An Independent Scotland?

Salmon and the Yes campaign - with the odd exception, (general rowdiness and reported vandalism which they could not control) - I thought that they did a far better job than the No side.
Much as I do not warm to Alex S a few months ago I disliked him far more than today and you have to respect his political campaign which other politicians could learn a lot from.

IMHO, he has nothing to feel ashamed about and I feel that the Scottish people will be disappointed about his decision and I would have thought that it would have been better for them had he stayed.

As I said earlier, the "buggers muddle" is about to start
 
Last edited:
As I have mentioned in an earlier post I do not find Alex Salmond an attractive personality. However, he (and the rest of the SNP) put a very important question to the Scottish people and indirectly gave the rest of the UK some interesting things to think about.

I think that the No campaign did not so much win the argument as the Yes campaign lost it. He has decided that as the leader he should take responsibility and for that I applaud him. The SNP now have a big problem - who are they going to get to replace him and have any hope of future success?

Dave
 
Ladbrokes have Ms Sturgeon at 1/4, with Humza Yousaf next in line at 8/1. Alex Neil, Derek Mackay and Mike Russell follow at 10/1, with John Swinney priced at 16/1.

William Hill is also offering odds - they price Ms Sturgeon at 1/3 and Mr Yousaf at 6/1.

Salmon and Sturgeon have worked as an effective team, IMHO
 
Last edited:
My money would be on Nicola Sturgeon, though she may not even stand. John Swinney has been party leader before if I remember right and I doubt he'll go for it again. Humza Yousaf is a bit young yet I think.
 
frank said:
God! your like a dog with a bone about Salmond, is this a personal hatred of him as a person or what he stood for?
Click to expand...
To me I just find him an ugly smug f***.

I was pro independent Scotland. I really respect people wanting change. However under his leadership they just went the wrong way about it. It was so obvious. A very simple thing could have swung it in my opinion. Just being honest about the things you don't know and clearly highlighting the risks and issues that need to be sorted opposed to assuming that it will get done. I think if they've done that it could have been the other way around. And if they had clear sensible policy opposed to this non working socialist nirvana they could have gained the support equal to a landslide.

Nope they blew it, they blew it through ambiguity, through thuggish intimidation and through lack of ability to get the message across.

Still an ugly smug f*** though in my opinion. ;)
 
Steep said:
My money would be on Nicola Sturgeon, though she may not even stand. John Swinney has been party leader before if I remember right and I doubt he'll go for it again. Humza Yousaf is a bit young yet I think.
Click to expand...

Hi Hugh - good to hear from you

I think Yousaf is a very bright and able guy but his outbursts on TV have at times been quite aggressive.
 
Last edited:
dejongj said:
To me I just find him an ugly smug f***.

I was pro independent Scotland. I really respect people wanting change. However under his leadership they just went the wrong way about it. It was so obvious. A very simple thing could have swung it in my opinion. Just being honest about the things you don't know and clearly highlighting the risks and issues that need to be sorted opposed to assuming that it will get done. I think if they've done that it could have been the other way around. And if they had clear sensible policy opposed to this non working socialist nirvana they could have gained the support equal to a landslide.

Nope they blew it, they blew it through ambiguity, through thuggish intimidation and through lack of ability to get the message across.

Still an ugly smug f*** though in my opinion. ;)
Click to expand...

good to have your point of view, but in retrospect and looking at the results it looks as if the majority "No" was alway there in a substantial force and that it was as many said "a silent" no which in the end chose, even just to keep the status quo rather than the unknown of change, which is a natural thing to do.
 
Using the same argument you could say that around 54% of scots didn't vote for the union either.
Click to expand...

You could say that, but it was a vote on should Scotland become independent. 2/3's did not vote for the proposition put forward. It's as simple as that. Putting the spin on it, and missing out the qualification words, "Of those who voted", doesn't make it an accurate reflection.
 
dejongj said:
To me I just find him an ugly smug f***.

I was pro independent Scotland. I really respect people wanting change. However under his leadership they just went the wrong way about it. It was so obvious. A very simple thing could have swung it in my opinion. Just being honest about the things you don't know and clearly highlighting the risks and issues that need to be sorted opposed to assuming that it will get done. I think if they've done that it could have been the other way around. And if they had clear sensible policy opposed to this non working socialist nirvana they could have gained the support equal to a landslide.

Nope they blew it, they blew it through ambiguity, through thuggish intimidation and through lack of ability to get the message across.

Still an ugly smug f*** though in my opinion. ;)
Click to expand...

The guy lost, and he's done the decent thing. Is it really necessary to continue with the childish, derogatory personal remarks?
 
