Hi guys I don't know much about photography or cameras but I enjoy taking photos and I'm looking for a camera that's easy to use to start off with. I usually use my phone as it's got quite a good camera but I'm looking to get rid of it and get something simple as Im spending most of my day staring at a screen. Any suggestions or advice you have would be really appreciated
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Beginner cameras
- Thread starter rpwd201
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I'd suggest you go to a decent camera shop and look at the various makes like Canon, Nikon, Olympus and so on and see what feels right in your hand. I've a few friends who went with the Canon entry level cameras (750d a few years old now) and even being beginners had no problems using the cameras. Even though they are called entry level they are still very good cameras.
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The advice to go to a camera shop is spot on.
I like the function on Fuji's lower-end cameras where you can press a button and it goes back to auto everything - it makes it easier to experiment in the creative modes, without the risk of missing a shot because you are in the wrong mode.
I like the function on Fuji's lower-end cameras where you can press a button and it goes back to auto everything - it makes it easier to experiment in the creative modes, without the risk of missing a shot because you are in the wrong mode.
ancient_mariner
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The other point to make is that entry level cameras are often harder to use intentionally because the controls are more limited. A more advanced camera usually has all the same auto modes but better controls.
Find a camera which is able to
BTW, smartphones often CAN do all Step 1 thru Step 4, but the user interface (menu system) gets in the way, compared to dedicated dials for controlling Aperture and Shutter speed...but they CAN be utilized (somewhat less conveniently) for the eduction process.
- work in full automation mode (usually referred to as 'green box' mode or Program mode...it allows you to shoot successfully in spite of NO KNOWLEDGE AT ALL
- The camera in #1 should ALSO have the ability to be put into Aperture-priority mode (often called 'Av' for aperture value) in which you select the aperture of the light permitted to go thru the lens...this allows you to shoot with YOUR selection of aperture, so you can learn what a larger aperture (like f/2.8) vs. a smaller aperture (like f/22) will do to the focus characteristics of the shot (that is, 'Depth of Field' or how much/little is 'in focus' behind and in front of the subject plane)
- The camera in #1 should ALSO have the ability to be put inth Shutter-priority mode (often called 'Tv' for time value)) in which you select the shutter speed which controls how still or how motion-blurred the subject in the photo will be, so you can learn about how shutter speed affects the motion-freezng appearance of a shot.
- Optionally, the camera in #1 has a Manual mode, in which the photographer preselects the Aperture and the Shutter Speed, when the photographer wishes to experiment and learn thru their experimentation, and have ultimate control over the photos they take
BTW, smartphones often CAN do all Step 1 thru Step 4, but the user interface (menu system) gets in the way, compared to dedicated dials for controlling Aperture and Shutter speed...but they CAN be utilized (somewhat less conveniently) for the eduction process.
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Many entry level cameras have 'scene' modes on them, whatever camera you end up with, try to avoid using these specialist modes as they will take the photograph but they won't, IMVHO, teach you anything. Nothing wrong with using 'program' mode though as it will allow you take a decent photograph but you can see what the camera is doing to help you get it; you can learn from that.
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Can you read? If so, and you're genuinely interested in the hobby of photography, forget worrying about how beginner friendly a camera is and choose the camera that you want, even if it's not a beginner camera you will grow into it. The reason I asked if you can read is because there are manuals for every camera and, as far as I am aware, there are 'complete guides' for most cameras, too, which are often easier and more insightful to read.
I'm currently reading the completed guide by Thom Hogan for my Nikon D700. The Nikon D700 is a great camera, by the way, and has a bit of a cult following for the images it produces. Full frame, professional grade camera that can be had ridiculously cheap now.
I'm currently reading the completed guide by Thom Hogan for my Nikon D700. The Nikon D700 is a great camera, by the way, and has a bit of a cult following for the images it produces. Full frame, professional grade camera that can be had ridiculously cheap now.
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[B][SIZE=6]rpwd201[/SIZE][/B]
Joined -Today at 8:49 AM
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Hopefully the OP will return.
Joined -Today at 8:49 AM
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Hopefully the OP will return.
