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First attempt kids
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Comments just on the new one.. the focus is on the hands, not the eye, but it's not far off. You don't need to shoot everything at f1.8 just 'cos you can.
The fact there is no light from the right is not a problem, it give the image depth and direction. The light on his face is actually very nice.
The background is a problem though. You're finding out that to create (rather than take) a portrait you need to take control of your environment - as well as taking the camera out of auto you need to move yourself, move your subject and control the light. A diffuser from the middle of a 5-in-1 reflector is useful for creating open shade when you have no other choice but then unless you are close and have a diffuser you can use one handed* you'll need an assistant or a reflector holder + stand (and sandbags, tentpegs, bungee cords, etc). And all that stuff needs to be instinctive so you can concentrate on interacting with your subject.
I recommend practising on a teddy.
*This is the only one I can think of that actually works well one handed: http://www.lastolite.com/product_list/1066861.85450.1067079.0.0/TriGrip_Difflector
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Hi Irina
Photography breaks down into the following components (in my opinion):
1. telling a story. Done well, this can trump all other aspects
2. lighting. Capturing available light and/or setting up your own lighting (including reflecting natural light) - get this wrong and the best images will look dull and lifeless, get it right and an ordinary scene can become extraordinary
3. composition. Using and breaking well known rules to create an engaging photo that draws the viewer in and through the image
4. timing. Not relevant for some images but people, street, birds and even landscapes can benefit hugely from knowing when to press the shutter (or a dose of good luck)
5. technicals. Getting the right light levels in the image, using aperture and shutter speed effectives to create the image you want. Getting your focus bang on. These won't make a photo in themselves without the above elements, but failure in this can ruin an otherwise good image (camera shake, subject movement, poor choice of DOF, missed focus etc.)
I've sort of listed them in order of importance, but to be honest that depends on the context of the image you're looking to create. It's worth noting that people tend to learn about them in reverse order but that's because the technical aspects can be most easily explained and read about and, frankly, learned.
I think your technicals still need a bit of work in terms of focus and obviously reliance on scene/program modes but nobody can expect to master a new skill instantly. As Phil and others have said, you're going in the right direction - just get out there and take more photos. Simon's suggestion to use a stationary subject like a teddy is a good one.
Photography breaks down into the following components (in my opinion):
1. telling a story. Done well, this can trump all other aspects
2. lighting. Capturing available light and/or setting up your own lighting (including reflecting natural light) - get this wrong and the best images will look dull and lifeless, get it right and an ordinary scene can become extraordinary
3. composition. Using and breaking well known rules to create an engaging photo that draws the viewer in and through the image
4. timing. Not relevant for some images but people, street, birds and even landscapes can benefit hugely from knowing when to press the shutter (or a dose of good luck)
5. technicals. Getting the right light levels in the image, using aperture and shutter speed effectives to create the image you want. Getting your focus bang on. These won't make a photo in themselves without the above elements, but failure in this can ruin an otherwise good image (camera shake, subject movement, poor choice of DOF, missed focus etc.)
I've sort of listed them in order of importance, but to be honest that depends on the context of the image you're looking to create. It's worth noting that people tend to learn about them in reverse order but that's because the technical aspects can be most easily explained and read about and, frankly, learned.
I think your technicals still need a bit of work in terms of focus and obviously reliance on scene/program modes but nobody can expect to master a new skill instantly. As Phil and others have said, you're going in the right direction - just get out there and take more photos. Simon's suggestion to use a stationary subject like a teddy is a good one.
big soft moose
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You definitely need a back up body, even if its something relatively cheap, I mean what are you going to do if your only camera dies on the day of the shoot or worse during it ? Telling the clients "sorry can't do it today" isn't going to fly. Whether you can get by with two lenses will depend very much on which two lenses they are and what sort of work you are doing - as you've discovered here a couple of primes isnt going to cut it if you need to cover more than two focal lengths
To be honest though (and I don't mean this nastily) both your understanding of photography and subsequently your ability are a long way from being in a position to confidently charge people for your services. Therefore you'd be better off going back to your day job , or even picking up some temp work in your field while you build both your knowledge/ability and your equipment over the next couple of years, rather than depleting limited savings trying to start a business that you aren't ready to run.
