Apple describe Flash as "closed and proprietary"

Apple like to have things 'open' when it suits them! I love their stuff but they are as bad as Microsoft were before they were hounded by the EU etc.
 
I'm a recent apple convert (iphone) after shunning them for years. Can someone explain in 10 words or less :), what is their beef with flash exactly?
 
Dangleman said:
I'm a recent apple convert (iphone) after shunning them for years. Can someone explain in 10 words or less :), what is their beef with flash exactly?
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They didn't invent it and don't own it. simples
 
Well, to be fair to them Adobe Flash it is both of those things, and Apple should know all about closed and proprietary. Isn't this a bit like Ford saying "Vauxhall make cars but we won't service them".
 
matt2martin said:
Well, to be fair to them Adobe Flash it is both of those things, and Apple should know all about closed and proprietary. Isn't this a bit like Ford saying "Vauxhall make cars but we won't service them".
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But they will:)
 
It's no surprise for me, Apples answer to anything they don't like is to pretend it doesn't exist. The iPad won't be able to print, have external storage attached via USB, or have it's memory expanded. Despite this, I expect it to become a sales success with the usual Apple die hards giving plenty of support.
 
I love apple but I think it is very hypocritical what they are saying here. Having said that flash is a pain in the arse, I should know I develop in it. It causes no end of issues on web browsers. HTML5 is a much better solution the problem is flash has been around for so many years that a huge chunk of the world are already using it so a transition is not smooth.

If I could choose between sites having html5 over flash i definitely would
 
I hate flash so don't really care TBH. I got 'clicktoflash' for Safari which is great, disables flash until you click on it which saves loading up a load of annoying crap that just distracts you.

It's so poorly optimised too, a Pentium 2 PC should be able to run YouTube - heck it can play a DVD fine - but no, because Flash needs so much processing power to run it simply crawls. :LOL:
 
joescrivens said:
I love apple but I think it is very hypocritical what they are saying here. Having said that flash is a pain in the arse, I should know I develop in it. It causes no end of issues on web browsers. HTML5 is a much better solution the problem is flash has been around for so many years that a huge chunk of the world are already using it so a transition is not smooth.

If I could choose between sites having html5 over flash i definitely would
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Flash can be annoying and having used silverlight a few times it seems much better than Flash in the performance stakes. The thing is is it Flash that is the problem or bad coding from a few developers? Probably a bit of both.

Unless Adobe sort it out I can't wait for HTML5 and silverlight to take over the mantle.

Having said all that Apple are tits in this respect. They are just as bad if not worse in a lot of things so they shouldn't really be talking....:LOL:

There was an interesting website linked from possibly here that pointed out that in fact a lot of flash applications wouldn't actually work on touch screen device due to the need to hover, which isn't avalable on most touch screen devices yet... However I think in part the lack of Flash on the iPhone and iPad is due to profit margins...
 
Apple describe Flash as "closed and proprietary"
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Erm it is closed an proprietary. Whether it's used widely doesn't change this. Flash is pretty buggy too, having seen a sample of the code ( because I know someone that worked for Adobe ) I know why. :LOL:

Adobe are just in a fit because they know flash is dieing, and Apple aren't helping the cause.
 
icecavern said:
Erm it is closed an proprietary
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The point is the hypocrisy. As mentioned above, Apple love to be selective about how and when they decide to favour open standards.

I'm not a web dev but I get the feeling that flash being superceded is inevitable and isn't going to worry Adobe too much. They have plenty of other revenue streams I'm sure.
 
Closed and proprietary?

Like ipod you mean?

Sorry Apple, you know a significant portion of the web uses flash so make your kit work rather than expecting the world to fit round you.
 
icecavern said:
Erm it is closed an proprietary. Whether it's used widely doesn't change this. Flash is pretty buggy too, having seen a sample of the code ( because I know someone that worked for Adobe ) I know why. :LOL:

Adobe are just in a fit because they know flash is dieing, and Apple aren't helping the cause.
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I'd hardly call this a death.

Personally I don't care about Flash not being supported on the iPhone. What is a bit strange though is that they are banning a whole host of development environments. For example and iPhone app built using ActionScript 3 will not make it onto the app store. So now not only are Apple dictating how you use their hardware and the internet but they are now telling you what you can and can't use to build apps for the app store.

Given Android penetration in the US is only very slightly behind Apples Mobile OS I don't think it'll be long before we see a big developer shift moving onto other platforms.
 
Flash, like javascript, is an abomination and a blight on the face of the world wide web. I don't like Apple's business practices in general but if they reduce the proliferation of Flash then I'm all for it.

A good way for a company to make me not buy their products is to have a Flash based website ;).
 
From what I understand HTML5 is just a essentially a massive increase in Javascripts... Out of the frying pan into the fire comes to mind... :p
 
chrisgeary said:
The point is the hypocrisy. As mentioned above, Apple love to be selective about how and when they decide to favour open standards.
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Apple have supported open standards for a long time, just look at WebKit -arguably the most standards compliant browser, an operating system based on UNIX using lots of open source software. You're confusing Apple using open standards with how open their mobile platform is, two entirely different concepts.

Apple knows using open standards will drive adoption to their platform, not relying on another possible competitors product (Adobe Flash) which has been proven to be unreliable on the desktop.

KayJay said:
What is a bit strange though is that they are banning a whole host of development environments.
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If you look at this from Apple's perspective, it makes perfect sense. If they allow Adobe to compile Flash apps for the iPhone OS, every time Apple update their OS they have to wait for Adobe to update their software before those developers writing in Flash can see any benefits.

Also have you tried the few Flash compiled apps in the App Store currently? They err, suck. Portability seems like a great idea initially, but the reality never seems to turn out that way. Java being the prime example.