I was pro independent Scotland. I really respect people wanting change. However under his leadership they just went the wrong way about it. It was so obvious. A very simple thing could have swung it in my opinion. Just being honest about the things you don't know and clearly highlighting the risks and issues that need to be sorted opposed to assuming that it will get done
Click to expand...

Which is I think the real reason they lost. Evey Scot I know voted no, and did so because Alex was so evasive about anything he was asked.
Looking at it from his side though, he'd put together such a mismatch of supporting groups, most of who wanted things directly opposed to each other. He therefore probably couldn't give an accurate answer, simply because it would have been something he would be held to and thus started an internal bun fight.

Looking at Sky News (Yes, I know!), it looks like the Yes & No sides are winding each other up in Glasgow. This was something that was predictable, and the SNP should be stamping on now. Not because it's serious disorder, but because it would will continue the pain.

It seems to have been left to The Queen to make a statement that might pour oil on troubled water. I really hope people listen to her.
 
Bernie174 said:
Which is I think the real reason they lost. Evey Scot I know voted no, and did so because Alex was so evasive about anything he was asked.
Looking at it from his side though, he'd put together such a mismatch of supporting groups, most of who wanted things directly opposed to each other. He therefore probably couldn't give an accurate answer, simply because it would have been something he would be held to and thus started an internal bun fight.

Looking at Sky News (Yes, I know!), it looks like the Yes & No sides are winding each other up in Glasgow. This was something that was predictable, and the SNP should be stamping on now. Not because it's serious disorder, but because it would will continue the pain.

It seems to have been left to The Queen to make a statement that might pour oil on troubled water. I really hope people listen to her.
Click to expand...

The yes campaign have been in George Square all day, behaving peacefully. A load of unionist supporters turned up and started winding up the yes supporters. Perhaps the no team should also be stamping on it.
 
I can only go on the News, which says they have both been there all day. The Yes side seem to object to the Union Flag being displayed.
I'd agree that given that Glasgow was very pro Yes, it's not a wise move to gather in that way, but they have as much right as the Yes side. However, the SNP Govern Scotland for all except for Union wide powers held by Westminster. It is the Scots Government that should be speaking out pouring oil.
I wouldn't expect the Scots Government to be doing that if it happened in Whitehall!
 
Bernie174 said:
I can only go on the News, which says they have both been there all day. The Yes side seem to object to the Union Flag being displayed.
I'd agree that given that Glasgow was very pro Yes, it's not a wise move to gather in that way, but they have as much right as the Yes side. However, the SNP Govern Scotland for all except for Union wide powers held by Westminster. It is the Scots Government that should be speaking out pouring oil.
I wouldn't expect the Scots Government to be doing that if it happened in Whitehall!
Click to expand...
I've been watching on the webcam, and there have been two separate groups at each end of the square, each just doing their own thing, not causing any trouble, until what looked like a bus load of union supporters turned up, then it appeared to get a bit messy. Not disagreeing with what you are saying, but if there's trouble then both sides should be condemning it. The no campaign have extremely vocal, and rightly so, when they've been on the receiving end.
 
But I hear nothing from the Scots Government Bob. Thats the point, it's for them now to re united Scotland.
The No 'organisation' seems as it should have done to have disappeared, not to do would lead to confusion as to who's in charge now. It is still the SNP and they should be sorting things out.
It's lame to try and shift that responsibility, and perhaps shows that it's as well the Yes side lost, they seem unable to control the country.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
The guy lost, and he's done the decent thing. Is it really necessary to continue with the childish, derogatory personal remarks?
Click to expand...
I take offence of that. I spoke from the heart and expressed my true feelings. Nothing childish about that, and there was no derogatory intent. Further more the points that I raised weren't new or an after thought, they were consistent with the build up. Rather than dismissing them, perhaps it is wise to look at them and learn from it on how you could get a majority to stand behind the cause.
 
Salmond has done the right thing IMO.

Hopefully, a new leadership will be able to sit down with the government and discuss how to best move forward for the benefit of all.
 
jakeblu said:
Using the same argument you could say that around 54% of scots didn't vote for the union either. Which ever way you look at it the vote was divisive and shows the general feeling of dissatisfaction of the current situation.
Click to expand...

Just like almost every election in the UK. So no no change there then. And by the same token even more than 55% didn't vote for independence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
dejongj said:
I take offence of that. I spoke from the heart and expressed my true feelings. Nothing childish about that, and there was no derogatory intent. Further more the points that I raised weren't new or an after thought, they were consistent with the build up. Rather than dismissing them, perhaps it is wise to look at them and learn from it on how you could get a majority to stand behind the cause.
Click to expand...
I didn't question the majority of your comments, only the slagging of Alex Salmond. That's the bit I said was childish, even if you spoke from the heart.
 
