First couple of paid photoshoots

[cuthbert]

my photography is very much hobby, taking photos of my children is very much my thing. a bit boring, but i treasure those moments.

but through word of mouth, a few people have asked if i'd take a few photographs of their family.

so really, it's a bit of a mix of each. had really positive feedback from couple with young baby, the others... you've seen them before they have!

c+c welcome.

1

2

3

4

5

6

 

[cuthbert]

7

8

9

10

11

12

 

[Y15HAL]

Looks like a good overall set to me.....The colours in #3 do not look very vibrant though....not sure if thats the effect you're going for...

 

[mikergj]

I am completely new to photography, but I am completely loving it. There is a art to getting that natural picture. Number 12 is best for me, its seems that you have captured a natural reaction from the adults because little one is not playing ball. The rest look like the smiles are for the camera. Hope that all makes sense.

 

[cuthbert]

vishal - it was intended - i was kind of going for the de-saturated old film/retro style look.

 

[gman]

Some nice photos but I feel there's been a little too much playing with depth of field in some of them. The last one is a cracker, have you cropped it as it would be nice them all in the frame

 

[Djedave]

I am loving #9

 

[AliB]

Sorry but I'm seeing loads of faults here. Let me go through some of them because they can be improved upon.

One is the depth of field issue 1 and 10 and 11 you have one of the subjects in focus but not the other. Now I'm all for a bit of diff focus but they are not far enough apart to really use it as a technique so it just looks like you missed focus. In no1 the child does not look particularly attractive at that angle and you can see the face dropping on the lower side.

The other major one is backgrounds. No 2 has a housing estate making an appearance and it seems to be listing a bit. Shoot from a slightly higher angle and it disappears. Leaves should also have been removed prior to shooting. Trees and fences coming out of heads is not good either, always check your background.

Lastly, that poor little boy in 6 and 12 looks desparately uncomfortable and on the point of tears.

Hope you take those on board for next time.

 

[Chaz Photos]

i have to see is you need to look at backgrounds, to me you been looking at the subject and forgetting the background, too many blown white highlights.
The colours are not consistent, if shoot in raw [hope so] get it set so they all get the same colour.

 

[SparkUK]

I'd have to agree with Ali's comments about the style of 1 and 3, they do look like you've missed the focus. You've done similar in no's 9 and 11, it's better use of that technique in those but I still don't like the execution of it.

 

[Dman]

They're not bad at all to be fair, my guess is the families will absolutely love them and that's the main thing. I can see what you've attempted with the whole depth of field thing, number one is a lovely picture when you clap eyes on the baby but unfortunately the eye is immediately drawn to the mum who's out of focus.

I'm not too sure about he skin tones in some of them and a couple seem a tad dark which will show more in print. Yes, the backgrounds in a couple could be better but that's not a massive issue in this instance as how many people who aren't togs are going to point that out?

Overall though I think you're on the right track, like I say the most important thing is that your clients are happy and my bet is they'll be delighted.

 

[Lynton]

They're not bad at all to be fair, my guess is the families will absolutely love them and that's the main thing.

Is it or is it?

Is it, do a job so "they are happy, and that's the main thing" or "Do I do the best I can, and blow em away?"

Please the client or excite and astound the client?

I know what camp I'd go for.

 

[cambsno]

Agree with most of the comments, although I do like no.5, which is a really nice natural looking shot.

 

[custodian]

nice natural set of family snaps.

 

[Rokkin]

Good set of two faimlies. I would go for tighter crop on number 2, remove the wonky horizon.

 

[Blue Eagle]

I must say I really like these, i'd be damn chuffed with them. Leaves a stuff might be a problem to some but you've nailed composition (eg, 9,4), focus and expression. Personally I would warm some them up a touch but that might be my screen, or taste because I like photos as warm as possible without making them look silly.

 

[AliB]

. but you've nailed composition (eg, 9,4), focus and expression.

errrm don't agree with nailing composition in 9 and 4. 4 has clipped the foot and the knee with too tight a crop and 9 has chopped a bit of the child's head off! 11 also has the child's foot chopped off.

