Copy stand alternative

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Cuchulainn

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Brian
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Hi all, been a good while since I've posted here. Last few years have not been conducive to film togging for various reasons, but hoping to make that up!

I've still got my scanners, but I'm going to try to move to DSLR scanning for speed, even if it's slightly lower quality. I've got a Pixl-latr and light box ready to go but had been looking for a copy stand and saw that it's a recurring theme. I found the kit below on a web trawl at the weekend and have ordered it - it ended up about £45 delivered, but it's coming from Germany, so I likely won't get to show any results before the end of the month:
It's really simple and looks sturdy: the 30mm aluminium extrusion is used in 3d printers and we use a lot of it in the lab for various purposed. As constructed, I'm pretty confident it will be really stable (they use a sensible assortment of the fittings available for this type of rail). I had a quick attempt to spec up the required hardware from UK suppliers, but the faff involved wasn't worth it (you could match the price if you really try, but you'll have extra components left over and will need to spend time cutting longer stock to size and finishing the cuts)

You do need way to mount the camera - I've ordered a cheap acro-swiss holder from Amazon, and I'll use a macro rail to make it easier to get the magnification and focus sorted.
 
Hi Brian, good to see you back with us! :)

That looks to be a reasonable alternative at a cheap price .

I recently made a modification to an enlarger ( formats upto 6x7) by removing the head and adapting the column to accept an Intrepid camera / LF enlarging kit....Like yourself a cheapo arca swiss style attachment was required but it works might fine.

Due to the payload for my personal set up, a specific copystand was going to cost a small fortune.

For DSLRs there are some decent stands available that don't break the bank but are for some folk still expensive...What you have found has to be, one of the cheapest alternatives I reckon.(y)
 
So the shipping was really quick - I got the stand last thursday and was able to test it at the weekend. It's really solid and does the trick perfectly. I tried some MF first, both slide and negative.

Here's the setup with the Fuji XH1:
DSLRScanSetup.jpg


and here's some output from slide film:
FujiScanLowRes.jpg


If anyone is interested, there's the full res scan at:
www.brianpatton.ie/Bits/DSLRScan/FujiScanFullRes.jpg
 
I like the simplicity of that setup - something I've failed at so far in my attempts at this.

Can I ask what are you using for the light box ? It looks thin and evenly lit: a pairing I've failed at so far - using 10" LED tablet displays on 35mm transparencies always ended up with the pixels showing through, especially in the sky.
 
It's a "Xiaostar" LED panel from Amazon:

It seems good - if the output starts to degrade I'll look to get a slightly higher end one. No particular colour casts that couldn't be removed (always happens for me with scanning slides in any case). You're right that is has smooth output, so no pixels to worry about. Some slight flicker that I think is the usb connection for power but didn't leave any artefacts that I could see in the images.

I was really impressed with the speed; 4 rolls in an hour, compared to 45 mins plus per roll with the Epson. Sharpness is good across the frame too.

Couple of (very small) gotchas. I didn't convert the Fuji RAF files to DNG before using Lenstagger to update the camera and lens info in the Exif. When I did, Lightroom really didn't seem to like the mismatch for some reason and didn't open the files. I had them backed up, so converted them to DNG first and then could process them as normal.
 
Brilliant ! Thanks for the extra details too.

I've got a bunch of old family stuff to capture (once I can visit) so am trying to get my method sorted beforehand, and you've helped fill in the bits I was struggling with. Time to go shopping ;)
 
You're welcome!

While I think of it, you'll need a set of hex drivers (allan keys) to hand when putting it together and I spent some time with a square to line everything up as well as I could. The bolts to mount the arca plate mount (which you need to order separately, I got this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B015V130CM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) are a generic length, so depending on the thickness of your mount they may bottom out on the middle part of the aluminium extrusion. Mine were barely too long, and so the mount wobbled a bit. I took a mm or so off with a file and everything was fine. Little tip if you've not filed down the end of a bolt before; put a couple of nuts on before filing. Apart from helping you hold it, when you remove them at the end of the job they'll clean out any filings from the thread.
 
