Beginner Advice for these photos please :)

Dannyj1984

Dannyj1984

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115
Name
Danny
Edit My Images
Yes
Photo1.jpg Photo2.jpg

Couple of photos from a shoot I did yesterday for a couple. Just fiddling about with the photos in photoshop. Also can anyone point me in the directionn of a decent guide on how to edit photos for posting on here? I adjust them in photoshop on the image size tab and these have been made 7 x 5 at 300DPI then saved as high quality jpegs with a file size of under 350kb to allow me to post on here. The quality looks quite a lot worse than the photos do on my computer though when viewing the full sized photo. I have seen other posts where the quality still looks good.
Anyway about the photos, I put a slight vignette on the first, used to white balance tool to sort out the background as changing the presets in camera raw to flash made them look a little orange. I had the main flash with a softball just behind me and another shoot through umbrella flash at 90 degrees to the girls on their right hand side.

I am still very much a beginner with all this portraits and lighting so any advice appreciated. Feel free to adjust the images :)

Thanks
Danny
 
I wouldnt worry aboutt he quality for posting on here.. quality seems good enough

however :(

These are dull as dishwater and seriously need a good popping.. brightness/exposure/colour
 
•
Since he came back from school, my son is having a good time on TP looking
for pictures he could play with…
As he is doing rather fine, I let him have a go again:

Photo1pp.jpg
 
pop21.jpg



This was cropped too tight above the head IMHO

I used photoshop shadow/highlight tool to bring out the hair....upped the colour and exposure..i am not a portrait guy so others will do better i am sure :)
 
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Hi Danny good try but there's a few things stick out to me.

On the technical side the lighting looks underexposed and quite flat. In the second image in particular the side light is a lot brighter than the key but isn't high enough or moved forward or back enough to add much. When you're lighting portraits work one light at a time and give each light a meaning on these a single light in front and to one side of subject will probably give a better light once that's where you need it exposure-wise only add additional lights if they're needed and add them more deliberately as in if you want to fill shadows, separate subject from background, light background or similar. You've done ok setting up the background but it's kinda dull and just looks like unlit white seemless, by which I mean it's not white enough or grey enough to really look like a deliberate choice. The top one which has gone a bit darker is the better one imo as it's starting to get to grey but the image is quite underexposed so if you took up the exposure to where it should be would probably be back to in between the two options.

On the actual photo side in both images the poses look quite mature and forced for these girls the smiles especially look very strained, essentially they look very much "posed". If your directing kids get them into the way you want then just talk to them if they don't hold the pose it's fine they're kids and most parents want to see the real them come out which will only happen when they're relaxed and goofing a bit.

I've been doing quite a few family portraits recently and getting kids to cooperate and look natural is hard, there's some others on here who are amazing at it and will likely give you some great tips. If I was you as a next step I'd simplify it a bit, work with one light at first, for kids it doesn't need to be overly dramatic so up high and off centre to create some shape and try to get a good exposure. Once you've got an exposure focus on working with the person you're photographing the most important part is getting them to connect with you so they look natural. Once you've got that part down start worrying about adding extra lights then.

As for posting images uploading to flickr and embedding is a good way of doing it and also means people can view higher res image and settings if needing when giving advice.
 
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Thanks for your replies, I need to find some tutorials for sorting out the colours, whenever I try they always seem to look unnatural :/ or like these very washed out. I think I tend to underexposed most of my shots! Think I'm afraid of them being too bright

As for the lighting, I have been doing shoots in people homes and so space is a serious issue, this one only had space for one light in front so I had to put the other to the side, didn't help that my modelling bulb blew so I couldn't really see how the light was dropping on them, (lesson learnt there) looking back I think I may have been better having the umbrella on the key light and soft box on the side light? I had my fill light set at half the power of the key light.