There is also an issue with shooting too close with a short focal length lens that is altering the perspective and in an unflattering way such as in no1. Look at the size of the mum's arm compared to her head. This is called foreshortening and is caused by using too short a focal length too close.

 

[Dman]

Is it or is it?

Is it, do a job so "they are happy, and that's the main thing" or "Do I do the best I can, and blow em away?"

Please the client or excite and astound the client?

I know what camp I'd go for.

Indeed, it's the second one that's most important, however first and foremost is to ensure the client goes away happy even if you think/know you could have done better. It's a learning curve and you'll only get better with experience.

 

[awp]

nice natural set of family snaps.

Sums it up for me. If you're doing paid work then all the pics have to be better than good - there are a lot of faults in these as has been pointed out - so not really pro standard I'm afraid.

 

[joescrivens]

The first thing thats really interesting in this thread is how much crit you have received, lots of it very useful but it's interesting how much of it you have compared with other photos you've posted. Because the thread title says first paid work - people have decided to be more frank and respond more than your normal shots.

My advice to you is to selectively listen to the crit, everyone has their opinion of course but doesn't mean they are right or wrong, I'd be valuing the opinions of the people who have critiqued whose work you admire. Not everyone's thoughts are as valid as others if you know what I mean, including my own

1. I agree with the dof thing others mentioned, but your background and the expression on the babies face is excellent. I also love the light in the background falling on the trees. If mum had been smiling and leaning her head onto the baby I think this shot would have been perfect.

2. You could probably fix the housing estate bit from this shot with some clever cloning and a bit of a crop. I think the babies expression and the colour in her eyes is worth keeping and fixing the background - again I love the light falling behind. I would imagine this shot shows the personality of this little un to the parents. The leaves to the right? clone them out easily, also looks like a bit of lens flare bottom left which you could fix.

3. I like this one a lot, I think the dof effect works well. Others disagree but opinions differ. Love the expression on the first girls face and he bokeh is really dreamy. The fence is fine in my opinion, if it wasn't there by the looks of the exposure you'd have a a white mess of a background of blown highlights.

4. This one is lovely too. Agree with the comment about the clipping of the foot and knee though - if this is a crop you can fix that though. Again, I don't have a problem with the background.

5. Love this one, great expressions, sharp focus and good background and bokeh. Top shot

6. Really like this one too. It is almost impossible to get that many people smiling at the right time when the little boy does, having tried this many times with my 14 month old I know how hard that is. My advice would be to put your camera on a tripod, use a remote release and have some toys, balloons, bubbles jumping around and laughing whatever it takes to get that kid to look and smile and you'd have nailed this one. I don't think you have to have their feet in it, you've cropped it high enough for this to be deliberate

7. same as above - tough job getting the baby to smile - she may not even smile yet? tripod and toys etc. God background and great focus and exposure

8. This is kind of the pose i meant for one but because baby isn't looking and her right hand side is cut off I don't think this one is great.

9. Love this one.

10. The wide angle thing definitely ruined this one, and look the baby is looking right down the barrell!! should have gone with more dof and this could have been a winner - looks like you went higher to avoid the distractions in the background which was a good choice

11. I think we either need to see more of mums face and body or none of it - could have been a nice dad shot.

12. This is superb and my fav of the lot. Love the expressions and the way the family are all interacting. very natural.

As for the comments on these being good instead of great or not pro standard, pretty sure you aren't claiming they are pro standard. And I would imagine the customer does think they are great and has been wowed by them. If they were then job done

 

[jamesoliverstone]

The first thing thats really interesting in this thread is how much crit you have received, lots of it very useful but it's interesting how much of it you have compared with other photos you've posted. Because the thread title says first paid work - people have decided to be more frank and respond more than your normal shots.

My advice to you is to selectively listen to the crit, everyone has their opinion of course but doesn't mean they are right or wrong, I'd be valuing the opinions of the people who have critiqued whose work you admire. Not everyone's thoughts are as valid as others if you know what I mean, including my own

1. I agree with the dof thing others mentioned, but your background and the expression on the babies face is excellent. I also love the light in the background falling on the trees. If mum had been smiling and leaning her head onto the baby I think this shot would have been perfect.