Given Android penetration in the US is only very slightly behind Apples Mobile OS I don't think it'll be long before we see a big developer shift moving onto other platforms.
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http://comscore.com/Press_Events/Pr...mber_2009_U.S._Mobile_Subscriber_Market_Share

Google: 5%
Apple: 25%

Android is gaining traction, but whether it'll ever have the developer base as the iPhone is debatable. At least in the short to medium-term.
 
I find it amusing that Apple & Adobe are fighting with each other- when they are both massive companies. In this case, I think its only the consumer that's going to be worse off. No flash on the ipad/iphone- poor end users trying to visit websites that use it. Glad I use android which does support it- if I want to use it.
 
Apple: The pot calling the Kettle black since... since too f^&*ing long that's what...
 
weiran said:
If you look at this from Apple's perspective, it makes perfect sense. If they allow Adobe to compile Flash apps for the iPhone OS, every time Apple update their OS they have to wait for Adobe to update their software before those developers writing in Flash can see any benefits.

Also have you tried the few Flash compiled apps in the App Store currently? They err, suck. Portability seems like a great idea initially, but the reality never seems to turn out that way. Java being the prime example.
Android is gaining traction, but whether it'll ever have the developer base as the iPhone is debatable. At least in the short to medium-term.
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Thing is this is not just about flash, they've banned anything that isn't written directly with their SDK.
So for arguements sake I have a website written in C#. I decide a mobile app is a good idea, so I re-use some code and get it working on mono, taa daa, one iPhone app written using my existing code - I have one codebase to look after and maintain, one lot of testing etc.
I see Android come along and use exactly the same code and release an app for that too.

My iPhone app just got banned because its not written natively for the iPhone. Am I really going to go write another app in objective C native to the iPhone and have two sets of source to maintain and test ? Knowing my app can be pulled at any time with no reason ? (go lookup the guy who in the description of his app dared to mention android - his apps got pulled).

Nope.. too costly in time and effort. repeat the above for Java or in fact any other language you might think of using.

I think Jobs has made a mistake with this. Apple are getting way too big for their boots.
 
I really hope that it comes back and bites apple one. They have got away with doing everything their way for too long.
 
Craft said:
Thing is this is not just about flash, they've banned anything that isn't written directly with their SDK.
So for arguements sake I have a website written in C#. I decide a mobile app is a good idea, so I re-use some code and get it working on mono, taa daa, one iPhone app written using my existing code - I have one codebase to look after and maintain, one lot of testing etc.
I see Android come along and use exactly the same code and release an app for that too.

My iPhone app just got banned because its not written natively for the iPhone. Am I really going to go write another app in objective C native to the iPhone and have two sets of source to maintain and test ? Knowing my app can be pulled at any time with no reason ? (go lookup the guy who in the description of his app dared to mention android - his apps got pulled).

Nope.. too costly in time and effort. repeat the above for Java or in fact any other language you might think of using.

I think Jobs has made a mistake with this. Apple are getting way too big for their boots.
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I was using Flash as a specific example as that seems to be what Apple was targeting with this licensing change. Flash differs from other SDKs like MonoTouch as it is basically an abstraction layer for the Flash API. You don't get access to the CocoaTouch APIs, including any of the native UI, and you have to work entirely with the tools Adobe provide. If something's missing in Flash but available in CocoaTouch, you won't be able to use it in Flash.

MonoTouch is more like a bridge between CocoaTouch and .NET, it adds in a lot of .NET features such as garbage collection, but also maintains native bindings to the big majority of CocoaTouch APIs. They seem confident that Apple won't block MonoTouch, as quite a few apps have been approved since the licensing change.

As a .NET developer who's dabbled with MonoTouch I can see the power in reusing code (fewer bugs, less maintenance with a unified codebase, etc.), but I can see why Apple doesn't want someone selling a platform on top of their platform that could potentially become quite a big proportion of AppStore apps.
 
Flash and other animated nasties are are blight on the web.

They all suck as bad as each other.

Websites with Flash are why God invented the back button on the browser.
 
weiran said:
http://comscore.com/Press_Events/Pr...mber_2009_U.S._Mobile_Subscriber_Market_Share

Google: 5%
Apple: 25%

Android is gaining traction, but whether it'll ever have the developer base as the iPhone is debatable. At least in the short to medium-term.
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Actually that's out of date

http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/05/comscore-android-market-share-continues-to-gain-on-the-iphone/

However you are right, still not near Apple as of yet, however having more than doubled it's market share in three months, while Apple has stagnated at the moment (before the Desire and x10 came out, which are massively popular phones). I can see Android overtaking WinMo around August time and unless Apple pull out all the stops with the new iPhone then dropping a few percent to around 20% and Android overtaking them around the beginning to middle of 2011.

We then have WinPho coming out at that point too...
 
Chillimonster said:
Apple cannot make a profit from it, unlike the appstore.
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That's how I've read it too.

As for Apple criticising Adobe for being "closed and propriety"... how many ways are there to get apps for a standard iphone (ie not counting those requiring jailbreaking)? Can I run any app on it I like?

Is there more than a little "pot, kettle, black" going on here?
 
Not sure if I like the idea of that or not, it's like they are trying to get a second layer of internet, moving back to the mobile internet websites we had a few years ago...

Why can't we all just use normal web pages! It works fine on my phone and there is no reason it won't work on any other phone (except business meddling aside).
 
Dangleman said:
I'm a recent apple convert (iphone) after shunning them for years. Can someone explain in 10 words or less :), what is their beef with flash exactly?
Click to expand...
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Flash is hell! But the full answer from the man himself is here: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

I totally agree that flash should go the journey and html5 should get all the support possible to take over - but it would be nice to have the choice to enable/disable flash on ipad/iphone
 
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