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Simon has pretty much summarised the crit I was going to give on the new one , in essence its a nice enough shot let down by the fact that the eye isn't fully sharp, the other eye is soft and the background is a bit of a mess.
on the former as said don't use F1.8 just because you can as it gives a very thin depth of field that isn't very forgiving of focusing mistakes - try the same shot on F2.8 with the ISO bumped up to compensate (hell with digital shots are free so why not try the same shot with F2.8, F4. F5.6 and F8 to see what the difference is... that's how you'll learn)
On the latter try hanging a big pale coloured fleece, towel, or sheet behind the baby to give a uniform background
WRT the lack of light from the right this is where a reflector would be handy, but as you don't have one try using a big bit of white card put to the right hand side out of shot (that's our right as we view it , the baby's left)
(oh and lastly rather than editing the first post its easier to give crit if you put the shots at the end of the thread, so we don't have to flick back to a different page to look at them)
on the former as said don't use F1.8 just because you can as it gives a very thin depth of field that isn't very forgiving of focusing mistakes - try the same shot on F2.8 with the ISO bumped up to compensate (hell with digital shots are free so why not try the same shot with F2.8, F4. F5.6 and F8 to see what the difference is... that's how you'll learn)
On the latter try hanging a big pale coloured fleece, towel, or sheet behind the baby to give a uniform background
WRT the lack of light from the right this is where a reflector would be handy, but as you don't have one try using a big bit of white card put to the right hand side out of shot (that's our right as we view it , the baby's left)
(oh and lastly rather than editing the first post its easier to give crit if you put the shots at the end of the thread, so we don't have to flick back to a different page to look at them)
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Are you using a single focus point (centre) or all focus points? I only ask because of the last image you added (where the focus is on the hands) it shouldn't have been too hard to have focused on at least the face (even if you missed the eye).
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Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it.
In regards to background, i agree that bright spot on the left i should have noticed and adjusted. However, i personally dont like studio photos taken on the even background and i dont want to create studio at home.
I like to keep background 'natural' if that makes sens.
In regards to background, i agree that bright spot on the left i should have noticed and adjusted. However, i personally dont like studio photos taken on the even background and i dont want to create studio at home.
I like to keep background 'natural' if that makes sens.
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All the focus point, but manual not auto focus
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big soft moose
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In that case you need the background to be recognisable which means a much greater DOF (ie a narrower aperture like f4 or f5,6), blurring a background out with bokeh to create subject seperation doesnt work well when the background isnt either one colour or a regular pattern
(also when you get to taking pictures for your portfolio rather than just learning to use your camera you may find this problematic as a lot of potential clients for baby shots do like the even background approach, and if you arent offering it you will be losing customers ... unless of course you can come up with a different approach that blows their socks off,)
big soft moose
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Put it back in AF - as phil said earlier your lens is not really meant to by manually focused and you only need a tiny bit of drift to make the eyes soft.
Having put it back in AF select a point that you want over the babies eye and use that - I guarantee the shots will be a lot sharper than trying to do it manually
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In regards to background, I like myself and wanted to keep it 'natural' I don't like studio photos with even background, but agree I should have noticed the raised bright spot on the left near baby face and adjusted it
Will play with functions and look into getting reflector
Thanks
Will play with functions and look into getting reflector
Thanks
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If it was me (and this is my humble opinion, others have far greater knowledge than I do), i would switch to centre focus point only.
Especially if using af (i know you haven't been).
I think you should let the camera focus for you, particularly when your subjects are moving. If I've read it correctly you are using a 6d which i think only has 1 cross type focus point in the centre (which is the most accurate of them). Focus with this, then recompose.
Watch some YouTube videos about how best to do this (it's too much for me to type on my phone, when I should be working).
Especially if using af (i know you haven't been).
I think you should let the camera focus for you, particularly when your subjects are moving. If I've read it correctly you are using a 6d which i think only has 1 cross type focus point in the centre (which is the most accurate of them). Focus with this, then recompose.
Watch some YouTube videos about how best to do this (it's too much for me to type on my phone, when I should be working).
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big soft moose
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the problem with focus and recompose using the centre point is when the little blighter moves between focusing and taking the shot.
With 11 points the 6D has enough to pick a point for most common compositions, and although only the middle one is cross type Ive not found that to be a big issue (although i mostly use my 6D for weddings, for action photography I prefer my 70D )
With 11 points the 6D has enough to pick a point for most common compositions, and although only the middle one is cross type Ive not found that to be a big issue (although i mostly use my 6D for weddings, for action photography I prefer my 70D )
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You are right of course.
I just didn't want to go into the different types of af settings on the camera. I find it hard to put into words what's in my head (and probably would have made it sound more complicated than it is) which is why I suggest watching some videos.
