Camera at funeral

[Pookeyhead]

COE where a funeral is mentioned, it's more about grieving than celebrating a person ?? > https://www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/funerals.aspx

I'm sorry but I don't need the church to tell me what a funeral is for. For me, it's remembering that person and celebrating their life. Sure, it's a sad occasion, but the church can sod off it thinks it can tell me what a funeral is for. As for God's keeping... sod that too, but that's just me.

As for shooting at a funeral, you should respect the wishes of the family. The end.

If it was my funeral, sure, knock yourself out, but you should respect the wishes of those that organised the funeral.

 

[dejongj]

If somebody live a good long life,do we always have to to so sad about it when it come to an end

I don't think we have. Especially someone who has had a wonderful run of 98 healthy years peacefully going to sleep. Especially not for someone who who was adored across four generations present.

Naturally everyone is different, I just can't help but feel that too many behave like they think they have to behave.

 

[dejongj]

I'm sorry but I don't need the church to tell me what a funeral is for. For me, it's remembering that person and celebrating their life. Sure, it's a sad occasion, but the church can sod off it thinks it can tell me what a funeral is for. As for God's keeping... sod that too, but that's just me.

As for shooting at a funeral, you should respect the wishes of the family. The end.

If it was my funeral, sure, knock yourself out, but you should respect the wishes of those that organised the funeral.

I am the family well part of it.

Look I am not going to shoot tomorrow, I just find it fascinating to see why people do the things they do. Likewise as someone's said earlier, start smiling when they see a camera when actually they are sad. To me that is weird and alien behaviour, fascinating nevertheless.

Likewise this strong feeling that sad emotions aren't supposed to be captured, yet happy ones are? Yet somehow the most iconic images aren't happy ones, they are the ones that show real people.

Ps. Don't get me wrong, I don't not think it is appropriate to stick a big camera in someone's face when they are crying their eyes out. That really isn't the intent, besides without appropriate context it doesn't do much to me and by itself may not capture the tenderness.

very interesting stuff.

 

[Pookeyhead]

I am the family well part of it.

Yeah I gathered it was a relative or friend, and you weren't just gate crashing random funerals... still the call of whoever organised it though, and I take it that wasn't you.

I just find it fascinating to see why people do the things they do. Likewise as someone's said earlier, start smiling when they see a camera when actually they are sad. To me that is weird and alien behaviour, fascinating nevertheless.

People are mostly strange idiotic creatures. It's also a generational thing. Cultures shift, but it they leave behind a bunch of people who can't in their wake. (no pun intended)

Likewise this strong feeling that sad emotions aren't supposed to be captured, yet happy ones are? Yet somehow the most iconic images aren't happy ones, they are the ones that show real people.

Oh no, we love looking at misery... just not our own

Ps. Don't get me wrong, I don't not think it is appropriate to stick a big camera in someone's face when they are crying their eyes out. That really isn't the intent, besides without appropriate context it doesn't do much to me and by itself may not capture the tenderness.

very interesting stuff.

I don;t think anyone thought you were going to do that. However, convincing the older members of your family may be difficult.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

After exhuming mass graves in Kosovo and before we handed the bodies over to families. In many cases they were quite content to not only photograph but also video the human remains. When I say human remains I mean exactly that. In many cases the bodies were in an advanced state of decomposition and exhibiting skeletal mass. I won't dwell here on the smell or insect intervention but to this day I don't understand why you would want to photograph your loved ones in these circumstances. A cultural difference obviously.

 

[munch]

I have said on here before but one of my regrets is not having any photographs of my father in laws funeral. He was a well respected man and had been awarded the BEM for his services to sport and the community. My daughter was too young to really remember him so this would have been something to help her understand him.

 

[jakeblu]

To be fair, that link actually says "to grieve and to give thanks for the life lived".

I've photographed a few funerals, and am also on a call list at two local hospitals should anyone be unlucky enough to suffer a stillbirth and wish to have some photographs of their baby (which is of course not a fee paying service). I've done that seven times now.

Respect.

 

[Nikon_Nick]

Respect.

^WHS^

 

[ukaskew]

Interesting discussion. I've always felt incredibly awkward at funerals anyway as I always think of them as a positive thing, thinking about their life, the good times etc, so I have to contain my smiles when I think about certain memories etc. I can grieve in private, but it's such a rare occasion to get extended family together, talk about the good times we had with them etc, that I always feel it's a bit of a shame that it's such a sombre occasion. If that was the attitude generally I imagine photography would be less taboo at a funeral.

Fortunately I've never had to attend the funeral of somebody very young, I imagine that may feel different, but certainly for the older people I've had in my life the matter of fact is that it's a certainty, nothing will bring them back.

 

[Lindsay D]

It would be interesting to know what is the norm in other countries.
The USA goes well over the top Funeral and furnishing wise, I wonder if that continues into the Photography of the occasion.

