Flash/Studio advice for newbie.

[Zimmer]

I realise there are many similar threads, and that the experts here must groan "not again" ,but honestly I did read many of the threads and here goes.

Another newbie here, both to the forum and to flash photography.
I have dabbled with photography for quite a few years, but by dabbled I mean I have bought a lot of stuff and took very few photo’s mainly due to laziness, but 2015 is the year.
On the equipment front, at the moment I have a Canon 60 D (for the last year almost unused)
I have a nifty fifty, a Canon 100mm f2.8 macro (non L) lens a Canon 430 Ex II flashgun and a decent tripod.
For my Christmas present I got me a Canon 24-105 L.

Due to the fact that here in Ireland, after every "family occasion" it lashes rain for hours, I want to set up a cheap 'n cheerful home studio, to get a few “decent” shots of family members on special occasions (maximum of about 6 people). i.e I'm being held at gun point by my brother and sisters to take photo's of their kids.
At the moment, it’s not really the type of photography that fascinates me, so I don’t want to spend a fortune on it,
i.e I have no intention of starting up a glamour studio, but likewise I would like some “decent” shots and I do realise the definition of “decent” is vague to say the least.

Anyway after reading some threads here, I have come up with the following “shopping list”

2 of “Hot Shoe Flash Holder for light stand with Umbrella lock”
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kaavie-Univ...f=lh_ni_t_mi?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AYKQOU01L2ZM5

2 of “ Photography Light stand”
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photography...photolamps/dp/B0011363NS/ref=pd_bxgy_ce_img_y

2 of “ Konig 33 inch Photographic Flashgun Softbox Umbrella”
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Konig-Photo...x-Umbrella/dp/B0065245B2/ref=pd_bxgy_ph_img_z

1 of YongNuo YN-568EX II Flashgun
http://www.amazon.co.uk/YONGNUO-YN-568EXII-YongNuo-YN-568EX-Flashgun/dp/B00DB21TCM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1419809429&sr=1-1&keywords=YN568EX TTL

1 of Background stands
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Neewer-2-6x3m-Heavy-Background-Adjustable/dp/B005B90IUC/ref=sr_1_23?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1419809996&sr=1-23&keywords=photo backdrop kit

and some back drops


By my reckoning, my Canon 60D would fire both my 430EX II and the YongNuoYN-568EX II Flashgun using the built in flash, or I could buy the following

1 of “A YongNuo YN622C-Tx with 2 receivers”
http://www.amazon.co.uk/YONGNUO-YN-...ie=UTF8&qid=1419809100&sr=1-5&keywords=YN622C


So a few questions and bearing in mind, I know nothing about flash/studio photography
Based on my limited requirements:

1 Will above 2 flash system “do” the job, am I on the right track ?
2. Do I need the YongNuo receivers/transmitters, or will the built in 60D flash suffice as trigger.
3. Is a flash system the best for my “limited needs” or should I go for a constant lighting setup.
4. Is there any recommended book for simple setup tips rather than an encyclopaedia on studio lighting.
5. If I am on the right track, with my equipment list, is there any better equipment that could be substituted without breaking the bank.
6. Ignoring personal preference, what colour backdrop is easiest to start with - Black ??



Any help suggestions appreciated.

 

[Sharky]

Just a few random thoughts:

I'd swap out the background support system for a heavier duty one for not much extra e.g. ebay item 181192689739 or similar (they seem to have gone up in price, used to be around £50). It has better quality stands and a telescopic crossed which comes in handy vs fixed width crossbars that slot together effectively offering you only a few fixed widths which can be a pain.

Cheap constant light setups are best for still work e.g. product photography. For portraiture unless it's very powerful (read expensive) constant light then strobes would be best for your situation.

The YN-568EX-II is a TTL flash so you could swap that out for the cheaper YN-560 III which is a manual flash and has built in radio trigger. You still need something to fire it remotely so that could be its optical slave function (e.g. it'll see your 430EXII flash firing and then fire itself) or a radio trigger that is compatible (rf603II works directly with it or go for full remote control with a YN560-TX). The nice thing about the YN-560III's coupled with a YN560-TX is you can put them in groups and control the power, zoom remotely, saves a lot of messing around.

A white shoot through umbrella will scatter light everywhere with very little control, useful for some situations but could limit your end results. Add a softbox or octobox (ideally with a grid) to your shopping list so you get more control and can get creative.

Consider getting a speedlite to bowens s-type head instead of the umbrella hotshoe holder. It'll be more secure / better quality and give you access to more light modifiers in the shape of the bowens s-type fitting. Link : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Godox-...hotography_Flash_Brackets&hash=item35e18d4d2f

or as an alternative the adaptor plus a small softbox:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Godox-S-T...hotography_Flash_Brackets&hash=item3ced1356f4

Start with some good Youtube videos on portraiture and put the money saved on books towards more kit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmi9TPQ57Mo&index=6&list=WL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Occ8W-zIE&list=WL&index=8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQhH2GC4DTM&list=WL&index=34

 

[Zimmer]

Thanks Sharky for your great reply, will try to digest and watch those youtubes when I get home from work, those Godox speedlite brackets you mention look very good.

