A bit of nostalgia and contemplation

Capacitors break down over time, especially if they are not used, and certain kinds of transistors also degrade. Electronics has a very finite shelf life. My 'old' Minolta 7000 simply doesn't work, having been stored dry & unused for about 15 years, almost certainly because I didn't take it out & fire it up once a year.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Capacitors break down over time, especially if they are not used, and certain kinds of transistors also degrade. Electronics has a very finite shelf life. My 'old' Minolta 7000 simply doesn't work, having been stored dry & unused for about 15 years, almost certainly because I didn't take it out & fire it up once a year.
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Lots of LCD displays - especially the older ones have a bit of a "shelf life" as well - theres an awful lot of old Canon T90's and their ilk that have a completely black "multifunction display" - the top panel one - okay, these were mid/late 1980's film cameras, but they started packing in after around 10 years... compare this with a few of the older cameras in my collection - Voigtlander Perkeo I from around 1951 - 120 folding camera, about the same size/weight as a Canon G12, completely manual, down to a clockwork uncoupled shutter mechanism (uncoupled as in you need to cock it seperately from the film winding mechanism) - no metering or anything else - just a light tight box, with a belows on the front and a lens/shutter in front of that. I'm not much of a fan of the extremely old stuff, as you start getting into having to wind your own film etc. but there's something to be said for purely mechanical cameras.
 
Steve Smith said:
I was this year. Sometimes I feel like 20, other times it's more like 90.


Steve.
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Know that feeling - I'm 53 now, running to try to keep strength and mobility up and fat down, hoping my knees will hold out with the additional abuse they get. At least age does remove the need to 'prove' stuff somewhat.
 
TheBigYin said:
Lots of LCD displays - especially the older ones have a bit of a "shelf life" as well - theres an awful lot of old Canon T90's and their ilk that have a completely black "multifunction display" - the top panel one - okay, these were mid/late 1980's film cameras, but they started packing in after around 10 years... compare this with a few of the older cameras in my collection - Voigtlander Perkeo I from around 1951 - 120 folding camera, about the same size/weight as a Canon G12, completely manual, down to a clockwork uncoupled shutter mechanism (uncoupled as in you need to cock it seperately from the film winding mechanism) - no metering or anything else - just a light tight box, with a belows on the front and a lens/shutter in front of that. I'm not much of a fan of the extremely old stuff, as you start getting into having to wind your own film etc. but there's something to be said for purely mechanical cameras.
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My Mino has black bleeding into the LCD. I've not binned it yet, despite it not working. Might have to think about trying to pick up a film SLR before people start to realise they're worth something after all - I'd quite like an OM2 or maybe a Pentax LX - I'd always wanted a Nikon FE2 when I was a serious film user, but they've held their value more than many.
 
But old film cameras generally can have great picture quality even though they are old. Old digital cameras, such as 640x480 resolution or even 2Mp cameras don't yield great quality by today's standards. And worse into the future. They are just something to look at. But should not be used used with the expectation of quality.

And presumably, one day, film with become a thing of the past. So it won't matter if its mechanical and still goes click. Or if its digital and doesn't go click. They are both junk-stroke-museum pieces. Just like a dusty 286 PC from 1988 or a 2 year old smartphone.
 
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ianp5a said:
And presumably, one day, film with become a thing of the past. So it won't matter if its mechanical and still goes click. Or if its digital and doesn't go click. They are both junk-stroke-museum pieces. Just like a dusty 286 PC from 1988 or a 2 year old smartphone.
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At which point i'll get the chemistry kit out, and coat up some paper that I can drop into the back of the Perkeo... might be "interesting" to work with something that has an ISO equivalent of something like 2 or 3...

Much the same approach as a few of the large format and pinhole people use BTW... using this
 
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Oooooooh! That could be fun!!! Mind you, an f/256 or so pinhole and ISO 3 "film" could mean a lot of standing about waiting for exposures to happen.

I have a vague recollection from about 35 years ago when we made a photo over a few lessons starting from absolute scratch; pinhole camera, light sensitive paper and soups. The end result made the Lacock Abbey window shop look pretty good but the process was one of the things that got me into photography.
 
I'll certainly go along with the idea that "there's something to be said for purely mechanical cameras". My favourite is still the F2, the last of the fully mechanical F series, although I'll admit that there's a bit of sentiment in it for me. I imagine the Leica rangefinders from the era before electronics were introduced are marvellous too, but I've never owned one.

The mechanical bodies will only wear out from use, like any other piece of precision machinery, not from lack of use and the electronic components degrading with time. I'd expect the best of them to last for donkey's years yet, if they're looked after, and repairs should be possible be cannibalising damaged cameras, or making parts if you have the resources to do it. That shouldn't present insurmountable problems. Of course, the demise of 35mm film would turn them into functional cameras with no photographic purpose, and I think that will happen sooner or later.
 
ianp5a said:
But old film cameras generally can have great picture quality even though they are old. Old digital cameras, such as 640x480 resolution or even 2Mp cameras don't yield great quality by today's standards. And worse into the future. They are just something to look at. But should not be used used with the expectation of quality.

