Car Servicing, Main dealers, are they on drugs

[CaveDweller]

There is a difference between the diagnostic equipment you can buy off the Internet and a main dealers diagnostic equipment. The stuff your mechanic can buy is relatively basic. It's more than the ability to code keys.

I think the reason why indy mechanics buy basic stuff is because for each manufacturer every bit of software for the decent equipment is different. I had software for all my previous VAG cars that could allow me to recode the whole car if I wanted and to check everything possible. I've moved from VAG's to BMW now and I've had to get everything again. I can see why they buy basic stuff because getting every bit of software for every manufacturer would be a right PITA. It was just for me to move from VAG to BMW lol.

I'm not saying I have the same diagnostic equipment as the main dealer by the way, but it sure can do exactly the same thing ...far more than what I know to do with it anyway. I've already got my moneys worth out of it as well since I don't have to pay the stealers prices.

Those plug in kits, just as you said are very basic. They let you check the main running of the car and check for codes, but for far more precise stuff you really need the proper jobby and a laptop.

 

[Nod]

Compared to our local (very good) specialist (who is entrusted with dealing with my wife's car), the main dealer is far slicker. Service check in is way more comfortable, courtesy car is a spanking 64 plater (specialist's is a 10 year old hack) (and there are several available). Decent coffee offered on arrival and a chance to look at the latest models available. As for the work, they both do a good job but on top of the service, the main dealer also runs a full bodywork check to keep the corrosion warranty valid and also has access to service bulletins which are bang up to date but take some time to filter down to the specialist. Neither place is cheap but there's only a tenner or so per hour difference in labour costs. The specialist is happy to source and use second hand parts when necessary (some parts for Mrs Nod's car simply aren't available new) but does use genuine parts. Oh, and the dealer's in town not 20 miles away! We did have a job done by a non specialist but had to then take the car (Mrs Nod's) to the specialist who had the correct kit to do a hard reset on the car to match the fresh fitted part to the ECU of the car.

I used to do all my own servicing but open the bonnet of a modern car and you can't see the engine let alone get at the service parts! Maybe if I had a post lift but certainly not on the drive!

 

[sx_turbo]

There is a difference between the diagnostic equipment you can buy off the Internet and a main dealers diagnostic equipment. The stuff your mechanic can buy is relatively basic. It's more than the ability to code keys.

yes and no,

it depends on how much the mechanic is willing to spend,

there is not 1 piece of equipment that will do everything, but if a couple of machines were bought they can cover everything between the 2 machines.

bosch do a cracking piece of equipment that is every bit as good as the main dealer stuff, can recode cars etc, but the downside is it doesn't do jap and Korean cars, also it cost 10k, and yearly updates are upwards of 1.5k.....

adl blueprint do a bit of kit that is everybit as good as the main dealer gear for jap and Korean motors, and is actually used by local kia and Hyundai dealers, again this is not cheap,

when getting cars serviced it is best to go to specialised local mechanics if you don't want to go to a dealer, most of these guys are ex main dealer, and they all have the relevant equipment for your make of car, and they generally know the ins and outs of every model in that range of manufacture.



personally I am not a fan of main dealers, I hate the feeling of snobbery you get from them, and I liken them to politicians, in that you can never quite believe what there saying, essentially every part of a main dealer is a sales man,

the last time I used a main dealer was to get a new key cut for my old ford Mondeo, the service was shockingly poor, when I dropped the car off, I was ignored for 40 mins plenty of people pretending to be busy, and had a salesman try and show me the new model, but I just wanted to drop my car off, picking the car up was even worse, was stood around for an hour, and then when I eventually got seen, the lady serving had a proper s***ty attitude, and all I wanted to do was pay them.

recently I had a warranty issue with paint on my audi, trying to get hold of there warranty personnel was nigh on impossible, in the end I just went to the main dealer, and demanded to be seen, although I was seen very quickly the snobbery that surrounds these places is awful, and the service was far from great.

maybe its just an Essex thing, but I never had this issue when using Toyota main dealers

 

[Gary Coyle]

I used to do all my own servicing but open the bonnet of a modern car and you can't see the engine let alone get at the service parts! Maybe if I had a post lift but certainly not on the drive!

My 91 plate Sierra was a doddle to service/repair on the driveway, anything after that and i cant even see where the bleedin oil filter is without having to half strip the engine bay, of course the cynic in me says they are manufactured this way to make it nigh on impossible to do even the easiest of tasks.