 

[Sharky]

Background a mi

Thanks Sharky for your great reply, will try to digest and watch those youtubes when I get home from work, those Godox speedlite brackets you mention look very good.

Very welcome, post back any questions there are loads of very knowledgeable people on here to help out.

This video is worth a watch, it's Nikon centric so you can skip parts of it that aren't relevant e.g. cls, how to control an SB910. Otherwise it's a really good intro into the very basics then advances to lighting concepts and real world use which are relevant regardless of flash system used.

Nikon Speedlight Handbook: Flash Techniques for Digital Photographers

 

[Zimmer]

Christmas money gone, too late to turn back.

I ordered the following:

Backdrop stands and grey backdrop

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/PIXAPRO-Tele...=UK_Photography_Backdrops&hash=item2a3fa38e1d

Godox Bowens type speedlite Flash bracket mount with softbox 60 x 60.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PH20DYO/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

Godox Bowens type speedlite Flash bracket mount with softbox 80 x 80

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PH20E0W/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

Two light stands

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0011363NS/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

YongNuo Flashgun Model: YN-568EX II (I know there is cheaper, but I decided on this one for the sake of the few quid)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DB21TCM/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

Yongnuo YN-622C Wireless TTL Flash triggers with mini diffuser.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00N8G2STY/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

YN-622C-TX E-TTL LCD wireless flash controller wireless flash trigger For Canon DSLR

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LD0K77M/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item


In case another newbie is considering same, the above set me back about £400 in total, including delivery to Ireland.

Hope I'm "on the right track" lol.

 

[Phil V]

Christmas money gone, too late to turn back.

I ordered the following:

Backdrop stands and grey backdrop

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/PIXAPRO-Tele...=UK_Photography_Backdrops&hash=item2a3fa38e1d

Godox Bowens type speedlite Flash bracket mount with softbox 60 x 60.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PH20DYO/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

Godox Bowens type speedlite Flash bracket mount with softbox 80 x 80

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PH20E0W/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

Two light stands

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0011363NS/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

YongNuo Flashgun Model: YN-568EX II (I know there is cheaper, but I decided on this one for the sake of the few quid)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DB21TCM/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

Yongnuo YN-622C Wireless TTL Flash triggers with mini diffuser.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00N8G2STY/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

YN-622C-TX E-TTL LCD wireless flash controller wireless flash trigger For Canon DSLR

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LD0K77M/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item


In case another newbie is considering same, the above set me back about £400 in total, including delivery to Ireland.

Hope I'm "on the right track" lol.

Looks like a half decent portable setup.

A slight fly in the ointment, a 2 head studio kit from Lencarta would have been cheaper and better.

 

[Diving Pete]

Looks like a half decent portable setup.

A slight fly in the ointment, a 2 head studio kit from Lencarta would have been cheaper and better.

agreed, just not as portable if thats what the OP wanted...

 

[Zimmer]

The OP doesn't really know what he wants, but if he gets to master the above, he will be doing OK.
Also the backdrop and stands plus delivery to Ireland are taking up a large chunk of the expenditure above, which would not be included with the Lencarta kit. ( I think)
The portability may come in useful too (someday)

 

[kraftyskillz]

Considering i'm looking to do something quite similar, i would like to know how you got on with your setup?

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Considering i'm looking to do something quite similar, i would like to know how you got on with your setup?

Me too

 

[Garry Edwards]

Looks like a half decent portable setup.

A slight fly in the ointment, a 2 head studio kit from Lencarta would have been cheaper and better.

What you've bought will do the job, in the sense that it will produce sufficient quantity of light to produce well exposed photos.
But, lighting isn't about quantity, it's about quality, and although decent quality is possible with any kind of lighting, it would have been much better IMO to have bought yourself a twin head studio kit with 1 softbox and 1 umbrella - the modelling lamps and the fast recycling make life so much easier.
And I think that a background kit is an unecessary expense, for home studio portraits an environmental background is often much better and much more natural and you will really struggle to light a creased cotton background with the lighting equipment you're planning to use. Is it too late to re-think your purchases?

Look on the Lencarta Learning Centre for lighting tutorials

 

[connersz]

And I think that a background kit is an unecessary expense, for home studio portraits an environmental background is often much better and much more natural and you will really struggle to light a creased cotton background with the lighting equipment you're planning to use. Is it too late to re-think your purchases?

Well that's one good reason why the OP would be better suited to speedlights as it would be much easier to move them around than a set of big studio flashes. There is also the option of using TTL with the setup he has gone for.

 

[connersz]

Just see how old this post is Lol. How has it become resurrected?

 

[kraftyskillz]

Well, its quite old but rather than start yet another thread, and everyone adds info they've added multiple times. thought it better to recycle. That way, the next person has all the info in one place.

Mostly wanted some feedback on how they got on but hey, if knowledge from experienced backgrounds comes with it, why not.

 

[connersz]

Well, its quite old but rather than start yet another thread, and everyone adds info they've added multiple times. thought it better to recycle. That way, the next person has all the info in one place.

Mostly wanted some feedback on how they got on but hey, if knowledge from experienced backgrounds comes with it, why not.