I think it is largely a cultural thing Terry. As was said earlier, we are generally raised to shy away from anything relating to death, to sweep it under the carpet and get it over with.

I agree with what you say about the USA, I'd say it's more open over there. According to some of my friends across the pond, professional funeral photography is not unusual. If nothing else, you'll get to photograph the cakes: http://www.buzzfeed.com/melismashable/funeral-cakes#.kdyWe5R0Z

But overall, I would say it's best to act only if you have been specifically invited to take photographs at the funeral. If this is the case I would advise that the 'event controller' makes it known to guests/mourners that a photographer will be present. Otherwise, it can be useful to keep a miniature camera in your bag or pocket just in case a relative asks for some snaps of something like the flowers.

 

[Lindsay D]

After exhuming mass graves in Kosovo and before we handed the bodies over to families. In many cases they were quite content to not only photograph but also video the human remains. When I say human remains I mean exactly that. In many cases the bodies were in an advanced state of decomposition and exhibiting skeletal mass. I won't dwell here on the smell or insect intervention but to this day I don't understand why you would want to photograph your loved ones in these circumstances. A cultural difference obviously.

I can completely understand your feelings considering what you have seen. That must have been pretty awful for you, but at least you were able to be part of something vitally important for those families.

Funeral photography doesn't necessarily mean photographing the cadaver (if ever) - I think it's more about celebrating friends and families coming together, particularly if they have come from far and wide and may not see each other for many years, or ever again perhaps. This can be formal or relaxed group photography in whichever mood prevails. Not every funeral I have been to has been gloomy.

 

[sturisoma]

I have a very pragmatic view of death anyway, but it wouldn't worry me at all if someone wanted photos of a funeral nor would I think it odd. At my gran's funeral we were all too upset to take photos but afterwards I got some lovely ones of all of her (adult) great grandchildren together in the same place at once. She would have loved that. I can see that for many people it would be seen as disrespectful, and at any funeral it is the living you need to think about and care for

 

[sturisoma]

something to think about - if you were famous then it's considered ok to have photographers, news people, the world, watching and recording your funeral as well as taking account of how many tears certain folk shed. Well, actually not just for famous people - people killed by terrorism are subjected to this too!

 

[Lindsay D]

something to think about - if you were famous then it's considered ok to have photographers, news people, the world, watching and recording your funeral as well as taking account of how many tears certain folk shed. Well, actually not just for famous people - people killed by terrorism are subjected to this too!

That's because if you're famous your passing would be considered as 'newsworthy' in which case the press might record mourners entering or exiting the place of ceremony, and funeral processions are in fact played out in public. The press would not normally attend the ceremony or the wake afterwards, unless specifically invited to do so.

Acts of terrorism are also newsworthy events and it's generally viewed as important that the world is made aware of these tragedies. Sometimes a public service might be held locally to commemorate these victims, as a mark of respect and acknowledgement.

As for the rest of us, it simply comes down to whatever the family of the deceased wants. I don't think anyone here is suggesting otherwise.

 

[odd jim]

something to think about - if you were famous then it's considered ok to have photographers, news people, the world, watching and recording your funeral as well as taking account of how many tears certain folk shed. Well, actually not just for famous people - people killed by terrorism are subjected to this too!

This comes under public interest, and the photographers would be press photographers which is a wholly different scenario and a different discussion in itself.

 

[simonblue]

After exhuming mass graves in Kosovo and before we handed the bodies over to families. In many cases they were quite content to not only photograph but also video the human remains. When I say human remains I mean exactly that. In many cases the bodies were in an advanced state of decomposition and exhibiting skeletal mass. I won't dwell here on the smell or insect intervention but to this day I don't understand why you would want to photograph your loved ones in these circumstances. A cultural difference obviously.

But they were very different circumstances under which theses bodies were found,i travel a fair bit in the pass and have come across a few mass graves like this,and as you say their are many cultural difference out their,and the way people deal with death,once i came across a place where they bury in the front garden,and the kids play over the grave all day long,now you could image the outrage here if kids were to jump over say gran tombstone & grave.

 

[sturisoma]

. I don't think anyone here is suggesting otherwise.

neither was I

 

[sturisoma]

public interest or not, it is still a funeral, still someone's loved one, still has mourners, but has cameras present taking pictures ready to sell to news groups. why should 'the public interest' matter? maybe I was trying to open up the debate a bit, but if you think it's a separate issue then I withdraw my comment

 

[odd jim]

public interest or not, it is still a funeral, still someone's loved one, still has mourners, but has cameras present taking pictures ready to sell to news groups. why should 'the public interest' matter? maybe I was trying to open up the debate a bit, but if you think it's a separate issue then I withdraw my comment

These sorts of funerals never have the paparazzi in the church taking intimate moments. Usually they are camped far away with a telephoto in a public area, I'd argue it's different to the kind of photography that's being discussed, or at least, a tangent away!