 

[sx_turbo]

My 91 plate Sierra was a doddle to service/repair on the driveway, anything after that and i cant even see where the bleedin oil filter is without having to half strip the engine bay, of course the cynic in me says they are manufactured this way to make it nigh on impossible to do even the easiest of tasks.

not cynical at all, its all about making money, the more that car goes to dealer, the more money they make.

they design the car first, then they worry about servicing it. classic example is Renault magane headlamp bulbs, you have to remove the front end of the car to change the bulb,

 

[Gary Coyle]

not cynical at all, its all about making money, the more that car goes to dealer, the more money they make.

they design the car first, then they worry about servicing it. classic example is Renault magane headlamp bulbs, you have to remove the front end of the car to change the bulb,

Agreed, i might as well drop my pants and let Henry Ford have his way with me now, will save a lot of hassle and money in the future.

 

[Yv]

As some are mentioning doing their own servicing and what have you, I am actually going to spin this round for a minute and mention how many people are not capable of doing the simplest of maintenance tasks either. If as a garage we charged every time someone popped by to have the air in their tyres checked, washer bottle topped up, radio recoded, etc, we could very quickly make a small fortune. All simple stuff, all have instructions in the user manuals, all the kind of thing many of us have done for years. Now in fairness, as I understand it is now part of the driving test but that is a recent thing and it never fails to amaze me how people either can't [in most cases we see] or won't [in some cases] carry out the simplest of tasks to ensure the killing machine they are driving round in every day is as safe as they can make it. Truly, it beggars belief.

As for modern cars being complicated, again, agreed [should I give away the secrets of doing a Megane headlamp bulb without removing the bumper ] but it is also catch 22. We all love all the modern electronics on cars, everyone wants the multitudinous computers that control everything from electric windows to electronic stabilisation programs, the air conditioning, etc and they also want the impact protection zones and all that jazz - somehow that has to all be fitted in under the bonnet [please don't ask about doing the old Mk2 clio V6 spark plugs in the back of the car] making everything that much tighter, that much harder to get at. Remove the engine covers and you can start making out the more obvious stuff but almost everything is still a bugger to get to. I am surprised evolution has not kept up and developed mechanics with smaller hands.

 

[AJQS]

not cynical at all, its all about making money, the more that car goes to dealer, the more money they make.

they design the car first, then they worry about servicing it. classic example is Renault magane headlamp bulbs, you have to remove the front end of the car to change the bulb,

Snap! My 'Ancient' (1997) Mitsubishi FTO having new headlamp bulbs (and new control units) yesterday...
View attachment 25372

Good job I'm doing it myself, the parts bill alone is just shy of £1100.

Also take a look at the engine - the rear 3 spark plugs can't be gotten at without removing the entire inlet manifold and throttle body assembly that you can see behind the plastic cover.

 

[Yves Geza]

Look, the most condescending post of the month, well done, i bet you went to bed with a smile last night.

No offence taken though, we all have our opinions, its just that mine is right.

Condescending? That's a bit mote and beam, isn't it, if you reread your own previous posts!

And of course I went to bed happy last night. I do every night. I live with Yv!

By the way, it's not a matter of opinion. I probably wouldn't argue with you about photographic exposure or processing, but I'm pretty sound when it comes to the theory and practice of motor trade management!

Assuming you read my post, you're obviously still no wiser, but at least now you're better informed!

 

[Gary Coyle]

Assuming you read my post, you're obviously still no wiser, but at least now you're better informed!

WOW, how arrogant are you.

 

[andya700]

How much testing and development do you think pattern parts will recieve to make sure they are suitable for purpose. Very little in comparison to the oem parts. We have companies working alongside us developing their parts as we develop and test the engines. Even without my employee discount, I am fairly sure 5liters of Ford's branded oil is cheaper than 4litres of Castrol.

I never use pattern parts but source OEM from the most competitive outlet.
I would also like to know what the dealerships charge for how ever much oil they put in a customer's car. The same goes for brake/power steering fluid and coolant.
Obviously there are a few people on her with a vested interest in motorists maintaining their relationship with the main dealer.

 

[Yves Geza]

It's called profit old boy! You know, one man's profit is another man's wages! The profit I make from my no-longer-franchised garage business is what I use when I want to go shopping with your business or with Gary Coyle! :banghead:

 

[AndyB1976]

As a DIY'er I've always used OEM parts until recently. I've gone with some 3rd party parts, the car is 12yrs old and I don't do more than 4000miles a year. Instead of spending £220 on OEM ive spent £57 for the required parts (made in Germany).

