April Jones

big soft moose said:
mind you while its easy to point the finger at the poor all illeducated , in being too 'king stupid to look after the kid , this kind of thing is found in all sectors of society - look at the mcanns for example
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Or the Camerons. Even with Police minders they managed to leave their daughter in the pub.
 
cambsno said:
We all make mistakes, and I dont think any parent can say they have never lost a child for even a couple of minutes.
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Which sort of proves my point.

Its easy to lose a child - even with the best support possible. I lost my son at euro disney for a couple of minutes.

However, theres a difference between accidentally losing a child and not providing the necessary supervision.

In the camerons case it was a mistake. IN this case it appears to be lack of supervision.

And I really hope they find her quickly.
 
barneyrubble said:
Which sort of proves my point.

Its easy to lose a child - even with the best support possible. I lost my son at euro disney for a couple of minutes.

However, theres a difference between accidentally losing a child and not providing the necessary supervision.

In the camerons case it was a mistake. IN this case it appears to be lack of supervision.

And I really hope they find her quickly.
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Twice with my son - aged just under 2 i think, in next, he ran round a corner and then i couldnt see him. Looked everywhere and after a few mins saw some jeans moving - he was taking a dump behind some clothes! Next time was 3, in tesco, decided to hide beind a pillar. Spent 5 minutes looking and really starting to panic!!! He started school in Sept and will be 5 in April and guess soon will be asking when he can walk round to his friends house!
 
Whenever you hear stories such as this about young children being taken the natural reaction is to fear the worst and pray for their safe return. It's heartbreaking for any parent to read and watch such pain, I'm sure parents everywhere can empathise with what the parents of this little girl are going through.

Sadly, as a society there are still plenty of people who do not learn from such incidents and allow their children to play out of sight in local neighbourhoods with the attitude that it won't happen to them.
 
yeah thats the point i was making. People are quick to forget what happens to other people like sarah payne, the kids ian huntly killed, Maddie and now this. Sure they gasp and probably are concerned for those families, but usually think that it will never happen to them and prefer to risk the chance by letting their kids out anyway. The one thing I also hate hearing is when they say "Well I'm not going to wrap them up in cotton wool." Of course not, but leaving kids that are in some cases barely out of nappies to run wild in the street unsupervised when its dark when most of these kids don't even understand the very basics of road safety and stranger awareness really annoys me
 
archamedes said:
leaving kids that are in some cases barely out of nappies to run wild in the street unsupervised when its dark when most of these kids don't even understand the very basics of road safety and stranger awareness really annoys me
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I would agree with this but the price we pay for being overly anxious is very high indeed. Child abduction and murder by a stranger is very rare indeed but we have a society now consumed by 'stranger-danger' where it is fraught with danger to even notice a child, let alone show it any recognition or kindness.
Normal affection between the very young and the non-family elders has been lost, woe betide you if you console a crying child or take the time to talk with them or interact with them in any way.
So sad :(

Hopefully April will be found alive, but it's looking bleak!
 
Most cases like this turn out to b a family member or someone known to family. The soham girls were 10 iirc so old enough to be out on own and Huntley was not a stranger too them.
 
child abductions are no more common now than they were when I was a kid in the 60's. We used to play out all day long in the summer and only went home when it got dark. We used to walk to school and the shops, go to fairs, everything. My own kids used to walk to school and play out too. We weren't quite as young as April but she lives in a rural setting where things are different.

It's the abductors who are fault - not the parents. I'll never forget walking through Newcastle with my 6 year old niece and my 2 kids. I was holding her hand on one side and my kids on the other side (hand in hand). As I walked along the path (Clayton St for those who know it) I was glancing in the shop window when I felt my niece tugging my hand as if she wanted me to let go. When I looked at her to see what she wanted, I saw that some bloke had taken hold of her other hand and was trying to pull her away from me - he'd lifted her from her feet. She hadn't said anything or objected at all. If I hadn't looked at her, or if there hadn't been a main road next to us, I might have just let go of her hand thinking she wanted to scratch her nose or something. It still makes me shudder and she's 29 now!

the worst of it was that the bloke was reluctant to let her go even after I spotted him. I yelled at him and he gave me such a look of hatred, but he didn't let go. I had to pull her hand from his. The shoppers around me carried on oblivious.

after that I made sure my niece got a lecture about strangers. But you can see how easy it is for these vile people - even worse if it's someone they know and trust :(
 
sturisoma said:
child abductions are no more common now than they were when I was a kid in the 60's. We used to play out all day long in the summer and only went home when it got dark. We used to walk to school and the shops, go to fairs, everything. My own kids used to walk to school and play out too. We weren't quite as young as April but she lives in a rural setting where things are different.

