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- John
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Bit of a scrap going on here! Still on a learning curve with LightRoom, so I'd welcome some real critique here - give it both barrells without pulling your punches! 
Critique Boys will be boys!
- Thread starter FourRingCircus
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No comments on the processing as I'm no expert, but that's a great action shot. The bent up tail feathers give a real sense of the intensity of it all. I'm tempted to say that even in aggression pheasants look stupid, but as anyone who's been involved with them learns very quickly, they're anything but.
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Hi John...I think this is by far the best shot you have posted this year, showing some great action with some very nice lighting.
One thing I have noticed with your bird photography, is that you like to fill the frame with the bird, which in my opinion always leads to an image which is all bird and no picture, so to speak. But this image is almost spot on, it just needs a bit more room at the bottom ( about and inch of canvas ) providing you have it. If you look at the righthand Pheas, its right wing is about an inch from the edge of the frame and so is it's tail, if you do the same with the left foot of the lefthand Pheas then the framing will be just about spot on and as I stated above, all this depends on whether or not you have the room.
Your processing looks good to me, so wouldn't change much on that side of things.
So, all in all a superb shot of a Pheasant dispute
One thing I have noticed with your bird photography, is that you like to fill the frame with the bird, which in my opinion always leads to an image which is all bird and no picture, so to speak. But this image is almost spot on, it just needs a bit more room at the bottom ( about and inch of canvas ) providing you have it. If you look at the righthand Pheas, its right wing is about an inch from the edge of the frame and so is it's tail, if you do the same with the left foot of the lefthand Pheas then the framing will be just about spot on and as I stated above, all this depends on whether or not you have the room.
Your processing looks good to me, so wouldn't change much on that side of things.
So, all in all a superb shot of a Pheasant dispute
OP
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Sorry Bill - my stupid ommission!!
1Dxii, 1000mm (500+2x), 1/1600s, ,F11, ISO 2500 - prety much my standard 'user setting' these days where ISO is Auto and can please itself.
Processing has been fairly basic stuff without any sliders going to extremes. No cloning or such like. Lens adjustment, NR to about 60 and the rest to 50, ,Sharpness to 50, then just play with the basics until I'm happy, but I rarely slide anything beyond +/-25-30
As far as my feelings are concerned, I certainly didn't go out looking for pheasants. I was sitting for three hours in the hope that the plethera of Fieldfares around me would go to the rowan tree which was less than 5m from me, but they knew I was there all along. While waiting, I caught these two appearing out of the corner of my eye and the rest is down to pressing the shutter.
The close crop at the bottom is down to a rather large cow-pat in the frame below the foot of the left bird. This then dictated the rest of the frame for me.
As for a negative, well, I'm just surprised that such an unexciting subject can produce such a nice shot. I normnally spend hours seeking out rare raptors and such like, so I tend to overlook this type of thing. Perhaps that's my mistake.
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Sorry Bill - my stupid ommission!!
1Dxii, 1000mm (500+2x), 1/1600s, ,F11, ISO 2500 - prety much my standard 'user setting' these days where ISO is Auto and can please itself.
Processing has been fairly basic stuff without any sliders going to extremes. No cloning or such like. Lens adjustment, NR to about 60 and the rest to 50, ,Sharpness to 50, then just play with the basics until I'm happy, but I rarely slide anything beyond +/-25-30
As far as my feelings are concerned, I certainly didn't go out looking for pheasants. I was sitting for three hours in the hope that the plethera of Fieldfares around me would go to the rowan tree which was less than 5m from me, but they knew I was there all along. While waiting, I caught these two appearing out of the corner of my eye and the rest is down to pressing the shutter.
The close crop at the bottom is down to a rather large cow-pat in the frame below the foot of the left bird. This then dictated the rest of the frame for me.
As for a negative, well, I'm just surprised that such an unexciting subject can produce such a nice shot. I normnally spend hours seeking out rare raptors and such like, so I tend to overlook this type of thing. Perhaps that's my mistake.
Hi John, first of all it is an attractive shot, the action, the birds, the colours, the light.
I know that you care about your photography and are keen to take better and better shots, (as many of us are)
So my comments relate to what I have learn and picked up on here and other sites and from reviewing my own images
Composition - as indicated by Andy, you favour tight crops and I have found that crops are very personal and create a lot of discussion and mixed opinions. For me I am not at all against "tight crops" but I just think that the crop should suit the image. When you have "actions" shots like the one that you have posted, because you are not particularly homing in on detail, I feel more space around the subject(s) is of benefit to show the environment and to allow the action to breath, certainly I would like to see more space at the bottom .... and would try more space around, even if it mean't cloning one or two objects away. I see that the image is a constrained 3 x 2, that is what I favour most of the time.
The position of the birds in the frame certainly works as does the interaction between them.