These parts (with car) might end up lying in a scrap yard whilst still being serviceable and even if I do need to replace them, I can afford to replace them 4 times and be no worse off. The performance might be off but its not a performance car and I can't say I'm anally retentive enough to have noticed the difference.

 

[cosmicma]

iv'e always done my own servicing and repairs over the years simply because it's cheaper but with the way modern cars are bolted together and getting to an age where crawling under cars is no fun any more the bigger jobs like clutch replacement i leave to the indi specialist but i still begrudge dealer prices
a clutch and flywheel replacement at the main dealers was £600 more than my local indi specialist using exactly the same components bought from the dealers the extra £600 is all down to labour costs
some might think having a main dealer service and repair their car is value for money or essential which i would sort of agree with while a car is new and still in warranty but once a car gets a few years under it's wheels main dealer servicing doesn't really count for a lot ( IMHO ) there are plenty of indi specialists which will do the same job for considerably less and just as well

main dealers have their place and without them there would be a lot less cars on the road simply because some parts are not made by 3rd party manufactures
another point is some manufactures are making their engines to such close tolerances only OEM servicing parts can be used without issues but it doesn't stop you fitting them yourself or getting your favourite indi to fit them

i don't drive a brand new car or a car still within it's warranty for that matter but if i did main dealer or approved main dealer servicing would be a must to keep the warranty and good will if nothing else

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I think the "£600 more" is specifically designed to make you pay for a new car instead. Many people now believe that 3 or 5 year old car is past its "Best before" or "use by" date and needs to be scrapped, i.e. traded in at the earliest opportunity. It is in a way bad, but also in a way good [for the economy and questionably the environment].
The dealers just love to point out that your car is not very new and send a few text reminders about new car special offers. It makes you feel like you are doing yourself disservice by driving something not too shiny new.

 

[nilagin]

My 91 plate Sierra was a doddle to service/repair on the driveway, anything after that and i cant even see where the bleedin oil filter is without having to half strip the engine bay, of course the cynic in me says they are manufactured this way to make it nigh on impossible to do even the easiest of tasks.

If you've worked on older cars, working on newer cars isn't really that different, sure you may not recognise some parts at first glance but once you are familiarised with them, they really are easy to work on. I spent 34yrs working as a press toolmaker, totally unrelated to actually working on cars. This past year I've retrained as a prototype mechanic, developing new engines on a dyno. I can quite confidently dismantle an engine and rebuild it and I only had 4 weeks training at that. The only reason I'd be unlikely to tackle some jobs at home would only be down to a lack of correct tools or space to actually do it.

 

[nilagin]

I think the "£600 more" is specifically designed to make you pay for a new car instead. Many people now believe that 3 or 5 year old car is past its "Best before" or "use by" date and needs to be scrapped, i.e. traded in at the earliest opportunity. It is in a way bad, but also in a way good [for the economy and questionably the environment].
The dealers just love to point out that your car is not very new and send a few text reminders about new car special offers. It makes you feel like you are doing yourself disservice by driving something not too shiny new.

I can only assume you've come across some pretty strange dealerships in your time. I've always been treated with respect whether the car has been new or a very old banger worth a couple of hundred quid.

 

[nilagin]

I never use pattern parts but source OEM from the most competitive outlet.
I would also like to know what the dealerships charge for how ever much oil they put in a customer's car. The same goes for brake/power steering fluid and coolant.
Obviously there are a few people on her with a vested interest in motorists maintaining their relationship with the main dealer.

I have no vested interest if people maintain a relationship with main dealers, the only vested interest I have with main dealers is the work they do on my cars. I work for Ford, which I make no secret of, but that's Ford Motor Company that designs, tests and build the cars, not a Ford dealer which are 2 entirely different things even though Ford do own some dealerships.

