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AliB

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and bought a compact! :D

I "see" photos all round me every day but I seriously can't go lugging a DSLR around all day, every day.

My stepdaughter complained last week because I didn't have my camera on me walking the dogs...... that's it. I do need a small camera.

Specification? Small, check, can take a decent pic, check. Can still give me control when I want it, check. Will shoot reasonably wide, check. And here was the compact killer.......will shoot half decently in low light without "horror" flash.......ermmm.....

So I got a Leica :love: And it's actually blooming fab, I'm in love with the midget gem. It's got an f2.0 lens and will shoot 24-60mm so spot on what I want. And it's teeny and came with Phase One software too. And it's built like a little tank but I did treat it to a decent case.

Oh I'm going to be loving this in the next few weeks :)

Because there are no pockets in shrouds and the interest rate is so pants I thought I might as well actually enjoy it!
 
Yep, it's a D-Lux-4 :)

Ok so it IS expensive for a compact but it fulfils what I wanted and I DID sell a 100-400mm Canon lens to fund that and an 85mm f1.8.

I've already got one belter out of it and I've only had it for a few hours and not been out the house with it!

Really looking forward to doing some architectural shots with it simply because I live near Manchester and it means I can take the camera with me on almost a permanent basis.
 
I'm GREEN with envy Ali... :D


And that can't be a bad thing for me now can it ... :LOL:



Seriously though... :cautious: ... if it came in Green I'd have one already... ;) ... lovely bit of kit so you just enjoy your new toy... (y)






:p
 
I did look at it too Tobers and there were a couple of little things that made my mind up. One was the way the Leica processes the images, the two cameras share a lens and body but the electronics are different. The Leica just seems to be able to reproduce those iconic Leica images that little bit better. The software is better and the looks of the camera in black is great. Added up, it made sense to me. :)

And thanks Ven, always good to hear from you :)
 
AliB said:
And thanks Ven, always good to hear from you :)
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Awww... :confused: ... thanx Ali... ;)

Although I should really be cursing you because you have rekindled my interest in this little gem and I have just spent all morning researching it... :shrug: ... again... :naughty:






:p
 
Tobers said:
Could have got that LX3 and saved £200, but you do have a red dot.

Whatever, it's a great little go-anywhere camera.
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I've looked a little at both of these and sadly, the LX just isn't quite as good. It was a pretty level playing field with the LX2 but I think that compared to the panny 3, Leica have made the difference much more worth while.

Congrats Ali, I've not coveted kit for a long(ish) time now but I really do want to trade up from the LX2.
 
I did the same a while ago Ali. I looked at both cameras and went with a Black LX3 that is lovely. It is with me most of the time and I have taken some pics that I wouldn't have got otherwise, particularly family pics. Someone bought me a stunning black leather case for it the otherday that is like the old ever ready cases that just flip down for you to get the shot. It looks very retro.

I think you are right and the D-Lux-4 is slightly better in a few ways but for me the LX3 does the biz for what I need and I have been really impressed with it.

Enjoy!

Chris :)
 
I try never to forget having my little Canon Powershot in my pocket when I go out.

IQ is remarkable. P&S cameras are excellent value.
 
If it's any consolation Ven, I spent a week pondering and researching. :)

Amazing difference in pricing out there though so if you ARE thinking of getting one do shop around. Amazingly ebay provides the worst pricing anywhere, over £600 is common.

I got a deal on mine from my local Leica dealer £525 with a black leather case and a 4G card.

It's an amazing little beastie :)
 
AliB said:
I did look at it too Tobers and there were a couple of little things that made my mind up. One was the way the Leica processes the images, the two cameras share a lens and body but the electronics are different. The Leica just seems to be able to reproduce those iconic Leica images that little bit better. The software is better and the looks of the camera in black is great. Added up, it made sense to me.
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Could you point me at any technical details about the image processing?

I was just about set on the LX3.....
 
AliB said:
If it's any consolation Ven, I spent a week pondering and researching. :)

It's an amazing little beastie :)
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You are NOT helping at all Ali... :cautious:



AliD-Lux said:
difference in pricing out there though so if you ARE thinking of getting one do shop around. Amazingly ebay provides the worst pricing anywhere, over £600 is common.

