Do you know any murderers?

cdiver2 said:
I got to Meet quiet a lot in the NI prison service. I don't know what they were like before they killed but in the prison they came across as what they where killers, at least until they had a visit then they became nice guys.
One that I particularly remember had sprayed a workers bus with a machine gun. When he was brought into the prison he walked like a big hard man A short time later we found him one night hanging from the cell window bars by his bed sheet with a pathetic excuse for a knot.
We got him down and showed him how to tie a hangman's noose, I looked in a short time later to see if he had done it and found him sat on his bed crying.

I find this disgusting, you have a duty of care to the prisoners, no matter what they have done, and some may be scum, but showing someone how to tie a hangmans noose I find totally despicable, for all you know they had a mental health issue and needed help, bit not the type you had shown.
 
To answer the original question, one that I know of, but I don't know the history of everyone I work, train or socialise with. I may know boatloads.
 
Davec223 said:
I find this disgusting, you have a duty of care to the prisoners, no matter what they have done, and some may be scum, but showing someone how to tie a hangmans noose I find totally despicable, for all you know they had a mental health issue and needed help, bit not the type you had shown.

I totally agree. This sort of behaviour is cowardly and totally unacceptable however you attempt to justify it.

You ought to be ashamed, not posting about it on a photographic forum.

Andy
 
I got to Meet quiet a lot in the NI prison service. I don't know what they were like before they killed but in the prison they came across as what they where killers, at least until they had a visit then they became nice guys.
One that I particularly remember had sprayed a workers bus with a machine gun. When he was brought into the prison he walked like a big hard man A short time later we found him one night hanging from the cell window bars by his bed sheet with a pathetic excuse for a knot.
We got him down and showed him how to tie a hangman's noose, I looked in a short time later to see if he had done it and found him sat on his bed crying.

I was a Prison Officer for 17 years and prior to my redundancy I managed a unit of 400 prisoners and 35 staff. If I had ever heard about or seen one of my staff dealing with a prisoner in this way, he would have had the rule book thrown at him. It's an awful thing to do.

I'm not a soft touch when it comes to prisoners at all. And I think that we often had a difficult job which went largely unignored by the public as behind the walls no one really knows what is going on. But to say anything like your last sentence leads to people having the belief that that is how we are and that is how we treat all prisoners.

It is difficult to switch off when you leave the prison environment and there are so many policies that are around in HMPS that we can not always agree with them. But as a Public Servant, upholding the good name of the Prison Service, these things should remain in one's head, not be banded about on an open forum.

I'd like to think that reading your post back, you may think it was an unacceptable thing to post, but I fear that is probably not the case.
 
I was a Prison Officer for 17 years and prior to my redundancy I managed a unit of 400 prisoners and 35 staff. If I had ever heard about or seen one of my staff dealing with a prisoner in this way, he would have had the rule book thrown at him. It's an awful thing to do.

I'm not a soft touch when it comes to prisoners at all. And I think that we often had a difficult job which went largely unignored by the public as behind the walls no one really knows what is going on. But to say anything like your last sentence leads to people having the belief that that is how we are and that is how we treat all prisoners.

It is difficult to switch off when you leave the prison environment and there are so many policies that are around in HMPS that we can not always agree with them. But as a Public Servant, upholding the good name of the Prison Service, these things should remain in one's head, not be banded about on an open forum.

I'd like to think that reading your post back, you may think it was an unacceptable thing to post, but
I fear that is probably not the case
.

You are correct. A lot worse went on in the NI prisons from both sides.
But I will say any inmate that did not cause trouble was treated more than fairly in fact they had concessions that the prison rules say no to.
You had best know that all political (and I use that lightly) prisoners spent every day scheming/making your day as unpleasant as possible physically and psychologically.
Some words we were told at the end of our three week training from a CO.
"We have taught you how a prison should be run in normal times but these are not normal times, they are exceptional times. When you get to your posting you will find it is nothing like what we have taught you, hopefully one day things will return to normal, good luck".
Protect them! we were told if inmates get into a fight then step back and when it is over take down the last one standing.
I did/do not look at it as my job to protect them, my job was to make sure they were where they were supposed to be at the right time.
Perhaps when you have seen a large number of friends and innocent civilians killed and maimed as I did in the army & prison service you may be as cynical as me,
I make no bones about it as far as I am concerned these terrorist are nothing more than rabid animals
 
I can not walk a mile in your shoes and I can not see what you have seen.