 

[nilagin]

yes and no,

it depends on how much the mechanic is willing to spend,

there is not 1 piece of equipment that will do everything, but if a couple of machines were bought they can cover everything between the 2 machines.

bosch do a cracking piece of equipment that is every bit as good as the main dealer stuff, can recode cars etc, but the downside is it doesn't do jap and Korean cars, also it cost 10k, and yearly updates are upwards of 1.5k.....

adl blueprint do a bit of kit that is everybit as good as the main dealer gear for jap and Korean motors, and is actually used by local kia and Hyundai dealers, again this is not cheap,

when getting cars serviced it is best to go to specialised local mechanics if you don't want to go to a dealer, most of these guys are ex main dealer, and they all have the relevant equipment for your make of car, and they generally know the ins and outs of every model in that range of manufacture.



personally I am not a fan of main dealers, I hate the feeling of snobbery you get from them, and I liken them to politicians, in that you can never quite believe what there saying, essentially every part of a main dealer is a sales man,

the last time I used a main dealer was to get a new key cut for my old ford Mondeo, the service was shockingly poor, when I dropped the car off, I was ignored for 40 mins plenty of people pretending to be busy, and had a salesman try and show me the new model, but I just wanted to drop my car off, picking the car up was even worse, was stood around for an hour, and then when I eventually got seen, the lady serving had a proper s***ty attitude, and all I wanted to do was pay them.

recently I had a warranty issue with paint on my audi, trying to get hold of there warranty personnel was nigh on impossible, in the end I just went to the main dealer, and demanded to be seen, although I was seen very quickly the snobbery that surrounds these places is awful, and the service was far from great.

maybe its just an Essex thing, but I never had this issue when using Toyota main dealers

I can't vouch for other car manufacturers diagnostic computers, but although the likes of a Bosch unit will read the codes on a Ford car and come up with suggestions as to what a problem is, it won't provide as in depth information as the actual Ford IDS unit provides.
Are once a year updates really enough? I don't think so, once a Ford IDS unit is not in use, it's returned to it's cabinet where it is able to receive software updates for the cars, that's not just new cars but older cars as well. If my car needs a software update to cure a problem, what am I going to do, go to a dealer and have it done straight away or go to an independent a year later because his unit hasn't been updated yet.

 

[nilagin]

As some are mentioning doing their own servicing and what have you, I am actually going to spin this round for a minute and mention how many people are not capable of doing the simplest of maintenance tasks either. If as a garage we charged every time someone popped by to have the air in their tyres checked, washer bottle topped up, radio recoded, etc, we could very quickly make a small fortune. All simple stuff, all have instructions in the user manuals, all the kind of thing many of us have done for years. Now in fairness, as I understand it is now part of the driving test but that is a recent thing and it never fails to amaze me how people either can't [in most cases we see] or won't [in some cases] carry out the simplest of tasks to ensure the killing machine they are driving round in every day is as safe as they can make it. Truly, it beggars belief.

The dealerships I've used have only been too happy to help out people for free, even when it's not been part of a service. I've witnessed people complain that their car's no longer returning the mpg that it was, the tyres pressures have been found to be low, they pump them up for free and send the customer away inviting them to come back if they see no improvement. Yes there may well be some unscrupulous dealers out there, but so far I've managed to avoid them.

 

[Yv]

The dealerships I've used have only been too happy to help out people for free, even when it's not been part of a service. I've witnessed people complain that their car's no longer returning the mpg that it was, the tyres pressures have been found to be low, they pump them up for free and send the customer away inviting them to come back if they see no improvement. Yes there may well be some unscrupulous dealers out there, but so far I've managed to avoid them.

Exactly, we have always been happy to do it for free, even when franchised, certainly wouldn't genuinely consider charging people but I just still, after nearly 30 years find it shocking that there are more than a few people out there totally unaware of issues and dangers that can arise from not doing some of this stuff and have never taken the time to learn. From a business POV, not a problem, they often come back as paying customers, but from a personal POV...

 

[seriousrikk]

I can only assume you've come across some pretty strange dealerships in your time. I've always been treated with respect whether the car has been new or a very old banger worth a couple of hundred quid.

As have I, and by the supposedly snotty BMW dealerships too.
My BMW is 17 years old...

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I can only assume you've come across some pretty strange dealerships in your time. I've always been treated with respect whether the car has been new or a very old banger worth a couple of hundred quid.

I was primarily quoting the inflated repair figure in the other post, but yes, I have come across strange Seat dealerships. A text on Sunday morning urging to book in for something not too important is very special way to keep a good relationship. Perhaps a brochure of new cars through the door isn't just unsolicited spam.

