Fuji x100

One day OVF's will be things we see on dusty old shelves in museums... EVF's are the future.

Having said all that... I used to think that I couldn't manage without an OVF but these days I think that such comments are made by people living in the past who have not tried the alternatives or maybe have tried but given up after too short a time and therefore haven't recognised the advantages of other systems.

While sat on a beach recently I deliberately tried to make my GF1 unusable and I couldn't, not even when making sue that the Sun was pointing directly at the back screen, the camera was entirely usable and allowed me to frame my shot accurately (100% view) without peering into a tunnel.
 
woof woof said:
One day OVF's will be things we see on dusty old shelves in museums... EVF's are the future.

Having said all that... I used to think that I couldn't manage without an OVF but these days I think that such comments are made by people living in the past who have not tried the alternatives or maybe have tried but given up after too short a time and therefore haven't recognised the advantages of other systems.

While sat on a beach recently I deliberately tried to make my GF1 unusable and I couldn't, not even when making sue that the Sun was pointing directly at the back screen, the camera was entirely usable and allowed me to frame my shot accurately (100% view) without peering into a tunnel.
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People used film cameras well after digital ones came out and there were good reasons for that. The same will happen, probably to a lesser extend, for OVFs/EVFs. I find the choppiness, washed out colours,lack of immediate response of current EVFs absolutely taking away from the experience of taking pictures. They may be good enough for you but not good enough for me, that does not necessarily mean I live in the past any more than it means you live in 2020 :) Glad you enjoy your GF1
 
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Honestly, you are behind the times (judging by your comments) and you're kidding yourself if you think that the best EVF aren't good enough for all but the most demanding of uses, possibly high speed but even here OVF SLR's have their faults, and black out.

As for the future... EVF's will get better and give YOU more than YOU ever got from ANY OVF.

Film days? Don't make me laugh. Have you actually used an old film camera? Many OVF on smaller cameras were / are laughably bad and the only OVF you'll currently find that are better than the best EVF's or back screens are on the higher end SLR's but they too will be caught and passed in the near future IMVHO.

Anyway, I thought we were talking "compacts" here and if we are the case for OVF's is convincing until you give the new stuff a try, something you don't seem willing to do, but in the future there'll be no reasonable argument even if there's a dubious one now. EVF's will simply be unarguably better. All IMVHO, but I'll take a gamble on who's more likely to be right.
 
All I said is that currently OVFs are better than EVFs generally, the same way film cameras used to be better than the very first digital ones.

Of course EVFs will take over in the future. I just don't think they are good enough currently.

BTW try not to make that many assumptions in your posts, not very good base for a civilised argument.
 
Have to agree that EVF have some way to go yet, even the one in the X100.

That's the beauty of that camera, isn't it? Best of both at the current state of development?

If I had/get one, it would be on optical most of the time, then electronic when you need all that info or shooting close ups.
 
woof woof said:
One day OVF's will be things we see on dusty old shelves in museums... EVF's are the future.

Having said all that... I used to think that I couldn't manage without an OVF but these days I think that such comments are made by people living in the past who have not tried the alternatives or maybe have tried but given up after too short a time and therefore haven't recognised the advantages of other systems.

While sat on a beach recently I deliberately tried to make my GF1 unusable and I couldn't, not even when making sue that the Sun was pointing directly at the back screen, the camera was entirely usable and allowed me to frame my shot accurately (100% view) without peering into a tunnel.
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I think my GF1 is great too- but out in the bright sunshine, I find the rear screen is near unusable without shading it somehow. Or are you talking about using the EVF in the sun- which of course would work as they do on DSLR's?
 
Never really used an OVF on a rangefinder type film camera, always had an slr so I can't really pass any judgement on them I'm afraid.

I do know that I would rather use the rear screen than the EVF on my Panny GF1, the EVF was vile, poor quality, low resolution and didn't deserve the real estate on the camera :puke:.

One day EVF's will get there but its a long way off at the moment, they need a much higher resolution and better colour rendering. If they could have shrunk the rear LCD of the GF1 down and stuck it in the EVF it might have been ok.

Personally I love the idea behind a hybrid, crystal clear, bright with all the information overlaid HUD style but... it is limited to fixed or limited focal length cameras.

My X100 is on order and tbh, I'm really looking forward to owning it, I had a Sigma DP1 and I'm hoping the X100 is all the DP1 should have been and lots more. :)
 
vrapan said:
All I said is that currently OVFs are better than EVFs generally, the same way film cameras used to be better than the very first digital ones.

Of course EVFs will take over in the future. I just don't think they are good enough currently.

BTW try not to make that many assumptions in your posts, not very good base for a civilised argument.
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I haven't made any assumptions so God knows what you've read... and there's no point in attempting to argue with you so I'm not attempting too. I'm just suggesting that you are probably wrong today and will be more so in the future.