That makes sense. I think I see Gary's post and presumed it was a fairly recent thing.

 

[Garry Edwards]

That makes sense. I think I see Gary's post and presumed it was a fairly recent thing.

Well, I didn't look at the date and just assumed that it was current...

Well that's one good reason why the OP would be better suited to speedlights as it would be much easier to move them around than a set of big studio flashes. There is also the option of using TTL with the setup he has gone for.

I'm not sure why you think that hotshoe flashes would in any way be better than studio flash for lighting a background but hey ho.. And I may be missing something, but why would anyone want to use TTL in a studio setting? The whole point of studio lighting is to leave mediocrity behind.

 

[connersz]

Well, I didn't look at the date and just assumed that it was current...

I'm not sure why you think that hotshoe flashes would in any way be better than studio flash for lighting a background but hey ho.. And I may be missing something, but why would anyone want to use TTL in a studio setting? The whole point of studio lighting is to leave mediocrity behind.

You suggested environmental portraits would be a good approach.

Although the advice in general is reasonable, I happen to notice that you popup in almost all studio lighting related threads and offer your companies studio lights. Do you feel that it's a responsible form of advertising given that this forum is supposed to be a source of unbiased advice from other like-minded people?

 

[Zimmer]

As the OP, hand on heart I can say, this thread deserves to be current, because I haven't used any of the equipment yet.

 

[Garry Edwards]

You suggested environmental portraits would be a good approach.

Although the advice in general is reasonable, I happen to notice that you popup in almost all studio lighting related threads and offer your companies studio lights. Do you feel that it's a responsible form of advertising given that this forum is supposed to be a source of unbiased advice from other like-minded people?

You haven't actually "noticed" that Lencarta makes studio lights, that information is clearly stated by me in my signature.
Yes, I do "pop up" in a lot of studio lighting threads, that's because I have an interest in, and knowledge of, studio lighting.
And I try to give unbiased, accurate information that is not related to our own products. I just happen to believe that studio lighting equipment is a better choice for studio photography than hotshoe flashes, for most people, most of the time. And I didn't even mention Lencarta products in this thread. The fact that my signature appeared in my first post is not within my control, that's how the forum operates.

 

[connersz]

You haven't actually "noticed" that Lencarta makes studio lights, that information is clearly stated by me in my signature.
Yes, I do "pop up" in a lot of studio lighting threads, that's because I have an interest in, and knowledge of, studio lighting.
And I try to give unbiased, accurate information that is not related to our own products. I just happen to believe that studio lighting equipment is a better choice for studio photography than hotshoe flashes, for most people, most of the time. And I didn't even mention Lencarta products in this thread. The fact that my signature appeared in my first post is not within my control, that's how the forum operates.

I am totally aware of who Lencarta are as I use them personally but they aren't the solution to every requirement. It may be in your best interest to provide an unbiased approach but I'm skeptical whether that's totally possible given such a heavy affiliation with a single brand. It certainly doesn't come across unbiased, especially as you don't mention any other brand of studio equipment and often quote certain sets or products which you stock.

The signature appearing may be out of your control but the content is. If you're really interested in just providing advice on studio lighting as you said then why do you even need a signature?

 

[Garry Edwards]

I am totally aware of who Lencarta are as I use them personally but they aren't the solution to every requirement. It may be in your best interest to provide an unbiased approach but I'm skeptical whether that's totally possible given such a heavy affiliation with a single brand. It certainly doesn't come across unbiased, especially as you don't mention any other brand of studio equipment and often quote certain sets or products which you stock.

The signature appearing may be out of your control but the content is. If you're really interested in just providing advice on studio lighting as you said then why do you even need a signature?

I'm also a fan of Mercedes cars, Browning shotguns and Android tablets, and if I belonged to any forums covering those subjects you'd probably get upset with me there too But, in reality, I try to advise people honestly and only last week I pointed a customer with a specific need towards either Profoto or Einchrom, as both of those Companies have equipment that meets his needs and Lencarta doesn't, because he wants to do flash photography using a large format camera using a wet plate process, and needs more powerful flashes than we make. As it happens, I couldn't help him with his flash requirements but I do know about large format photography and collodion plates.

As for my signature, take it up with the admins here, as they quite rightly require me to have a signature that clearly states my affiliation with Lencarta. If you don't like my posts, there is an 'ignore' button you know...

 

[Garry Edwards]

As the OP, hand on heart I can say, this thread deserves to be current, because I haven't used any of the equipment yet.

Didn't you say that 2015 was going to be your year for getting on with it?
Only 31 days left

 

[connersz]

I'm also a fan of Mercedes cars, Browning shotguns and Android tablets

That's entirely different, you don't own/work for any of those companies. It's fine to have preferences or be biased towards a brand but if you're the owner of the company then there's something unethical about it. It's probably at that point as well that it could become a subconscious form of advertising. If you had the owner of Nikon on here telling everyone that a Canon is unsuitable then that would likely raise a few eyebrows as does this.