 

[dejongj]

Well I'm totally surprised. We had a beautiful celebration mass this morning, absolutely fantastic, so, so many people there. A rush to the crematorium, and back for the wake.

A whole new side from the family was discovered, she was one of 13. Who came out in force. And yep can you guess it, I was the only one without a camera .....

It was photo galore with people for each other and everything. I'm not sad about it, but have learned a lesson to follow my own instinct.

 

[dejongj]

Naturally everyone is different, I just can't help but feel that too many behave like they think they have to behave.

Lol and I did exactly that and ended up being the odd one out. Funny that.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Ever since photography has been invented people have been photographing corpses. The Victorians loved to don mourning clothes and plonk their recently deceased relatives in a chair or prop them up against wall, ideally within six hours of death before rigour mortice has worn off.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

I can completely understand your feelings considering what you have seen. That must have been pretty awful for you, but at least you were able to be part of something vitally important for those families.

Funeral photography doesn't necessarily mean photographing the cadaver (if ever) - I think it's more about celebrating friends and families coming together, particularly if they have come from far and wide and may not see each other for many years, or ever again perhaps. This can be formal or relaxed group photography in whichever mood prevails. Not every funeral I have been to has been gloomy.

It gave me a massive sense of pride being able to repatriate some of the many hundreds of bodies to their families. That said, I have my own doubts over some of the identifications.Sometimes people want to believe they have found their relative. In many cases clothing and boots were taken from the deceased laying in the roads by people fleeing the country. Wallets, watches etc were also scooped up, just because you find them on another body there is no guarantee. Often no dental records were available. DNA is of little use when whole families have been massacred and there are no living blood relatives or they can't be traced. Even in this country I have come across families saying that's not my daughter, she hasn't got any tattoos. Sometimes victims will get them done and not even tell their nearest and dearest. In these cases identification is confirmed by fingerprints, DNA or dental records but we have the infrastructure in the UK to assist with this. Kosovo was a completely different story.

 

[Lindsay D]

It gave me a massive sense of pride being able to repatriate some of the many hundreds of bodies to their families. That said, I have my own doubts over some of the identifications.Sometimes people want to believe they have found their relative. In many cases clothing and boots were taken from the deceased laying in the roads by people fleeing the country. Wallets, watches etc were also scooped up, just because you find them on another body there is no guarantee. Often no dental records were available. DNA is of little use when whole families have been massacred and there are no living blood relatives or they can't be traced. Even in this country I have come across families saying that's not my daughter, she hasn't got any tattoos. Sometimes victims will get them done and not even tell their nearest and dearest. In these cases identification is confirmed by fingerprints, DNA or dental records but we have the infrastructure in the UK to assist with this. Kosovo was a completely different story.

A long time ago my uncle used to be a local authority surveyor/civil engineer and sometimes they would unearth plague pits. Everything would have to stop while the remains (skeletons) were removed and set aside - then using any means possible they would actually try to make identifications or at least create a list from local records. Not a quick process.

Rotten for many of the families concerned (and you and your colleagues), but at least in some cases you were able to reunite them with lost loved ones, under very difficult circumstances.

I've heard that sometimes even lost loved ones who are alive (and just went missing for a number of years) sometimes aren't actual real family members - yet some families will accept them as if they were.

 

[johnb]

I took pics of the flowers at both of my parents funerals but only after the wake & also took the opportunity to say a few things I should have said when they were alive

 

[snap-happy]

These sorts of funerals never have the paparazzi in the church taking intimate moments. Usually they are camped far away with a telephoto in a public area, I'd argue it's different to the kind of photography that's being discussed, or at least, a tangent away!

Press photographers are not paparazzi. There is a difference!

 

[odd jim]

Press photographers are not paparazzi. There is a difference!

Does it matter in this thread?

It's irrelevant. Press or paps, they won't generally be at a normal funeral service.

 

[grove39]

I recently attended my grandmother's funeral. After the internment my mother asked me to take some photos of the floral arrangements so that could she could show them to relatives overseas. I didn't have my camera with me but went home and got it and took photos only after all the other mourners had left the cemetery. Other than that, I really wouldn't feel right taking photos at a funeral. But to each their own.

I've done exactly the same thing for relatives in other countries who couldn't be there. I think it gives them that bit of closure they need but may not want. I've done it a few times so far but i'm not sure i'd be happy taking photos of the whole service. If somebody had pointed a camera at me before, during or after my dad's funeral i would have probably killed them without a second thought.

I know a lot of people do have photos of all of it done so they can remember it all but it makes me wonder how many ever look at those photos. I remember my dad's funeral and many others i've been to and i like to remember them as that faded memory they now are and wouldn't want the harsh reality of the day brought back to me, but each to their own as they say.

