Canon G10 : would you sell to buy an Olympus Pen?

CaptainPenguin said:
I that case I will be stocking up on DSLR's to see me through to my dotage,however if DSLR's are to really die a death how will the sports & wildlife pro's manage,can you really see one of these Toys with a 600mm f4 on the end in the next 10 years
Click to expand...
I imagine CaptainPenguin as some old giffer staggering around with a bag stuffed with overweight gear bothering everyone about how they 'don't make 'em like they did in my day'. You do know the development of photographic equipment has not met it's nirvana with DSLR's, don't you?

I suspect hi-def video could usurp the use of still cameras in sports and wildlife photography pretty soon anyway. Imagine a compact body, shooting short bursts of raw data, captured to a huge SSD - the pro's will be able to choose 'the defining moment' well after the event.
 
I was really interested both in the Sigma DP1/2 and Olympus PEN when they first where announced. Then the Sigma got released with a shocking price tag and very poor reviews, shortly followed by the very tempting Olympus PEN which I had a close look at in a local shop. I have to say I never would have thought on how bad it looks in the flesh - the body looks cheap and the polished look doesn't help, the plastic (?) black grip is very flimsy and horrible to touch, the buttons all soft/wobbly... Uargh, the horror.

I wouldn't go near it again and a total waste of time/money. If I want light, I'll stick with my Olympus Trip 35 - great little camera.
 
If I want light, I'll stick with my Olympus Trip 35 - great little camera.
Click to expand...

Pffffft, who do you think you are, David Bailey?
 
Exactly. And why has no camera maker cottoned on to the idea that there would be a massive Market for something like the konica s3 in digital form? A fixed lens, full frame, optical viewfindered compact. Come on, who wouldn't want one?
 
CaptainPenguin said:
I that case I will be stocking up on DSLR's to see me through to my dotage,however if DSLR's are to really die a death how will the sports & wildlife pro's manage,can you really see one of these Toys with a 600mm f4 on the end in the next 10 years
Click to expand...

Yes I believe that, but it will probably be a 600mm f/8 that will be half the size and a fraction of the price. I believe that the DSLR will be on the wane as the automatic number one choice for enthusiasts in the next five years. That's only a guess but if you look at the extraordinary rate of digital camera development over the last five years it doesn't seem remotely unlikely to me. And ten years is an enternity in today's timescales.

Of course this will only happen if this new style of camera is actually better, but there is nothing sacred about the reflex viewfinder which is the fundamental thing that is different about these cameras. And as a guess, when electronic viewfinders begin to rival optical systems - and they're not there yet - then we'll start to see a major shift. Once manufacturers see a big commercial opportunity then all sorts of things become possible, and affordable.

I guess what's at the heart of it is when you are reading off the sensor, you have got primary digital data which can be processed and manipulated in new ways, different ways and better ways, uninhibited by crude (but effective) mechanical devices. I see that as a great way forward and maybe you don't but I'd quite like to know what you think it is that will stop this technology from, effectively, taking over from DSLRs eventually.
 
Any full frame digital would have a four figure price tag based on sensor alone due to sensor yield. A fixed lens could have an accessory viewfinder as there's no focal length zoom to match. An APS-C fixed lens compact with an external viewfinder pretty much sums up the Sigma DP-1. I had one for a very short time - wasn't the slow operation that made me sell it, it was the unforgiveable battery drain, which meant that anytime I wanted to use it it was dead. Nice idea, though.

As it stands the 'Pen' will make a killing once the price drops. It deserves to - this is definitely one of the most 'photographer-centric' innovations in recent years. There's a market for compact form factors with interchangeable lenses, for sure.

As it stands, though, I'll pass. For me, I'd like to see a sub-£1000 crop rangefinder instead. Leica and Voigtlander are missing a trick here; the Epson RD-1 was the only horse in its race unless you stumped up double for the M8. Of course, it's a small market which probably isn't worth the R+D. I have to accept that if I want a Leica M, then nothing else will do..
 
danbroad said:
Any full frame digital would have a four figure price tag based on sensor alone due to sensor yield. A fixed lens could have an accessory viewfinder as there's no focal length zoom to match. An APS-C fixed lens compact with an external viewfinder pretty much sums up the Sigma DP-1. I had one for a very short time - wasn't the slow operation that made me sell it, it was the unforgiveable battery drain, which meant that anytime I wanted to use it it was dead. Nice idea, though.

As it stands the 'Pen' will make a killing once the price drops. It deserves to - this is definitely one of the most 'photographer-centric' innovations in recent years. There's a market for compact form factors with interchangeable lenses, for sure.

As it stands, though, I'll pass. For me, I'd like to see a sub-£1000 crop rangefinder instead. Leica and Voigtlander are missing a trick here; the Epson RD-1 was the only horse in its race unless you stumped up double for the M8. Of course, it's a small market which probably isn't worth the R+D. I have to accept that if I want a Leica M, then nothing else will do..
Click to expand...