I'm sure you're required to have a signature as an advertiser, but I would be surprised if they explicitly ask you to include 'ten' links within it to your brands online content. I'm sure an "I work for Lencarta, check out some of our studio equipment here..." would suffice, after all it's just a signature not a CV.

 

[Diving Pete]

Jamie,

As someone who has actually met Garry, you REALLY don't know what you are talking about.

Pete

 

[shreds]

As one with no affiliations or products to sell. I have to say that my unbiased view is that Garry's knowledge regards lighting is undoubtedly very helpful here and I have learnt much.

I am pleased he discloses his interests and certainly Lencarta equipment of friends that I have used, has proved great. But I have also used Elinchrom, which in some situations is better for specific situations but noticeably more pricey. Profoto stuff is beyond reach as Elle MacPherson and Naomi Campbell rarely drop in for a coffee and a portfolio update. I personally have a Bowens set up and can say I am very happy with that but don't feel that Garry's posts are in any way detrimental or problematical. What I do dislike is writers/authors/journalists who don't disclose their interest, particularly where they are on the payroll of some photographic company. So please don't dismiss Garry (who I don't know any more than anyone else here on this forum) for jumping in on lighting threads. If he were to get above himself or provide duff advice, I am certain that he would soon be pulled down.

The admins and mods are happy too, but they are biased. Garry is an advertiser who pays them.

Keep up the dialogue, Mr Edwards, I am happy to continue to learn.........

 

[connersz]

Jamie,

As someone who has actually met Garry, you REALLY don't know what you are talking about.

Pete

Yes as as a member of the vast majority on here who haven't it looks very dodgy that an advertiser is using the forum in this way. I certainly don't see the other advertisers (digitalrev, lenses for hire etc.) doing this.

As one with no affiliations or products to sell. I have to say that my unbiased view is that Garry's knowledge regards lighting is undoubtedly very helpful here and I have learnt much.

I am pleased he discloses his interests and certainly Lencarta equipment of friends that I have used, has proved great. But I have also used Elinchrom, which in some situations is better for specific situations but noticeably more pricey. Profoto stuff is beyond reach as Elle MacPherson and Naomi Campbell rarely drop in for a coffee and a portfolio update. I personally have a Bowens set up and can say I am very happy with that but don't feel that Garry's posts are in any way detrimental or problematical. What I do dislike is writers/authors/journalists who don't disclose their interest, particularly where they are on the payroll of some photographic company. So please don't dismiss Garry (who I don't know any more than anyone else here on this forum) for jumping in on lighting threads. If he were to get above himself or provide duff advice, I am certain that he would soon be pulled down.

The admins and mods are happy too, but they are biased. Garry is an advertiser who pays them.

Keep up the dialogue, Mr Edwards, I am happy to continue to learn.........

It has absolutely nothing to do with the equipment itself or the advice for that matter, both of which are fine. The issue is that those products in particular are being involved in generalised questions and it could potentially be misleading to someone who doesn't know him, signature or no signature.

Yes you are right about the admins but if they're actively allowing advertisers to target people in that way it would be very disappointing and I'm sure it is not their intentions. I think some strengthening of the signature rules could be a good start as it's generally not supposed to be an area for small print (at least it's not in any definition I can think of).

 

[mike weeks]

Yes as as a member of the vast majority on here who haven't it looks very dodgy that an advertiser is using the forum in this way. I certainly don't see the other advertisers (digitalrev, lenses for hire etc.) doing this.


It has absolutely nothing to do with the equipment itself or the advice for that matter, both of which are fine. The issue is that those products in particular are being involved in generalised questions and it could potentially be misleading to someone who doesn't know him, signature or no signature.

Yes you are right about the admins but if they're actively allowing advertisers to target people in that way it would be very disappointing and I'm sure it is not their intentions. I think some strengthening of the signature rules could be a good start as it's generally not supposed to be an area for small print (at least it's not in any definition I can think of).

Garry has operated in this manner for many years and his advice is second to none and I say that as somebody that has been employed to demonstrate for a rival firm to Lencarta, he knows it but I know that if I called tomorrow he would happily have a chat and answer my questions, he is that sort of bloke - whilst he may show what the Lencarta answer to a lighting question is what he has never done is recommended something that somebody does not need. If you have an issue raise it with the admins (that is what they are there for) because the only person looking stupid out of this is........................, well you can fill in the blank space.

Mike

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

You suggested environmental portraits would be a good approach.

Although the advice in general is reasonable, I happen to notice that you popup in almost all studio lighting related threads and offer your companies studio lights. Do you feel that it's a responsible form of advertising given that this forum is supposed to be a source of unbiased advice from other like-minded people?

Garry didnt mention lencarta studio lights, Phil did.
Garry suggested the lencarta tutorial page, which is a good help I would think.
I've often read Garrys posts where he does mention lencarta when asked specific questions, but has also stated that there are other manufacturers available.
Not sure what the problem is.

 

[shreds]

Yes as as a member of the vast majority on here who haven't it looks very dodgy that an advertiser is using the forum in this way. I certainly don't see the other advertisers (digitalrev, lenses for hire etc.) doing this.

