Digital Voice is not ready for the real world:(

[Box Brownie]

Saw this on my news feed

As UK landlines go digital, fears grow for vulnerable people whose home phone is a lifeline

Campaigners say BT’s switch to Digital Voice is too fast and will leave many unable to make calls in an emergency

www.theguardian.com

 

[srichards]

in areas of poor mobile signal it shouldn't be happening without having proper battery. back up that will last a good length of time.

I've had VoIP services over the years and they're just not as reliable as a landline.

 

[JohnMcL7]

It's disappointing to see such a large company incorrectly reporting on this issue, BT have since been forced to change their approach to the PSTN switch off and will offer what they're calling SOTAP (Single Order Transitional Analogue Product) instead:

Openreach Prep Alternative UK Analogue Style Phone Product

Openreach is developing an additional phone line product, which does NOT require a broadband connection to function and will be targetted at vulnerable and edge

www.ispreview.co.uk

Instead of needing a router as their previous solution required this will allow a pure copper connection from the property to the exchange and the VOIP part will be then housed in the exchange.

 

[Box Brownie]

It's disappointing to see such a large company incorrectly reporting on this issue, BT have since been forced to change their approach to the PSTN switch off and will offer what they're calling SOTAP (Single Order Transitional Analogue Product) instead:

Openreach Prep Alternative UK Analogue Style Phone Product

Openreach is developing an additional phone line product, which does NOT require a broadband connection to function and will be targetted at vulnerable and edge

www.ispreview.co.uk

Instead of needing a router as their previous solution required this will allow a pure copper connection from the property to the exchange and the VOIP part will be then housed in the exchange.

The inference of that report is that the new(?) service being discussed is only for specific user/usage cases. If so that does not address the weakness of digital voice that can happen during area/regional/national power outages where both landline and mobile services fail to function

 

[JohnMcL7]

The inference of that report is that the new(?) service being discussed is only for specific user/usage cases. If so that does not address the weakness of digital voice that can happen during area/regional/national power outages where both landline and mobile services fail to function

It's specifically for the vulnerable people the Guardian article are claiming have no option with BT but isn't usable for most people as it doesn't offer an internet connection.

In the scenario you describe with such a widescale power failure then there's certainly no guarantee a PSTN based service could still function either so it's certainly not a VOIP issue. If you're at the point where you rely on communication in such a situation I'd be getting a satelite system as a backup and certainly wouldn't trust a copper system.

 

[Box Brownie]

It's specifically for the vulnerable people the Guardian article are claiming have no option with BT but isn't usable for most people as it doesn't offer an internet connection.

In the scenario you describe with such a widescale power failure then there's certainly no guarantee a PSTN based service could still function either so it's certainly not a VOIP issue. If you're at the point where you rely on communication in such a situation I'd be getting a satelite system as a backup and certainly wouldn't trust a copper system.

I can only think back to the occasional power outages we have had over the years that of course took out internet access but and more importantly in the scenario of the PSTN disappearing with the switch to Digital Voice, the local mobile mast(s) went down. However, we could still pick up the landline phone to report the outage and get updates as to when it would be restored.

We are not out in the sticks living north of Guildford but we have FTTC and our landline does get used as needed.

IIRC the PSTN connection relies on the battery (uninterruptible mains backup) system in the exchange i e. analogue voice (dial tone) works in such a situation.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I can only think back to the occasional power outages we have had over the years that of course took out internet access but and more importantly in the scenario of the PSTN disappearing with the switch to Digital Voice, the local mobile mast(s) went down. However, we could still pick up the landline phone to report the outage and get updates as to when it would be restored.

We are not out in the sticks living north of Guildford but we have FTTC and our landline does get used as needed.

IIRC the PSTN connection relies on the battery (uninterruptible mains backup) system in the exchange i e. analogue voice (dial tone) works in such a situation.

Mobile base stations can also have redundant power and aside from there being no guarantee an exchange can keep running on its own, there's also no guarantee the copper infrastructure remains intact either - last time my relatives were without power, the damage that had taken out the power systems had also damaged the copper infrastructure so their landline was down. Their mobile phones however worked fine as they have done here the last few times there's been wide scale power outages.

As I said, there's scenarios where you can lose a PSTN-based service (just as there's scenarios you can lose your local cabinet, mast etc.) as it's nowhere near as resilient as some believe so if you really need communications, satelite is the only option and an emergency based service like Garmin InReach is cheaper than the BT SOTAP solution.

 

[woof woof]

This is happening to us with Virgin early next year.

Despite objections and worries I expect this will go forward basically because there is no joined up thinking and no one in power gives a flying.

Whilst I'm whinging.... Virgin charge a fortune for the phone but just in case you want to ditch it and save some money it's bundled with something I want to keep. Using our landline phone is much more expensive than using a mobile now.

 

[onomatopoeia]

Buy a UPS if you are concerned about the fact that the traditional phone line is powered from the cabinet but VOIP isn't. You can buy them as big as you want, I've got a 14kWh model that will power a router for months so it could provide digital voice, if not used for anything else. It's called a Tesla Powerwall. Cheaper options are available, some for under £100.

The PSTN needs to be retired, it's well past its useful life and the fact it's exchange / cabinet powered is no reason to keep lumbering on with an outdated technology.

 

[Lunkwill Fouk]

Buy a UPS if you are concerned about the fact that the traditional phone line is powered from the cabinet but VOIP isn't.

That will only help if the other local infrastructure is still powered up. A local power cut will often shut down phone masts, routers and switches and so on, but obviously legacy lines powered from an exchange will remain up.

 

[Box Brownie]

That will only help if the other local infrastructure is still powered up. A local power cut will often shut down phone masts, routers and switches and so on, but obviously legacy lines powered from an exchange will remain up.