Cuchulainn said:
So the shipping was really quick - I got the stand last thursday and was able to test it at the weekend. It's really solid and does the trick perfectly. I tried some MF first, both slide and negative.

Here's the setup with the Fuji XH1:
DSLRScanSetup.jpg


and here's some output from slide film:
FujiScanLowRes.jpg


If anyone is interested, there's the full res scan at:
www.brianpatton.ie/Bits/DSLRScan/FujiScanFullRes.jpg
Click to expand...
Hi Brian, it looks like a good setup.

The colours in your sample image look... interesting, specially the sea and upper sky areas. It reminds me a bit of some scans I did with my very first Veho scanner, which was one of those 5mp cameras in a box thing.

I'd be very interested to know if the colours look a reasonable match to the slide, to you, and also, what the film was?
 
This is one of the scans I referred to (only found it as an email attachment, having deleted all the scans otherwise)...

Test Veho scan.jpg

Clearly your setup is MUCH better than that, but the colour of the reflections rang a bell!

EDIT, this was a Kodachrome slide, second shot on my very first Kodachrome roll in 1972; according to LaserSoft (the SilverFast people), it is notoriously hard to get good colours, specially blues, when scanning Kodachromes. The Plustek under Silverfast did a bit better eventually.
 
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ChrisR said:
Hi Brian, it looks like a good setup.

The colours in your sample image look... interesting, specially the sea and upper sky areas. It reminds me a bit of some scans I did with my very first Veho scanner, which was one of those 5mp cameras in a box thing.

I'd be very interested to know if the colours look a reasonable match to the slide, to you, and also, what the film was?
Click to expand...
Hi Chris,

thanks! I'm really happy with it. 5 mins to set up and everything is relatively stable (i.e. any vibration is as a unit, not between camera and film) so there are no issues whacking it on the coffee table, unlike a scanner with all its juddering.

You're right about the colours (particularly in the upper corners). It's Velvia 100 and I just looked at that frame against the snow outside. There's definitely some darkening and a slight colour tint. I've seen it before on slide film, so I don't know if it's something I'm doing or if it's potentially a dev related problem (I've had these slides waiting to be scanned for over 4 years, so can't remember where they were done). Getting the balance is tricky - I don't do much photoshop pp, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone better could do local brushes with white balance to tweak it. Certainly, the raw file in Lightroom is nice - good tonality and no banding in the sky. Nice wide histogram too. I've seen a lot of discussion on getting good colour rendition on the light table - the couple of negative frames I converted were great, but I wonder if copying slides on such a cheap lightbox is at the edge of the light sources capabilities. For the amount of slide film I shoot, and considering the effect is relatively weak, I'm happy to live with it!
 
Tried some 35mm with this last night and I'm very happy with it overall. I think I'll be putting my Reflecta 10T on the classifieds later. The quality is comparable and I definitely prefer the workflow (the dust spotting takes longer with this method compared to the scanner, but I'm more easily able to do that).
 
Cuchulainn said:
If anyone is interested, there's the full res scan at:
www.brianpatton.ie/Bits/DSLRScan/FujiScanFullRes.jpg
Click to expand...

Hi Brian, yours seems like a great setup and your sample scan is nicely clean and evenly lit.

Zooming in, however, I notice we are seeing X-trans-specific artefacts appearing in your scans. These are known as 'painterly effect' or 'worms' or 'watercolour effect' and I personally know about them as I used to own a Fuji X-T20 mirrorless, which produced these areas of smudged detail in areas of complex/chaotic texture (rocks, bushes, trees).

Some people don't seem to be bothered by them - some people though start 'seeing' them at some point, and then can't ignore them any further. I personally couldn't live with them, and I sold my Fuji equipment. I would suggest you don't immediately get rid of your Reflecta Dedicated Scanner yet, as it will not be producing these patterns in your scans (in spite of the longer time needed to operate it). If you really want to go ahead with the DSLR scanning route, perhaps a camera with a Bayer, and not an Xtrans, sensor would be a good idea, as Bayer sensors are immune from the painterly effect. Just a thought.
 