Luckily I'm not charging for the photos and the people I am doing them for know it is purely a hobby and they won't get perfect professional quality pictures ;)

Danny
 
The issue with colours could be many things a likely culprit may be your monitor post the unprocessed image with settings and people can have a look to see how they look.

As for the light the issue with the second light isn't just the power but the purpose. In regards to power being half and full it doesn't tell much unless the distances and modifiers are also the same. Here even at half the power you can see in the photos it is noticeably brighter than the main light. Your also calling it a fill light, a fill light is designed to fill the shadows created by the key light, to do this it needs to come from roughly the opposite direction of the key as thats where the shadow will be or on axis to fill the whole scene, By using a side light as fill even if the ratios were correct you'd have one side filled and one side in shadow, I'm not saying there's never a time that will work but this isn't really where I'd expect it to.

Less is often more as I say start with one light then see what you have, if you add more lights they should serve a purpose, in these shots aiming the second light on the background might have been a better choice, or if you kept the background darker a kicker light to seperate the subject from the darker background. At the moment though it seems more like you have two lights and are trying use all your gear. when you're lighting even if your having multiple lights you should set them up one at a time and only add extras if they're adding something to the image.
 
D72_2221.jpg
That is the original photo from camera, just resized in PS to meet the guidelines for posting on here.
Nikon D7200
Sigma 50mm 1.4 lens
Shutter 1/200s
F 5.6
ISO 100.

Ill have to sort out my Flickr account so I can post them onto there and then link them which seems the common way of doing things on here :)


I did start off with one light in front but had some horrid shadows in the background so put the other light at the side to help with the shadows.Both lights were about the same distance from the kids albeit in different directions but I think even though the side light was at half the power of the key light the shoot through brolly must let more light through than the softbox did. Some of the photos have a noticeable darker area on the right hand side.
 
Danny,

I am no expert as still learning but I do like the pose and composition on both, with regards to the other bits the experts have already suggested the improvements.

Thanks

Kev
 
Right, there's plenty of feedback and information there.
Get that young aspiring model back and put it to good use!
She looks so relaxed with the camera.
 
Thanks, Unfortunately these aren't people I know, I just put an advert on a for sale or swap page on Facebook and got over 100 messages from willing volunteers :)

Danny
 
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Quick and dirty edit on a tiny file... Two minutes in Photoshop to sort that background out would make it 10 times better.

2iqiyxh.jpg
 
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I really think you'd be better of self-critiquing before posting Danny. I don't say that to be a prat just that there's things wrong with these images that I'm sure you were well aware of before posting, so you might as well put your best effort out there for critique.

Aside from the background and posing I'm sure you realised they were both underexposed? When you imported into photoshop why not lift the exposure? If they're a little flat why not move the contrast and vibrancy sliders around a bit? Basically just respond to what you see, then walk away from them for a few hours/days then revisit them. I 100% guarantee you'll look at them differently with fresh eyes.

Once you've made basic tweaks and you've got a reasonably well balanced, well exposed and colour corrected image, then you can think about the creative stuff.... Just one bit of advice though. Be wary or using a vignette. Especially on a high key portrait where the whole point of the image is to have a white background!

The good news is that by the time you get half way through those 100 volunteers you'll be a pro :D
 
UaeExile said:
Quick and dirty edit on a tiny file... Two minutes in Photoshop to sort that background out would make it 10 times better
Click to expand...

Thanks :) I'm pretty awful with using all the sliders on Photoshop :( definitely need to have a play around with it. I tried using the adjustment brush I camera raw to tidy up the background, is there a better way do you think? Well I'm sure there probably is :)
Danny
 
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Hi Danny. Same here i'm no expert but a quick way to get you in the ball park would be____ if you copy and paste that sooc image in post 8 into photoshop duplicate that layer (crtl+j) and set the layer mode to to screen this would get you into a good position very quickly. Course I could be talking nonesence but give it a try only takes a mino and you might be surprised :)


Gaz
 
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Dannyj1984 said:
Thanks :) I'm pretty awful with using all the sliders on Photoshop :( definitely need to have a play around with it. I tried using the adjustment brush I camera raw to tidy up the background, is there a better way do you think? Well I'm sure there probably is :)
Danny
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Yeah it takes time getting used to them but like I say just react to what you see :)
 
edit1.jpg

Had a quick play with this this morning. Adjusted the vibrancy and exposure first in camera raw, then duplicated and applied the screen blend mode in PS and then brushed over the girls.