2. You could probably fix the housing estate bit from this shot with some clever cloning and a bit of a crop. I think the babies expression and the colour in her eyes is worth keeping and fixing the background - again I love the light falling behind. I would imagine this shot shows the personality of this little un to the parents. The leaves to the right? clone them out easily, also looks like a bit of lens flare bottom left which you could fix.

3. I like this one a lot, I think the dof effect works well. Others disagree but opinions differ. Love the expression on the first girls face and he bokeh is really dreamy. The fence is fine in my opinion, if it wasn't there by the looks of the exposure you'd have a a white mess of a background of blown highlights.

4. This one is lovely too. Agree with the comment about the clipping of the foot and knee though - if this is a crop you can fix that though. Again, I don't have a problem with the background.

5. Love this one, great expressions, sharp focus and good background and bokeh. Top shot

6. Really like this one too. It is almost impossible to get that many people smiling at the right time when the little boy does, having tried this many times with my 14 month old I know how hard that is. My advice would be to put your camera on a tripod, use a remote release and have some toys, balloons, bubbles jumping around and laughing whatever it takes to get that kid to look and smile and you'd have nailed this one. I don't think you have to have their feet in it, you've cropped it high enough for this to be deliberate

7. same as above - tough job getting the baby to smile - she may not even smile yet? tripod and toys etc. God background and great focus and exposure

8. This is kind of the pose i meant for one but because baby isn't looking and her right hand side is cut off I don't think this one is great.

9. Love this one.

10. The wide angle thing definitely ruined this one, and look the baby is looking right down the barrell!! should have gone with more dof and this could have been a winner - looks like you went higher to avoid the distractions in the background which was a good choice

11. I think we either need to see more of mums face and body or none of it - could have been a nice dad shot.

12. This is superb and my fav of the lot. Love the expressions and the way the family are all interacting. very natural.

As for the comments on these being good instead of great or not pro standard, pretty sure you aren't claiming they are pro standard. And I would imagine the customer does think they are great and has been wowed by them. If they were then job done

Thats a really good piece of concise and useful feedback

Personally, I like what you have gone for here. Practise using your DOF to maximum effect and keep an eye on your backgrounds, with practise you will be taking some fab shots.

Nothing more to add than hasnt already been covered.

 

[AliB]

Agree with the guys above, there IS potential here but it's not yet being fully utilised. It's tough when you start doing it professionally but there IS room for improvement and hopefully the crit you received will be taken in good heart (because it is honestly meant with the best of intentions) and you will improve every shoot you do.

One of my mentors takes great delight in chucking me in at the deep end and savages me when I mess up in the belief that I won't do it again It's not the best way to teach everyone (unless you have thick skin or like me is just plain thick! ) so hope you take it all Ok and remember to just check round the viewfinder for framing next time out.

 

[cuthbert]

i'd just like to thank everybody for their constructive comments on these, especially Joe and AliB who's crit was the most useful. Sorry i've not been able to reply sooner as I've been away.

I agree a number of them perhaps were not my strongest work, but for what it's worth, the clients were really happy and i got very positive feedback - it was a tough time trying to photograph a baby which was only a few weeks old.... i knew it was going to be tough because it's hard enough with my own who is actually slightly older and i spent some time practising with.

the problem i found when doing a shoot such as this with very young babies is that sometimes they won't play ball on the day and that you can't always walk away with that great shot you wanted every time, it's very frustrating but just the way it is. btw, the clients loved the expression in #12.

when i photograph my own children, i think nothing of traipsing around for a couple of hours to find the right place and get the right shot, with other clients i was pretty much limited to a back garden and a local park (the locations used) - in both cases the shoots took place during the late afternoon (due to various work commitments on both sides) so i didn't have much good light left so i had to use places nearby. i do think some of my crops could be better, especially the errant use of short focal lengths in some. in some images i got the better background, but child blinked or was moving her head too fast so i had to move and try and get the best i could - in the end i opted for the better expression rather than the background.

the comment from awp about the photographs not being up to pro standard - i have never claimed to the clients that i was a pro photographer, indeed, i was asked to do the photoshoots simply because photos i have taken for family and friends have been seen on facebook and i was asked if i would take a few of their family and that was it.

i did enjoy the experiences very much and certainly take the points on board for next time.