Lenses4Hire are very much in the Lencarta bracket and again are very open and helpful, with unbiased advice. Digital Rev provide pricing on items on request through the forum, as well as some incredibly amusing videos. Enjoy or learn rather than criticising. If you don't like it tell the admins.

I personally think the forum is better for their offerings.

 

[Phil V]

Garry has operated in this manner for many years and his advice is second to none and I say that as somebody that has been employed to demonstrate for a rival firm to Lencarta, he knows it but I know that if I called tomorrow he would happily have a chat and answer my questions, he is that sort of bloke - whilst he may show what the Lencarta answer to a lighting question is what he has never done is recommended something that somebody does not need. If you have an issue raise it with the admins (that is what they are there for) because the only person looking stupid out of this is........................, well you can fill in the blank space.

Mike

This^
I speak as someone who's had awesome personal advice from Mike, and spent a fair bit of time with Garry too.

The relationship Garry has created with TP has built a fantastic resource, he offers free workshops to members where you can get the quality of training I've paid hundreds for from other sources in the past.

The forum rule for advertisers is that they show a banner on their avatar, so everyone reading can see their position.

Additionally, Garry always mentions his relationship when suggesting products, and often mentions other brands being available.

Frankly, it's difficult to imagine how it could be done better.

 

[robp]

I have spoken with Garry both in person and over the phone and have come away feeling rather bemused tbh. Because rather than pushing Lencarta gear, as one would reasonably expect, he talks honestly and openly about all lighting gear. And by honestly, I mean that just as he will slate a cheapo piece of crap on ebay, he will also relate just how good a rival's kit is if he feels it merits such an appraisal.
connersz, you really should lighten up and pay heed to Phil V's post above. The expertise Garry willingly and freely shares far outweighs any perceived attempt to push Lencarta imho.

 

[MIKEROPHONICS]

I enjoy reading Gary's wisdom and always learn from his wisdom, as I do from Mike and Phil. Please light up and Gary On ... To pun a well used modern saying

 

[snerkler]

Rather than start another thread on the same subject I thought I'd hijack this one if that's OK OP? If not I'll delete this post and start another.

Anyway, I've just decided to try a bit of creative studio lighting of mainly 'product photogrpahy' but am only armed with a Nikon SB700 speedlight and a teeny tiny lumiquest softbox which I use for macro
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B010V4OZ...1ZZT1&coliid=I3FLQ3SK4ZMPPK&psc=1&tag=av0c-21.
I would like to do portraits but don't have any willing models so can't see this happening any time soon.

I tried taking a photo of a rum bottle and failed miserably, but was put onto a really useful book and video on how to light bottles and it quickly became apparent that my equipment is severely lacking So I've been looking into some better lighting. As it's only for a bit of fun, and I'm not sure how much I'd use it I don't want to spend a lot, but at the same time I really hate working with rubbish equipment that proves to be such a PITA to use it spoils the fun. I did see this kit on amazon but the folk over on AVF said that it would be cheap rubbish, and won't be very good.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B010V4OZ...1ZZT1&coliid=I3FLQ3SK4ZMPPK&psc=1&tag=av0c-21

The best option suggested was a couple of Lencarta SmartFlash 2's and large-ish softboxes, but this would work out expensive for something that might not get all that much use (although you never know, I may get into it a lot). Another suggestion was a cheap 3rd party flash to accompany my speedlight, and a couple of cheap brollies, but I'm not overly keen on the brolly idea as I want more control of the light so would prefer softboxes. But then how much do you spend on softboxes, as for 60-80cm ones you can pay from £20 to several hundred pounds? Do I go cheap as possible, or would something like this prove to be significantly better, but not breaking the bank?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PhotoSEL-SB...d=1449408778&sr=8-3&keywords=photosel+softbox

I have got it in my head that I'd like at least two lights as I'd really like to master bottles now as I've already started trying these, but I am seriously contemplating a suggestion from AVF which is one light such as the SmartFlash 2 with a softbox like the one above, a simple backdrop, and maybe even a modifier, learn with this and then maybe at some point buy a second to complement it. Talking of backdrops, is something like this adequate or is it likely to fall apart in weeks?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DUR81...olid=2PIJAE5D1ZZT1&coliid=I4HA3A1HT3WWF&psc=1

As you can see I have a lot of different ideas swarming round my head, and it's making it spin tbh so any advice would be welcomed. I do like the idea of a studio light as I find it useful to see where the light's falling to be able to position the light, rather than position it, take a shot, move the light, take a shot, move the light etc etc. Also, I was advised on AVF that a speedlight wouldn't be able to provide enough power to light a large softbox properly. However, I am still open to the idea of flash still as it's a quick relatively cheap way of getting two light sources from the get go. Plus I can increase ISO a bit to compensate for the lack of power as the D750 is a bit of an ISO monster. For those that use flash, how do you get around the positioning of the light, is it just a case of position and shoot and then readjust if necessary? I managed to come up with these the other day using one of these ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dizaul-Batt...8&qid=1449409439&sr=8-2&keywords=stick+on+LED) diffused with a piece of kitchen roll But it was handy to move the torch around and see where the light was falling prior to taking the shot.