I guess my point is that I personally found your comment on an open forum unacceptable.

We can not change what goes on in peoples heads, a prison officers thoughts about prisoners, terrorists etc, but we are all responsible for what we say and how we may affect other people's judgements about ourselves.
 
I can not walk a mile in your shoes and I can not see what you have seen.

I guess my point is that I personally found your comment on an open forum unacceptable
.

We can not change what goes on in peoples heads, a prison officers thoughts about prisoners, terrorists etc, but we are all responsible for what we say and how we may affect other people's judgements about ourselves.

I can accept that is how you feel to each is own. But if it has not been taken down by a mod or the board owner I assume I am within the TOS.
As I said I am cynical and very black and white I think if all dirty laundry was aired in public there would be less going on behind closed doors and the bleeding hearts would not bleed as much. I am thinking now of prisoners rights, things like visits by lawyers,clergy and teachers that did not have to go through searches before visiting prisoners unsupervised. There were more weapons smuggled in that way than you can shake a stick at.
 
my job was to make sure they were where they were supposed to be at the right time.

A short time later we found him one night hanging from the cell window bars by his bed sheet with a pathetic excuse for a knot.
We got him down and showed him how to tie a hangman's noose, I looked in a short time later to see if he had done it

Alive or dead?
 
Used to sit next to a guy at school, but of a martial arts nut.

He chopped up some guy his girlfriend said had raped her. Turns out it wasn't the case. He did quite a bit of time if I remember correctly but he's out now.
 
You are correct. A lot worse went on in the NI prisons from both sides.
But I will say any inmate that did not cause trouble was treated more than fairly in fact they had concessions that the prison rules say no to.
You had best know that all political (and I use that lightly) prisoners spent every day scheming/making your day as unpleasant as possible physically and psychologically.
Some words we were told at the end of our three week training from a CO.
"We have taught you how a prison should be run in normal times but these are not normal times, they are exceptional times. When you get to your posting you will find it is nothing like what we have taught you, hopefully one day things will return to normal, good luck".
Protect them! we were told if inmates get into a fight then step back and when it is over take down the last one standing.
I did/do not look at it as my job to protect them, my job was to make sure they were where they were supposed to be at the right time.
Perhaps when you have seen a large number of friends and innocent civilians killed and maimed as I did in the army & prison service you may be as cynical as me,
I make no bones about it as far as I am concerned these terrorist are nothing more than rabid animals

Sounds like a girlie version of Guantanamo bay :shrug:
 
You are correct. A lot worse went on in the NI prisons from both sides.
But I will say any inmate that did not cause trouble was treated more than fairly in fact they had concessions that the prison rules say no to.
You had best know that all political (and I use that lightly) prisoners spent every day scheming/making your day as unpleasant as possible physically and psychologically.
Some words we were told at the end of our three week training from a CO.
"We have taught you how a prison should be run in normal times but these are not normal times, they are exceptional times. When you get to your posting you will find it is nothing like what we have taught you, hopefully one day things will return to normal, good luck".
Protect them! we were told if inmates get into a fight then step back and when it is over take down the last one standing.
I did/do not look at it as my job to protect them, my job was to make sure they were where they were supposed to be at the right time.
Perhaps when you have seen a large number of friends and innocent civilians killed and maimed as I did in the army & prison service you may be as cynical as me,
I make no bones about it as far as I am concerned these terrorist are nothing more than rabid animals

Controversial yes. But I can understand the viewpoint.
 