It's all well and good for someone to practice (you can practice all you like, but if the camera isn't set up the right way, then you are destined to fail), but sometimes knowing how your camera works is a must.
big soft moose
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I must say though that the AF on the 6D was the biggest let down with it for me, Its just about adequate but for the money i expected better - especially given how good the AF is in most other high end Canon cameras... (my game plan is to upgrade to a 5D3 when the launch of the 5D4 pushes the price down , unless a 6D2 with improved AF is out by then)
that said it is still considerably better than trying to MF a lens not designed for it (pretty much the only time i use MF is with my macro lens which has a nice chunky and stable focussing ring)
that said it is still considerably better than trying to MF a lens not designed for it (pretty much the only time i use MF is with my macro lens which has a nice chunky and stable focussing ring)
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Plus.. focus & recompose with a very shallow DoF for close portraits requires a slightly odd technique. You have to be careful to move the camera only in a single plane, i.e. translate it horizontally or vertically, not rotate it about any axis. If the lens isn't pointing at exactly the same angle after recomposing then you're pretty much guaranteed that the point you focused on won't be in focus.
Selecting a single focus point and moving it is more reliable.
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Its a good point about customers preferences!
I had sessions with photographers at home and in the park and i choose the one who captures lively, real moments (with noisy blured background and that does not bother me at all) so i am the customer myself for this kind of photos. However i do apperciate that might be not everyone's cup of tea and i'll be loosingon wider audience
I had sessions with photographers at home and in the park and i choose the one who captures lively, real moments (with noisy blured background and that does not bother me at all) so i am the customer myself for this kind of photos. However i do apperciate that might be not everyone's cup of tea and i'll be loosingon wider audience
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Ignoring the technicals - because they should be 'taken for granted'.
The other 4 actually boil down to just 2; where you stand and when you press the shutter. Which, whilst simplistic is also very complicated, the difference between a wider lens which when used close up appears to distort or a longer lens that flatters, choosing how much 'space' to add and whether that space adds to the story or composition, even camera angle will change the relationship between subject and viewer. Again, colour theory, composition rules, psychology and lots of other non 'technical' but very technical considerations to be considered.
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Thans Phil!
I really should practise on a teddy first. This is one of the odd 50 i took while moving baby around the room and trying different angels and light. Plus i had to be far enough for the lens to work and on the floor most of the time, so i be on the same level. probably real life, but not very relaxed enviroment to practise.
I have gathered s lot of good feedback!
I really should practise on a teddy first. This is one of the odd 50 i took while moving baby around the room and trying different angels and light. Plus i had to be far enough for the lens to work and on the floor most of the time, so i be on the same level. probably real life, but not very relaxed enviroment to practise.
I have gathered s lot of good feedback!
big soft moose
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Lively real moment photography is certainly saleable ... but to be blunt that's not what you have achieved with the image in question - if a background is a bit messy because the photographers aim was to capture the definitive moment in action and use bokeh to seperate the subject from the background then that may be fine with many clients.
On the other hand where a shot is basically posed - as with a baby lying on a surface, then there is a far higher expectation of control over the background - it doesn't necessarily have to be plain (personally iI think that white hi key is becoming a bit of a cliche) but it does need to be thought about.
End of the day the reason a client is paying is because they expect you to deliver something they can't deliver themselves , and a posed shot with a messy background doesn't achieve that - its (not surprisingly for where your at at the moment) about what anyone who went out and bought a DSLR to document their baby but without any serious photographic knowledge or ability would acheive.
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Of course you're right. I guess I was trying to break it down into more manageable chunks... each physical (or non-physical) element of the capture process: decide what you want to include (composition), how it will be seen (lighting) and then the decision on when to shoot (timing). This is all wrapped up in WHY the picture is being taken in the first place (the story). If it isn't for the latter then what's the point of pressing the shutter, apart from getting a miniscule amount of exercise for that finger
As someone who's very much on the learning curve myself, I know I'd have struggled to rationalise "where to stand and when to shoot" - I still find I need to look at my own images in terms of the component parts. But maybe that's just me!
Help from people like you and the other proper experts is what really catapults our learning though, and it is appreciated
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First attempt at baby shoot, to wanting to be a pro is quite a jump OP. Try some research in your area and see how many other photographers are offering their services, see if they are better/worse than you and how much they charge. Then ask yourself if you can meet a good standard and live off what you might earn.