It's the abductors who are fault - not the parents. I'll never forget walking through Newcastle with my 6 year old niece and my 2 kids. I was holding her hand on one side and my kids on the other side (hand in hand). As I walked along the path (Clayton St for those who know it) I was glancing in the shop window when I felt my niece tugging my hand as if she wanted me to let go. When I looked at her to see what she wanted, I saw that some bloke had taken hold of her other hand and was trying to pull her away from me - he'd lifted her from her feet. She hadn't said anything or objected at all. If I hadn't looked at her, or if there hadn't been a main road next to us, I might have just let go of her hand thinking she wanted to scratch her nose or something. It still makes me shudder and she's 29 now!

the worst of it was that the bloke was reluctant to let her go even after I spotted him. I yelled at him and he gave me such a look of hatred, but he didn't let go. I had to pull her hand from his. The shoppers around me carried on oblivious.

after that I made sure my niece got a lecture about strangers. But you can see how easy it is for these vile people - even worse if it's someone they know and trust :(
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That is a crazy story and what a nerve that guy had to even attempt that, i sure hope he got some corrective guidance.

However your point that its 100% abductors fault and not the parents is a completely irrelevent arguement in terms of all these other kids out on the street and the april jones situation, because it all boils down to the fact she was unsupervised at night when she should have been in bed or at least been getting ready for bed.
 
sturisoma said:
. We weren't quite as young as April but she lives in a rural setting where things are different.
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this is part of the problem - things arent different in a rural setting , even the most idyllic village setting can have a weirdo living in it, or indeed have one come in from outside.

i grew up in a very rural setting too , and once i was old enough to know about dangers i played out without harm - but a 5yo isnt old enough to know about or understand dangers and so should never be out of adult supervision.

Nevermind stranger danger, there are multiple other threats out there - traffic, dogs, cuts and falls, livestock , holes in the ground, poisonous plants etc- that a 5 year old isnt equiped to know about, avoid or cope with.

I do agree that the crime is 100% the abductors fault, but in many cases the child being in harms way is down to the parents not looking after it properly
 
personally i dont think they should have released his details as there are alot of people who ignorantly will assume he his guilty as the police have spoken to him about this and they think it is then there right to causde hell for this bloke and his family ive seen it plenty of times....

but why would they release his details is there no witness that could say where he has been at the time

if it turns out that bad things happen to him and he had nothing to do with it i think that is very uinfair on him and it will ruin his life will he get damages

i guess this money would be stumped up by the tax payer
 
big soft moose said:
this is part of the problem - things arent different in a rural setting , even the most idyllic village setting can have a weirdo living in it, or indeed have one come in from outside.

i grew up in a very rural setting too , and once i was old enough to know about dangers i played out without harm - but a 5yo isnt old enough to know about or understand dangers and so should never be out of adult supervision.

Nevermind stranger danger, there are multiple other threats out there - traffic, dogs, cuts and falls, livestock , holes in the ground, poisonous plants etc- that a 5 year old isnt equiped to know about, avoid or cope with.

