Wild Adorable… Really?

so is this a true reflection, (excuse the pun) of the water that Daniels saw?

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/tenderness…-really.664007/

I have no Idea what the colour of the water was that day. however I have seen such blueness in waters in various parts of the world.
I have no doubt @Kodiak Qc could confirm what it was like that day. but I have no reason to believe that he should need to do so.

It is also true that he likes to shoot many birds in the darkness of his marshes. And this might be something some of us could not do, nor even wish to do. But never the less it is what helps to feed him, and support his life style. And it is clearly appreciated by those who wish to pay to learn from his experience and work.
 
These are two nice detailed shots Daniel but they do look very blue, is there a reason for that? As you say, they are black birds

Reducing the blue channel looks better to my eyes on my monitor :)

This is what started all this off.......its laughable!!
 
Yes Terry, I'm confused why you think we are not?



You could not be further from the truth, the only reason I post any image in the forum is for crit, what makes you think different?



What makes you think anything I've wrote is aimed at you? I haven't quoted any of your posts.



Agree



Agree

At this point I can't understand the reason for your post after quoting mine but as you say, we are all entitled to quote and post what we like, if I wasn't confused before........I am now!!!


When we put up criticism. That critique is also open to close inspection and rebuttal. I was not questioning you work, I was rebutting you criticism of @Kodiak Qc offerings.
Just as you are commenting on my post I was commenting on yours.
 


Constructive you say?

I sent to my agent a full version that look exactly like Phil's proposal.
He forwarded it to all the clients and four have answered already…

Münich
Wir würden nicht Ihre Prämienpreise für diese Art von Scheiße zahlen

We would not pay your premium fee for this type of shyt
Lyon
J'espère que vous n'êtes pas sérieux Monsieur Daniel!

I hope you are not serious Mr. Daniel!
Bern
Hier in der Schweiz sehen unsere Blässhuhn wie die erste Version aus. Wir wissen nicht, von welchem Planeten diese neue Version kommt

Here in Switzerland, our Coots are looking like the first version. We don't know from wich planet this new version comes from
Valencia
¿Que es eso? ¡Nunca podría publicar tales cosas!

What is that? I could never publish that picture!

Yes, the shy was so intense that morning. I never use
vibrance, saturation or alike.

So it bothered you that much Daniel ;)
 
You will note


What I note is your deep understanding of chrominance,
luminance, iridescence and other light as well as materials
properties; and how they interplay or are affected by given
light situations and different environments.
 
I have no Idea what the colour of the water was that day. however I have seen such blueness in waters in various parts of the world.
I have no doubt @Kodiak Qc could confirm what it was like that day. but I have no reason to believe that he should need to do so.

It is also true that he likes to shoot many birds in the darkness of his marshes. And this might be something some of us could not do, nor even wish to do. But never the less it is what helps to feed him, and support his life style. And it is clearly appreciated by those who wish to pay to learn from his experience and work.

There are two basic points here

One, Daniel constantly gives detailed advice to others on how to process shots ..... and in many cases he edits their images ............none of the images that he edits look like any of his "Marsh" shots and he does not seem to apply the advice he gives to others when he processes his own images, particularly in black and white points and tonal range, his edits do, however look different to the original shot .... I have said on more than one occasion that he has his "own" style

and two,
The reality of the shots that Daniel produces down at "The Marsh" ...... the light cannot be the same every time he takes an image there ...... most are dark

here's another example

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/rarely-seen….664063/#post-7965136

to my mind he processes his images that way - and I do not comment on them because of this, water off a Coots back if you like.......... I know what to expect ... more of the same

the main point I brought up in this thread is that time and time again Daniel offer advice to others that he expects them to accept ........... Phil gives him honest critique, which I happen to agree with, and he rejects it .... referring me to a Critique thread ............ perfect irony

He certainly received very quick replies from his "international" contacts, regarding Phil's edit .......maybe I just need a pair of blue tinted dark glasses:)
 
Last edited:
gives detailed advice to others on how to process shots
Sure, if I can help… why don't you?
and in many cases he edits their images
whenever permitted and I feel I can contribute
none of the images that he edits look like any of his "Marsh" shots
Of course not… they were not shot at MY marsh
particularly in black and white points and tonal range
This proves me that you don't know what you're talking about
and I prefer to stop right here any type of interaction with you
on this forum… you may do as you will, so will I.