Sounds like a girlie version of Guantanamo bay :shrug:

HAHA I dont think the staff at Gitmo or there familys were being intimidated, How many staff at Gitmo lost there lifes for working there?.
At Gitmo the staff ran the place...not the prisoners.
A official report of what was going on at the Maze

Long Kesh earned its reputation as a POW camp: it had watchtowers, floodlights, wire fences and soldiers patrolling the perimeter with guard dogs. For one British Army chaplain it was more than a matter of appearances: 'Long Kesh internment camp was really a prisoner of war camp.'19 A former prison officer explains less emotively that the compound system 'afforded a great deal of autonomy to paramilitary groups in the prison system.'20 Four prison officers were allocated to each compound: one at the sentry box, two patrolled the fence around the compound with another in reserve. They entered the compounds to carry out head counts, collect prisoners in order to escort them for visits and carry out searches but they were often refused entry. Prisoners were able to operate without much interference from prison authorities as the fifty-six successful escapes that took place between 1971 and 1975 clearly show.21 They were able to sustain what Gardiner identified as 'self-contained communities' because they used and developed the political and military structures that existed outside the prison. The Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA hereafter just IRA), the Official Irish Republican (OIRA), the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) had their own compounds as did the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) when it was formed in 1974. The UVF leader Gusty Spence has told how he ran the UVF 'on British army lines with made-up beds, highly polished boots, pressed uniforms etcetera'. He described how:

There was a daily regime. Reveille was at eight o'clock in the morning, followed by showers, breakfast then a parade. Then the day was laid out. Initially we relied happily on military matters, field craft and all those things. There weren't that many fields in the compound, you know, but we practised all those things that made a person a more proficient soldier.22

Life in Long Kesh was shaped by prisoners' organizations rather than prison authorities, which did not even decide where those on special category should be placed. An early study of prison routines and structures revealed how sentenced prisoners were offered to the compounds and 'which ever accepted him got him'.23

There was some occasional contact between the compounds belonging to opposing groups as Billy McKee, IRA prisoners Officer Commanding (OC) in the early 1970s recalls: The loyalists were in the next Cage to us and we got on alright with them. They were always asking for books, James Connolly books, socialism and things like that. I used to give them extra copies of any books I had. They were more hostile with each other than with us, the UVF and the UDA.24

In the spring of 1974, OCs from all the various republican and loyalist compounds presented a joint list of grievances about poor living conditions to the Governor. When nothing changed, food protests began. Meals were dumped over the compound wire. Republican compounds were also being subjected to increasingly punitive British Army searches and beatings. In October, republicans set fire to the prison. 'Right, up she goes' went the order, apparently.25 Eighteen compounds, the interior of the hospital plus some offices were 'wrecked', the kitchen and one of the visiting areas were 'destroyed'.26 Jim Scullion, a sentenced republican prisoner remembers:

It was rough afterwards. The first night the Brits didn't come in, they let us run about. They surrounded the perimeter though. At day-break the next they came in. They beat us into the ground. We fought for a good while but they drove us back with the gas onto the football field, which was the only place we could get fresh air. The UVF and the UDA set up field hospitals for us in their Cages. They actually abandoned some of their Cages.27

The field hospitals had been created with supplies that loyalists had taken from the prison hospital as the fire got underway. They vacated three of their five compounds grouped together in two, 'Cages'
 
Alive and he never attemted it again in my time there

You were obviously in the wrong job.

Sounds like you'd have been more suited to a career in some testing laboratory somewhere, perhaps squirting perfume or cosmetics into a rabbit's eyes....maybe forcing beagles to smoke 20 a day.

Yes, that sounds much more like your cup of tea.
 
I can accept that is how you feel to each is own. But if it has not been taken down by a mod or the board owner I assume I am within the TOS.

Just because it falls within the rules and hasn't been removed, that doesn't mean that others will not find it unacceptable.

Anyway, we will agree to differ ;)
 
You were obviously in the wrong job.

Sounds like you'd have been more suited to a career in some testing laboratory somewhere, perhaps squirting perfume or cosmetics into a rabbit's eyes....maybe forcing beagles to smoke 20 a day.

Yes, that sounds much more like your cup of tea.


I wonder if you'd stand by that comment if you had experienced or seen what he had?
 
Sounds like you'd have been more suited to a career in some testing laboratory somewhere, perhaps squirting perfume or cosmetics into a rabbit's eyes....maybe forcing beagles to smoke 20 a day.

Yes, that sounds much more like your cup of tea.