Bernie174 said:
But I hear nothing from the Scots Government Bob. Thats the point, it's for them now to re united Scotland.
The No 'organisation' seems as it should have done to have disappeared, not to do would lead to confusion as to who's in charge now. It is still the SNP and they should be sorting things out.
It's lame to try and shift that responsibility, and perhaps shows that it's as well the Yes side lost, they seem unable to control the country.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, as I said. I'm not trying to shift responsibility, merely suggesting that both groups should stand together in their condemnation. I don't think that's unreasonable.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Time to move on now ! Maybe even lock this thread ?
Click to expand...
We the staff have discussed this,
and we appreciate the need for a de-brief.
For now at least, as long as it continues in the same reasonable vein,
it stays open. (y)
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I agree with you, as I said. I'm not trying to shift responsibility, merely suggesting that both groups should stand together in their condemnation. I don't think that's unreasonable.
Click to expand...
:agree:
Both sides do now need to work together I wasnt an Alex Salmond fan but give the guy credit he did weave together a miss matched bunch to get awfully close to the independent Scotland he believed would be better. I don't believe it would have been I think it may well have been a disaster but we will never know now. I must admit to having a sneaky respect for the man what ever his politics . He made the other 3 sit up and take notice.
Just maybe his legacy could be a better UK for us all with the changes that could come from this.
:eek::D Just think he might be the man who goes down in history
As the man who forced the UK to change for the better :naughty: The Saviour so to speak
 
Re Alex Salmond

While I am highly relived I am still British and those North of the border are still in the Union I was sympathetic that he resigned having said that it does look on the news that he may lead the negotions on behalf of the SNP if that's his intention good on him

While I would personally find Westminster not honouring the promise made for new powers I belive a pound has a hundred pennies you can change the split but unless you want debt the amount spent does not want to exceed a pound

Guess I am saying if as a nation everyone wants to help the less lucky taxes would have to increase

Glad seeing you back Hugh I feel sure you are gutted
 
well im just back in from the city center and its nuts ,george square is blocked to traffic ,
 
Bernie174 said:
Which is I think the real reason they lost. Evey Scot I know voted no, and did so because Alex was so evasive about anything he was asked.
Looking at it from his side though, he'd put together such a mismatch of supporting groups, most of who wanted things directly opposed to each other. He therefore probably couldn't give an accurate answer, simply because it would have been something he would be held to and thus started an internal bun fight.

Looking at Sky News (Yes, I know!), it looks like the Yes & No sides are winding each other up in Glasgow. This was something that was predictable, and the SNP should be stamping on now. Not because it's serious disorder, but because it would will continue the pain.

It seems to have been left to The Queen to make a statement that might pour oil on troubled water. I really hope people listen to her.
Click to expand...

I think Salmond actually did very well to be on the brink of a 50/50 split - he was very passionate about independence and I think this rubbed off on others (Kevin Keegan factor). However, as push came to shove I reckon people had a 'Kinnock moment' - can this bloke really run a country, and in the end people thought not.
 
Newsnight is interesting.

The beginnings of a move towards a federal UK perhaps?

But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, nothing concrete will happen unless the people of the UK show the desire and passion for it.
 
simon ess said:
Newsnight is interesting.

The beginnings of a move towards a federal UK perhaps?

But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, nothing concrete will happen unless the people of the UK show the desire and passion for it.
Click to expand...
One thing for sure is people in England are as sick of Westminster as Scotland Labour is really worried if we have an English parliment they will lose out it must be 85% of the UK population who are just ignored

First great step for me is move parliment out of London further north and remind some in the south that the North does not end at Manchester or Leeds
 
Some in the South think the North starts at Watford Gap.

During my truck driving years, a long time ago, the South felt like a foreign country - Scotland didn't.
 
border_all said:
One thing for sure is people in England are as sick of Westminster as Scotland Labour is really worried if we have an English parliment they will lose out it must be 85% of the UK population who are just ignored

First great step for me is move parliment out of London further north and remind some in the south that the North does not end at Manchester or Leeds
Click to expand...
Don't get this, why would moving parliament north do anything. London is the capital, biggest city, where the most money is generated, what will benefit if moved?

If labour are worried then come up with policies people want. Snp did so in Scotland and do well, ukip and to a lesser extent the greens have to a much smaller degree. English parliament makes a lot of sense.
 
Hi folks

I'm still feeling the pain after staying up all night last night.

Hit my bed around 08:00 and was up at 09:00

Today has been tough - our guests arrived at 11:00 and I think I passed as human.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top