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Last seen 2 minutes ago looking at this thread, perhaps they're just waiting for more replies
Plain Nev
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Mirrorless is certainly the more popular of the two. Having said that don't discount the humble DSLR. There are advantages to both, and both will do the job. If you do get into a camera shop just pick them up and see which feels more comfortable in the hand. Because it's very important to find something you are comfortable with.
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Ooh, that's a can of worms.
DSLRs have a large number of lenses to chose from and there is increasing scope for purchases in the second-hand market because they are starting to become cheaper as people with the money, and the GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome), switch to mirrorless. Mirrorless cameras are more expensive and the range of lenses and accessories is smaller; a situation that is not going to continue as more and more people make the switch and manufacturers concentrate their efforts on the latest technology.
IMHO mirrorless is a bad idea for someone new to cameras as there are so many features that can only confuse. All the manufacturers are in a race to come out with one technical advance after another; the mirrorless camera you buy today will be hopelessly out of date by this time next year (although it will still take pictures of course) and it's trade-in value will drop off a cliff the minute you open the box.
My suggestion would be to buy a reasonably-priced, second-hand DSLR, get used to it, learn how it works, find out what you really need and then after a few months say, go out and buy your more semi-permanent model.
On top of the DSLR/mirrorless choice, you have to decide on a manufacturer but that is another discussion.
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Mirrorless vs. dSLR is simply 'an alternative way to take photographs'...and many/most photographers do not NEED many of the benefits of mirrorless techology. For example, for my own shooting
- I do not need anything faster than 5fps frame rate...I do not take sports photos
- I do not need eye AF...I do not ordinarily shoot fast moving animals, where rapid AF is needed
- I do not need electronic shutter
Yes, 'mirrorless is the future', but the future today costs significantly more than the 'past', in part because the new mirrorless lenses are often priced higher than new dSLR equivalent lens, and because the used gear market is not such a bounty of used mirrorless stuff yet.
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Really there are so many choices that it's a bit like pinning the tail on the donkey if you remember that kids' party game. But it's an experiment - you might fall out of love with photography - so keep the spend low, and if you buy used you'll lose less if you move on.
I'd suggest that it's a good plan to investigate different formats of device actually in the hand and to the eye. Ergonomics vary, and to me the viewfinder experience is somewhat crucial. I know that this is hard to assess from a standing start.
Eventually, if you take a plunge, it's certain that an input of energy will be needed to get up and keep running. All those menus and buttons and what does what. It comes easier to some than it does to others. But it might need a degree of determination.
However - if you find something that feels good in the hand and is good to look through, that could be a fair enough starting point. But in the digital era, though many functions can be set to auto, you're still engaging with complexity. There will surely be pitfalls, but also commitment can be fun!
I'd suggest that it's a good plan to investigate different formats of device actually in the hand and to the eye. Ergonomics vary, and to me the viewfinder experience is somewhat crucial. I know that this is hard to assess from a standing start.
Eventually, if you take a plunge, it's certain that an input of energy will be needed to get up and keep running. All those menus and buttons and what does what. It comes easier to some than it does to others. But it might need a degree of determination.
However - if you find something that feels good in the hand and is good to look through, that could be a fair enough starting point. But in the digital era, though many functions can be set to auto, you're still engaging with complexity. There will surely be pitfalls, but also commitment can be fun!
ancient_mariner
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Don't think in terms of 'this vs that' - they are all just cameras, and no one type is more complex than the other.
However a key difference is that DSLR is a dead technology, in that none of the makers are developing either bodies or lenses for this category. That doesn't mean that they will take bad picture - quite the opposite - but IF you want to invest in a system with a view to growing and adding in later years then you should NOT invest in DSLR. OTOH, BECAUSE it's dead technology, DSLR stuff is often quite a bit cheaper than the equivalent mirrorless, providing a relatively low cost way of buying decent kit. There's also no doubt that the new mirrorless cameras can help a photographer have a better chance of taking correctly exposed and focussed pictures than the older tech, but both work fine.
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I feel I may be being a bit pedantic here, but it's a serious question.. In what way is mirrorless more popular? As in more people talking about mirrorless currently than dslr?
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I agree, although I can be pretty sure I am unlikely turn mirrorless at my age (but never say never). While DSLRs are increasingly yesterday's child they will always have a purpose and will continue to take photographs as well as any mirrorless, indeed as any camera will ever take a photograph, for the simple reason that already the resolution of modern cameras -- and more notably, lenses -- far outweighs the ability of the human eye to detect any appreciable difference between any modern camera, unless pixel-peeping is your bag.