Try looking on FaceBook as well as Google searches, you may be surprised by the numbers - how many there are, as well as how good some of them might be and how little they charge.
Most will not have been shooting in full auto settings a few days ago. You have a lot to learn, and here is a good place for that, listen to the advice you are given and you will improve no end. Whether you will ever make it as a pro and earn enough to feed yourself is the thing you should try to work out now. Chase the dream by all means but if you need a regular income, a steady day job while you learn would be handy. Good luck!
Try looking on FaceBook as well as Google searches, you may be surprised by the numbers - how many there are, as well as how good some of them might be and how little they charge.
Most will not have been shooting in full auto settings a few days ago. You have a lot to learn, and here is a good place for that, listen to the advice you are given and you will improve no end. Whether you will ever make it as a pro and earn enough to feed yourself is the thing you should try to work out now. Chase the dream by all means but if you need a regular income, a steady day job while you learn would be handy. Good luck!
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You were right to break it down for the OP, my rationalisation of it is just to show how radically different the facts of a good picture and what people will discuss are somewhat misaligned.Of course you're right. I guess I was trying to break it down into more manageable chunks... each physical (or non-physical) element of the capture process: decide what you want to include (composition), how it will be seen (lighting) and then the decision on when to shoot (timing). This is all wrapped up in WHY the picture is being taken in the first place (the story). If it isn't for the latter then what's the point of pressing the shutter, apart from getting a miniscule amount of exercise for that finger
As someone who's very much on the learning curve myself, I know I'd have struggled to rationalise "where to stand and when to shoot" - I still find I need to look at my own images in terms of the component parts. But maybe that's just me!
Help from people like you and the other proper experts is what really catapults our learning though, and it is appreciated
As for being an 'expert'? I'm still learning and there's lots I'd like to improve.
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OK, last one for this thread...what do you think of a background on this one? I tried to keep it neutral..
p.s. i used photoshop express to remove some hair that was out of order, so please excuse bit messy first attempt
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Thanks for your comments!
I am not claiming to be a pro after few first photos, i am just learning
There always will be someone better and saying that, there will be a client for the certain type of photos as there is a right customer for every type of goods
The business aspect is very important, so of course i'll be looking into that as well, closer to the time when i need to make decision about the job
sunnyside_up
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Ian's right - Please don't get me wrong, I wish you all the best... but 5 learning years in for me (and that's not a long time by any stretch of the imagination), and it's probably only been the last 2 years where I can say that I arrived at a place where I can stand my ground against some of my local competitors.
Be realistic in your expectations. Please... otherwise you could set yourself up for disappointment. Your friends and family and mom's wearing rose coloured glasses will always love your pictures on social media. You need to separate from that and really look at your images from a completely different point of view.
But I truly wish you all the best. If you have the drive, you'll smash it.
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Ian's right - Please don't get me wrong, I wish you all the best... but 5 learning years in for me (and that's not a long time by any stretch of the imagination), and it's probably only been the last 2 years where I can say that I arrived at a place where I can stand my ground against some of my local competitors.
Be realistic in your expectations. Please... otherwise you could set yourself up for disappointment. Your friends and family and mom's wearing rose coloured glasses will always love your pictures on social media. You need to separate from that and really look at your images from a completely different point of view.
But I truly wish you all the best. If you have the drive, you'll smash it.
Thank you!
I agree that its hard to look at your kids photos with critical eye. Over the next few weeks i'll have the opportunity to practice on adults and someone else children, so looking forward to that
I probably should have not mentioned that i want to do it professionally as it wont happen now or in near future. Saying that i really appreciate all the tips and constructive criticism, so i could learn and improve
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Ian's right - Please don't get me wrong, I wish you all the best... but 5 learning years in for me (and that's not a long time by any stretch of the imagination), and it's probably only been the last 2 years where I can say that I arrived at a place where I can stand my ground against some of my local competitors.
Be realistic in your expectations. Please... otherwise you could set yourself up for disappointment. Your friends and family and mom's wearing rose coloured glasses will always love your pictures on social media. You need to separate from that and really look at your images from a completely different point of view.
But I truly wish you all the best. If you have the drive, you'll smash it.
its off topic, but i just looked at your photos on flickr and OMG, food photos as sooo delicious and kids portraits are so natural and nice light!