In camera settings. Even though you have used 1/1600th sec, I have found, through experience, that this is too slow for a shot like this, 1/2500th sec would be my preferred base. I think that if you look at the image, (head, feet, etc.,) carefully it is not sharpe enough, (obviously it is "sharpe", but not sharpe enough). This has been caused by bird movement that the chosen SS has been too slow to prevent ..... some would however say that a slight "blur" shows movement which is attractive .. but even so I like to see sharpness in the birds head
f11 - not sure why you used this unless you felt that you needed a little extra DOF
ISO 2500, I'm sure that this is low enough for your kit and you could have pushed it further to be able to use a higher SS
Processing - nothing wrong with that, light and colours good - WB seems good - I would just play around with the shadows and highlights a little both overall and in the mid tones to see if you could bring out more detail whilst keeping the attractive light.
You could also try a little more sharpening, particularly local sharpening of the birds heads
crop size?
Hope this helps
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- Richard
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Like the action and good colours in this, for me the crop is a little too tight and as other have said above it is a personal choice, but this just feels too tight.
Good advice re shutter speeds above
Good advice re shutter speeds above
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John the image just requires more space in my humble opinion.
However its still a mouth watering shot.
Paul.
However its still a mouth watering shot.
Paul.
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Hi John,
This is undoubtedly a superb image, but you specifically asked for critique, so here goes...
At the time of shooting.
The moment of action is timed extremely well, there is eye contact and 2 really nice poses, especially for the airborne bird on our right.
The colour of the light is beautiful, and has allowed detail in the whites on the neck, not east with these birds. Ideally, I'd have said you want to have the light behind you, with your shadow pointing at the birds. I accept there are a couple of weaknesses on this point on this occasion, in that you wouldn't have got the same angle on this shot, and you might not physically have been able to get into that position, but if you can next time, it will reduce the areas of shadow on the tails and on the left hand birds belly.
With your gear, I'd have also recommended a stop faster shutter speed for increased sharpness in little areas like the feet. The ISO will take it as long as you're not doing massive crops.
The PP stage.
You've produced a nicely detailed shot here, much better than previous shots, and in quite contrasty light as well.
There is still a little more detail to be had from the right hand birds wings. This is the bit I'd normally do in PS, but in LR you could click on the adjustment brush, click on the wings using a feathered brush and reduce the highlights. That will bring back detail without affecting the rest of the image. I tried in the 50-60 point reduction range and it looked good.
As mentioned above, the shot could do with a little bit more space below. As it's an action shot I think going in tight works well, but a little bit extra below would help.
It may be a bit of an optical illusion, but it looks to me like it could do with a bit of a clockwise rotation. In the LR develop module, click on 'R', then when you move your cursor just outside the frame should change to an option where you can rotate the shot.
I'd also add a little more sharpening to the birds.
This is actually one of my favourite shots from you John, and I'd be happy with this in my files, but you did request brutal critique!!
Mike
This is undoubtedly a superb image, but you specifically asked for critique, so here goes...
At the time of shooting.
The moment of action is timed extremely well, there is eye contact and 2 really nice poses, especially for the airborne bird on our right.
The colour of the light is beautiful, and has allowed detail in the whites on the neck, not east with these birds. Ideally, I'd have said you want to have the light behind you, with your shadow pointing at the birds. I accept there are a couple of weaknesses on this point on this occasion, in that you wouldn't have got the same angle on this shot, and you might not physically have been able to get into that position, but if you can next time, it will reduce the areas of shadow on the tails and on the left hand birds belly.
With your gear, I'd have also recommended a stop faster shutter speed for increased sharpness in little areas like the feet. The ISO will take it as long as you're not doing massive crops.
The PP stage.
You've produced a nicely detailed shot here, much better than previous shots, and in quite contrasty light as well.
There is still a little more detail to be had from the right hand birds wings. This is the bit I'd normally do in PS, but in LR you could click on the adjustment brush, click on the wings using a feathered brush and reduce the highlights. That will bring back detail without affecting the rest of the image. I tried in the 50-60 point reduction range and it looked good.
As mentioned above, the shot could do with a little bit more space below. As it's an action shot I think going in tight works well, but a little bit extra below would help.
It may be a bit of an optical illusion, but it looks to me like it could do with a bit of a clockwise rotation. In the LR develop module, click on 'R', then when you move your cursor just outside the frame should change to an option where you can rotate the shot.
I'd also add a little more sharpening to the birds.
This is actually one of my favourite shots from you John, and I'd be happy with this in my files, but you did request brutal critique!!
Mike
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I am no expert by a long way but I feel I must comment on this one. I can.t see why it would be considered to tight in the frame, all the action and interaction is directed inward and both birds well set out in the frame.
I think it is fantastic and tells the complete story.
I think it is fantastic and tells the complete story.