The OP is looking for a camera to start off with and I strongly believe that the investment in mirrorless at this time would be the wrong way to go. Three or four hundred quid on the second-hand market will get one a pretty reasonable DSLR camera and lens combination and no great loss if the call to mirrorless becomes too strong, or indeed, if the urge to take photographs evaporates.
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Well, it's my understanding that mirrorless outsells DSLR's. As it would really, insofar as not many people make them.
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Quite. YouTube is full of mirrorless this or mirrorless that but then it is also full of videos about electric vehicles or AI -- because it's the latest thing. Yes, if someone wants a new camera these days, they are probably going to look at mirrorless first and then buy that, and that per se, makes them more 'popular' amongst those that have, or are about to have, one. You could say Windows 11 is popular but there are millions of folk out there still on Windows 10 or even 8.1. If it does the job, it doesn't really matter what is popular, what is important is that it works and DSLRs still work and work well.
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I think probably go to a camera store and look for entry level camera's is good advice. But I don't work DSLR's all that well, not bad with my D 7000 Nikon but it has a lot of stuff I'm never gonna figure out. Really like the camera and thing I do well with it. With what I know today though for just getting started I'd skip the DSLR and go with a point and shoot. Have had several and get really nice photo's from them and not all the extra stuff in the camera that has me berried. Have looked and tried for a number of years to find a point and shoot that will last and easy to transport without getting broke or just failing. Think I might have found it now. Got a Panasonic ZS 100 and was on the verge of sending it back till got help from a member here. The camera came used, actually turned back in by some else that couldn't figure it out. I was told to reset the camera and given instruction's how to do it and wouldn't give it up for nothing now. Can't use everything but doesn't matter as I get what I call great photo's anyway and for moving around it fit's into a belt pouch and out of the way. Resetting it made everything pretty simple And I really do as well with it as I do my D 7000. I like the view finder on the 7000 over the screen on the Panasonic but easily learned to live with the screen. I can always go back to something I wan with my D 7000 and look experienced and get about as good a photo as with my Panasonic but with my D 7000 I have a couple extra lenses' that definitely give the Nikon a good advantage.
The Panasonic lens works out to a 25-250 lens which Is really nice for about 95% of what I do. But two extra lenses' for the Nikon push it far ahead for some things. That would be a 55-300 Nikon lens and a 170-500 Sigma lens. But on my Nikon my most used lens is an 18-200 Tamron lens. Advantage to the DSLR is the ability to use extra and after market lens'. If you want to shoot wildlife or birds the Nikon and it's extra places it well above the Panasonic!
I think before the Panasonic the most I paid was about $300 +/- and got camera's that worked well for about a year and went ten toes up on me. The Panasonic cost me far less than the $595 new price as it was called used. I also ordered the belt case with it, absolutely no regrets at this time, would do it again in a heart beat. I'm pretty sure there are other point and shoot's out there in this class but I guessing to equal this is gonna cost a lot more than a new ZS 100 cost's!
If money matter's a lot, there are a good number of P&S camera's out there for something over $300 that may and may not work for you. Two I had that failed on me within a year were a Nikon and a Canon but at time's I can be hard on a P&S camera. I go in the field with dog and shoot them working and have fallen a number of times. Has to be hard on a camera! So in fairness my trouble with both the Nikon and Canon could well be my own fault. But have to say this Panasonic goes to the same places with me and simply looks and feels like a better camera. Also should mention that the Nikon and the Canon both also gave me very good picture's. I got both of them because I was looking for a camera to carry bird hunting with me and figured it wouldn't get used that much. Both were used in more situation's. The Nikon I gave to my grandson and he get's along alright with it. Hasn't got a clue what he's doing, take's after me! The Canon simply gave up the ghost and was sent off to a shop and never heard a word from them about it, I simply wrote it off.