 

[snap-happy]

Does it matter in this thread?

It's irrelevant. Press or paps, they won't generally be at a normal funeral service.

You should still know the difference.

 

[odd jim]

You should still know the difference.

I do.

But whats it got to do with thread?

 

[snap-happy]

You raised the subject not me.

 

[odd jim]

Classic internet.

 

[cjevans]

I did a full video of my cousins service here in England before the body was taken back to Ireland, his partner wanted to have the record of it and the family felt they were missing it and got to watch the night before the proper funeral. I felt very odd doing it but it brought comfort to the family so who am I to judge?

 

[bulldog5988]

For the wake after I can see the benefits for family photos, but before or at grave side I would say no. I also don't like seeing some of the photos on here of cemetry and church ground's where people take photos of grave stones etc........ To me it's un-respectful IMO and was the way I was raised for respecting the dead.. Some will have no problems doing it and thats fine by me.

COE where a funeral is mentioned, it's more about grieving than celebrating a person ?? > https://www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/funerals.aspx

With the diversity of people in this country there are going to be very different views on this I would of thought.

Back in 1960 when I was stationed in Bangkok I was asked to photograph the Commonwealth War Graves at KANCHANABURI and CHUNGKA. A lot of these photographs were published in UK and Australia. I was inundated thereafter with requests from family members to photograph graves of Husbands, Sons and nephews who had perished on the building of the Siamese (Thailand) Burma Railway.
I have another pal who photographs grave stones and churches for people from the States, Australia, New Zealand and Canada who have been researching family History. So is that disrespectful?

 

[andyscott]

Plenty of cameras at Dianas Funeral

 

[dejongj]

Back in 1960 when I was stationed in Bangkok I was asked to photograph the Commonwealth War Graves at KANCHANABURI and CHUNGKA. A lot of these photographs were published in UK and Australia. I was inundated thereafter with requests from family members to photograph graves of Husbands, Sons and nephews who had perished on the building of the Siamese (Thailand) Burma Railway.
I have another pal who photographs grave stones and churches for people from the States, Australia, New Zealand and Canada who have been researching family History. So is that disrespectful?

Not to me. Although I think the point made by some earlier in this thread was focused on the grieving individual. To me the standard Street / candid rules apply where basically the photograph should not be making the person vulnerable or open to abuse or unnecessarily exploitative. A very simple rule for me is whether I would mind being photographed like that.

 

[Swanseajack]

Back in 1960 when I was stationed in Bangkok I was asked to photograph the Commonwealth War Graves at KANCHANABURI and CHUNGKA. A lot of these photographs were published in UK and Australia. I was inundated thereafter with requests from family members to photograph graves of Husbands, Sons and nephews who had perished on the building of the Siamese (Thailand) Burma Railway.
I have another pal who photographs grave stones and churches for people from the States, Australia, New Zealand and Canada who have been researching family History. So is that disrespectful?

Read this part of my original post again, > "To me it's un-respectful IMO and was the way I was raised for respecting the dead.. Some will have no problems doing it and thats fine by me"

 

[Mintchocs]

When my Dad passed away I took some photographs when he was in an open casket in the funeral home. On the day of his funeral a relative used my camera. The priest didn't object to the camera during the mass but I cringed everytime the shutter clunked as my Xsi has a noisy shutter. He kept the shots to a minimum during the ceremony. (Many were blurry but still okay). No one really seemed bothered by the act of there being a photographer but that there maybe due to them knowing that I have an interest in it. My mother has shown the photographs to people who were unable to attend. Maybe it's an age related thing but people found the photos interesting especially as they hadn't seen some people for more than ten years. I know my father would not have objected as he took loads of photos in his younger years. I'm glad I have the photos. I don't look at them that often but I have a choice to do so. My actual memories of the day are vague and distant so I'm glad I have the photos.

 

[julianhj]

I went to a funeral a couple of months ago and was quite surprised by the number of phones coming out for pictures, both in the church and at the grave side. I found it quite odd.

 

[d00d]

Just spotted this thread, and only this morning I was thinking ... should I or shouldn't I even think about taking my camera to my aunts funeral later this week?

I like the idea of getting a few candid shots of family at the graveside with a long lens from outside the graveyard. It would be disrespectful if it was somebody elses family.

[Quoting myself]... I was so glad I chose not to take my camera ... it was just such a lovely service, burial just behind the church where four generations of my family are buried, not a single camera fired. Wake in the local [again, where four generations of my family have pondered the meaning of life] ... again, no cameras.

Being the incorrigible snapper, I would have liked to have caught a few of the coffin being carried out, being lowered into the grave with family gathered around, but I'd have needed to be outside looking in, but I can't be in two places at once.