 

[awp]

Sorry if I misunderstood - but you said paid photoshoots - you get paid for it people have a right to expect professional work - and the work should be of a certain standard.

 

[joescrivens]

Sorry if I misunderstood - but you said paid photoshoots - you get paid for it people have a right to expect professional work - and the work should be of a certain standard.

Guess you didn't read this part

the clients were really happy and i got very positive feedback

standards when it comes to photography is all subjective. Much like food, what I think is delicious and of a high quality my wife thinks is rank! The clients paid for a service and were happy with what they got therefore it's job done.

 

[awp]

Sorry Joe but it's that attitude that is dropping standards all over the place. Just because the client likes it doesn't mean it's a good job - just that it meets a minimum requirement.

 

[joescrivens]

Sorry Joe but it's that attitude that is dropping standards all over the place. Just because the client likes it doesn't mean it's a good job - just that it meets a minimum requirement.

It hasn't met a minimum requirement at all. If the clients found the results 'satisfactory' then maybe it was a minimum requirement. But the clients "were really happy" so it met their exact requirement.

It is a good job exactly because the client liked it. Thats the whole remit for the job. I can't stand the photography of that guy who was on that TV show last week Martin Parr - to me his work is of a poor standard - but the people who buy it disagree, it's subjective up to a point. If the photos are in focus, without camera shake and correctly exposed then everything else is personal opinion.

 

[cuthbert]

Thank you Joe - you nailed my thoughts really - i know there were some technical errors here and i've never intimated that i'm a pro togger. very much an enthusiast that wants to learn (that's why i post and read here, after all!) but in the end, both gave me really positive feedback and whilst i was disappointed at the time i didn't get every shot i envisioned i was proud that i was able to provide a young family with a record of their children they can treasure.

Andrew, what i would add in response to your comment "Sorry if I misunderstood - but you said paid photoshoots - you get paid for it people have a right to expect professional work - and the work should be of a certain standard." is that whilst i agree 100%, i think you have to factor how much the client pays into the argument; a ford focus does the same basic job as a bugatti veyron -the experience in both is completely different and the cost between the two is completely different.

for what it's worth, i charged 50 quid for: 1 hour photoshoot, 5 prints and a cd-rom containing all the high res images. on the cd-rom both got between 15 and 20 shots and i told them to expect 10. i also asked them not to pay me unless they were happy and that if i didn't get anything they wanted they could reschedule at the weekend where we'd both have more time (work reasons on the part of the client for why this couldn't happen in the first place).

regarding standards dropping... there is a fairly well known professional wedding photographer around these parts whose work looks like it's been shot with a compact (harsh shadows from flash, incorrect wb, bad exposure/clipped highlights on faces from sunshine) and a minimum spend with her is about 800 quid. a few things on facebook got tagged though friend-of-friend and i somehow ended up looking through a few pictures she'd taken (albeit resized) with metadata intact - cameras used: canon eos 30d and 350d. focal lengths between 18 and 55mm. it suggested to me that this wedding was probably shot with a kit lens.... horrifying... but... is that what you get if you pay £800? maybe. many people thought the photos were fine though.

 

[Coaster]

I wonder if the clients would have been so happy if they had seen what a real pro would have done.

 

[DekHog]

I wonder if the clients would have been so happy if they had seen what a real pro would have done.

That's a really uncalled for and derogatory comment - they never paid for a 'real pro,' they paid for images they would be happy with, and that's what they got - and they only paid £50 for them into the bargain..... :razz:

 

[Coaster]

Let's be honest here. Any half decent amateur could have done better. It was a paid photo-shoot and as someone commented earlier, this type of thing does tend to drag the profession down.