I got a deal on mine from my local Leica dealer £525 with a black leather case and a 4G card.
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Thanx for that though... :D ... always useful jic... :naughty:

And that is a pretty damn fine price too... :eek:




:p
 
Voyager said:
Could you point me at any technical details about the image processing?

I was just about set on the LX3.....
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Then stick with the LX3.

They are exactly the same camera internally. All that's different is the exteriors and the default processing values for JPEGs.

You're paying extra for the red dot, the name, the resale value and the RAW processing software.
 
And the RAW file is different now too. On the previous model the cameras shared RAW file processing but Leica now use their own which is the reason it comes supplied with the Phase 1 software rather than the Panasonic's silkypix.

Oh and you get twice the warranty with the Leica. :)

The different processors, resale, warranty and software added the extra value for me shich is why I decided to get it.
 
It is a lovely thing, and I freely admit to wanting one. Lucky man/woman Ali :)

But I don't kid myself that it will take pictures that are in any meaningful way better than the Pano, and if it had Casio written on it I would not want it at all.

Edit: He's a girl - sorry Ali!
 
You're not wrong there Hoppy, the LX3 and the Canon G9/G10 were also on my list and all of them are very, very capable cameras. I just preferred the Leica and I'll be the first to admit that some of that IS down to the aesthetics. The Canon is a fab camera and being a Canon user I should be familiar with how it works, yet I didn't take to it as I did the Leica.

It's exactly the reason I always, always advise people new to photography to go and handle a camera before they buy. That advice carries over to seasoned, battle hardened togs too. And I just fell in love with the little Leica. :)
 
glitch said:
Then stick with the LX3.

They are exactly the same camera internally. All that's different is the exteriors and the default processing values for JPEGs.
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As I have done some research that is what I understand - but I asked if there was a link to comparing the technical specs and you don't seem to have any.
glitch said:
You're paying extra for the red dot, the name, the resale value and the RAW processing software.
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In your opinion and not backed up by any evidence. Fantastic.
 
AliB said:
And the RAW file is different now too. On the previous model the cameras shared RAW file processing but Leica now use their own which is the reason it comes supplied with the Phase 1 software rather than the Panasonic's silkypix.
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The reason it comes with the Phase 1 software is that at the time of release it was the only software that could open RWL files. However you can now open RWL files natively in ACR 5.3 and LR 2.3.

The only difference between the RWL files from the Leica and the RW2 from the Panasonic is the filename. They are processed by the same internal hardware and software from the same sensor which sits behind the same lens in the same body. Only the externals and packaging are different.

You obviously feel that paying extra for the Leica was the right decision and that's fine as it was your decision to make. And I certainly don't want to seem as if I'm belittling that decision. But it's very misleading to suggest that there's any real difference between the capabilities of the two cameras, especially when it might prompt people to spend money that they don't need to.

For the extra £200 you'll spend on the Leica people get a sleeker exterior, a brown leather strap, some Phase 1 RAW software and a longer warranty. And if that's worth the extra to them, I've got no complaints.

But it's the same camera underneath.
 
Voyager said:
As I have done some research that is what I understand - but I asked if there was a link to comparing the technical specs and you don't seem to have any.
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Obviously not enough research. Tech specs are the easiest thing to find.

Voyager said:
In your opinion and not backed up by any evidence. Fantastic.
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Just over an hour and a half ago you were 'just about set on the LX3' but now you're having a pop at me which presumably means you're thinking about the Leica?

If that's the case, go find your own evidence.
 
We just bought our first compact from Flash in the Pan a Ricoh and it is brill....it will save BT taking her DSLR out when I am at work so really a good buy for us and only £25 delivered NEW
 
glitch said:
Obviously not enough research. Tech specs are the easiest thing to find.
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Can you find a meaningful technical comparison then? I can find users (or wannabie buyers) opinions which - although interesting are not what I was asking for.
glitch said:
Just over an hour and a half ago you were 'just about set on the LX3' but now you're having a pop at me which presumably means you're thinking about the Leica?