I do agree that the crime is 100% the abductors fault, but in many cases the child being in harms way is down to the parents not looking after it properly
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I mentioned this earlier. People who live in a rural area who claim its safe are ignorant and living in a false sense of security. There does't have to be the silent weirdo living in the village, there is nothing stopping a p*** from any other part of the UK driving into your rural safe little community and doing what he sets out to do. Anyone who is foolish enough to believe they are in a safe area and it will never happen to them are just asking for trouble. after all sarah payne lived in a safe rural area, so did aprial jones and the soham girls
 
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astraman1 said:
personally i dont think they should have released his details as there are alot of people who ignorantly will assume he his guilty as the police have spoken to him about this and they think it is then there right to causde hell for this bloke and his family ive seen it plenty of times....

but why would they release his details is there no witness that could say where he has been at the time

if it turns out that bad things happen to him and he had nothing to do with it i think that is very uinfair on him and it will ruin his life will he get damages

i guess this money would be stumped up by the tax payer
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Releasing his details will make life very difficult if he is charged and the case goes to trial but the first job of the police is to preserve life, and if the police felt that there was a chance that releasing his details increased the chances of April being found alive, I don't see what choice they had.
Nevermind stranger danger, there are multiple other threats out there - traffic, dogs, cuts and falls, livestock , holes in the ground, poisonous plants etc- that a 5 year old isnt equiped to know about, avoid or cope with.

I do agree that the crime is 100% the abductors fault, but in many cases the child being in harms way is down to the parents not looking after it properly
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Agreed, abduction is probably the worst perceived danger but in fact there are other dangers that are far more likely to occur.

History teaches us that the type of person who carries out child abductions is likely to grab his victims in any circumstances, whether the child is alone, miles from anywhere, or in its own bed. Robert Black took his last victim from her own front garden, in full view of the woman next door, who was supervising her. This was the remarkable case where his van was stopped by police and the child was rescued by her own father, who was one of the police officers who stopped the van.
 
I have great sympathy for the family, but at six I was walking approx a mile to school, as stated earlier I don't think things are any worse than 30-40 years ago. As for kids going missing,. Many years ago I was shopping with a girlfriend. I was about 18, on the tannoy came across about a missing child, who happened to be sitting on a table next to us. The cafe, I took her hand and stated walking to wards the security guard I could see calling out to him, and when a woman came up to me screaming abuse and hitting me as I was abducting her child, security came over and I explained what had happened, security were happy but the woman wanted me arrested, tbh even now over 20 years on I am still very carefully and very rarely approach a child who is upset and is alone, and I will watch until I see a police officer or official of some kind. I get ****ed off being accused of this and that because of being a male with short hair.
 
I think the police had no choice but to release his name after he was named by local people to the media who should have known better.


Heather
 
big soft moose said:
this is part of the problem - things arent different in a rural setting , even the most idyllic village setting can have a weirdo living in it, or indeed have one come in from outside.
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The difference is that in a rural area everyone knows everyone and they do tend to look out for each others kids more. Plus less danger from cars and busy roads so kids are more likely to be allowed to play out

agree about weirdos being everywhere, but I do feel that kids in the country are allowed more freedom because they do have a more close knit community.

so perhaps the difference is perceived rather than actual?

I dunno tbh, but I do know you can't keep your kids indoors - they need fresh air and exercise. And you can never protect them from people they actually know - teaching them about strangers is only half the job. Mine were simply taught not to go anywhere with anyone ever unless they asked me first.

And I told them why.
 
Stories like this are just one reason among many why we decided not to breed. Just the thought of having a child taken fills me with dread, and while a tiny amount of blame must lie with the parent(s) who allowed her to play well out of eyesight, 99.9% of it lies with the perpetrator, who IMO, (IF the police are certain they have the right man) should be strapped to a table and electrodes attached to his floppy danglies until he spills the beans about where she is, alive or dead. I sincerely hope she is found alive and as well as can be expected but I do fear that she may be gone.
 
sturisoma said:
The difference is that in a rural area everyone knows everyone and they do tend to look out for each others kids more. Plus less danger from cars and busy roads so kids are more likely to be allowed to play out

agree about weirdos being everywhere, but I do feel that kids in the country are allowed more freedom because they do have a more close knit community.

so perhaps the difference is perceived rather than actual?
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Imo thats a rural stereotype , and probably completely untrue - I live in a very rural area and only know a handful of my neighbours, also the roads are probably more dangerous due to blind turns and high hedges

sturisoma said:
I dunno tbh, but I do know you can't keep your kids indoors - they need fresh air and exercise. .
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indeed - but if they are outside, age 5 the parent or other responsible adult should be outside with them - sending them to play out at that age is dangerousand irresponsible
 