 

[barneyrubble]

not cynical at all, its all about making money, the more that car goes to dealer, the more money they make.

they design the car first, then they worry about servicing it. classic example is Renault magane headlamp bulbs, you have to remove the front end of the car to change the bulb,

I had a megane and changing the bulb was a nightmare but possible as long as you had small flexible hands. It did cost me quite a bit of skin and my kids got taught some new words though

 

[barneyrubble]

My local bmw "stealer" tried it on with me the other day. I phoned up and asked "how much for an oil change" - "£289 sir". "really?", i replied. "On BMWs website they say it should be £179". "Oh well if thats the case then we will honour that price". How kind of you.

When I arrived I realised it was due a nehicle check as well, so I inquired as to the price. "£149 sir". "Really? BMW say it should be £79". "Never seen that before of course we'll do it at that price sir".

 

[wack61]

Sounds about right, if you're not informed they charge you top price.

Having never owned a new car in my 35 years of driving or one under warranty for that matter I can't comment on car franchise dealers but I have had a few new vans over the years.

Some of my experiences,

VW LT35
4 years old cambelt recall, went in fine, came out rattling, checked on computer, timing within tolerance, sent away after being told cam worn out despite it being fine when bought in

Took it to my back street grease monkey who straight away told me the belt was on one tooth out and the computer was altering the timing to get it to run

Stripped it, fixed it, took it back to VW who refused to accept they'd done anything wrong but paid the bill as a gesture of goodwill.

Ford transit, clutch went, rang ford to be told they don't make a clutch for my van because it's been modified so I need a flywheel as well £750

As for fiat £360+ vat for what is basically an oil change some filters and a look see is nuts, especially as the ARE charging for work that doesn't need doing as part of the service, namely the brake fluid change

The garage I did use charged me £234 inc vat which included resetting the tracking, they also swapped 2 wheels over for free

They tested the brake fluid and found 0.5% humidity but had to change it to comply with the service schedule.

My main gripe with fiat was my initial visit to get the service light switched off, how to attract new business, charge £51 for 5 minutes work but tell the customer it takes 1/2 an hour and I know it takes 5 minutes because I watched the garage that did service it do it.

There can't be many businesses where the customer delivers the job then a days work generates £800 plus the profit on the parts or £1000 if the "book" says it takes 10 hours but you do it in 8.

And as for the frankly laughable comments on inferior parts can any of the posters point me to fords oil filter factory, or VWs brake pad factory, or vauxhalls clutch factory.

 

[fracster]

Slightly off topic, but I ran the European/North African transport for a very large,American machinery maker, diggers,generaters,compressers ect, very large ones. The machines were sold at damn near cost, but the warranty had to be with them and thier parts had to be used. It was a while ago, so they could specify that.

Anyway,to the point, we had container loads of oil filters ,for example, turn up from Turkey. They were labelled and put in an branded box. Hey presto, oem part.

Without wanting to fall out with anyone, how can a high end Italian car maker quote me £189 for a thermostat,part only, when it is exactly the same as a Fiat X19?

Sure some garages are w******s, some are bloody good. Bit like photographers really, don`t tar them all with the same brush. My local garage is an absolute gem and I recommend it to anyone I can.

 

[sx_turbo]

Sorry , thought I'd covered that one..."most car manufacturers work in conjunction with other companies to make parts that work specifically for their cars " I don't know who VAG use for their parts BUT I do know when we fit genuine VW brake pads they don't rattle in the calipers , when we fit exhausts they don't rattle or leak gases or blow 3 days after fitting & as for oil , we use Castrol....& we supply it cheaper to our customers than they can get at local motor factors etc but more importantly we supply the correct oil grade for your car........... We make no charge for fitting headlamp bulbs ( & we fit them correctly ) .

You sir appear to be a lost cause , determined to put down & slate everything about main dealers . I wish you well in that

oe manufacturers make very little parts themselves, they design a part and ask a 3rd party firm to make it at a required price point, then they get tested and redesigned as and when they identify design faults.

Sorry,sat & read this thread tonight, a few comments are really pressing my buttons....

Block Exemption......
European Block Exemption rules mean manufacturers can’t invalidate your guarantee for not using a franchised dealer – as long as the garage follows the maker’s service schedule and uses original equipment parts.


VW/AUDI group...
Your vehicle should be serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations. Any damage to or defect in the vehicle caused by poor or insufficient servicing will not be remedied under the vehicle's warranty. Please ensure that you maintain sufficient records to enable our Authorised Network to confirm that the vehicle has been appropriately serviced. In any event, please ensure that the service schedule booklet in your vehicle is stamped by the business carrying out the service work.