…/
 
Last edited:
There are two basic points here

One, Daniel constantly gives detailed advice to others on how to process shots ..... and in many cases he edits their images ............none of the images that he edits look like any of his "Marsh" shots and he does not seem to apply the advice he gives to others when he processes his own images, particularly in black and white points and tonal range, his edits do, however look different to the original shot .... I have said on more than one occasion that he has his "own" style

and two,
The reality of the shots that Daniel produces down at "The Marsh" ...... the light cannot be the same every time he takes an image there ...... most are dark

here's another example

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/rarely-seen….664063/#post-7965136

to my mind he processes his images that way - and I do not comment on them because of this.......... I know what to expect ... more of the same

the main point I brought up in this thread is that time and time again Daniel offer advice to others that he expects them to accept ........... Phil gives him honest critique, which I happen to agree with, and he rejects it .... referring me to a Critique thread ............ perfect irony

He certainly received very quick replies from his "international" contacts, regarding Phil's edit

maybe I just need a pair of blue tinted dark glasses:)


@Kodiak Qc Gives criticism that some find useful and some may find controversial.
Just as some might find your own criticism somewhat blinkered.
We can accept or ignore all criticism just as we choose. and take and learn from it as much as we care to.
In a like manner @Kodiak Qc can accept or reject criticism of his own work just as he chooses.

I have called your Criticism Blinkered because you seem to be making no effort to come to terms with what is either being shown to you,
nor what you might learn from it.
The criticism you offer is negative rather than positive and rarely supported by reasoned argument.
I accept that you do not care for saturated low key environmental images of Birds.
Beyond that your criticism is not exactly helpful.
It adds nothing in the way of criticism that might be useful to @Kodiak.Qc or add to his repertoire of techniques or to his business.
It is as useful as the criticism that suggest a photographer move a tree to improve a composition.

When @Kodiak Qc edits an image and gives advice, we can agree or not as we choose. but it is fair to say he always gives reasons for his opinions.
His edits of other people work do not look like his marsh shots, because they are not his marsh shots. Any more that his commercial work looks like his marsh shots.
And why should they?


I was once told by the site surveyor, that all the progress shots I was taking of a large building project looked like they were taken on a warm sunny day, Where as in reality they were working in wet deep mud most of the time. The reason of course was the shots were required to give maximum detail and content, not an impression of the weather conditions. His criticism was true but not helpful.

( I always gave a set of the progress shots to the site managers to keep them sweet. not because they needed them....) I got a cup of tea when they had a break, and never had problems on site. and always got advanced notice of anything special going on.


I presume @Kodiak Qc marsh shots look the way they do, because he choses the environment and light to create a coherent and saleable set of images.
In the same way that other people seem to create sets of Seaside bright images of all their subjects.... neither is right or wrong, unless it it is just accidental.
 
@Kodiak Qc Gives criticism that some find useful and some may find controversial.
Just as some might find your own criticism somewhat blinkered.
We can accept or ignore all criticism just as we choose. and take and learn from it as much as we care to.
In a like manner @Kodiak Qc can accept or reject criticism of his own work just as he chooses.

I have called your Criticism Blinkered because you seem to be making no effort to come to terms with what is either being shown to you,
nor what you might learn from it.
The criticism you offer is negative rather than positive and rarely supported by reasoned argument.
I accept that you do not care for saturated low key environmental images of Birds.
Beyond that your criticism is not exactly helpful.
It adds nothing in the way of criticism that might be useful to @Kodiak.Qc or add to his repertoire of techniques or to his business.
It is as useful as the criticism that suggest a photographer move a tree to improve a composition.

When @Kodiak Qc edits an image and gives advice, we can agree or not as we choose. but it is fair to say he always gives reasons for his opinions.
His edits of other people work do not look like his marsh shots, because they are not his marsh shots. Any more that his commercial work looks like his marsh shots.
And why should they?


I was once told by the site surveyor, that all the progress shots I was taking of a large building project looked like they were taken on a warm sunny day, Where as in reality they were working in wet deep mud most of the time. The reason of course was the shots were required to give maximum detail and content, not an impression of the weather conditions. His criticism was true but not helpful.

( I always gave a set of the progress shots to the site managers to keep them sweet. not because they needed them....) I got a cup of tea when they had a break, and never had problems on site. and always got advanced notice of anything special going on.


I presume @Kodiak Qc marsh shots look the way they do, because he choses the environment and light to create a coherent and saleable set of images.
In the same way that other people seem to create sets of Seaside bright images of all their subjects.... neither is right or wrong, unless it it is just accidental.

Well said.
 