And presumably, one day, film with become a thing of the past. So it won't matter if its mechanical and still goes click. Or if its digital and doesn't go click. They are both junk-stroke-museum pieces. Just like a dusty 286 PC from 1988 or a 2 year old smartphone.
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TheBigYin said:
At which point i'll get the chemistry kit out, and coat up some paper that I can drop into the back of the Perkeo... might be "interesting" to work with something that has an ISO equivalent of something like 2 or 3...

Much the same approach as a few of the large format and pinhole people use BTW... using this
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Upon the long fortolled death of film I'll start learning wet plate... And while I'll still have a relatively current dslr you can bury me in my rb67.
 
I was born in 1803 and became a lens grinder by trade. I'm spinning in my grave.
 
Well it will be a sad day if film is no longer available. And when this generation has all died out, demand will drop to some degree. So there may come a time when all uses of film are replaced by newer processes. Can anyone suggest a case where film is irreplaceable? I'm curious.
 
ianp5a said:
Well it will be a sad day if film is no longer available. And when this generation has all died out, demand will drop to some degree. So there may come a time when all uses of film are replaced by newer processes. Can anyone suggest a case where film is irreplaceable? I'm curious.
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I don't think it's the film generation driving sales now tbh, certainly not just refuseniks, there seems to be a good number of folk from the post film era picking up older cameras using them along side their digital equipment.
 
Yes. That is the case now. But I'm talking about the future. They won't make film forever.
 
ianp5a said:
Yes. That is the case now. But I'm talking about the future. They won't make film forever.
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Film will be made for as long as it's profitable such is the market.

I don't know of any procedures which can't be duplicated digitally as long as you can work with in the limited resolutions available.
 
ianp5a said:
Yes. That is the case now. But I'm talking about the future. They won't make film forever.
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For black and white, the future looks good. Ilford recently reported an increase in sales and if they can survive with the current level, they can certainly handle a bit more.

Ilford recently carried out a survey and posted this on APUG last week:

On average you are not as old as you think you are !

More and more young people are getting involved in analog photography and look to sites like APUG.org and ILFORD Photo.com to learn what it is all about, how to get involved and importantly actually how to do it.....

In very straight language : Analog Monochrome Photography and Printing and Processing is in the rudest of health as we leave 2014 with new people joining our creative world and more photographers and printers expanding the type of photography and printing they do.

We would like to thank everyone who contributed and especially everyone who helps and assists these new converts to analog photography and the crafts involved. A big thank you for the Apuggers who have made a great success of Localdarkrooms.com and everyone who buys, uses and value's ILFORD Photo products, we could not do what we do without you.
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Steve.
 
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I agree with all the above. Film was the only medium until quite recently. Some people have stuck to it for various reasons, others came into photography during the digital era and were tempted to try it because of curiosity, or the availability of superb cameras and lenses at bargain prices, and found that they enjoyed it. Whatever. For the moment, the two systems are running in parallel with digital dominant and film holding its own, and possibly gaining some ground.

I can't see this continuing. The advantages of digital - for most people - are compelling. Manufacturers will continue to develop, produce and support film for as long as it remains profitable, then it will come to an end. I doubt if this will happen soon, or suddenly, and it's more likely to be phased out gradually.

For all practical purposes, digital photography was unknown a generation ago. The early cameras were crude by today's standards, extremely expensive, and I doubt if any of us who grew up in the film era could have predicted how quickly this technology would evolve and dominate. Where to? Will FF - which describes a format originally derided as "miniature" and unsuitable for serious photography - continue to fall in price until it becomes standard, or will developments overtake it? I don't know what the future holds, and I suspect no-one else knows either, but digital photography will probably become obsolete in its turn.
 
Silicone isn't cheap and FF sensors take up a lot of room and if you get a faulty one it reduces the yield more than a faulty APS-C or MFT faulty chip would so FF will always have a price penalty over smaller formats even if some new technology improves the yield as you'll always get more smaller chips on a wafer than larger ones.

I'd like to see better EVF's, higher dynamic range, higher shutter speeds, we seem to be getting more cameras with a max shutter speed of 1/8000 and that's a good thing :D I'd also like to see a return to lens markings and end stops and more cameras and or lenses with aperture and shutter dials like the Fuji's and LX100 etc.
 
Steve Smith said:
For black and white, the future looks good. Ilford recently reported an increase in sales and if they can survive with the current level, they can certainly handle a bit more.
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I see. I didn't realise that the film hobbyists were the ones keeping it going. So theoretically they could make film for them forever.
 
ianp5a said:
I see. I didn't realise that the film hobbyists were the ones keeping it going. So theoretically they could make film for them forever.
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I think that's their plan! Who did you think was keeping it going? If you take the movie industry's film use out of the equation, the vast majority of film purchasing was always hobbysists and amateurs. The professional part of the market is a small percentage - just as it is today in the digital camera market.


Steve.
 
People who have old analog cameras that are still work well?

Hmm... Should I give film a try again then? It just seems so long winded. I gave all my developing gear away years ago. And have no scanner.
 
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