I do happen to work for VW ,as per most manufacturers only approved parts should be used....why would anyone use non gen parts ?

When buying a used car the majority of folk still look for a main dealer history so why slate them ? I'm fully aware that not all main dealers are good , historically we've done ourselves no favours but ,thankfully, that has been changing over the last 5-10 years .

Once your vehicle is outside manufacturers warranty period ( & I can only speak for VW here)there's a thing called goodwill, you remain loyal to the network & brand & we will look after you

& please also remember that your service advisor can be your best friend...treat them with respect, be pleasant & polite & they will bend over backwards ( normally) to help you out.
Be abusive, lose your rag & treat them like crap & you'll have a battle on your hands !

I love the analogy of the wedding photographer....spot on...well said !

Feel better for getting that off my chest !

working for a main dealer you should know that as long as the parts fitted are of OE specified quality, then the parts do not have to come out of a dealer box,

IF your statement were the case, then I would be out of a job for starters.

here is an example for you,

I supplied a GATES cambelt kit for a VW Golf 1.9tdi 2005 a few years ago when the car was still in warranty.

after a year of the cambelt being fitted, the car developed a starting issue, being under warranty the customer took it back to vw, and they said the poor starting was because an aftermarket cambelt kit was fitted to the vehicle, they agreed that the mechanic who fitted the kit had done so correctly. understandably I had an angry customer on my case,

This is the funny part,

Gates actually make the cambelt kits for vw, and played a vital role in the design, and when I phoned up gates warranty department, they weren't very happy with what the main dealer was saying, a quick phonecall from gates to the dealer and vw uk, soon had the vw dealer back tracking there initial diagnostics and it turned out the the car actually had a faulty injector.

your point about brand loyalty is valid though.


also I thought I see mentioned earlier about dealers fitting aftermarket parts,

this is also true, I have a number of dealers that I serve, and generally speaking they will order our parts if the vehicle is out of warranty, or they have been caught short from there own warehouses (parts on back order or lost in transit etc)

I have a local Vauxhall dealership that orders EBC redstuff pads from us for the Vauxhall movaro's they service, because they can make a much larger profit, and still be less than half the price of the actual Vauxhall part, and the quality is just as good,

the aftermarket has a bad rep, mainly from main dealers misleading the general public, but also firms like ECP supplying a range of grossly under par products along side oe spec stuff,

all of that being said, you cant deny that when buying a main dealer product, you know you are getting something of high quality, and it will do exactly what it is supposed to do, and you wont be worrying whether it will work or not.

at the end of the day, people are free to use who they wish, and im cool with that.

 

[wack61]

Slightly off topic, but I ran the European/North African transport for a very large,American machinery maker, diggers,generaters,compressers ect, very large ones. The machines were sold at damn near cost, but the warranty had to be with them and thier parts had to be used. It was a while ago, so they could specify that.

Anyway,to the point, we had container loads of oil filters ,for example, turn up from Turkey. They were labelled and put in an branded box. Hey presto, oem part.

Without wanting to fall out with anyone, how can a high end Italian car maker quote me £189 for a thermostat,part only, when it is exactly the same as a Fiat X19?

Sure some garages are w******s, some are bloody good. Bit like photographers really, don`t tar them all with the same brush. My local garage is an absolute gem and I recommend it to anyone I can.

Before the internet there used to be a book that cross matched part numbers, can't remember exact details but it was something like , starter motor for audi £200, same starter motor for a tractor £140, same starter motor for a forklift £85 , ring the forklift dealer

I'm not saying any of them are w******s, just very overpriced for what they do, 30 years ago cars were difficult to get running correctly, plugs,points,carbs to set up , these days servicing is just change the oil and filters, plug the diagnostic in, all OK leave it alone, then go round checking bushes,bearings and brakes.

What else is there to do

Another thing, how can a golf GTi cost the best part of £30,000

 

[LongLensPhotography]

how can a golf GTi cost the best part of £30,000

Interesting indeed. Audi Q5 is £32000 ish and you get 2x more car for just £2000 more. Insane bargain, I should place an order for one in the morning.

 

[nilagin]

[QUOTE="wack61, post: 6586306, ]


Another thing, how can a golf GTi cost the best part of £30,000[/QUOTE]

Because they are made by Germans who also have a remarkable knack of convincing some people they are the best and they should pay over the top for their overrated products.