@Kodiak Qc Gives criticism that some find useful and some may find controversial.
Just as some might find your own criticism somewhat blinkered.
We can accept or ignore all criticism just as we choose. and take and learn from it as much as we care to.
In a like manner @Kodiak Qc can accept or reject criticism of his own work just as he chooses.

I have called your Criticism Blinkered because you seem to be making no effort to come to terms with what is either being shown to you,
nor what you might learn from it.
The criticism you offer is negative rather than positive and rarely supported by reasoned argument.
I accept that you do not care for saturated low key environmental images of Birds.
Beyond that your criticism is not exactly helpful.
It adds nothing in the way of criticism that might be useful to @Kodiak.Qc or add to his repertoire of techniques or to his business.
It is as useful as the criticism that suggest a photographer move a tree to improve a composition.

When @Kodiak Qc edits an image and gives advice, we can agree or not as we choose. but it is fair to say he always gives reasons for his opinions.
His edits of other people work do not look like his marsh shots, because they are not his marsh shots. Any more that his commercial work looks like his marsh shots.
And why should they?


I was once told by the site surveyor, that all the progress shots I was taking of a large building project looked like they were taken on a warm sunny day, Where as in reality they were working in wet deep mud most of the time. The reason of course was the shots were required to give maximum detail and content, not an impression of the weather conditions. His criticism was true but not helpful.

( I always gave a set of the progress shots to the site managers to keep them sweet. not because they needed them....) I got a cup of tea when they had a break, and never had problems on site. and always got advanced notice of anything special going on.


I presume @Kodiak Qc marsh shots look the way they do, because he choses the environment and light to create a coherent and saleable set of images.
In the same way that other people seem to create sets of Seaside bright images of all their subjects.... neither is right or wrong, unless it it is just accidental.

God you do like to pontificate

how many postings have you made in the Bird Forum ........ how many images have you posted in the bird Forum? ............. are you an experienced "bird watcher"

Look at the images that Daniel posts ...... look at the advice he gives ......... look at the comments people make regarding his images.........that's what I judge him on

He gives Critique but does not accept it .......... and all this "messages from customers" what is all that about ....... their comments did come in surprisingly quickly
 
Last edited:
God you do like to pontificate

how many postings have you made in the Bird Forum ........ how many images have you posted in the bird Forum?
God you do like to pontificate

how many postings have you made in the Bird Forum ........ how many images have you posted in the bird Forum?


I do not normally participate in the Bird forum ... this is not what I am discussing.... But perhaps you did not notice.
I was discussing criticism
 
I do not normally participate in the Bird forum ... this is not what I am discussing.... But perhaps you did not notice.
I was discussing criticism

I was discussing Daniels comments on Critique that was made to him ........ are you a regular on the bird forum .......... you seems to be aware of all the Critique that I have given over the years ....... you should read what has been said rather than what you think you would like to have been said

You really have no credibility in my eyes

I was discussing Critique ..
 
Last edited:
give me your honest Critique, if you can, on the three images in question, rather than blowing smoke up Daniels posteriors

the image in this thread

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/rarely-seen….664063/#post-7965136

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/tenderness…-really.664007/

Why would I give you critique on someone else's photos?
If I want to offer critique I do so to the individual concerned and I don't go around turning my view into a crusade.
 
Why would I give you critique on someone else's photos?
If I want to offer critique I do so to the individual concerned and I don't go around turning my view into a crusade.

There is no way I am doing that ... offering honest Critique to Daniel is what he needs not just the usual "good shot" or talking around the image trying to find something nice to say

He is the loser in all this

I have been a supporter of Daniel over the past years ... but I never lie to him .... I always give him and all others my honest opinion
 
Last edited:
You absolutely are!

It is not my intention to do that all I ask is that you give honest Critique on the three images that I have highlighted........... Daniel should benefit from that, but I doubt he will accept it as apparently that is what his clients want
 
There is no way I am doing that ... offering honest Critique to Daniel is what he needs not just the usual "good shot" or talking around the image trying to find something nice to say

He is the loser in all this

I have been a supporter of Daniel over the past years ... but I never lie to him .... I always give him and all others my honest opinion

You are trying teaching your grandma to suck eggs...
Get a life....

Club style critique is not what he needs he is way beyond that.

I have checked out your work again, In case I had missed something... You offerings are certainly competent but boring and predictable and more like a catalogue of species.
I admit there is a place for such work, but I fail to see what it adds?
 
Last edited:
You are trying teaching your grandma to suck eggs...
Get a life....

Club style critique is not what he needs he is way beyond that.