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Thank you Irina.
big soft moose
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you said on your other thread that you wanted to do it in 6 months
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Better, and most importantly his eyes are sharp (its not the most pleasing facial expression but thats relatively minor), you could do with cropping a tiny bit from the right hand side so that brighter side wall is excluded and doesnt cause a highlight that draws the eye away from the baby
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Ive done few more shots today and for some reason camera focuses on hands even if i place the focus just above the eyes
Thanks a lot regarding reflector, i've made diy out of foil today and placed it on the right to reflect ligh from the window and what a difference it made! Definetely will be getting smaller and medium size. The only thing i am not sure if i hold it myself, then i will be quite far from the object as with this lens i need to stand at leasr meter and a half away. It did not work with the foil, but might be different story with the proper one.
Here is the example, still bit of the shadow in the middle though, but not half face
Thanks a lot regarding reflector, i've made diy out of foil today and placed it on the right to reflect ligh from the window and what a difference it made! Definetely will be getting smaller and medium size. The only thing i am not sure if i hold it myself, then i will be quite far from the object as with this lens i need to stand at leasr meter and a half away. It did not work with the foil, but might be different story with the proper one.
Here is the example, still bit of the shadow in the middle though, but not half face
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You need to work on reflector placement as the lighting on that last one is worse with the big band of shadow
That aside until you've got a proper reflector you can do much with big (A1 or A0 sheets) of card from hobby craft or other similar craft shops, it doesn't have to be shiny so you can get away with just white, but it may also be worth getting one in silver or gold (gold will give a warmer light than the other two but reflect less)
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It depends on how bright the light I'm reflecting is, but normally when I'm hand holding a reflector I tend to use a 50mm lens. One more reason that the 85 isn't the most versatile of creatures.
I think the Canon software you got with the camera will show you where it actually focused. If it really thinks it focused on the eyes then you may need to calibrate your lens to your body - but note that not all bodies allow auto focus fine tuning, I'm not sure about yours. If it doesn't AND it really is missing then send the lens back.
Most folk here recommend something known as the Dot Tune method for fine tuning; I find it less accurate than other methods.
big soft moose
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with regard to the focusing issue , what focus points do you have selected ? or are you focussing and recomposing (If so how are you locking focus ... a lot of people recomend setting up back button focus to seperate shutter from focus but ive never got on with it myself)
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^^^............good points from BSM
a Nikon user here but just a thought
can you select a focus area OVER the point you want to focus
ie select ONE from a multiple layout
or have you tried having ONE focus area - focus [on the eyes] using say f4 for a small DoF and then lock - then recompose
good luck ..............using my new D300 i placed a dozen batteries on a receeding wall to gain a DOF insight with various lens focal lengths, all set at f1.8, f2.8, f4, f8, etc
a Nikon user here but just a thought
can you select a focus area OVER the point you want to focus
ie select ONE from a multiple layout
or have you tried having ONE focus area - focus [on the eyes] using say f4 for a small DoF and then lock - then recompose
good luck ..............using my new D300 i placed a dozen batteries on a receeding wall to gain a DOF insight with various lens focal lengths, all set at f1.8, f2.8, f4, f8, etc
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As above, the reflector placement is less than brilliant, and I wouldn't have used silver either. You've effectively created a 2nd light source, a white reflector nearer the front position would've left the shot looking natural with a light source from camera left but a less dramatic shadow side. You're lucky to have such an attractive and willing model.
However - I'd still really like to feel some attachment to the subject, this is a snap of baby looking at Dad. Engage me - Pull me in - if you don't involve me it's just a snap. A perfectly lit and composed version of this image is a 2nd rate picture. How did you feel when you looked at @sunnyside_up (Beth's) images - what did the photo's convey? How do you think that breaks down so you can recreate it? It's not the gear or the background or the toys or the pretty kids or the outfits or the PP - Beth is a brilliant portraitist, she's 5 years in and I'm 30, and I'd rather look at her stuff than mine.
Now my eyesight isn't the best, but that shot appears to have focussed on the eyes to me, the hands just happen to be close enough to the plane of focus. You might want to do a focus test just for peace of mind (look up the dot tune method)
Hate to do the technical advice - but I really do recommend getting focus off the shutter button. It winds me up no end. Keeping focussing and firing the shutter as two distinctly separate actions feels really natural to me YMMV. And I happily shoot focus - recompose at 1.8 with that camera and lens. In fact I only ever use the outer focus points in ideal conditions, otherwise they're just irritating IMHO.
But you're taking stuff on board and you will continue to improve. I won't say you can't learn in months - because you can actually - but it takes a lot of commitment and practice.
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