DSC_5357 by TDG-77, on Flickr

PC033856 by TDG-77, on Flickr

OK, so far from the best you'll ever see, but one of my first attempts and using a cheap LED light

As I said, any help/advice would be appreciated.

 

[simonbarker]

I tried taking a photo of a rum bottle and failed miserably, but was put onto a really useful book and video on how to light bottles and it quickly became apparent that my equipment is severely lacking So I've been looking into some better lighting. As it's only for a bit of fun, and I'm not sure how much I'd use it I don't want to spend a lot, but at the same time I really hate working with rubbish equipment that proves to be such a PITA to use it spoils the fun. I did see this kit on amazon but the folk over on AVF said that it would be cheap rubbish, and won't be very good.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B010V4OZ...1ZZT1&coliid=I3FLQ3SK4ZMPPK&psc=1&tag=av0c-21

They're correct, it's cheap crap. However even if you only use the backdrop and stands it's still cheap but they're only really good for the lightest of usage. It's tricky though, if you end up using it even moderately you'd be better served looking elsewhere but if you're only going to dabble spending more is a waste.

The best option suggested was a couple of Lencarta SmartFlash 2's and large-ish softboxes, but this would work out expensive for something that might not get all that much use (although you never know, I may get into it a lot). Another suggestion was a cheap 3rd party flash to accompany my speedlight, and a couple of cheap brollies, but I'm not overly keen on the brolly idea as I want more control of the light so would prefer softboxes. But then how much do you spend on softboxes, as for 60-80cm ones you can pay from £20 to several hundred pounds? Do I go cheap as possible, or would something like this prove to be significantly better, but not breaking the bank?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PhotoSEL-SB...d=1449408778&sr=8-3&keywords=photosel+softbox

The Lencarta kit gets recommended because it's the cheapest 'good' studio head that has a warranty, you can actually get cheaper like a Godox DE300 but I wouldn't fancy them for warranty purposes.

I don't understand the reluctance to use Umbrellas (it's quite common), they're just another tool and they're probably the best cheap modifier available. A softbox offers more control of the light but an Umbrella would probably work better if you ever get a chance to do some portraits especially as you don't have the kind of budget a big softbox asks for.

That Photosel is actually pretty decent, it's got those god awful lanyard hooks for the inner diffuser but other than that you would notice no real difference from using it over a £200 Profoto softbox but I would probably lean towards a Bessel easy up softbox as there's no faffing about with assembly which is handy in a small home space: http://www.bessel.co.uk/acatalog/Speedbox-Softboxes.html

I have got it in my head that I'd like at least two lights as I'd really like to master bottles now as I've already started trying these, but I am seriously contemplating a suggestion from AVF which is one light such as the SmartFlash 2 with a softbox like the one above, a simple backdrop, and maybe even a modifier, learn with this and then maybe at some point buy a second to complement it. Talking of backdrops, is something like this adequate or is it likely to fall apart in weeks?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DUR81...olid=2PIJAE5D1ZZT1&coliid=I4HA3A1HT3WWF&psc=1

If you bought the Smartflash you would have two lights, your speedlight is a completely valid light source. Yes it's better to have nice studio heads with giant modifiers all using the same mounts so you can chop and change as you please but if your budget is an issue make use of what you already have, the Nikon should work happily as a slave to the studio head for simple duties.

That backdrop kit looks much like the other one, cheap lightweight stands with plastic spigots. They'll work fine with very light loads but they tend to get stiff after not much use and definitely not what you want for a heavy backdrop.

As you can see I have a lot of different ideas swarming round my head, and it's making it spin tbh so any advice would be welcomed. I do like the idea of a studio light as I find it useful to see where the light's falling to be able to position the light, rather than position it, take a shot, move the light, take a shot, move the light etc etc. Also, I was advised on AVF that a speedlight wouldn't be able to provide enough power to light a large softbox properly. However, I am still open to the idea of flash still as it's a quick relatively cheap way of getting two light sources from the get go. Plus I can increase ISO a bit to compensate for the lack of power as the D750 is a bit of an ISO monster. For those that use flash, how do you get around the positioning of the light, is it just a case of position and shoot and then readjust if necessary? I managed to come up with these the other day using one of these ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dizaul-Batt...8&qid=1449409439&sr=8-2&keywords=stick+on+LED) diffused with a piece of kitchen roll But it was handy to move the torch around and see where the light was falling prior to taking the shot.

It has enough power for a medium sized softbox (I'd personally considering anything around 80cm a medium sized modifier) assuming a fairly close distance and not too small an aperture but the problem is more so that it can't evenly light the modifier. Speedlights have a reflector and lens fitted to throw the light forward, perfect for lighting a subject at a distance but poor when trying to evenly fill a modifier as they're designed with a light source that fires in every direction for a more even distribution.

Try to remember, light is light so it doesn't matter how ghetto your light source is.

 

[snerkler]

They're correct, it's cheap crap. However even if you only use the backdrop and stands it's still cheap but they're only really good for the lightest of usage. It's tricky though, if you end up using it even moderately you'd be better served looking elsewhere but if you're only going to dabble spending more is a waste.



