Budget (ish) Portable flash

HoppyUK said:
LOL quite :D The more you look into it, the more it makes sense to have different kit for outdoors and studio :( There is no all-in-one solution.

I think that if you want to explore lighting seriously, you need modelling lights, as it's just such a faff without that you won't bother and always play safe. It's one of the reason I always recommend studio heads for beginners instead of speedlites (the other main reason being fast recycle). TBH, I suspect that a lot of those with home portrait studios using speedlites simply put up a softbox or shoot-through umbrella, position it a bit to one side, and never change it. Basic, easy, foolproof, and also looks very good mostly, but they'll never develop creatively.

For still life and product work, I would simply hate to be without a modelling light. With that kind of subject, just moving the light a few inches, or tilting a reflector a few degrees, is what makes the shot.
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Yes. And for professionals, it's really a no brainer.
We all know that any skilled photographer can turn out reasonably good quality in any situation, consistently, with or without the ideal equipment - but having the right equipment always gives one an edge, and soon justifies its cost simply because it becomes possible and often easy to produce something that the competition can't.

There's also the question of redundancy. Having location lighting that can also be used in the studio, and studio lighting that can also be used on location, provides a safeguard against breakdown.
And another point, often overlooked, is that in these days of H&S gone mad, it's a lot easier for photographers not to have to plug their equipment into someone else's mains supply - that in itself is a good enough reason for pros to have a battery powered kit.

For still life work, a modelling lamp is absoluely essential. I'll go further - the modelling lamps need to be very powerful, the dim ones fitted to portable lighting kits and cheaply made studio lighting kits just aren't up to the job.
(Finste)
I'd also cite the convenience factor as well. Unless you can use your battery pack via the mains you have to ensure that the batteries are charged when you want to use them. (Quadras can be used like this but the lithium battery gets very hot). Not a biggie I know but mains power is just so convenient.
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That depends on the make/model. The Safari Li-on can be charged in use if required, and doesn't get very warm. But with 400 full power pops, there really isn't any need to do that.
As far as having two systems is concerned, that may well be a fact of life until we see a massive jump in battery technology, which to be honest is the same for almost all electronics these days.
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I don't see any significant improvements to battery technology coming along in the forseeable.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I don't see any significant improvements to battery technology coming along in the forseeable.
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Even if you were mistaken and something new came out tomorrow it'd take a couple of years before products using it started showing up...

If you really need something to use in both situations wouldn't it make sense to start spending the extra on something like the Priolite MBX heads? Although it does cost as much as buying two sets of kit. :eek:
 
simonbarker said:
Even if you were mistaken and something new came out tomorrow it'd take a couple of years before products using it started showing up...

If you really need something to use in both situations wouldn't it make sense to start spending the extra on something like the Priolite MBX heads? Although it does cost as much as buying two sets of kit. :eek:
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Priolite MBX doesn't look that special, no kind of breakthrough product, and they don't seem to have caught on - just a monoblock with LED modelling light (non-adjustable) and integral battery back. Poor performance compared to mains powered, big and very heavy. Profoto for that kind of money.
 
I think we have to accept 2 lots of lights (not necessarily kit), a full set of studio kit at starter/semi pro levels isn't that expensive, and an atom and s fit adaptor isn't loads of money either.

We can do most of what we need to do outdoors with one head (or Atom) and flash guns. I'm currently using just flash guns (though needing more power is the reason for this thread).
 
Phil,

Everyone laughed when a manufacturer brought out a power supply for speedlites but in your case they would be ideal as it would overcome the battery issue by utilising one of the portable power packs with a multiway flying lead....(Invatronic like ... Spelling Test ..Fail)

Yes, the pack would be heavy but it would negate the battery issue and would also provide power should you need the extra umph that a studio head may offer.
 
Tugster said:
Phil,

Everyone laughed when a manufacturer brought out a power supply for speedlites but in your case they would be ideal as it would overcome the battery issue by utilising one of the portable power packs with a multiway flying lead....(Invatronic like ... Spelling Test ..Fail)

Yes, the pack would be heavy but it would negate the battery issue and would also provide power should you need the extra umph that a studio head may offer.
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If I've understood properly; Isn't that the opposite of useful?

Not enough flash power when plugged in, but still tied to the sockets, and not enough power when used with the expensive power packs on location.

The Atom gives a similar amount of light to a 600w head (about 6 decent speedlights), is portable and the small power pack is good for a whole days shooting.
 
It depends what you call portable and what your lighting level requirement are. It was your good self who mentioned a 3 day battery cycle process before a shoot.
 