And that is exactly the point I was making...............as key benefit of the exchange infrastructure that will be lost/redundant with the switch to digital voice in its currently planned roll-out!

 

[Musicman]

FTA "Campaigners say BT’s switch to Digital Voice is too fast"

The 2025 date for PSTN and ISDN services to be retired was announced by Openreach in September 2015. If a decade is not enough, how much more notice do you need?

 

[JohnMcL7]

FTA "Campaigners say BT’s switch to Digital Voice is too fast"

The 2025 date for PSTN and ISDN services to be retired was announced by Openreach in September 2015. If a decade is not enough, how much more notice do you need?

It's interesting reading discussions on this as it seems frequently perceived as a poorly thought out choice by BT when the reality is they have no choice, PSTN is an obsolete unsupported technology they have to move on from with some countries having already done so.

 

[Bristolian]

I live on a small estate with mostly aged and inform residents. Each house has a special land-line phone that has a button which we have to press each morning to signify that we're still alive. Most of us are either Virgin or Sky customers and were informed that the PSTN lines were going to be switched off soon and to contact our monitoring service for advice on how to keep the service going.

When I called they informed me that it was (in our case) Virgin's responsibility to make arrangements for some way to enable the daily button press. A call to VM resulted in a technician visit - without any arguments for a change. The tech provided an adaptor that allowed the land-line phone to plug into the back of the router and hey presto! problem solved. For the neighbours that didn't have broadband they provided an older router with the necessary adaptor and we are all good. I'm not sure what happened to the Sky customers but I guess it was something similar.

I am concerned about how we deal with the situation when we have a power cut and the local mobile tower goes off-line too but I guess we will just have to deal with that when the time comes.

 

[Box Brownie]

I live on a small estate with mostly aged and inform residents. Each house has a special land-line phone that has a button which we have to press each morning to signify that we're still alive. Most of us are either Virgin or Sky customers and were informed that the PSTN lines were going to be switched off soon and to contact our monitoring service for advice on how to keep the service going.

When I called they informed me that it was (in our case) Virgin's responsibility to make arrangements for some way to enable the daily button press. A call to VM resulted in a technician visit - without any arguments for a change. The tech provided an adaptor that allowed the land-line phone to plug into the back of the router and hey presto! problem solved. For the neighbours that didn't have broadband they provided an older router with the necessary adaptor and we are all good. I'm not sure what happened to the Sky customers but I guess it was something similar.

I am concerned about how we deal with the situation when we have a power cut and the local mobile tower goes off-line too but I guess we will just have to deal with that when the time comes.

This latter aspect is the whole reason for my posting about such a situation.

The headlong rush to "digital voice" has not addressed this IMO primary aspect...................I am not necessarily talking about the next apocalypse but the impact of a major larger (local, area, regional?) scale power outage, where at the moment with the Analogue Voice infrastructure the landlines will still have a dial tone and function as method of communication.

No matter how many candles, torches or wind up radios you have the loss of the only means of calling for help will likely end in losses of life. NB I think one or two posters above said that some(?) mobile phone masts have independent uninterruptible power supplies so those with, the case above an at home integrated digital voice landline adaptor that has a mobile phone connection fallback function would be covered in some areas but but what about those who system does not have a mobile (battery powered?) fallback.

Nothing I have seen mentioned or read of even seems to cover the "what if" of power cuts Yes, if as @JohnMcL7 says the PSTN system is well past its sell by date.....where is the trumpeting of the full picture of "what if" after what he says in reply to @Musicman comment that the situation is nearly 10 years in the making!

 

[Tringa]

Just seen this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67750235

It does appear if the possible conflict between phones over the internet and telecare devices was not considered before the decision was made. At least now this is going to be looked at.

There is also the issue of people who cannot cope with a smartphone(even the simplest) and what they would do if there was a power outage which would take out a digital phone and leave them isolated. Given that there are still places where electricity to individual houses is supplied by overhead wires and extreme weather is quite common I can imagine power outages might become more common.

Dave

 

[Box Brownie]

I noticed this mentioned on the PlusNet page about them going Broadband Only i.e. Landlines service to cease....

"The technology that powers landline telephones in the UK will be phased out by Openreach from 2023 and will be completely switched off in 2025. With the increased use of mobile phone devices and internet video calling, traditional phone line usage is in decline.

At the same time, Openreach are investing in new broadband systems and connections using the latest fibre optic technology, which doesn’t need an old copper-wire landline network.

Changes to phone line and broadband technology will affect all broadband providers, not just Plusnet.

With Full Fibre, you don’t need a phone line to set up your connection, so your broadband’s ready for the future. And you won’t need to pay for a landline phone service you don’t use."

Not that transparent in regard to the date when Openreach will turn landlines "off" and hence still no fullsome answer about the future of currently landline dependant services??? Will the providers of those services be 100% ready in time and what about the (typically elderly & others of any age?) that do not have broadband or mobile phones ~ no idea how many that fall into that category but are they due to be plunged into the dark ages!

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

it's nowhere near as resilient as some believe

It's simple, tough technology that's well understood.

I don't know if all exchanges still have their generators to power the system in an emergency but they worked well for most of a century, When fibre suffers a physical failure it's more difficult to trace and repair the fault. When copper goes it's much simpler and quicker.

...satelite is the only option

In which case it wouldn't be an option, would it?

...it seems frequently perceived as a poorly thought out choice by BT

For those who have worked at BT, that would seem to be a not unreasonable initial assumption.

PSTN is an obsolete unsupported technology they have to move on from with some countries having already done so.

Nothing is obsolete while it still works better than the alternatives.