 

[zebel]

As an absolute novice myself and having just completed a very basic course with Red Cloud I am not at all qualified to critique your photo's. However i will agree with the DOF comments and the awareness of whats in the background. But what you have nailed in my opinion is the natural feel of these photo's. They really work and I can well understand why they are chuffed with the end result. Well done.

 

[DekHog]

Let's be honest here. Any half decent amateur could have done better. It was a paid photo-shoot and as someone commented earlier, this type of thing does tend to drag the profession down.

Yes, ALL of them aren't great - 1, 2, 3, 10 & 11 I would have rejected instantly had I taken, them, but the remainder are more than acceptable to a family looking for some decent pictures of themselves..... the other option was probably going to a studio and being talked into shelling out the best part of £500 or so....

 

[Hypnorm]

I wonder if the clients would have been so happy if they had seen what a real pro would have done.

But he never stated that he was a pro, I'm sure the family are well aware that they could have gone out and paid double the amount for pro images, but they didn't.

Think the photos are good, and I'm sure the OP will have learnt from the crit, everyone has to start somewhere and learn on the way. We don't instantly become pros over night.

 

[awp]

I really hate these 'everyone has to start somewhere' comments - you don't start by experimenting with paying clients! He was paid so he was treating this as a pro job - at least before he shot it!!

BTW - if the client pays 'less' they should get fewer not lower quality.

Cuthbert - you obviously were happy with the shots or you would not have been displaying them here - and because you got positive feedback from non photographers (clients) you thought you'd get the same here - when faced with the truth - you're not so happy!

 

[Coaster]

I really hate these 'everyone has to start somewhere' comments - you don't start by experimenting with paying clients! He was paid so he was treating this as a pro job - at least before he shot it!!

BTW - if the client pays 'less' they should get fewer not lower quality.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[0ut 0f Focus]

I am really shocked by some of the comments on this thread. I have always found this forum to be incredibly friendly and everyone seems to usually offer constructive criticism.

From what the OP has said, clearly the clients knew they were not getting an experienced, top quality photographer but someone in the process of learning. This is what they paid for and from the sounds of it were happy with the result.

Should a client really be expecting the same quality shoot for £50 as they would if they paid £££s? I certainly wouldn't!

For what it's worth I think there were some nice, natural shots in there that non-photographers would be happy to receive and although there is certainly room for improvement surely it would be some kind of miracle for a photographer to go from amateur to expert with nothing in between?!

 

[joescrivens]

Let's be honest here. Any half decent amateur could have done better. It was a paid photo-shoot and as someone commented earlier, this type of thing does tend to drag the profession down.

Looking through the photos you yourself have submitted for crit I would say you've pretty much proven yourself wrong here.

I don't normally put bitchy comments like that and quite frankly I'll be happy to take any punishment from a mod for doing so because your comments in this thread are bang out of order, reign yourself back in because the OPs shots are a mile ahead of your own. :razz:

Cuthbert - you obviously were happy with the shots or you would not have been displaying them here - and because you got positive feedback from non photographers (clients) you thought you'd get the same here - when faced with the truth - you're not so happy!

Not sure where you got this from, I think Cuthberts demeanour in this thread has been totally on the level, you seem to be insinuating he's spat the dummy which is not the case at all, he's taken the 'useful' crit well.

A last note for cuthbert, I'd echo what I said in my first post regarding to choose selectively who to listen to and who to ignore, there has been some very good negative crit that I would be listening to as it comes from people who seem to have a good handle and of people I respect and there's also some comments (more recently) that are nothing more than drivel.

 

[On the Huh]

IMHO Joe and AliB and others have given some constructive crit. AWP and Coaster may have a point, but feel they need to explain their thoughts more constructively. Apart from that can't see a problem.:0

I hope AWP really hasn't had enough, I sometimes enjoy his bluntness, and Victor Meldrews tone!

 

[On the Huh]

The forum is for opinions across the board. Let's not fall out cos' people disagree.