So, DSLR or point and shoot? At your stage I'd definitely say P&S and spend more than a couple hundred dollars on it. Once you get more experience you should consider a DSLR if for no other reason's the extra lens' you can use on it. Oh and keep in mind that a lot of us have a prejudiced view on camera's and brands that might work for you and might not. Notice my view on the Panasonic ZS 100 but I've also went through four or five other less expensive camera's before getting it and even then it took a guy on here to get me to keep it and realize how good it might be. And if it's DSLR's, I recommend Nikon's. Not because they are better than anything else but because they are the only DSLR I've ever used! have used a number of different film SLR's and finally settled in on Nikon. They are likely no better than any other camera brand, just what I am used to!
The Panasonic lens works out to a 25-250 lens which Is really nice for about 95% of what I do. But two extra lenses' for the Nikon push it far ahead for some things. That would be a 55-300 Nikon lens and a 170-500 Sigma lens. But on my Nikon my most used lens is an 18-200 Tamron lens. Advantage to the DSLR is the ability to use extra and after market lens'. If you want to shoot wildlife or birds the Nikon and it's extra places it well above the Panasonic!
I think before the Panasonic the most I paid was about $300 +/- and got camera's that worked well for about a year and went ten toes up on me. The Panasonic cost me far less than the $595 new price as it was called used. I also ordered the belt case with it, absolutely no regrets at this time, would do it again in a heart beat. I'm pretty sure there are other point and shoot's out there in this class but I guessing to equal this is gonna cost a lot more than a new ZS 100 cost's!
If money matter's a lot, there are a good number of P&S camera's out there for something over $300 that may and may not work for you. Two I had that failed on me within a year were a Nikon and a Canon but at time's I can be hard on a P&S camera. I go in the field with dog and shoot them working and have fallen a number of times. Has to be hard on a camera! So in fairness my trouble with both the Nikon and Canon could well be my own fault. But have to say this Panasonic goes to the same places with me and simply looks and feels like a better camera. Also should mention that the Nikon and the Canon both also gave me very good picture's. I got both of them because I was looking for a camera to carry bird hunting with me and figured it wouldn't get used that much. Both were used in more situation's. The Nikon I gave to my grandson and he get's along alright with it. Hasn't got a clue what he's doing, take's after me! The Canon simply gave up the ghost and was sent off to a shop and never heard a word from them about it, I simply wrote it off.
So, DSLR or point and shoot? At your stage I'd definitely say P&S and spend more than a couple hundred dollars on it. Once you get more experience you should consider a DSLR if for no other reason's the extra lens' you can use on it. Oh and keep in mind that a lot of us have a prejudiced view on camera's and brands that might work for you and might not. Notice my view on the Panasonic ZS 100 but I've also went through four or five other less expensive camera's before getting it and even then it took a guy on here to get me to keep it and realize how good it might be. And if it's DSLR's, I recommend Nikon's. Not because they are better than anything else but because they are the only DSLR I've ever used! have used a number of different film SLR's and finally settled in on Nikon. They are likely no better than any other camera brand, just what I am used to!
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This is a personal opinion (obviously) but I would look at a second hand dslr, simply because they are soo cheap now, and they won't lose any more value so you will get the little money you spend back in future if you decide you want to upgrade to something modern, whereas if you buy something modern now, you will lose money when you come to sell in future.
Some suggestions from myself..
Nikon D200.. £90.. CCD sensor, old technology now but considered by many to be the best sensor for skin tones. Poor low light performance. Professional control layout.
Nikon D90.. £100.. More modern CMOS sensor, has 'beginner' auto modes, great colour rendition, all around nice camera. My first dslr. Takes video.
Nikon D300s.. £130.. CMOS sensor, professional control layout, takes video, weather sealed.
Nikon D700.. £300.. Full frame, professional camera, considered by many to be the pinnacle of Nikon cameras for it's beautiful images it produces, pretty much a one of a kind, excellent low light performance, aptly named 'the legend'.
These are rough prices going off of MPB, In my opinion none will lose any more value as they are pretty much rock bottom and appear to be increasing in value recently.
Some suggestions from myself..
Nikon D200.. £90.. CCD sensor, old technology now but considered by many to be the best sensor for skin tones. Poor low light performance. Professional control layout.
Nikon D90.. £100.. More modern CMOS sensor, has 'beginner' auto modes, great colour rendition, all around nice camera. My first dslr. Takes video.
Nikon D300s.. £130.. CMOS sensor, professional control layout, takes video, weather sealed.