I have checked out your work again, In case I had missed something... You offerings are certainly competent but boring and predictable and more like a catalogue of species.
I admit there is a place for such work, but I fail to see what it adds?

Can you explain this more fully .......... who are you? do I know you? can you point me to some of your images? .......... "offerings" .. what do you have to offer? ............

What kind of Life do you want me to get

I "knew" Daniel right from the word go on here ...... he has accepted my advice on a number of points, he has indexed PMed me a number of times for such ........... what makes you think that such is not now valid

The comments I gave to Daniel in this thread had little to do with the image he posted, but more to do with his attitude to Phils comments

Daniel has indeed changed ......... his many, many postings on this forum have now become an exercise in self promotion and all comment made on his images, unless ones of praise, are dismissed out of hand

You and others should continue blowing smoke up his fundamental orifice as it seems to please you .........
 
Last edited:
Can you explain this more fully .......... who are you? do I know you? can you point me to some of your images? .......... "offerings" .. what do you have to offer? ............

What kind of Life do you want me to get

I "knew" Daniel right from the word go on here ...... he has accepted my advice on a number of points, he has indexed PMed me a number of times for such ........... what makes you think that such is not now valid

The comments I gave to Daniel in this thread had little to do with the image he posted, but more to do with his attitude to Phils comments

Daniel has indeed changed ......... his many, many postings on this forum have now become an exercise in self promotion and all comment made on his images, unless ones of praise, are dismissed out of hand

You and others should continue blowing smoke up his fundamental orifice as it seems to please you .........

Read my posts in this thread it covers my views rather more fully.
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/being-busy-snoozing.664232/#post-7969171
 
Read my posts in this thread it covers my views rather more fully.
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/being-busy-snoozing.664232/#post-7969171

Your views re images are reasonably obviously, there are many different styles and avenues to explore when taking nature images ......... but you seem to promote yourself as an expert in these matters, do you have any evidence to support this ........... you have looked at my images and said they are not bad but boring and add nothing to the party ........ can you point me to your work in this area ....... maybe I could learn something?

....... Daniel choses to take and process the images the way he does ...... I have come to accept this and have stated that Daniel has his own style, especially down at "the Marsh" ........ we all have our own "preferences" whilst being aware of other possibilities ........ I am a bird watcher ...............I am more interested in birds than photography ........ I find very detailed ID images interesting ....... I have made no secret of this

What you have not covered are your views on Daniel's attitude to comments made to him in this section of the forum
 
who are you? do I know you? can you point me to some of your images?

The member's profile is a good source of information when completed…

Retired college Print and photographic manager. ( last 10 years)
Previously Industrial , commercial . architectural interior, Aerial,
glamour. and cine photography. wedding Photography. Also Li-
thographic Printing, management and production. Graphics and
pre-press.
I have been working with the many craftsmen in the trade for many years
and these info from Terry's profile tell me
  • The comments from this members are based on professional expe-
    rience and skills
  • Whatever the conditions of the retirement, I would never ask for proofs
    in form of pictures, images, as the member may not be active any more
    but the experience, the temperance and foresight are most precious
  • In the threads, the understanding of issues is clearly supported by infor-
    med technical and creativity opinions for me to consider with attention
The whole discussion about the iridescence is not supported by knowledge of
light and its physics, materials and their relative properties, and conséquently,
for me, there is no reason to give any value to that critique that feels more like
a point to win.
 
more to do with his attitude to Phils comments


I have not yet recognized in Phil's critique — nor in his profile —
any grounded knowledge or experience that would, in my eyes,
justify my consideration other than personal taste.

Anyone is welcome to express an opinion but his constant effort
to prove me wrong is most irritating as it has no serious motivation
other than taste.
 
Last edited:
Your views re images are reasonably obviously, there are many different styles and avenues to explore when taking nature images ......... but you seem to promote yourself as an expert in these matters, do you have any evidence to support this ........... you have looked at my images and said they are not bad but boring and add nothing to the party ........ can you point me to your work in this area ....... maybe I could learn something?

....... Daniel choses to take and process the images the way he does ...... I have come to accept this and have stated that Daniel has his own style, especially down at "the Marsh" ........ we all have our own "preferences" whilst being aware of other possibilities ........ I am a bird watcher ...............I am more interested in birds than photography ........ I find very detailed ID images interesting ....... I have made no secret of this

What you have not covered are your views on Daniel's attitude to comments made to him in this section of the forum

I have not commented about other people, or their attitude to comments.... why would I ?