I think you need to get a grip... I have no idea who cdiver is
but dealing with the likes of Ian Huntley and the same type everyday cannot be easy

perhaps you would feel happier if they give these vile creatures a belly rub and tanning session every day
 
I wonder if you'd stand by that comment if you had experienced or seen what he had?

I'm prepared to yes, I believe I would.

I'm not a bleeding-heart liberalist by any means, but bragging about such abuse of authority (and bragging is exactly what he was doing in reference to teaching someone to tie a proper noose) is more than a little sick. He obviously went into the prison service knowing he's be able to indulge his little bully-boy fantasies unhindered.
 
I think you need to get a grip... I have no idea who cdiver is
but dealing with the likes of Ian Huntley and the same type everyday cannot be easy

perhaps you would feel happier if they give these vile creatures a belly rub and tanning session every day

Don't be ridiculous. My views on how criminals ought to be treated (IMO) are documented in another thread on here. But blatantly encouraging someone to off themselves...whoever they might be...is an abuse of authority.
 
I'm prepared to yes, I believe I would.

I'm not a bleeding-heart liberalist by any means, but bragging about such abuse of authority (and bragging is exactly what he was doing in reference to teaching someone to tie a proper noose) is more than a little sick. He obviously went into the prison service knowing he's be able to indulge his little bully-boy fantasies unhindered.

I doubt that very much, fellow work mates etc murdered by the very people your watching over, i dont believe anyone could truthfully say that unless they've experienced what prison officers in N.I had to go through every day.
 
I doubt that very much, fellow work mates etc murdered by the very people your watching over, i dont believe anyone could truthfully say that unless they've experienced what prison officers in N.I had to go through every day.

Well, you're as entitled to your opinions as anyone else....Just as I am entitled to stand by mine.
 
Don't be ridiculous. My views on how criminals ought to be treated (IMO) are documented in another thread on here. But blatantly encouraging someone to off themselves...whoever they might be...is an abuse of authority.

Your the one being ridiculous with all this smoking dogs rubbish this thread started 'do you know a murderer '
and like all other such threads the Bleeding hearts brigade have come into it and ruined the whole thread

the scumbags who commit murder get all they deserve once they have crossed the line
and I am sure if it was one of your close family members who was the victim I think the high horse would not be so high with the Holier than though attitude

I would also suggest you join the prison service and when you have been threatened and spat upon endlessly you might not be so soft towards them
and I must add I have no affilaliation with the prison service what so ever

I just wish that when a sentence is passed for 10 years - they actually serve 10yrs not half
prison needs to be much tougher instead of the holiday camp mode we now find ourselves in with Plasma TV's and snooker tables.. not to mention the best medical care along with most prisoners are coming out with some kind of university degree or other certificate along with 3 course meals at every session
 
Your the one being ridiculous with all this smoking dogs rubbish this thread started 'do you know a murderer '
and like all other such threads the Bleeding hearts brigade have come into it and ruined the whole thread

the scumbags who commit murder get all they deserve once they have crossed the line
and I am sure if it was one of your close family members who was the victim I think the high horse would not be so high with the Holier than though attitude
I would also suggest you join the prison service and when you have been threatened and spat upon endlessly you might not be so soft towards them
and I must add I have no affilaliation with the prison service what so ever

I just wish that when a sentence is passed for 10 years - they actually serve 10yrs not half
prison needs to be much tougher instead of the holiday camp mode we now find ourselves in with Plasma TV's and snooker tables.. not to mention the best medical care along with most prisoners are coming out with some kind of university degree or other certificate along with 3 course meals at every session

Once again might I suggest you do a little research before mouthing off. My sister was murdered at the age of 10, and this is mentioned in the "Death Penalty" thread. It is not mentioned in this thread as did not know her killer.

I am not a bleeding-heart. I believe, as you do, that a 10 year sentence should mean just that; that life should mean LIFE. I also believe that inmates should be literally locked up for this time....not watching TV or gaining OU degrees, playing pool etc.

But I still believe that surely upon entering the prison service you must realise the type of low lifes you will encounter on a daily basis, and if you're not prepared to carry out your duties in a professional manner then clearly you are in the wrong job!
 