The Lencarta kit gets recommended because it's the cheapest 'good' studio head that has a warranty, you can actually get cheaper like a Godox DE300 but I wouldn't fancy them for warranty purposes.

I don't understand the reluctance to use Umbrellas (it's quite common), they're just another tool and they're probably the best cheap modifier available. A softbox offers more control of the light but an Umbrella would probably work better if you ever get a chance to do some portraits especially as you don't have the kind of budget a big softbox asks for.

That Photosel is actually pretty decent, it's got those god awful lanyard hooks for the inner diffuser but other than that you would notice no real difference from using it over a £200 Profoto softbox but I would probably lean towards a Bessel easy up softbox as there's no faffing about with assembly which is handy in a small home space: http://www.bessel.co.uk/acatalog/Speedbox-Softboxes.html



If you bought the Smartflash you would have two lights, your speedlight is a completely valid light source. Yes it's better to have nice studio heads with giant modifiers all using the same mounts so you can chop and change as you please but if your budget is an issue make use of what you already have, the Nikon should work happily as a slave to the studio head for simple duties.

That backdrop kit looks much like the other one, cheap lightweight stands with plastic spigots. They'll work fine with very light loads but they tend to get stiff after not much use and definitely not what you want for a heavy backdrop.



It has enough power for a medium sized softbox (I'd personally considering anything around 80cm a medium sized modifier) assuming a fairly close distance and not too small an aperture but the problem is more so that it can't evenly light the modifier. Speedlights have a reflector and lens fitted to throw the light forward, perfect for lighting a subject at a distance but poor when trying to evenly fill a modifier as they're designed with a light source that fires in every direction for a more even distribution.

Try to remember, light is light so it doesn't matter how ghetto your light source is.

Thanks, very useful. Do you have a recommendation for a better (but not silly price) backdrop?

I like your idea about using a lencarta and flash, I guess with a bit of fiddling I could get relatively equal light from both as I know for bottles equal light is important.

Excuse my lack of knowledge in this area, but when you say to use the flash as a slave are you saying I use a remote flash trigger (I don't like wires ) to fire the Lencarta and that in turn would fire the flash? Is this better than having 2 receivers, or can't you use these with flash?

 

[simonbarker]

Thanks, very useful. Do you have a recommendation for a better (but not silly price) backdrop?

Depends! It's all a question of what kind of background you want to use, I prefer seamless so for the cheapest set up I'd just get two stands and some j hooks with a cheap expander roll set to hold them up but assuming a light muslin I'd buy one of those crappy £15-30 backdrop kits.

I like your idea about using a lencarta and flash, I guess with a bit of fiddling I could get relatively equal light from both as I know for bottles equal light is important.

I was thinking more of the studio head acting as your key and the speedlight for fill, spot, hair light etc. You'll probably find the speedlight less than a perfect match if you intend to use it to match the look of a studio head on the opposite side of your subject. The advice to start with one light is good but if you're dead set on focusing on still life I'd recommend you consider the kit rather than buying individual bits, the cost of one head, a trigger, a couple of stands etc starts bringing you not a million miles away from what a 2 head kit with trigger, stands, umbrella and softbox would be.

Excuse my lack of knowledge in this area, but when you say to use the flash as a slave are you saying I use a remote flash trigger (I don't like wires ) to fire the Lencarta and that in turn would fire the flash? Is this better than having 2 receivers, or can't you use these with flash?

Nope, the SB-700 has an SU 4 mode which lets it be triggered by another flash firing so you only need to trigger one head and it should set off the other. I'd use the studio head to set off the rest as it's most likely to be your key light and easier to add a cheap radio trigger to.

 

[snerkler]

Depends! It's all a question of what kind of background you want to use, I prefer seamless so for the cheapest set up I'd just get two stands and some j hooks with a cheap expander roll set to hold them up but assuming a light muslin I'd buy one of those crappy £15-30 backdrop kits.



I was thinking more of the studio head acting as your key and the speedlight for fill, spot, hair light etc. You'll probably find the speedlight less than a perfect match if you intend to use it to match the look of a studio head on the opposite side of your subject. The advice to start with one light is good but if you're dead set on focusing on still life I'd recommend you consider the kit rather than buying individual bits, the cost of one head, a trigger, a couple of stands etc starts bringing you not a million miles away from what a 2 head kit with trigger, stands, umbrella and softbox would be.



Nope, the SB-700 has an SU 4 mode which lets it be triggered by another flash firing so you only need to trigger one head and it should set off the other. I'd use the studio head to set off the rest as it's most likely to be your key light and easier to add a cheap radio trigger to.

Thanks again, really useful.

 

[Phil V]

Thanks, very useful. Do you have a recommendation for a better (but not silly price) backdrop?

I like your idea about using a lencarta and flash, I guess with a bit of fiddling I could get relatively equal light from both as I know for bottles equal light is important.

Excuse my lack of knowledge in this area, but when you say to use the flash as a slave are you saying I use a remote flash trigger (I don't like wires ) to fire the Lencarta and that in turn would fire the flash? Is this better than having 2 receivers, or can't you use these with flash?

If you buy the Lencarta 2 head kit, it comes with its own trigger system. Unfortunately, it's not compatible with your speedlight.