 

[wack61]

My theory is all these costs are directly related to PCP PCH or whatever else there is now

List price is £32,000 that's £5000 deposit and 35 payments of £700 a month or we can get you into it for £1500 and 35 rentals of £299 a month

Bargain except as a condition of the lease we're going to make you get it serviced at a main dealer who'll charge you £400 a year.

I just had a heating engineer out to fix my boiler, I didn't have to take the house to him, he came here ,supplied the part spent 90 minutes fitting and testing it and charged me £200, no wait £45 , I was in garage mode there for a second

 

[Gary Coyle]

My theory is all these costs are directly related to PCP PCH or whatever else there is now

List price is £32,000 that's £5000 deposit and 35 payments of £700 a month or we can get you into it for £1500 and 35 rentals of £299 a month

Bargain except as a condition of the lease we're going to make you get it serviced at a main dealer who'll charge you £400 a year.

I just had a heating engineer out to fix my boiler, I didn't have to take the house to him, he came here ,supplied the part spent 90 minutes fitting and testing it and charged me £200, no wait £45 , I was in garage mode there for a second

I just dealt with the Water Board to find a lean in my companies yard, cost is £375 ler hour with 4 hours minimun then £175 per hour, they actually sent a sub contractor who found the leak within 10 minutes, that equates to an hourly rate of £9000

 

[sx_turbo]

[QUOTE="wack61, post: 6586306, ]


Another thing, how can a golf GTi cost the best part of £30,000

Because they are made by Germans who also have a remarkable knack of convincing some people they are the best and they should pay over the top for their overrated products.[/QUOTE]

to be fair, compared to brands like ford and Vauxhall yes they are much better built, the extra cost they charge is under the skin, not on the shiny bits you see, the switch gear all lasts a lot longer etc etc, personal opinion of course

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Because they are made by Germans who also have a remarkable knack of convincing some people they are the best and they should pay over the top for their overrated products.

to be fair, compared to brands like ford and Vauxhall yes they are much better built, the extra cost they charge is under the skin, not on the shiny bits you see, the switch gear all lasts a lot longer etc etc, personal opinion of course[/QUOTE]

You can buy same or better spec Octavia or seat Leon for less than the golf. All internals are more or less the same minus styling and little bits to make it all blend. How do you explain that?

 

[nilagin]

to be fair, compared to brands like ford and Vauxhall yes they are much better built, the extra cost they charge is under the skin, not on the shiny bits you see, the switch gear all lasts a lot longer etc etc, personal opinion of course

The entry level Golf is over £4k more expensive than the base level Focus ST. In fact the base level Golf is more expensive than a Focus ST3 which will have more equipment for the price.

At Ford's Dunton Research and Development where I work, I often walk through the fleet workshop where not only are the Ford test vehicles prepared but competitors cars are stripped down completely to see how everything works and how they are put together . I've yet to see anything that makes them better than Vauxhall or Ford. Certainly not £4k's worth anyway.
Prior to my current job with Ford, I was a press toolmaker at Ford making new press tools for the car panels. It was my job to make the press tools work and produce quality panels before the tools were shipped to the press shop they would run in. I specialised in the draw dies that make the first form shape of the panels from a flat sheet of steel. It's a fine art learning how to control the flow of the metal so that it doesn't buckle, split, stretch more than 20% of the material thickness or leave draw lines on the panel, which will show through the paint. I've seen some pretty crap panels on new Mercedes that we'd never allow. When Ford bought Jaguar, they shipped some of their press tools to us for refurbishment. It soon became obvious they had been producing awful panels, so far out of shape old jags must be sprung loaded. They had never heard of thin out where the metal isn't allowed to draw too thin. They just slapped lead on it got someone to hand finish them before paint. Jaguar used to employ over 100 people just on panel refurbishment.

 

[sx_turbo]

to be fair, compared to brands like ford and Vauxhall yes they are much better built, the extra cost they charge is under the skin, not on the shiny bits you see, the switch gear all lasts a lot longer etc etc, personal opinion of course

You can buy same or better spec Octavia or seat Leon for less than the golf. All internals are more or less the same minus styling and little bits to make it all blend. How do you explain that?[/QUOTE]

the "lesser" brands in the vw group although the chassis components are shared, the savings are made else where, in the quality of the trim and switch gear etc etc

some of the extra cost is to do with the badge, but I was comparing german to other brands