If the current crop of evils aren't for you then they may well be in the future but the very least you could do is give them a fair try rather than write them off with sweeping and IMVHO inaccurate generalisations as you and others here have tended to do to a greater or lesser degree, often without even trying the cameras.
 
chopchop said:
I think my GF1 is great too- but out in the bright sunshine, I find the rear screen is near unusable without shading it somehow. Or are you talking about using the EVF in the sun- which of course would work as they do on DSLR's?
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I used my GF1 in very bright sunshine on the beach a couple of days ago (Belgium) with the sun shining directly onto the screen, and it was still ok. Lost a bit of course, and not as visible as in a dim room but it was still perfectly fine and I was able to frame the shot.
 
woof woof said:
One day OVF's will be things we see on dusty old shelves in museums... EVF's are the future.

Having said all that... I used to think that I couldn't manage without an OVF but these days I think that such comments are made by people living in the past who have not tried the alternatives or maybe have tried but given up after too short a time and therefore haven't recognised the advantages of other systems.

While sat on a beach recently I deliberately tried to make my GF1 unusable and I couldn't, not even when making sue that the Sun was pointing directly at the back screen, the camera was entirely usable and allowed me to frame my shot accurately (100% view) without peering into a tunnel.
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Dear God, I honestly hope not!! :eek:

I cant stand EVF's. I've yet to use one that doesn't make me want to throw the camera on the ground and stamp on it. I hated the EVF on my old Fuji, and other bridge cameras and it was in utter despair that I saw Sony implement them into their Alpha range, and seeing them re-appear with the advent of EVILs. And yes I have used a modern one, in some EVILs and the A55.

Even the best EVFs are very poor IMO, and an EVF can never be as good as an OVF as you are effectively only limited by the resolution of your own eyes. How can a limited electronic digital representation of what the processor thinks you should see be better than what you can see through the lens with your own eye?!

And as vrapan says, I too find EVFs take away some of my enjoyment when i am actually using the camera.

I personally hope they never become the norm.

That said the hybrid in the x100 is very nice, but that uses an overlay on an rangefinder type OVF. Thats why its good.
 
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Calm down, you assumed never gave a fair try to an EVF, had a GF1 with the accessory for a couple weeks. Also have played with a friend's A55. Neither is good enough.

And as I said yeap you are right. EVFs one day will be there and I will be owning a few cameras with them but not today.
 
...oh, and try shooting fast moving sports with an EVF without throwing the damn thing at a wall.

Dont even bother with any indoor sport.
 
I would rather look at my EVF in my G1 all day long compared to the OVf that i used when i had the 450D.
 
The G1 has the best EVF I've tried (A33, GX100, GF1 and a few others) but even it is poor compared to a good OVF ( leica rangefinder, full frame digital, nikon f4).

I could live with a good one on a second camera but would much rather use a quality optical viewfinder, the M8 was brilliant to use because of the rangefinder and my current camera (1Ds) is much more pleasant to compose pictures with than any of the EVFs I've tried.

Getting back on track, I'd have the Fuji in a heartbeat if I had the cash spare, really like the idea of a fixed 35mm with OVF, good IQ and small size...
 
matt b said:
I would rather look at my EVF in my G1 all day long compared to the OVf that i used when i had the 450D.
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Even the best EVF won't match a standard OVF, unless you are able to change the law of physics!!

But back to the x100, and as good as it is, almost £1k for a fixed 35mm? Hmmmmm.....
 
there are no competition. purely for street photography.
but I would much rather spend 2k on 5D set-up , to get myself sorted in all areas - video, FF, af , variety of lenses etc before spending 1k on x100 . but - oh ! I so want that camera !
 
Starastin said:
there are no competition. purely for street photography.
but I would much rather spend 2k on 5D set-up , to get myself sorted in all areas - video, FF, af , variety of lenses etc before spending 1k on x100 . but - oh ! I so want that camera !
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You know that for 2k you can get a very nice M8 and a CV 35mm F1.4 to go on it. Leicas, they're not just for millionaires and street photographers you know.
 
ElGuiri said:
You know that for 2k you can get a very nice M8 and a CV 35mm F1.4 to go on it. Leicas, they're not just for millionaires and street photographers you know.
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I wish you could change it to M9 in 2 years time ! :naughty:

but the point was - I would need a set up that could easily do any job before I would and spend 1k on a street toy.

M9 would be marvellous, but the price is too high to even consider it. :|
 
odd jim said:
Even the best EVF won't match a standard OVF, unless you are able to change the law of physics!!

But back to the x100, and as good as it is, almost £1k for a fixed 35mm? Hmmmmm.....
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I had a GF1, the 20mm and the EVF, that worked out to not far off the X100

I also had the 14-45 and the 45-200, but they stayed in the bag never to be used, so I might as well have had a fixed focal length.

Fuji say the have optimised the sensor to the lens, so in theory this should be the perfect combination, whether it is time will tell :)

Just wish mine would hurry up, the money is burning a hole and I'm tempted by a 135mm L :)
 
There are people using old OVFs with the GF1 and 20mm lens. You can get this combo for around half the price of the x100 now.