Does it look acceptable? Thanks

Danny
 
Dannyj1984 said:
View attachment 49872

Had a quick play with this this morning. Adjusted the vibrancy and exposure first in camera raw, then duplicated and applied the screen blend mode in PS and then brushed over the girls.

Does it look acceptable? Thanks

Danny
Click to expand...

Sorry, it's way too magenta.

I have a scientific background and like to use all the tools I can to get colours and exposure right before stuffing them up myself in photoshop.

That means a white balance (grey) card, a calibrated monitor and a light/flash meter. I've recently started using a calibrated colour target too.
 
Dannyj1984 said:
Thanks :) I'm pretty awful with using all the sliders on Photoshop :( definitely need to have a play around with it. I tried using the adjustment brush I camera raw to tidy up the background, is there a better way do you think? Well I'm sure there probably is :)
Danny
Click to expand...

I suggest starting your processing in Lightroom or ACR for minor exposure / contrast / wbtweaks and only go into photoshop when you've got something in particular you're trying to do - and then look for a tutorial for exactly that effect. It's such a large piece of software that just playing isn't always very productive.

Here's a previous post on cleaning up backdrops:

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/another-try.602251/#post-7043295
 
yep sooc is way to magenta if your camera is set to flash white balance either your softbox/light is creating a weird cast or else there's something in the room bouncing colour in, as juggler says a grey card at the start of each setup will fix this.

The other issue is people are explaining how to fix this in photoshop and it can be done here's my before and after of the original image from your sooc jpg.

D72_2221-ba.jpg


here's the psd if you want to see what was done http://1drv.ms/1MCBSrX the biggest changes were in camera raw editing white balance, adding a gradient to fix the imbalance the side light had created and adjusting exposure. but the whole image needed quite a lot of work.

This approach is fine if there's a photo you love and want to save but for doing a family portrait shoot I wouldn't want to got through this process on 50-100 images. In this instance you need to work out where the issues are and get it as close as possible in camera. The exposure isn't actually that far out but the lighting isn't great the posing is stiff and if you can you'd be better pulling out a lot more background so if possible you can get them further from the back but also so you've enough in front that your not needing to fill every edge of the image. So yeah you can kinda get there in photoshop but getting there in camera is going to do you more favours.
 
Thanks Craig that looks great, I have had a look at the psd file, I can see what you have done on some of the bits but on others if I remove the layer I can see the change but I am not sure how you have done it. Such as on the background layers I can see they go from the greyish colour to a nice white but I can't figure out how you did it :(

Here is another effort I made...
1 by danny jebb, on Flickr

Still a little bit of shadow on the background but I don't mind that too much.

Danny
 
The background layer is a bit heavy handed and I missed leaving a couple of stamp layers that might have helped show how it was built. When cleaning a background it can be good to use a curve to darken the image you'll see a wrinkles easier that way. There's a few things that make these more noticeable in an image and having a short run of seemless is a big offender as the back doesn't go out of focus.

On this image on the plain background layer, which is not necesarily a technique I'd overly condone as the best way, I made stamp of the layer then made a selection of the girl and used content aware fill to remove her from the image. Once she was removed I used a gausian blur to remove the wrinkles. Using gausian blur tends create banding in gradients so I added noise to the layer to reduce the appearance of banding, in this case I put it on a seperate layer so you could see it was done but you could just add the noise on the layer you blurred although having it separate does give a bit more control. Once I'd created the blurred layer I just masked it off then revealed it where needed over the existing background. After I was happy with it I used a curves layer to brighten it and masked the girl out from being affected by the curve.
 
