First attempt of photographing my niece in a dark room, where did I go wrong

Jwar1976

Jwar1976

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John
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Well I attempted some pictures of my 1 week old Niece & while the family are happy with the pictures for a rushed job as we were extremely pushed for time, I took about 40 shots in the space of 10 minutes. I am not happy with them as I didn't get in close enough for her to take up the entire shot. This is the only photo that I have uploaded, but is the best one out of a bad bunch that didn't have the flash fired and it was in quite a dark room.

Any tips would be appreciated

IMG_1585 by DJM1976, on Flickr
 
1/25 sec, 5.6, iso 100 - basically you're not allowing enough light in.

If not using any light, either natural or otherwise, you'll need to compensate by altering your settings to capture adequate light. First thing, raise your iso, you've shot at 100, which is the base iso. Raising this will allow more light in, i.e. sensor is more sensitive to light. There will be an upper limit, before you start to introduce unwanted noise, but better to have a noisy image than a blurry or badly underexposed image. I would also be careful with your shutter speed, 1//25 is quite slow and could lead to blurry photos, try to at least match your shutter speed to the length of your lens. Lastly, you've shot at 5.6, if you can you can open up your aperture, e.g. shoot at 2.8. Obviously this will depend on the lens you're using and it's smallest available f stop.

This should be enough to get you going, but have an internet search on the exposure triangle and you'll find plenty of information.
 
?may not be a good idea to use flash with a little baby

I seem to remember someone on here saying that there were various H&S consideration - and real ones not the jobsworth ones - when doing baby pics.

BTW I would have thought that Gramps's version would more than satisfy the proud parents:)
 
"un natural" lighting
shows skin in wrong tone and shows up some surface reflections which seem like either flash..which it is not..or direct lighting

try getting natural lighting which which is softer but vibrant
northlight
 
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On-camera flash... that's what's wrong. That and it's under exposed. This was probably due to the excessive amount of bright white fabric. Whenever the scene is predominantly white, it may be wise to dial in a little + exposure compensation.. probably +0.3 to +0.5 stops. If you were on manual, you can just set the aperture to read slightly over on the meter.

On camera flash is never, ever a great idea, especially close.

See my basics tutorial guide here.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/th...ure-theory-but-were-afraid-to-ask-101.440126/

gramps said:
A little processing may help, especially using the original file (quick edit) ...


View attachment 16378
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Always best to work out WHY exposure is wrong though instead of advocating correction in post don't you think?
 
gramps said:
Of course, but sometimes people just need a little simple help ... and I'm just a simple person.
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Teaching beginners to correct exposure mistakes in post will probably lead to them continuing to do so instead of learning the more difficult, but preferable solution of learning the correct camera skills in the first place.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Teaching beginners to correct exposure mistakes in post will probably lead to them continuing to do so instead of learning the more difficult, but preferable solution of learning the correct camera skills in the first place.
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Fortunately I'm not a teacher, well not of photography anyway ... there are plenty of people like you on the forum to add complexity to the issue,
 
gramps said:
Fortunately I'm not a teacher, well not of photography anyway ... there are plenty of people like you on the forum to add complexity to the issue,
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If you're not a teacher, why are you arguing with one? The easiest way is not necessarily the right way - surely someone of your age (not an insult before you accuse me of that) should know this. I've no idea what you do teach, but whatever it is, I assume you teach them to do things the right way, so why argue with someone doing exactly the same thing?

Fixing it in post will not teach him to get it right so that he doesn't have to fix it in post. Besides... understanding exposure is hardly complex. In fact... it's much easier than having to arse about fixing these mistakes afterwards once you know how. Like most things, photography requires practice.... not a botch up in post.


Sorry to be a pain, but when people come in here to ask for help with their photography, and get advised to just correct fundamental mistakes on the computer, I have to question what purpose this forum actually serves, as it's clearly not teaching photography.
 
I'm no more arguing than you are pontificating.
 
OP can benefit from both approaches, i.e. exposure lesson and also the post processing advice. One of the main purposes of this forum, is to teach photography, which also includes post processing.
 
johnnypanic said:
OP can benefit from both approaches, i.e. exposure lesson and also the post processing advice. One of the main purposes of this forum, is to teach photography, which also includes post processing.
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Agreed. Its great that the OP can be taught the correct way, but I'd also think that they would appreciate the help from Gramps to correct the exposure of this shot as well.
 
Surely becoming profficient in photography involves being able to correct mistakes, ie post processing,
of course idealy we want to keep this to a minimum,but things can go wrong....
 
Trentbirder said:
Surely becoming profficient in photography involves being able to correct mistakes, ie post processing,
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No.. becoming proficient in photography means learning how to NOT make them in the first place!




I'd suggest that correcting exposure mistakes should be made by learning what made them wrong in the first place, then re-shooting the image to practice the skills required, and eventually get it right without needing to "correct" it. What exactly does correcting it in post teach? How to move a slider from left to right? :)

That's not the only issue with the OP's image either. If he ignores this BS and reads up on the subjects of exposure control and the differences in light sources, he'll understand the reasons his images are poor, and he'll learn to be a better photographer. Your way will teach him how to move a slider n Lightroom. Well done.