But I still believe that surely upon entering the prison service you must realise the type of low lifes you will encounter on a daily basis, and if you're not prepared to carry out your duties in a professional manner then clearly you are in the wrong job!

But you are a member of the bleeding heart brigade... you are here chastising a former (or current) prison officer - yet not a single word for the prisoner
just berating him with all the smoking dog rubbish
which has nothing to do with this thread or the prison officer you are attacking

personally I don't gave two hoots what they say to the scum-bags who commit murder and rape children etc

I do hope there life is miserable and unhappy

so I am not going to sit here and slag off people who are doing a hard enough job as it is with out people on a public forum doing it

I wish you would ventyour anger towards the people who commit the crime's
not the people who have to deal with the aftermath
 
Chris you obviously only read the bits you want to and ignore the rest.....as do most people with such bigoted views.

Enjoy your day.
 
In answer to the original post - not that I am aware of.

The closest to knowing a murderer I have got is knowing the younger brother of David Copeland (London nail bomber). We went to the same school and fratenised at parties etc - but I would not say we were friends and I have never spoken to him about his brother.

Those people I know who were in David Copelands year at school and knew him have said that he was always odd and a very angry personality. It wasn't a case of "he was so normal" in this case.
 
I got to Meet quiet a lot in the NI prison service. I don't know what they were like before they killed but in the prison they came across as what they where killers, at least until they had a visit then they became nice guys.
One that I particularly remember had sprayed a workers bus with a machine gun. When he was brought into the prison he walked like a big hard man A short time later we found him one night hanging from the cell window bars by his bed sheet with a pathetic excuse for a knot.
We got him down and showed him how to tie a hangman's noose, I looked in a short time later to see if he had done it and found him sat on his bed crying.

You actually disgust me with that paragraph.
 
ding76uk said:
This thread only serves to show that the prison service, police, etc. need proper mental testing of people before they take post. Also that wages etc. should be fair. Otherwise the only people applying for jobs will be bullying revenge fantasists who should not be let near a prison.

(y)

The best way to deal with murdering scum
is to treat them with care and respect and make sure the little darlings get everything their hearts desire. That way they won't reoffend*.


*Just in case my it isn't 100% clear, I'm being sarcastic.
 
You were obviously in the wrong job.

Sounds like you'd have been more suited to a career in some testing laboratory somewhere, perhaps squirting perfume or cosmetics into a rabbit's eyes....maybe forcing beagles to smoke 20 a day.

Yes, that sounds much more like your cup of tea.

Sounds like you would be more suited to join the animals I was guarding after all it is do it there way and no other way. I think they would welcome you with open arms
 
trencheel303 said:
You actually disgust me with that paragraph.

I agree, it's not right as he should have been shown the correct way to tie the knot during his induction to prison...
 
Splog said:
I agree, it's not right as he should have been shown the correct way to tie the knot during his induction to prison...

You're an idiot.
 
This thread only serves to show that the prison service, police, etc. need proper mental testing of people before they take post. Also that wages etc. should be fair. Otherwise the only people applying for jobs will be bullying revenge fantasists who should not be let near a prison.

Lets get one thing straight it was never about money, I earned a decent wage/ had a fairly good standard of living.
If you love this scum so much take one of the young ones home,bring him up with your wife and kids and set him on the right path...I don't think so.
Its a great life when you dont have to do the job...just tell others how to do it, drawn of course from your vast knowledge and experience
 
What amazes me is if the government want to build a new prison all the bleeding hearts are up in arms if it is in there neighborhood. Bury your heads in the sand Let someone else deal with the mess as long as it doe's not intrude in to your world.
 
cdiver2 said:
What amazes me is if the government want to build a new prison all the bleeding hearts are up in arms if it is in there neighborhood. Bury your heads in the sand Let someone else deal with the mess as long as it doe's not intrude in to your world.

Is it too late to resume transporting miscreants to Australia?
 
malo50 said:
You're an idiot.

I see you have lost the argument..... and the plot! :)
 
Splog said:
I see you have lost the argument..... and the plot! :)

My point is still valid. Assisted suicide is illegal. Adopt your macho posture if you want.
 
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