Nikon D700.. £300.. Full frame, professional camera, considered by many to be the pinnacle of Nikon cameras for it's beautiful images it produces, pretty much a one of a kind, excellent low light performance, aptly named 'the legend'.
These are rough prices going off of MPB, In my opinion none will lose any more value as they are pretty much rock bottom and appear to be increasing in value recently.
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It's not really giving the full picture though, is it? I mean Ford are axing the Fiesta so at some point you could say that the Ferrari.. Lamborghini.. Zonda.. (insert model) is more popular than the Ford Fiesta, but it's not really, is it? Again, I feel like I'm being pedantic here, but I feel people naturally have a tendency to go for something if they think it's more popular, which I feel is unnecessary, certainly in this case.
Certainly from a monetary perspective, it makes more sense to go for an older dslr than a newer mirrorless camera which is almost certain to devalue as newer models come out.
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I don't think we know whether the OP wants to learn about photography or just take photographs with something other than a phone. If it's the latter then you are right, if it's the former then they'd get more out of, say, the D7000, than a Point and Shoot.
...and very, very quickly judging by the rate at which new models are hitting the market. With Sony's new A9iii and it's innovations you can be assured that the rate of release of new cameras will rise exponentially over the next two years.
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Ya know, talking about value down the road. I held off getting a digital, I had a couple film cameras I really liked that worked for me. But the cost of film, developing and printing kept going up and it was getting expensive to shoot film. Then a few month's before I went digital I invested in a new Nikon D5 film camera. Seems I paid something like $1500 for it. Then a D70 Nikon digital caught my eye nd I got it. At the same time I got an 8 1/2" printer. Haven't had much film developed since then, almost 25 yrs ago! Today I have my digitals and still have the Nikon D5 and a Yashica twin lens camera, seldom ever use either though. Got to thinking about that D5 and how much it cost me so looked it up and boy has the bottom fallen out of it! My $1500 camera is only worth something like $350 today! Don't spend your money for a camera as an investment, their price will go down over time; you won't likely recover your investment. Buy a camera to use basing the price your willing to pay on what you hope to get for results with the camera! Enjoy photography, not collecting equipment. I do have a few older film camera's that use 620 film and haven't a clue where to get film for them. Kind of nice to look back to where things started for me but truth be known the old 620 film camera's I have I have never used. Simply take them out to admire now and then. Gave about $10 each for them in second hand store's! Buy something to learn on and when you out grow it, get something more modern. Learn it and your on the way!
Buy something to learn on and when you out grow it, get something more modern. Learn it and your on the way!
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And in my opinion, older dslr's will increase in value as the become deemed 'vintage'.
ancient_mariner
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F5? D5 is digital.
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We don't know if he want's to learn or just take picture's, your right! I wonder if any of us knew that when we started? Something I'm pretty sure of the best most expensive camera in the wrong hands could be replaced with a P&S film camera. Before he'll ever get good results from pretty much any camera first he needs to learn how to take a picture! I'm thinking he learning.
Did I say D5? Your right F5 is film!
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But you're comparing the new price you paid to the current second hand price. Old film cameras have been increasing steadily, so if you had bought that F5 a few years ago, you would likely be selling it for more today.Ya know, talking about value down the road. I held off getting a digital, I had a couple film cameras I really liked that worked for me. But the cost of film, developing and printing kept going up and it was getting expensive to shoot film. Then a few month's before I went digital I invested in a new Nikon D5 film camera. Seems I paid something like $1500 for it. Then a D70 Nikon digital caught my eye nd I got it. At the same time I got an 8 1/2" printer. Haven't had much film developed since then, almost 25 yrs ago! Today I have my digitals and still have the Nikon D5 and a Yashica twin lens camera, seldom ever use either though. Got to thinking about that D5 and how much it cost me so looked it up and boy has the bottom fallen out of it! My $1500 camera is only worth something like $350 today! Don't spend your money for a camera as an investment, their price will go down over time; you won't likely recover your investment. Buy a camera to use basing the price your willing to pay on what you hope to get for results with the camera! Enjoy photography, not collecting equipment. I do have a few older film camera's that use 620 film and haven't a clue where to get film for them. Kind of nice to look back to where things started for me but truth be known the old 620 film camera's I have I have never used. Simply take them out to admire now and then. Gave about $10 each for them in second hand store's!