WTF is happening to photography these days?


There will always be the odd mistake.. yes... but teaching how to correct that will do sod all to make him a better photographer. That crap comes later... much later. This is not a shot he can't re-shoot to practice with. There's no excuse for laziness.
 
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David, I agree with you, that learning to do things in camera is essential but I think you need to climb down from your high horse. The OP asked for any tips that would help him improve and he was given this, both how to get it correct in camera and also how post processing can be useful.

Post processing is a fact of life, as it always was, in the film days. We may have more latitude in the digital age, but it would be incorrect, not to highlight post processing as a tool.
 
johnnypanic said:
David, I agree with you, that learning to do things in camera is essential but I think you need to climb down from your high horse. The OP asked for any tips that would help him improve
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That's exactly what I did: Gave him tips to help him improve. You told him how to improve THAT image. I'm telling him how to IMPROVE. That's not a high horse.. that's common sense and the correct way to teach photography. The guy probably, given the choice, would rather be a better photographer instead of knowing how to botch up his mistakes.

To quote the old proverb... give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day... teach him how to fish etc etc....

If he's got no interest in becoming a better photographer, then fine... I stand corrected, and admit the advice wasn't necessary, but assuming he does want to be a better photographer (a reasonable assumption given where we are) then your advice will do precisely nothing to achieve that goal, so what was the point of it? This is someone struggling with understanding exposure and lighting, the two fundamental aspects of photography that more than anything, determine whether an image is technically good or not. Post processing does nothing to address that. Nothing.

johnnypanic said:
Post processing is a fact of life, as it always was, in the film days. We may have more latitude in the digital age, but it would be incorrect, not to highlight post processing as a tool.
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As a means to embellish, or improve an already solid image, yes. I use it al the time.. extensively... probably a great deal more than you do. Not as a means of avoiding skilfully producing imagery in the first place though. The OP's image is not the result of an unavoidable mistake (which I admit is a valid use for it). It's the result of not knowing some stuff that no amount of post processing will teach him. Fact.

I don't know why I bother though.... The same people I see doing this.... Person posts an image displaying technical problems caused by poor camera skills or lack of knowledge and asks for tips to improve, and they "correct" his image for him and repost it as a means of looking knowledgeable and cool, and say "Just needs a bit of PP". That's not what we should be teaching, sorry... it's just not, and if saying so makes me seem like I'm on a high horse in your opinion.... then I genuinely don't give a damn because you need to know you're teaching the wrong things, and not helping anyone improve as a photographer, and that.. is a fact. This isn't about YOU, or Gramps.. or ME or anyone else; It's about the OP. He needs to learn the basics of photography if he's to improve as a photographer.


Teach the post stuff later..... once he knows what he's doing. You wouldn't teach someone how to repair their car when they crash it... you'd teach them how to drive first, so they don't crash it.

After all that... after you've corrected his exposure for him.... he's still got to understand why it's his lighting that's really letting the image down. You really are muddying the waters, and you just don't realise it. Technical camera and lighting skills first.... PP later. No amount of PP will help with his lighting anyway. Fact.


But hey.. WTF do I know. Carry on.
 
Hopefully the OP has gained some valuable insight, into learning the basics of photography and light, but also has come to learn that post processing is an invaluable skill.

This forum is about helping which, I hope, all have us have done. I'm sure the OP will be thankful to all, who offered help, post processing or otherwise.
 
Pookeyhead said:
That's exactly what I did: Gave him tips to help him improve. You told him how to improve THAT image. I'm telling him how to IMPROVE. That's not a high horse.. that's common sense and the correct way to teach photography. The guy probably, given the choice, would rather be a better photographer instead of knowing how to botch up his mistakes.

To quote the old proverb... give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day... teach him how to fish etc etc....

If he's got no interest in becoming a better photographer, then fine... I stand corrected, and admit the advice wasn't necessary, but assuming he does want to be a better photographer (a reasonable assumption given where we are) then your advice will do precisely nothing to achieve that goal, so what was the point of it? This is someone struggling with understanding exposure and lighting, the two fundamental aspects of photography that more than anything, determine whether an image is technically good or not. Post processing does nothing to address that. Nothing.



As a means to embellish, or improve an already solid image, yes. I use it al the time.. extensively... probably a great deal more than you do. Not as a means of avoiding skilfully producing imagery in the first place though. The OP's image is not the result of an unavoidable mistake (which I admit is a valid use for it). It's the result of not knowing some stuff that no amount of post processing will teach him. Fact.