Nod said:
, who IMO, (IF the police are certain they have the right man) should be strapped to a table and electrodes attached to his floppy danglies until he spills the beans about where she is, alive or dead.
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This is why i couldnt be a cop - if i was certain he was guilty i'd have thrown PACE out of the window and be kneeling on him in a holding cell repeatedly tazering him in the nuts while screaming "where is she, you piece of crap"
 
big soft moose said:
This is why i couldnt be a cop - if i was certain he was guilty i'd have thrown PACE out of the window and be kneeling on him in a holding cell repeatedly tazering him in the nuts while screaming "where is she, you piece of crap"
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I'd be helping you mate!
 
Davec223 said:
I have great sympathy for the family, but at six I was walking approx a mile to school, as stated earlier I don't think things are any worse than 30-40 years ago. As for kids going missing,. Many years ago I was shopping with a girlfriend. I was about 18, on the tannoy came across about a missing child, who happened to be sitting on a table next to us. The cafe, I took her hand and stated walking to wards the security guard I could see calling out to him, and when a woman came up to me screaming abuse and hitting me as I was abducting her child, security came over and I explained what had happened, security were happy but the woman wanted me arrested, tbh even now over 20 years on I am still very carefully and very rarely approach a child who is upset and is alone, and I will watch until I see a police officer or official of some kind. I get ****ed off being accused of this and that because of being a male with short hair.
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This.

There's no way I'd approach an alone or upset and missing child without first getting another member of the public or some sort of official to back me up and if there was no one else around I'd be calling the police before trying to take the child back to their home or to a police station or security desk, leaving yourself wide open to all sorts of accusations otherwise and this day in age your guilty until proven innocent.

Think this case of April Jones once again proves that things in rural areas really aren't different and if anything are worse as people have this stupid idea that they have a some kind of safety blanket because of where they live.
 
He needs too die a long and slow death...****** !
 
They have just annoucned he has now been arrested on suspicion of murder.
Awful
 
slr10 said:
They have just annoucned he has now been arrested on suspicion of murder.
Awful
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Just read that too although I wonder (hope) if it's more a technicality to keep him under arrest?
 
It's an awful thing to have parents thinking though, they must have their valid reasons for doing so.
 
Russ77 said:
Just read that too although I wonder (hope) if it's more a technicality to keep him under arrest?
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That's what I thought but it makes no difference arresting him for another offence, time limit is still the same :(
 
neil_g said:
so unless he's confessed to killing her, how is it murder?
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Because it "suspicion" of murder, you don't need to have a dead body, just the suspicion he has commited the offence.
 
neil_g said:
so unless he's confessed to killing her, how is it murder?
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One can only assume that there has been a development in the case big enough to warrant such a move. They have also said only professionals should now be involved in the search due to passage of time and developments.
 
so unless he's confessed to killing her, how is it murder?
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It's not yet, it's suspicion of murder. Not the same as for Murder.

Because it "suspicion" of murder, you don't need to have a dead body, just the suspicion he has commited the offence.
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You don't always need a body for a charge of murder either, although it is helpful.


Just read that too although I wonder (hope) if it's more a technicality to keep him under arrest?
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Nope, makes no difference to time he can be held. It has been done because PACE says that you must tell a person why they are being arrested, and if evidence of further offences comes to light you must arrest for that in addition. On the face of it, it seems pointless, but it's so that he knows what Police are investigating. Although to be fair, I'd guess he's known full well from the start.
 
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slr10 said:
One can only assume that there has been a development in the case big enough to warrant such a move. They have also said only professionals should now be involved in the search due to passage of time and developments.
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thats what i mean, he must've said something surely or theyve found some sort of evidence?

if theyve got reason to suspect he killed the girl, and to ask the public to call off the search (presumably to not contaminate a scene).
 
My feeling all along has been that he has actually confessed to taking April, but probably said that he had left her somewhere alive, hence the all out searches that have taken place.

The police seemed to be 100% confident that they had the right person from the start.

I can't begin to imagine what the parents are going through and I'm trying my best not to imagine what that little girl endured.

Al
 
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