If that's the case, go find your own evidence.
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But I am not interested in your 'opinion'. I was asking AliB if they knew about some comparison spec, as they wrote that 'the way the Leica processes the images' and that 'the electronics are different' as that is something I haven't seen anywhere 'officially'.
 
It's a Leica, it is styled by Leica and has a red dot on it. You can get a brown leather flip front case for it. I am Cartier-Bresson.

I also believe that the D-Lux-4 takes pictures that are indistinguishable from a Pano LX3, but I still prefer the Leica, and would be prepared to pay the extra - daft as that may sound from any objective standpoint.

I also think that the D-Lux-4 is the spiritual successor to the classic rangefinder M-Series Leicas. Much more so than that rag-bag of mismatched components, the ludicrously priced and horrendously flawed Leica M8.

I bet I know which one Cartier-bresson would prefer using, especially with the accessory viewfinder attached. It's just a beautiful thing to use and to own, in every sense. And it takes fantastic pictures - great lens, excellent screen, good low-light performance. One guy I know says his Nikon DSLR outfit is now heading for ebay :eek:
 
Voyager said:
Can you find a meaningful technical comparison then? I can find users (or wannabie buyers) opinions which - although interesting are not what I was asking for.
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What exactly are you expecting? Someone to have taken the two cameras apart and examined the internals?

The technical specifications for both cameras are identical. Even if you can't find any direct comparisons, just go and look at the specs on the Leica and Panasonic websites.

Voyager said:
But I am not interested in your 'opinion'.
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It's not my opinion, it's fact.

Voyager said:
I was asking AliB if they knew about some comparison spec, as they wrote that 'the way the Leica processes the images' and that 'the electronics are different' as that is something I haven't seen anywhere 'officially'.
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You won't see it officially as it's not something that could be proven, given that they are internally identical.
 
HoppyUK said:
I also believe that the D-Lux-4 takes pictures that are indistinguishable from a Pano LX3, but I still prefer the Leica, and would be prepared to pay the extra - daft as that may sound from any objective standpoint.
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Daft? Well, no, not really. If you want the Leica you'll buy the Leica.

Though it would be daft to buy the Leica over the LX3 because you thought it was a better camera.

HoppyUK said:
One guy I know says his Nikon DSLR outfit is now heading for ebay :eek:
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So he's giving all his Nikon kit up for a Leica compact camera?

Funnily enough that makes perfect sense.
 
glitch said:
What exactly are you expecting? Someone to have taken the two cameras apart and examined the internals?
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That is what I understood was being claimed... 'the electronics are different' apparently.
glitch said:
It's not my opinion, it's fact.
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No, 'You're paying extra for the red dot, the name, the resale value and the RAW processing software' is something I am well aware of and still just your opinion.

TBH I consider 'resale value' is a pretty marginal argument with electronic cameras anyway as the longer you keep it the more 'obsolete' it becomes. Eventually both cameras will be near worthless as newer models will have come along that out-perform them and cost less (as long as the photographic industry isn't credit-crunched to nothing!)
glitch said:
You won't see it officially as it's not something that could be proven, given that they are internally identical.
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Have I disagreed? I'm looking for something that supports either POV.
 
glitch said:
Though it would be daft to buy the Leica over the LX3 because you thought it was a better camera.
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Define 'better.' For me, it is whatever I feel best about using for the job, and I have no illusions about why I feel that way. Why do I have an expensive mechanical watch? Certainly not because it keeps superb time, that's a fact! On the other hand, I'm very happy using a LensBaby now and then, even though it's hardly L class in any sense.

But for anyone to claim that the D-Lux-4 has better image processing than the Lumix LX3, I think they would struggle to convince many people from a purely technical standpoint. If it was 'better' in that sense, you can be sure that it would be found in the LX3! But for some people, the very fact that it looks like a Leica and has a red dot on it, coupled to the undeniable truth that it is also class leading in terms of results, makes it an especial pleasure to use.