I don't know why I bother though.... The same people I see doing this.... Person posts an image displaying technical problems caused by poor camera skills or lack of knowledge and asks for tips to improve, and they "correct" his image for him and repost it as a means of looking knowledgeable and cool, and say "Just needs a bit of PP". That's not what we should be teaching, sorry... it's just not, and if saying so makes me seem like I'm on a high horse in your opinion.... then I genuinely don't give a damn because you need to know you're teaching the wrong things, and not helping anyone improve as a photographer, and that.. is a fact. This isn't about YOU, or Gramps.. or ME or anyone else; It's about the OP. He needs to learn the basics of photography if he's to improve as a photographer.


Teach the post stuff later..... once he knows what he's doing. You wouldn't teach someone how to repair their car when they crash it... you'd teach them how to drive first, so they don't crash it.

After all that... after you've corrected his exposure for him.... he's still got to understand why it's his lighting that's really letting the image down. You really are muddying the waters, and you just don't realise it. Technical camera and lighting skills first.... PP later. No amount of PP will help with his lighting anyway. Fact.


But hey.. WTF do I know. Carry on.
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I totally agree....

I am currently teaching my daughter photography and I'm not even letting her lose near a computer or telling her about how to shoot in RAW until she understands the fundamentals about the exposure triangle and how to shoot manual when required, shutter priority when required, how to read a histogram and learn through practice what shutter speeds are required to freeze action in various situations. Only when she has demonstrated she knows and can do all this will I show her how to shoot RAW to process her images.

What I've noticed recently on this forum is a lot of posters asking for help before attempting to help themselves first - a sign of the quick fix society we now live in I guess.
 
kennysarmy said:
I totally agree....

I am currently teaching my daughter photography and I'm not even letting her lose near a computer or telling her about how to shoot in RAW until she understands the fundamentals about the exposure triangle and how to shoot manual when required, shutter priority when required, how to read a histogram and learn through practice what shutter speeds are required to freeze action in various situations. Only when she has demonstrated she knows and can do all this will I show her how to shoot RAW to process her images.

What I've noticed recently on this forum is a lot of posters asking for help before attempting to help themselves first - a sign of the quick fix society we now live in I guess.
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So you're teaching your daughter, but you're not going to let her near a computer, until she's effectively qualified in your eyes :rolleyes: Wish you luck, highlighting errors, on a camera lcd.

That's the thing with a free society, individuals are entitled to go down the path they wish, not the one that some people believe is the best (even if it is :D)

I'd be confident, that the OP, was thankful for the insight into post processing and also for the pointers in which way to proceed regarding their photographic learning experience.
 
johnnypanic said:
So you're teaching your daughter, but you're not going to let her near a computer, until she's effectively qualified in your eyes :rolleyes: Wish you luck, highlighting errors, on a camera lcd.
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You know what I mean :)

Of course I want her to evaluate her photographs on the PC but just not start doing any PP until she can get it as right as she can in camera....
 
Thanks for the replies everyone, it is much appreciated, I will have a good read of the links that were kindly provided, it is much appreciated. I must admit that I was unsure of using the flash as was told by my Dad that flashes shouldn't be used on newborns until they are over 6 months of age, however other relatives there that were using cameras, had their flashes going before hand & I was told by my Sister and her partner that it would be ok to use the flash, as long as it was the on built one & not from my speedlite. When I created the thread I had hoped that there wouldn't be any disputes over each others posts as I do appreciate every reply I get, just a shame that there is going to be conflict from time to time & with digital photography and the use of retouching software, you just know that disputes can & will happen.

However I will take into consideration all posts made, and would love to learn as much as I possibly can in different areas of photography as a hobby, so that I can enjoy it. While practice makes perfect & I have made improvement since I first started taking pictures, I still have a lot to learn & so I am thankful for the great community on these boards. But until I get up to a decent standard, I know that further criticism will be essential along with learning the basics of post processing, to make something better from something bad. :)
 
gramps said:
Fortunately I'm not a teacher, well not of photography anyway ... there are plenty of people like you on the forum to add complexity to the issue,
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go gramps...amateurs and non chasers of photo glory unite!!
:D

:clap:
 
Pookeyhead said:
If you're not a teacher, why are you arguing with one? The easiest way is not necessarily the right way - surely someone of your age (not an insult before you accuse me of that) should know this. I've no idea what you do teach, but whatever it is, I assume you teach them to do things the right way, so why argue with someone doing exactly the same thing?

Fixing it in post will not teach him to get it right so that he doesn't have to fix it in post. Besides... understanding exposure is hardly complex. In fact... it's much easier than having to arse about fixing these mistakes afterwards once you know how. Like most things, photography requires practice.... not a botch up in post.


Sorry to be a pain, but when people come in here to ask for help with their photography, and get advised to just correct fundamental mistakes on the computer, I have to question what purpose this forum actually serves, as it's clearly not teaching photography.
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:geek:
 
mrtoad said:
go gramps...amateurs and non chasers of photo glory unite!!
:D

:clap:
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LOL



:banghead:

Do what you want, but stop teaching your half-assed, shoddy photographic practice to beginners.
 
pompous4.gif
 
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