To trigger your speedlight wirelessly too, is a bit of a faff, but not difficult. Do you have any triggers now?

 

[snerkler]

If you buy the Lencarta 2 head kit, it comes with its own trigger system. Unfortunately, it's not compatible with your speedlight.

To trigger your speedlight wirelessly too, is a bit of a faff, but not difficult. Do you have any triggers now?

Thanks. Nope, just using the CLS system.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I tried taking a photo of a rum bottle and failed miserably, but was put onto a really useful book and video on how to light bottles and it quickly became apparent that my equipment is severely lacking So I've been looking into some better lighting. As it's only for a bit of fun, and I'm not sure how much I'd use it I don't want to spend a lot, but at the same time I really hate working with rubbish equipment that proves to be such a PITA to use it spoils the fun. I did see this kit on amazon but the folk over on AVF said that it would be cheap rubbish, and won't be very good.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B010V4OZ...1ZZT1&coliid=I3FLQ3SK4ZMPPK&psc=1&tag=av0c-21

Yes, that kit is rubbish. But, if you failed miserably with a particular shot, then the failure will be much more down to lack of knowledge to lack of equipment, knowledge (and care) trumps equipment every time, and people who have the benefit of knowledge can usually manage with limited equipment - it just takes them longer than if they had the right stuff, and there are some shots where equipment is more important than others. Any lighting equipment though, regardless of build quality, light quality, colour rendition index, colour temperature or anything else, does need to be capable of being used with light shaping tools, and also needs to be capable of a fairly wide range of adjustment.

The best option suggested was a couple of Lencarta SmartFlash 2's and large-ish softboxes, but this would work out expensive for something that might not get all that much use (although you never know, I may get into it a lot). Another suggestion was a cheap 3rd party flash to accompany my speedlight, and a couple of cheap brollies, but I'm not overly keen on the brolly idea as I want more control of the light so would prefer softboxes. But then how much do you spend on softboxes, as for 60-80cm ones you can pay from £20 to several hundred pounds? Do I go cheap as possible, or would something like this prove to be significantly better, but not breaking the bank?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PhotoSEL-SB...d=1449408778&sr=8-3&keywords=photosel+softbox

OK, I just said that knowledge trumps gear, and it does - but the cheap flashes are just as bad as the cheap continuous lighting. Umbrellas are often under-appreciated, they can be incredibly useful for a lot of shoots, but they can also be a very bad choice for product-style shoots, it's pretty impossibile when the light source itself isn't flat, and is also unevenly lit - there's no point in making life hard for yourself by using tools that cannot produce the results you want. Generally, with softboxes you get exactly what you pay for, and there is a reason why some are dirt cheap.

I have got it in my head that I'd like at least two lights as I'd really like to master bottles now as I've already started trying these, but I am seriously contemplating a suggestion from AVF which is one light such as the SmartFlash 2 with a softbox like the one above, a simple backdrop, and maybe even a modifier, learn with this and then maybe at some point buy a second to complement it. Talking of backdrops, is something like this adequate or is it likely to fall apart in weeks?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DUR81...olid=2PIJAE5D1ZZT1&coliid=I4HA3A1HT3WWF&psc=1

Do you actually need a backdrop? Portraits, which at the moment you don't do, often do need something, but what you're talking about here is creative still life work, where everything is entirely under your control. Usually, a plain wall is all you need, at most. At the moment my studio is 3700 sq ft (it will be bigger soon) and I could put up a lot of different backdrops but I hardly ever do, I just use either a white or a grey one and, depending on the lighting, it will end up anywhere from pure white to pure black, or in any colour of my choice. If no light reaches the background, it will always end up black.

As you can see I have a lot of different ideas swarming round my head, and it's making it spin tbh so any advice would be welcomed. I do like the idea of a studio light as I find it useful to see where the light's falling to be able to position the light, rather than position it, take a shot, move the light, take a shot, move the light etc etc. Also, I was advised on AVF that a speedlight wouldn't be able to provide enough power to light a large softbox properly. However, I am still open to the idea of flash still as it's a quick relatively cheap way of getting two light sources from the get go. Plus I can increase ISO a bit to compensate for the lack of power as the D750 is a bit of an ISO monster. For those that use flash, how do you get around the positioning of the light, is it just a case of position and shoot and then readjust if necessary? I managed to come up with these the other day using one of these ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dizaul-Batt...8&qid=1449409439&sr=8-2&keywords=stick+on+LED) diffused with a piece of kitchen roll But it was handy to move the torch around and see where the light was falling prior to taking the shot.

It isn't about having enough power, it's all about hotshoe flashguns having a fixed reflector that doesn't distribute the light around the softbox, which means that the illumination is very uneven and that the size of the softbox is extremely restricted.

DSC_5357 by TDG-77, on Flickr

PC033856 by TDG-77, on Flickr

OK, so far from the best you'll ever see, but one of my first attempts and using a cheap LED light

You did well with those shots. LED lighting is usable with shots that basically don't include colour, and where any colour that is there doesn't need to be rendered accurately. But, when you start using studio flash, it will be light a breath of fresh air