will care and will want to do this editing (it was marketed at professional and high end consumers upon release).

Straight out of camera - blown out sky and little detail in the rock face.
View attachment 417667

Just bringing up the exposure shows the detail is there - however this just blows out the sky more.
View attachment 417668

If we reset the exposure, then play with the shadows and highlights sliders you can see how it only affects the darker/lighter parts of the frame.
View attachment 417669 View attachment 417670

Then if you play about with them at the same time you can get a more balanced image. If you wanted to take this a stage further you can always take multiple photos at different exposures and blend, or you can take the file and create layers for sky/details/foreground etc. and build a composite image but that sounds like more than you want to do, however I hope this shows that the camera and lens combo you have are more than enough, its just understanding what you want from the image and knowing what you need to do to get it there and do what we take for granted from our smartphone cameras.

View attachment 417671

Wow - thanks so much for the experimentation. My hands are tied somewhat as the photos are supposed to be devoid of any tampering. They are supposed to represent exactly what’s there and how visible a new building will be. If I’m out on site for the day I can quite easily have 500 photos so I’m trying to have a solution in camera rather than in software to just boost the shadows a little. All of this is really useful though and I’ve got several avenues to explore so I’ll take my camera outside tomorrow and play with the AEB and picture style functions and see if I can improve on what I currently have.

Thanks so much all - very much appreciated.

 

[ecoleman]

Wow - thanks so much for the experimentation. My hands are tied somewhat as the photos are supposed to be devoid of any tampering. They are supposed to represent exactly what’s there and how visible a new building will be. If I’m out on site for the day I can quite easily have 500 photos so I’m trying to have a solution in camera rather than in software to just boost the shadows a little. All of this is really useful though and I’ve got several avenues to explore so I’ll take my camera outside tomorrow and play with the AEB and picture style functions and see if I can improve on what I currently have.

Thanks so much all - very much appreciated.

Here what I would do. Shoot in raw, that’s going to give you the most data to get a balanced exposure.

ETR - Expose to the right. This is a technique that photographers use to capture the most data. What it means is that you expose the image so the the histogram is as far to the right without falling off the end. This ensures that you don’t loose data in the highlights. Search for it in YouTube for more info, there are loads of videos explaining how it works. It’s easier to recover shadow detail than it is to recover highlights.

Import the raw files into LR. Click Auto in the develop module, or even easier setup a preset to apply the auto setting as each image is imported. LR auto setting is pretty good and should get you most of the way, perhaps even all the way there.

Export the images to jpgs.

If you capture the images correctly and setup Lightroom to apply auto on import, the whole process will be largely automated.

Don’t be afraid to edit the images. What the camera sees is not representative of how a human would see things so you need to edit the images to make them look like they should to us humans. Our eyes have a much wider dynamic range and can adjust very quickly to light and dark scenes. A human eye has 18-20 stops of dynamic range whereas a camera is around 12-14 stops.

 

[TimHughes]

the photos are supposed to be devoid of any tampering.

I’d argue the phone pics have a lot of tampering going on!

Speaking of tampering, if you want to save time and have all the adjustments made in your camera, picture styles is the way to go. The adjustments described by others can be saved and applied to all your pictures. Here is a random example showing the picture style editor in action. The first image shows what the picture would look like straight out of the camera with "landscape" selected,



and the second one with a new picture style, based on landscape but with the shadows lifted.

 

[ecoleman]

I’d argue the phone pics have a lot of tampering going on!

Speaking of tampering, if you want to save time and have all the adjustments made in your camera, picture styles is the way to go. The adjustments described by others can be saved and applied to all your pictures. Here is a random example showing the picture style editor in action. The first image shows what the picture would look like straight out of the camera with "landscape" selected,

View attachment 417689

and the second one with a new picture style, based on landscape but with the shadows lifted.

View attachment 417688

I don’t think picture styles is the way to go. The style just won’t suit every image.

It’s like you importing 500 images into LR and applying exactly the same settings to every image, some will look good, some will be okay and others will look crap.

 

[TimHughes]

I don’t think picture styles is the way to go. The style just won’t suit every image.
The OP has an issue with dynamic range and that can’t be fixed with a picture profile. If it could nobody would be doing HDR or exposure blending.

Understand, I'm recommending it as a compromise solution as the OP wants results straight out of the camera and a profile with shadows lifted, for the typical scenario described, will work.

 

[arturo7]

Just a thought, maybe start with overexposing the shot?

If it is the things and features on the ground that are important, what does it matter is the sky gets washed out?

 

[Fixer]

This any good? . . .

 

[Sangoma]

Yesterday I took the 5Diii to an allotment with me, the in camera HDR was pretty ineffective (like it is in all cameras I have tried), but merging the same three shots in Affinity, it works well to increase detail in shadows, and also to increase detail in places like the top of trees against a light cloud background (light cloud as in bright, not little cloud).

That is not going to help though with 500 photos to process.

I also set a custom picture style with sharpness at max (the 5Diii's JPEGS are soft anyway), contrast at max, saturation at 75%, and using spot metering well below the skyline, and that helped a lot, but of course the sky detail was lost.
Not as good as a merge, but not too bad.

Out of your potential 500 shots, how many of them would you end up using?
Possibilities could increase if it was a lot less then the 500.

Any of the solutions suggested will have a varying effect depending on what is actually in the picture you want to see.

 

[LeeRatters]

Understand, I'm recommending it as a compromise solution as the OP wants results straight out of the camera and a profile with shadows lifted, for the typical scenario described, will work.

Well, that sort of thing certainly works and is popular for Fuji profile recipes (or whatever your want to call them) for SOOC jpegs.