As to examples of my photography, I rarely if ever take photographs of birds but I did once show a juvenile jay who climbed up my back door steps. and another of a bird table full of bustling pigeons. neither of which had any photographic merit, but were of momentary interest to me.
As a now long time retired Professional Photographer, who spent his life covering many industrial and commercial fields of interest, and who ended my working life as a college print and photographic manager, I have now returned to the life of an family snapper. I occasionally post images in these forums more to illustrate a point than to demonstrate any remaining skills. Though the advent of mirrorless cameras has extend my options somewhat.

But I still enjoy political style encounters.......:cool:
 
Personal opinions aside, and I do firmly believe that through discussion we all learn and improve, the key thing here, and certainly for Daniel is that the image he provided was

'Exactly what the client wanted'

For me, that is the end of the exercise. If the client wanted it pink like a flamingo for example, the client gets it pink like a flamingo.

We can all learn from each other, and ultimately if 50 people look at that image, there will be 50 differing opinions, all of which are correct to those 50 individuals.
 
I have not yet recognized in Phil's critique — nor in his profile —
any grounded knowledge or experience that would, in my eyes,
justify my consideration other than personal taste.

Anyone is welcome to express an opinion but his constant effort
to prove me wrong is most irritating as it has no serious motivation
other than taste.

This is thread that prompted you to send me a rather rude Pm https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/black-trouble.664236/

I'm not sure how much knowledge or experience one needs to offer technical critique but you'd have to be blind to see that focus isn't on the eye/head or anywhere close.

Now if this was intentional, which no doubt you'll say it is, why didn't you give a small write up saying that's what your client's requirements were.

And whilst I'm here, let me remind you of this

In a PM, some moments ago, I was remembered:
— "and you have nothing to prove."

yet in nearly every post you start, you feel you do!
 


Constructive you say?

I sent to my agent a full version that look exactly like Phil's proposal.
He forwarded it to all the clients and four have answered already…

Münich
Wir würden nicht Ihre Prämienpreise für diese Art von Scheiße zahlen

We would not pay your premium fee for this type of shyt
Lyon
J'espère que vous n'êtes pas sérieux Monsieur Daniel!

I hope you are not serious Mr. Daniel!
Bern
Hier in der Schweiz sehen unsere Blässhuhn wie die erste Version aus. Wir wissen nicht, von welchem Planeten diese neue Version kommt

Here in Switzerland, our Coots are looking like the first version. We don't know from wich planet this new version comes from
Valencia
¿Que es eso? ¡Nunca podría publicar tales cosas!

What is that? I could never publish that picture!

Yes, the sky was so intense that morning. I never use
vibrance, saturation or alike.

What's this all about ........ while we all admire your multi-lingual skills

Phil posts an edit of your image at 5pm on a Monday - strangely you then send it to your "international" clients for review and within less than 24hours they have reviewed the image and replied to you as above ........... boy they were quick ..... less than 24hours ...... they must have very little to do?? .........

the more I read the relies the more comical they are "Here in Switzerland, our Coots are looking like the first version. We don't know from wich planet this new version comes from"
 
Last edited:
Wir würden nicht Ihre Prämienpreise für diese Art von Scheiße zahlen We would not pay your premium fee for this type of shyt

Translates as

We would not pay your premium rates for this type of s***. We would not pay your premium fee for this type of s***

Very professional clients you have!!
 
Wir würden nicht Ihre Prämienpreise für diese Art von Scheiße zahlen We would not pay your premium fee for this type of shyt

Translates as

We would not pay your premium rates for this type of s***. We would not pay your premium fee for this type of s***

Very professional clients you have!!

We are led to believe that they would for "Blue Coots"
 
Last edited:
God you do like to pontificate
Pot kettle black

At least his 'pontifications' as you put it are coherent.

@Kodiak Qc Daniel, this is the birding forum there's a reason it has such a bad rep on TP and why many of the posters are often banned/suspended.
 
God you do like to pontificate

y



Who are you addressing God or me?
To pontificate means to speak with the authority of a Bishop, Some times perhaps the Bishop of Rome.

I have never considered photography to be a religious calling...
But perhaps I am missing some thing in this discussion.
It would certainly explain the messianic fervour of some of the posts
Defending the established dogma.
As to how these holy images should be rendered and defended.

As a humble but somewhat heretical Anglican I was unaware of my sins.

And If indeed you are calling on God. Please put a word in for me when you see him next.
 
this is the birding forum there's a reason it has such a bad rep on TP


Ah yes, I'm learning a lot through these exchanges! :cool:
 
Back
Top