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OK, to help you better, what sort of things do you take pictures of and what do you want to photograph in the future. How much is your budget?
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New camera sales.
Not that it’s the most pertinent point, but then I don’t think anyone suggested it was.
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I don't think new sales is strong enough to suggest more popular. I can think of a lot of things that have higher sales currently but wouldn't be deemed most popular. I don't think it's a fair assessment.
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But that’s just a fact about all s/h v brand new items.
The bit about cars is just bonkers. The products aren’t comparable.
If you want to discuss the fact that Ford are discontinuing the fiesta because the market has shifted and fiestas are being outsold by Pumas, then that’s kinda comparable. BTW it’ll be decades before there are more Pumas in the world than there are Fiestas. But that doesn’t alter the fact that people would rather buy a new Puma than Fiesta. Otherwise Ford would be making a big mistake.
And back to cameras, the manufacturers are obviously driving as well as following the market. But the fact remains, they’ve decided that mirrorless is the future. ergo DSLRs are the past.
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You’re entitled to ‘think’ whatever you like. It doesn’t make it a fact.
woof woof
I like a nice Chianti
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You often don't have to pixel peep to tell a mirrorless picture from a DSLR one. For example a picture with the subjects face away from an area DSLR's have their focus points is maybe a give away. Just a small example of an advantage of being able to focus accurately and consistently anywhere in the frame with face/eye detect.
Ok, if you never take people picture then that wonderful ability doesn't matter
Oh, and three or four hundred on the second hand market could well get you some decent mirrorless kit.
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Buy Used. Buy Mirrorless
For £500 you can easily get started in APSC mirrorless. Maybe, FF at a push!
IMO there are enough benefits of mirrorless to prefer it over DSLR especially for beginners.
For £500 you can easily get started in APSC mirrorless. Maybe, FF at a push!
IMO there are enough benefits of mirrorless to prefer it over DSLR especially for beginners.
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You often don't have to pixel peep to tell a mirrorless picture from a DSLR one. For example a picture with the subjects face away from an area DSLR's have their focus points is maybe a give away. Just a small example of an advantage of being able to focus accurately and consistently anywhere in the frame with face/eye detect.
Ok, if you never take people picture then that wonderful ability doesn't matter
Oh, and three or four hundred on the second hand market could well get you some decent mirrorless kit.
My camera doesn't have face/eye detect but even if it did, I wouldn't use it, I use single point focus, almost all the time. Perhaps it comes from my past when I used manual focus lenses and single point focus was all I had i.e. what my eye saw, I focussed on, QED.
What interchangeable lens mirrorless can you buy (of the same quality as a decent DSLR) for four hundred quid, camera and lens?
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The advantage of mirrorless for beginners is it's what they learn on. I drone for a living most my life and ran into a lot of people that could not drive a standard transmission, second nature to me.Buy Used. Buy Mirrorless
For £500 you can easily get started in APSC mirrorless. Maybe, FF at a push!
IMO there are enough benefits of mirrorless to prefer it over DSLR especially for beginners.
Especially at my point in life I see no reason to go mirrorless. A mirrorless is an improvement in the tool I'm pretty sure but for an old guy learning to change hid way can be troublesome. Ya know I don't even know what they call the mirror cameras like I use!
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Here’s the cultural landscape difference.
You’ll find very few people on this forum who have only ever driven auto cars.
We all know how to drive manual gearboxes.
And back to your actual point.
I used only Manual focus cameras for the first 20 years of my photographic ‘career’, but when I started shooting AF I grasped the opportunities to improve my output. (And yes I was very late to the AF party - I used what I knew)
And every step change in AF ability since has made life a little easier. And now - as a people photographer, eye AF is literally a game changer. In 40 years, it’s the single biggest technical improvement for me.
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You're completely missing my point. My point was that just because a certain product, any certain product, is selling in larger quantities now than another product, much less a product that is no longer in production, in no way makes it more popular. And that IS a fact, if you're going by the Oxford dictionary, and generally accepted definition of 'popular'.
Shifts in market demands, or the reasons why a product is no longer in production, or why one product is selling in larger quantities than another need not come in to it.