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Firstly, thank-you to all who have taken the time to comment. Anyone who thinks they have sailed close to the wind in terms of their honesty or brutality is way off the mark. If this is as brutal as you can be, then maybe I'm looking at my own shots with far too much of a critical eye!
Rather than quote/answer loads of comments, I'll take the salient points and respond:
Framing - Yes, I like them tight....
However, even I will concede that it would have been nice to have given Andy an extra inch of canvas at the bottom! The issue (as you will see below) is a large dump of cow-s*** just below the left birds foot. I dare say that someone more proficient in the dark arts of cloning would make a breeze of this, but I'm afraid I'm still a bit of a Luddite when it comes to image manipulation of this nature.
Shutter Speed - I have my 'C1' setting at 1/1600 with a 1000mm focal length. This is designed to be a catch-all for opportunist shots, which I consider 99% of my photography is. I am not proficient enough to make adjustments mid-shoot and since virtually none of my shots are planned, this again is 'what it is'. Anyone who thinks that this type of shot can be planned in advance must have access to a damned good wildlife crystal ball. The impressive ISO abilities of the 1Dxii has allowed me to increase my 'C1' settings (from 1/1000 F8 with the 5D3) so perhaps I need to look at going up a bit further. However, the pheasants were shot in really good (relatively low) sunshine yet still arrived at 2500 ISO. At ths time of year in Scotland, I need my C1 to account for less than ideal conditions. My recent Hen Harrier shot at the C1 settings turned out reasonably well at 8000 ISO, but I imagine that a higher shutter speed may have been ruined by the subsequently higher ISO.
F11 - I'm finding this to be a bit of a sweet spot for this lens combo. F8 will obvioulsy negate a higher shutter speed, but the DoF at this focal length just isn't enough. I've noticed a huge (positive) difference in my shots since moving to F11.
Crop / Angle - see the images below for the SOOC capture(s)
Direction of light - Mike, I know exactly what you are saying, but these guys appeared and started their scrap to my left when I was positioned (for the sunlight) to be catching fieldfares in front of me. What could I do? If I'd moved, they woul have been off in a heartbeat to continue their scrap elsewhere. See the comment above about the wildlife crystal ball...
OK, here's the advantage of a fast camera, and NO!..... I didn't machine gun it. Bursts of three or four at a time - I just didn't think to adjust anything in between. Shots are in chronological order and I know it's a shame about the couple with the left bird slightly out of the frame and the couple with just too many shadows! Warts and all.
Rather than quote/answer loads of comments, I'll take the salient points and respond:
Framing - Yes, I like them tight....
However, even I will concede that it would have been nice to have given Andy an extra inch of canvas at the bottom! The issue (as you will see below) is a large dump of cow-s*** just below the left birds foot. I dare say that someone more proficient in the dark arts of cloning would make a breeze of this, but I'm afraid I'm still a bit of a Luddite when it comes to image manipulation of this nature.Shutter Speed - I have my 'C1' setting at 1/1600 with a 1000mm focal length. This is designed to be a catch-all for opportunist shots, which I consider 99% of my photography is. I am not proficient enough to make adjustments mid-shoot and since virtually none of my shots are planned, this again is 'what it is'. Anyone who thinks that this type of shot can be planned in advance must have access to a damned good wildlife crystal ball. The impressive ISO abilities of the 1Dxii has allowed me to increase my 'C1' settings (from 1/1000 F8 with the 5D3) so perhaps I need to look at going up a bit further. However, the pheasants were shot in really good (relatively low) sunshine yet still arrived at 2500 ISO. At ths time of year in Scotland, I need my C1 to account for less than ideal conditions. My recent Hen Harrier shot at the C1 settings turned out reasonably well at 8000 ISO, but I imagine that a higher shutter speed may have been ruined by the subsequently higher ISO.
F11 - I'm finding this to be a bit of a sweet spot for this lens combo. F8 will obvioulsy negate a higher shutter speed, but the DoF at this focal length just isn't enough. I've noticed a huge (positive) difference in my shots since moving to F11.
Crop / Angle - see the images below for the SOOC capture(s)
Direction of light - Mike, I know exactly what you are saying, but these guys appeared and started their scrap to my left when I was positioned (for the sunlight) to be catching fieldfares in front of me. What could I do? If I'd moved, they woul have been off in a heartbeat to continue their scrap elsewhere. See the comment above about the wildlife crystal ball...
OK, here's the advantage of a fast camera, and NO!..... I didn't machine gun it. Bursts of three or four at a time - I just didn't think to adjust anything in between. Shots are in chronological order and I know it's a shame about the couple with the left bird slightly out of the frame and the couple with just too many shadows! Warts and all.
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OP
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I've heard it said that (like me) you're a s*** stirrer...... Now at least we have proof that your a s*** shoveller!!!
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I've heard it said that (like me) you're a s*** stirrer...... Now at least we have proof that your a s*** soveller!!!
as they say "Boys will be Boys"