Tugster said:
It depends what you call portable and what your lighting level requirement are. It was your good self who mentioned a 3 day battery cycle process before a shoot.
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The line about a 3 day charging cycle before a job was in response to the suggestion I could use multiple speedlights. It's not a practical solution, I know some people make it work, but it's not the solution for me. Some people even go for banks of top of the range speedlights, they're the same cost as the bloody Profoto B1 for crying out loud.
 
Phil V said:
If I've understood properly; Isn't that the opposite of useful?

Not enough flash power when plugged in, but still tied to the sockets, and not enough power when used with the expensive power packs on location.

The Atom gives a similar amount of light to a 600w head (about 6 decent speedlights), is portable and the small power pack is good for a whole days shooting.
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What? No way on earth. See post #25.

I would be pleasantly surprised if the Atom 180 was double the power of a top-end speedlite, and the Atom 360 possibly four times. That's assuming that the Atom's IGBT-type Ws are the same size Ws as other studio-type heads, but that is something of a moveable feast and not a given. For example, the Calumet versions of the Atom are miraculously rated at 200Ws and 400Ws...

But having said that, there's no doubting the Atoms are very punchy for such small units.
 
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HoppyUK said:
What? No way on earth. See post #25.

I would be pleasantly surprised if the Atom 180 was double the power of a top-end speedlite, and the Atom 360 possibly four times. That's assuming that the Atom's IGBT-type Ws are the same size Ws as other studio-type heads, but that is something of a moveable feast and not a given. For example, the Calumet versions of the Atom are miraculously rated at 200Ws and 400Ws...

But having said that, there's no doubting the Atoms are very punchy for such small units.
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Ours are described accurately
 
Sorry, I know that but didn't make myself clear.

Many of us, but not all, understand just how imprecise even accurate statements of power can be.
W/s is the best indicator we have, but it is only a statement of the amount of power stored in the capacitors, not a statement of actual output. Actual output can only really be expressed in terms of guide numbers, but as every manufacturer measures their guide numbers in different situations and uses different reflectors, even that isn't particuarly helpful.
For example, hotshoe flashguns are measured at maximum zoom setting, the Atom is measured with its standard reflector, which covers a 28mm lens on a full frame DSLR, so the guide number is far lower. I'm pretty confident that when I measure guide numbers, my very conservative testing environment produces lower guide numbers than most testing environments, but even so someone who I respect tested the Atom 180 and got a lower guide number than I did - this surprised me and only goes to show how difficult it is to produce honest, useful info on any flash.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Sorry, I know that but didn't make myself clear.

Many of us, but not all, understand just how imprecise even accurate statements of power can be.
W/s is the best indicator we have, but it is only a statement of the amount of power stored in the capacitors, not a statement of actual output. Actual output can only really be expressed in terms of guide numbers, but as every manufacturer measures their guide numbers in different situations and uses different reflectors, even that isn't particuarly helpful.
For example, hotshoe flashguns are measured at maximum zoom setting, the Atom is measured with its standard reflector, which covers a 28mm lens on a full frame DSLR, so the guide number is far lower. I'm pretty confident that when I measure guide numbers, my very conservative testing environment produces lower guide numbers than most testing environments, but even so someone who I respect tested the Atom 180 and got a lower guide number than I did - this surprised me and only goes to show how difficult it is to produce honest, useful info on any flash.
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I have no problem with that Garry, not questioning Lencarta's claims at all - only Phil's.

Just thinking about it for a minute, I wonder if Phil meant to say Safari rather than Atlas, in which case the Lencarta Safari Li-ion does indeed have 600 full-fat Ws :)
 
HoppyUK said:
I have no problem with that Garry, not questioning Lencarta's claims at all - only Phil's.

Just thinking about it for a minute, I wonder if Phil meant to say Safari rather than Atlas, in which case the Lencarta Safari Li-ion does indeed have 600 full-fat Ws :)
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I may indeed have got my wucking murds fuddled, it was a bit early to blame it on the wine.

Thanks guys, I'm 90% convinced on the Atom, but I think I'll wait till the Photography show for the decision.
 
Maybe it would have been an idea for you to have had a good play with the Atom/Safari when you came to my shoot a few months ago...
You can always come over to the Lencarta warehouse for that, by arrangement, we will of course have them at the Photography Show but it isn't really the same opportunity.
 
Thanks Garry, I've had a play with some Safari kit with Rob Mank,

When I came to your studio portable flash was miles from my plans, now it's looking likely in the foreseeable future.
 
I have the Atom 180 and it's fairly impressive, very portable, simple and robust. I also really like their triggers. Godox also produce the Xenergizer (Safari clone) and Ving flashgun (with lithium ion battery) all using the same triggers.
 
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