All the marketing stuff about the Leica version being better is so we can convince our partners that it really was worth the extra ;) :D
 
Voyager said:
That is what I understood was being claimed... 'the electronics are different' apparently.
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Well, good luck with proving that. Not that it matters anyway.

You've seen all the comparison shots, right? Even if the Leica does have a slightly different component, it sure isn't doing anything!

Voyager said:
No, 'You're paying extra for the red dot, the name, the resale value and the RAW processing software' is something I am well aware of and still just your opinion.
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No, that's what's known as fact.

The Leica is more expensive than the Panasonic. The Leica has a red dot, the name, the theoretical advantage for resale value, RAW processing software, a little leather wrist-strap and a slightly sleeker exterior. Given that the cameras are identical in every other way, you're paying for those things.

That's fact.

Voyager said:
TBH I consider 'resale value' is a pretty marginal argument with electronic cameras anyway as the longer you keep it the more 'obsolete' it becomes.
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Ah, but not with Leica's. There's scene tax to take into account.

Anyway, this is digressing to the point of almost being another topic. All that really matters is that AliB's happy with her Leica, and I'm sure the results will prove that, and that HoppyUK would buy the Leica over the Panasonic for that warm feeling inside.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I guess that's up to them.
 
Seems to me that it's just like paying extra for a designer label, which is probably something most of us have done from time to time - depending upon the prevailing state of the bank balance :) . At the bottom of this review, Michael Reichmann has a quote from an unnamed Leica source detailing the differences.
 
glitch said:
Well, good luck with proving that.
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But I'm not the one that is claiming that it is! I'm the one asking about it. :wacky:
glitch said:
You've seen all the comparison shots, right? Even if the Leica does have a slightly different component, it sure isn't doing anything!
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I'd agree. I'd concluded that I'd doubt if anyone could really tell one from another from the resultant images (everything being equal and all).
glitch said:
Given that the cameras are identical in every other way, you're paying for those things.
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I don't dispute it. But it is still personal opinion and not anything to do with 'technical details about the image processing' that I asked about.

I'm really not bothered about your opinion of a Leica over a Panasonic (or anyone else's TBH) I only wondered if AliB had some details about the 'the way the Leica processes the images' and that 'the electronics are different'. It really doesn't matter if they don't and clearly you are unable to help.
glitch said:
Ah, but not with Leica's. There's scene tax to take into account.
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OK. :bang:
 
keith.l said:
At the bottom of this review, Michael Reichmann has a quote from an unnamed Leica source detailing the differences.
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Thanks for that, although I had read the review I don't recall the comments about the Leica.

Can't see why I would want to disagree with them either.
 
http://www.neutralday.com/leica-d-lux-4-compact-system-digital-camera/

The RAW images use different extension and there are several complaints alleging poor green processing on the LX3 in some reviews I read (only on JPEGs)

Panasonic and Leica have a collaboration on this camera and neither of them are going to try to gain a commercial advantage over the other. It's business and that is exactly why you won't find them publishing anything about the differences.

And, at the end of the day, both produce the goods and I'm happy with the one I bought.

Very Happy. :)
 
Oh, just to add that it was £499 with the case at jacobs the other day.

Not that I've been close to the buy it button.


.....and you know what, even if they were to produce 100% identical files I think I could still be happy getting the leica, in this case. It feels great and if you get an extra little smile every time you get it out to use it, that's worth lots and even more importantly, you'll use it more often.
 
dazzajl said:
.....and you know what, even if they were to produce 100% identical files I think I could still be happy getting the leica, in this case. It feels great and if you get an extra little smile every time you get it out to use it, that's worth lots and even more importantly, you'll use it more often.
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(y)
And it's the using it more often that I bought it for. It can come with me when I'm out and about, I won't be afraid to use it and carry it around with me. I'm also keeping it handy at home and been having fun taking wide angle close up's of the puppy just for fun. :) Took it out on the dog walk today and the macro facility on it is terrific. So now I'm looking for fungi and fauna to snap. Oh this IS fun.

I'm smiling :)
 
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