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trypdal said:
Hi Brian, yours seems like a great setup and your sample scan is nicely clean and evenly lit.

Zooming in, however, I notice we are seeing X-trans-specific artefacts appearing in your scans. These are known as 'painterly effect' or 'worms' or 'watercolour effect' and I personally know about them as I used to own a Fuji X-T20 mirrorless, which produced these areas of smudged detail in areas of complex/chaotic texture (rocks, bushes, trees).

Some people don't seem to be bothered by them - some people though start 'seeing' them at some point, and then can't ignore them any further. I personally couldn't live with them, and I sold my Fuji equipment. I would suggest you don't immediately get rid of your Reflecta Dedicated Scanner yet, as it will not be producing these patterns in your scans (in spite of the longer time needed to operate it). If you really want to go ahead with the DSLR scanning route, perhaps a camera with a Bayer, and not an Xtrans, sensor would be a good idea, as Bayer sensors are immune from the painterly effect. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Problems with the effect you describe with the X-Trans sensor are largely down to the RAW converter used - most Adobe versions being pretty poor. Iridient X Transformer and Capture 1 converters do not exhibit this problem.
 
trypdal said:
Hi Brian, yours seems like a great setup and your sample scan is nicely clean and evenly lit.

Zooming in, however, I notice we are seeing X-trans-specific artefacts appearing in your scans. These are known as 'painterly effect' or 'worms' or 'watercolour effect' and I personally know about them as I used to own a Fuji X-T20 mirrorless, which produced these areas of smudged detail in areas of complex/chaotic texture (rocks, bushes, trees).

Some people don't seem to be bothered by them - some people though start 'seeing' them at some point, and then can't ignore them any further. I personally couldn't live with them, and I sold my Fuji equipment. I would suggest you don't immediately get rid of your Reflecta Dedicated Scanner yet, as it will not be producing these patterns in your scans (in spite of the longer time needed to operate it). If you really want to go ahead with the DSLR scanning route, perhaps a camera with a Bayer, and not an Xtrans, sensor would be a good idea, as Bayer sensors are immune from the painterly effect. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
dcbrookes said:
Problems with the effect you describe with the X-Trans sensor are largely down to the RAW converter used - most Adobe versions being pretty poor. Iridient X Transformer and Capture 1 converters do not exhibit this problem.
Click to expand...
Hi both,

the XTrans worms thing has been going on for years, and it's not going to be solved here. Please let's keep the discussion to film related matters.
 
dcbrookes said:
Problems with the effect you describe with the X-Trans sensor are largely down to the RAW converter used
Click to expand...

In my case the problem was evident from the in-camera JPEGs, which suggests either the sensor or the Fuji-designed in-camera JPEG processor was producing them. Not interested in RAW files personally, JPEGs were all I cared, and the ones produced by the X-T20 were not fit for (my) purpose.
 
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Negative Supply charges crazy prices for copy stands, this thread has some great information! I'm just trying to understand how you attach the camera to the 2020 rail. I know you said you used a cheap arca but how did you attach it and how do you adjust it? Thanks,
 
Hi
New member so found this thread of interest, if you think Negative Supply copy stands are crazy prices you should look at Kaiser! I am about to embark on a large negative/slide copying project, however I have now jumped ship from PS to Affinity Photo so would welcome any comments from Affinity users who have used the software to convert and edit Raw images
 
Mehal said:
Hi
New member so found this thread of interest, if you think Negative Supply copy stands are crazy prices you should look at Kaiser! I am about to embark on a large negative/slide copying project, however I have now jumped ship from PS to Affinity Photo so would welcome any comments from Affinity users who have used the software to convert and edit Raw images
Click to expand...
I posted this a few days ago. Stand alone software. I do not have experience with it.
 
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