I wonder if those slagging off EVFs have actually used the one on the G1/GH2 etc though?

The high ISO performance of the x100 is the only selling point for me.
 
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grum said:
There are people using old OVFs with the GF1 and 20mm lens. You can get this combo for around half the price of the x100 now.

I wonder if those slagging off EVFs have actually used the one on the G1/GH2 etc though?

The high ISO performance of the x100 is the only selling point for me.
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ah but what do you do if you want to use an external flash? ;)
 
grum said:
There are people using old OVFs with the GF1 and 20mm lens. You can get this combo for around half the price of the x100 now.

I wonder if those slagging off EVFs have actually used the one on the G1/GH2 etc though?

The high ISO performance of the x100 is the only selling point for me.
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I've used those, the only big one I havnt used in the flesh is the x100 but thats not an EVF, its a rangefinder hybrid which is much different.

I have yet to use an EVF that can match the clarity and ease of use of an OVF, and most wern't even fit for purpose IMO and I don't really think it has moved on massively since the bridge cameras of 10 years ago... For a P&S I think they are OK, anything more than that, no thanks.

The x100 is the ideal compromise IMO and very clever.
 
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AndyWest said:
If you go for the 17mm f2.8 there is a OVF that is suited to it so i'm lead to believe. http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/21693_pen-camera_vf-1_21795.htm
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I know that I now will just sound like a miserable sod that is not happy with anything but 2.8 is too slow and having to top up 100£ on one lens so I can get an OVF on just 17mm is a bit pointless if I am honest... Of course you will argue that the X100 has an OVF just for 24mm or whatever it is - thus my reluctance to jump and buy one.

I think the camera is what it is and if what it is does the trick then it is a brilliant camera, I just don't know that I can justify 1k on a one trick pony so to speak - yes versatile pony but one trick it is.
 
vrapan said:
I know that I now will just sound like a miserable sod that is not happy with anything but 2.8 is too slow and having to top up 100£ on one lens so I can get an OVF on just 17mm is a bit pointless if I am honest... Of course you will argue that the X100 has an OVF just for 24mm or whatever it is - thus my reluctance to jump and buy one.

I think the camera is what it is and if what it is does the trick then it is a brilliant camera, I just don't know that I can justify 1k on a one trick pony so to speak - yes versatile pony but one trick it is.
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Fair points well made!
Have you handled the X100? I was going to sell both kidnesy, my spleen and my kids to buy one when it was 1st announced then i kinda went off it as i thought it could not be as good as it looks but after playing with one i'm pretty sold on it. 24mm is my favoured focal length but never as versatile as a DSLR or CSC, or even a decent compact. ISO is supposed to be awesome!
 
No I haven't but I would have loved to. Nobody around me stocks them at the moment will definitely have a play once I can find one.
 
vrapan said:
No I haven't but I would have loved to. Nobody around me stocks them at the moment will definitely have a play once I can find one.
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Don't do it... put the Fuji down and step away from the counter...

you will regret it :LOL:


That's just how I ended up with one on order!
 
odd jim said:
I've used those, the only big one I havnt used in the flesh is the x100 but thats not an EVF, its a rangefinder hybrid which is much different.

I have yet to use an EVF that can match the clarity and ease of use of an OVF, and most wern't even fit for purpose IMO and I don't really think it has moved on massively since the bridge cameras of 10 years ago... For a P&S I think they are OK, anything more than that, no thanks.

The x100 is the ideal compromise IMO and very clever.
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You have not tried it yet but are already saying it's the ideal compromise:shrug:.
 
matt b said:
You have not tried it yet but are already saying it's the ideal compromise:shrug:.
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Yes, from an engineering point of view. Because it uses an OVF for the image, with the information overlayed onto the OVF. To me that's the ideal compromise.

Why do you have an issue with me saying that? It's not like you need to have used it to understand that. I'd like that system on my 50d.
 
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Different market, but the Fuji HS10 has dropped bu more than a third in less than 12 months......
 
odd jim said:
Why do you have an issue with me saying that? It's not like you need to have used it to understand that. I'd like that system on my 50d.
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Why did you have a problem with me saying i would rather use the G1 EVF than the OVF in the 450D. Please don't think i am having a go at you, i'm not. It's just that i would not comment on something that i have not tried.
 
matt b said:
Why did you have a problem with me saying i would rather use the G1 EVF than the OVF in the 450D. Please don't think i am having a go at you, i'm not. It's just that i would not comment on something that i have not tried.
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I never said I had a problem with that! Each to their own and all that. I'm talking from an engineering perspective when I refer to the x100. Clearly they decided that they didn't want the limitations of an EVF so came up with a very good solution which I think will work very well.

I've tried the EVF in the g1, and I said I didnt like it. I've said the x100 seems to be very good in the way it's implemented. I'm hoping to have a play with one this week so I'll let you know what it's like!
 
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