The main problem with secondary viewfinders is parallax. You can't use a camera like that for even modest close up, let alone macro, and Leica found that 135mm was the effective maximum focal length.
 
danbroad said:
Any full frame digital would have a four figure price tag based on sensor alone due to sensor yield.
Click to expand...
Prices drop. It was not that long ago that Kodak were asking £20,000 for the 1.3 megapixel DCS 100.
 
Off to have a play with one tomorrow, but leaving the credit card at home - i'm too weak willed :LOL:
 
On those comparison figures for sensor sizes, a full frame sensor is 4x the size of the 4/3rds one.

If you want higher quality, you have to go bigger (film, sensor). So on that score alone, the normal compacts should produce hugher quality images withmore resolution at a lower cost.

Are the blind leading the blind?
 
HoppyUK said:
The main problem with secondary viewfinders is parallax. You can't use a camera like that for even modest close up, let alone macro, and Leica found that 135mm was the effective maximum focal length.
Click to expand...


Parallax is an often quoted problem with Optical view finders.
Leica M cameras have parallax corrected view finders, as Did Rolleiflex and even the 5x4 Crown Graphic. I have chosen those three as they all used different systems, However very many past film camera have had correction for parallax including some middle quality range finder ones.

It might only become a problem for extreme close ups, and even then special mounts are easy to make to use on Tripods to make the necessary compensation for any camera. However the lenses most such cameras use are not capable of focussing in extreme close up.
 
Anyone bought a PEN and would like to give us a little review now that they've owned the camera for a short peroid?
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Parallax is an often quoted problem with Optical view finders.
Leica M cameras have parallax corrected view finders, as Did Rolleiflex and even the 5x4 Crown Graphic. I have chosen those three as they all used different systems, However very many past film camera have had correction for parallax including some middle quality range finder ones.

It might only become a problem for extreme close ups, and even then special mounts are easy to make to use on Tripods to make the necessary compensation for any camera. However the lenses most such cameras use are not capable of focussing in extreme close up.
Click to expand...

Nice try Tel, but I don't buy it :D

Apart from parallax, which you can never properly correct for, there is the close focus problem. You cannot focus a really close subject accurately, with very shallow depth of field, with anything but a TTL system.

To be brutal about it, it was Leica's failure to develop an SLR that was anything like as good as Nikon, which killed it. The rangefinder design has a really quite limited window of operation compared to an SLR.

This new Olympus gets around it by playing to the advantages of a separate optical viewfinder for most picture taking, but it has the LCD for parallax-critical stuff. That's not a bad compromise.
 
But they have compromised in other areas...like sensor size for one.

I would be interested to see comparitive shots, taken side by side, between the G10 and the new Pen.....
 
There are some comparisons with a Fuji F100fd and a 450D + kit lens....and the E-P1 performs quite favourably.

I've just sold my 30D and once the lenses sell I'll be getting the E-P1. Apart from the portability which is the main consideration, the sensor appears to be a step up from the 30D as well.

Just finding stock of it is a pain though!

http://www.digicamreview.com/olympus_pen_e-p1_dslr_review.htm
 
Lensflare said:
But they have compromised in other areas...like sensor size for one.
Click to expand...

Sensor size is not necessarlily a compromise, and is certainly not the be all and end all of a camera :shrug:

Every camera is a compromise in some way. 'Full Frame' cameras compromise on sensor size compared to medium format and so on.

Each is made with a specific purpose in mind. The Pen (IMO) is made to be small, but give some of the advantages of an interchangeable lens design.
 
Chillimonster said:
Sensor size is not necessarlily a compromise, and is certainly not the be all and end all of a camera :shrug:

Every camera is a compromise in some way. 'Full Frame' cameras compromise on sensor size compared to medium format and so on.

Each is made with a specific purpose in mind. The Pen (IMO) is made to be small, but give some of the advantages of an interchangeable lens design.
Click to expand...

Sorry to disagree, but I believe sensor size is absolutely fundamental. It defines everything, and everything must change around it.

For that reason, the closest comparison to the E-P1 is other APS-C crop format DSLRs, or indeed it's own sister cameras in the Olympus 4/3rd DSLR range.

It is not a compact, and is in no way comparable to the Canon G10. The body might be vaguely similar in size, but stick a comparable zoom on it and the Olympus instantly becomes DSLR size, and you won't get it in any pocket. It's the size of the sensor which forces that.

It is basically a 4/3rd format DSLR without a reflex optical viewfinder and if you've always lusted after one of those, then go for it. If you have not, then you need to think more carefully. Don't let the Olympus marketing fox you ;)
 
I just want a small camera with image quality on a par with my outgoing 30D. Suits me perfect, I don't need zoom lenses :)
 
hmmm, I've got about £600 worth of John Lewis vouchers and I noticed they have started selling the pen now :)

absolutely love the image quality of my G9 though, except for the noise
 
I went to Jessops earlier to have a look and walked out with one :confused: It's a lovely piece of kit.

Have to sit and read the manual while it charges now :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top