@nilagin- maybe the extra 4k is just the premium for the badge, but with something like bmw or vag group (not Mercedes), you know that extra 4k you are spending is money well spent when they have the excellent reputations they have, ford/Vauxhall etc don't exactly have a stellar reputation and going by previous fords I have owned that "much less than stellar" reputation has been pretty obvious to see.

the last ford I owned was a mk2 Mondeo st200, was 8 years old with 100k when I bought it, at first I thought it was great, the driving dynamics was very good and the engine note was superb, but within a few weeks I quickly realised how badly built it was, body panels were of very poor build quality, rust protection was obviously an over site, most of the electrics packed up at various times, the central locking and alarm system had a mind of its own, when it was damp outside the engine electrics went all hay wire, the interior trim would fall apart if just breathed on (maybe a slight exaggeration), window regulators broke when I went over a bump in the road, the interior would ratlle when going over a pebble, quite honestly it was a bloody awful car to own.

compare it to a vw Passat of the same vintage and era mileage etc, virtually everything on the Passat still works, the interior trim still exactly where its supposed to be etc, the rust protection is a lot better,

i'm not a vw or german fanboy either, as personally out of all manufactures I personally think the Japanese make the best allround cars, and are superbly engineered, and I would have bought a Japanese car this time round over the audi, but mrs sx_turbo was included in this buying decision, and what mrs sx wants she gets.

 

[PaulF]

to be fair, compared to brands like ford and Vauxhall yes they are much better built, the extra cost they charge is under the skin, not on the shiny bits you see, the switch gear all lasts a lot longer etc etc, personal opinion of course

You can buy same or better spec Octavia or seat Leon for less than the golf. All internals are more or less the same minus styling and little bits to make it all blend. How do you explain that?[/QUOTE]

Real world comparison, when I had an Audi A4 my line manager had a Skoda Octavia (supposedly the equivalent). There were only a few years difference in age, the Audi was a few years younger, the quality of the equipment and fit inside were beyond compare.
Put your hand on the interior roof of the Skoda and you felt the tin roof above, not so with the Audi. Road noise was a lot more noticeable in the Skoda, the list goes on. Not too difficult to see were the extra cash was spent.

 

[nilagin]

You can buy same or better spec Octavia or seat Leon for less than the golf. All internals are more or less the same minus styling and little bits to make it all blend. How do you explain that?

the "lesser" brands in the vw group although the chassis components are shared, the savings are made else where, in the quality of the trim and switch gear etc etc

some of the extra cost is to do with the badge, but I was comparing german to other brands

@nilagin- maybe the extra 4k is just the premium for the badge, but with something like bmw or vag group (not Mercedes), you know that extra 4k you are spending is money well spent when they have the excellent reputations they have, ford/Vauxhall etc don't exactly have a stellar reputation and going by previous fords I have owned that "much less than stellar" reputation has been pretty obvious to see.

the last ford I owned was a mk2 Mondeo st200, was 8 years old with 100k when I bought it, at first I thought it was great, the driving dynamics was very good and the engine note was superb, but within a few weeks I quickly realised how badly built it was, body panels were of very poor build quality, rust protection was obviously an over site, most of the electrics packed up at various times, the central locking and alarm system had a mind of its own, when it was damp outside the engine electrics went all hay wire, the interior trim would fall apart if just breathed on (maybe a slight exaggeration), window regulators broke when I went over a bump in the road, the interior would ratlle when going over a pebble, quite honestly it was a bloody awful car to own.

compare it to a vw Passat of the same vintage and era mileage etc, virtually everything on the Passat still works, the interior trim still exactly where its supposed to be etc, the rust protection is a lot better,

i'm not a vw or german fanboy either, as personally out of all manufactures I personally think the Japanese make the best allround cars, and are superbly engineered, and I would have bought a Japanese car this time round over the audi, but mrs sx_turbo was included in this buying decision, and what mrs sx wants she gets.[/QUOTE]


I have owned two mk2 Mondeos. The most recent I bought at 4yrs old and 149k miles on the clock. It had full ford service history so I knew everything that had been done to it. It was still on it's original engine, clutch and gearbox and the same can be said 8 years later when I sold it 8yrs and 120k miles later. No rattles, nothing broke, all switch gear worked perfectly. All I replaced in the 8yrs was two front shocks, headlamp bulbs, brake pads and normal servicing including two cam belt changes. I have owned Ford cars for all of my 34 years driving and nothing other than normal consumables have needed replacing apart from a wiper stalk on an old Cortina I had around 30yrs ago.