Wow I really need to learn how to use all these layers and masks etc :) I have shown this one to the girls grandma and she is very happy with it. I have bought some new modelling bulbs and have 2 more shoots on Sunday, Will definitely take on board the comments about sorting out my lighting more before starting the shoot. I also have a grey backdrop both are 6m long so should be plenty of room to bring the subjects further from the backdrop....the only issue in people houses, For the full length photos I have taken so far I have had to switch to my 18-55 lens, One on Sunday is apparently in a very large front room so fingers crossed I will have plenty of space :)
With very little experience and parents who already know what poses they like their kids to be doing its hard to get people into correct poses, but I think that will come with experience. I think the main thing at the moment is a lot of people I am doing photos for are people who wouldn't necessarily go and spend £100+ on a professional photoshoot.
Danny
 
Learning photoshop can be useful but the above explanation for non photoshop savvy people probably reiterates that for this type of shoot learning to get it right in camera is more important. The next shoot you do get someone in position tell them you need to spend a bit of time setting lights right for their home and will delete these photos then shoot and adjust until your lights are exactly how you want them. Spending an extra 10 or 15 minutes there will save countless hours editing so try not to settle for close enough. If you do want to learn about photoshop however I'd recommend starting with the phlearn tutorials on youtube.

Once you've got the lights set spend a bit longer on each shot. When they're in the pose you or the parents want, just talk to them, ask what tv shows they like, ask them to tell you a joke, ask them what boy they like at school and keep shooting while you do it to get them relaxed and if you're lucky smiling and laughing genuinely. Watch some peter hurley stuff on youtube, this isn't remotely what he shoots but he shows how important interacting with the subjects are.
 
Thanks guys, I will definitely be making sure my background is right on Sunday :)
My dad gave me an old Minolta autometer 3 light meter but unfortunately the dome is missing ;( looked online but can't find a replacement :( pretty sure that model isn't made anymore. I have also just bought a new camer 2 new lenses and all the lighting and background stuff so the other half is reluctant to let me spend anymore :) will look into getting one eventually though :)

Danny
 
I admire your willingness to jump in at the deep end, but...
Danny, I'll be blunt!

We did try to tell you that this was a lot harder than you might think. Despite the PP done here to help you out, you'll have to agree this is still turd polishing at best.

Start with the simple stuff, learn how to light well with a single light and a coloured background, when you've sorted that, you can complicate things.
 
Phil V said:
I admire your willingness to jump in at the deep end, but...
Danny, I'll be blunt!.
Click to expand...

I'll blame you for pointing me in the direction of all the stuff I'd need ;)

I personally don't think they are too hideous and the people who I took them for seem happy enough, of course they could just be being nice :)
No one ever learnt by not trying did they :) I'm doing an 11 week old on Sunday and they a family of 4 so I will use my grey background for the family shot :) I'll definitely spend a bit more time with the set up of the lights though :)

Danny
 
Dannyj1984 said:
I'll blame you for pointing me in the direction of all the stuff I'd need ;)

I personally don't think they are too hideous and the people who I took them for seem happy enough, of course they could just be being nice :)
No one ever learnt by not trying did they :) I'm doing an 11 week old on Sunday and they a family of 4 so I will use my grey background for the family shot :) I'll definitely spend a bit more time with the set up of the lights though :)

Danny
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Of course they're happy with them.... youre doing them for free!

Don't fall into the "well they liked them" trap. You should be your own harshest critic and, to be honest, your original edits were pretty grim.

You're absolutely right though, you've got to try and start somewhere but I do agree with Phil. Spend time learning how to use one Light properly before adding more into the mix. If you haven't got the gear to light a white background properly park that idea for now and play around with other colours or environmental portraits.
 
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