GCSE Photography - My daughter - Camera

Ruffy

Ruffy

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Hi, my daughter has decided to take GCSE Photography which I am of course very pleased about, she has come home from school with a list of essential and optional equipment that she will need, they have stated a Nikon 5500 range but seeing as I am Canon man, it would make sense for her to have a Canon.

I have Googled to see what the Canon equivelent is but i am not getting a very clear answer lol.

She already owns a Canon 40D and could do with an upgrade...thoughts on an equvelent to the above mentioned Nikon ???

Kind Regards
 
I'd day something along the lines of the Canon 750D would be comparable to the D5500
 
Do the school have any equipment that they will be using? If so, do they only have Nikon gear? Altho I admit it makes sense to buy Canon for her so you can teach her a few tricks using the camera etc and can use some of your gear (if you let her).
 
badboy1984 said:
Do the school have any equipment that they will be using? If so, do they only have Nikon gear? Altho I admit it makes sense to buy Canon for her so you can teach her a few tricks using the camera etc and can use some of your gear (if you let her).
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Not sure, but yes, that's the plan...she can use some of my stuff and I know my way around a Canon lol
 
ecoleman said:
Why does it have to be a specific camera. Is the course teaching photography or how to use a specific camera.

The 40D is a very capable camera.
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Oh I agree, it's just a recommendation...I have said that I would upgrade her camera so was just seeking some advice.
 
Ruffy said:
Hi, my daughter has decided to take GCSE Photography which I am of course very pleased about, she has come home from school with a list of essential and optional equipment that she will need, they have stated a Nikon 5500 range but seeing as I am Canon man, it would make sense for her to have a Canon.

Kind Regards
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I'd see the camera recommendation as very limiting.

IMO mirrorless is the future and I assume we'll see more mirrorless technology and video in cameras and in use in the various parts of the photographic/video world so personally I'd encourage anyone looking to get into photography to at least get some familiarity with mirrorless as I'd imagine that learning on an optical DSLR could leave a student waaaaay behind the competition in the marketplace.

I do appreciate that DSLR's have liveview and video too these days but maybe the better mirrorless options are ahead in these areas.

If a mid level APS-C Canikon set up is the expected choice I'd be asking if a mirrorless alternative is acceptable too.
 
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holty said:
probably want kids to get a nikon so they have half a chance of getting some half decent shots :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
take it with a pinch of salt had to be said
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Or they could get a Canon, and have every chance of getting some totally decent shots! :p ;):LOL::LOL:

Had to be said, with a pinch of salt, right back at you! :D

Nikon v Canon jokes and banter aside, I wish the OP's daughter all the very best with her GCSE photography course. (y) Don't forget the Film and Conventional section on here if she needs any help or info if they study film photography during the course.
 
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I think it's a little unfair that a school can list essential equipment that clearly has a value that could put many parents in an awkward position with their children. Not all families can afford such things and mandatory education should not cost a parent anything beyond the essentials of pens, pencils, uniform and PE kit.

To list an D5500 I personally feel is disgusting. What about D3200, older D40/D60s? They are nikon, with nikon mounts. If the tutor feels that their knowledge is so limited that a singular brand is the only option then I'd be asking the school to perhaps evaluate the staff under their employ.

Schools get funding. If they feel they want to run GCSE photography then they should provide pool cameras and lenses to be used and returned each lesson just as IT provides computers, laptops and tablets.

If they don't want to provide the generic kit which is required in order to teach photography then they shouldnt be listing it as an option.

Nikon D40, Canon 40D, Olympus E400 all with 24-70 equivalent glass and perhaps an 50mm equivalent in my opinion would be more than sufficient and wouldn't be too taxing on most parents although this could still be too much for the less fortunate.

The child should be learning about ISO, white balance, Shutter speed, aperture etc as well as working with different lighting conditions. Having a huge amount of mega pixels, an vast ISO range, live view and possibly video shouldn't be needed. These cameras were state of the art when they were launched and did a more than commendable job at that time which means they still can.

I know this is probably quite a negative post but if we look at it objectively and remove our subjective views due to our passion for the subject it really is rather cheeky for a school to even make such a suggestion.

They don't list that "pens" are required and then specify a Parker over something such as Bic as most parents would tell the school to get knotted.
 
Its unfair. biased and a bit stupid short sighted and whatever of the school to list a certain camera.. we all agree its wrong........... However i think your very brave on your daughters behalf to send her to class with a canon if everyone else turns up with a nikon 5500 as instructed :)
 
What's the lowest level Canon model you would want to use? If it's better than the one you have I suggest *you* upgrade and donate your camera to her progression.
 
KIPAX said:
Its unfair. biased and a bit stupid short sighted and whatever of the school to list a certain camera.. we all agree its wrong........... However i think your very brave on your daughters behalf to send her to class with a canon if everyone else turns up with a nikon 5500 as instructed :)
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I believe in post 6 it was clarified as "suggested minimum"... But it would have been much better worded as something like "ICL camera with full manual controls." TBF though, it is very hard to be fluent in several brands of cameras and the multitude of levels... students aren't going to find "I'm sure it's in the manual" very helpful, especially when they are paying for the guidance/training.
 
sk66 said:
I believe in post 6 it was clarified as "suggested minimum"... But it would have been much better worded as something like "ICL camera with full manual controls." TBF though, it is very hard to be fluent in several brands of cameras and the multitude of levels... students aren't going to find "I'm sure it's in the manual" very helpful, especially when they are paying for the guidance/training.
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i suppose it depends how savvy the students are walking into the course first day.... we would all turn up with what we thought approrpiate.. but can anyone remeber what its like knowing nothing about cameras.. its only 15 yrs ago for me and i cant really :)
 
ps i dont actually think every student will turn up with a nikon 5500 and one with a canon ....... but the scenario does jump out :)
 
Whilst the OP says Nikon D5200 it doesnt say whether it's listed on the essential or optional list. I fully understand students should not be made to buy expensive equipment to complete the course (when I did design technology the school provided all the tools required).

I know someone who's child is currently doing GCSE photography, the school does provide everything to complete the gcse (cameras, lenses, tripods, filters, bags, computers, software etc), and they did say a camera was optional and not necessary. They advise parents if they wanted to purchase a camera an entry level canon would be best as 1/ they only provide canon cameras and lenses and 2/ having students with different makes could create confusion as each manufacturer has their own name for each function. Imagine trying to teach 30 students to set the focus settings required for different types of photography if the students had a mixture of canon, Fuji, Olympus, Nikon, pentax, Sony, Panasonic cameras, and no doubt a possible mix of compacts, bridge and DSLRs if parents purchased without any advice at all.
 
Hang on a minute! Do the words 'or similar' appear after the camera make and model specified, and is this on the 'essential' or 'optional' list? Perhaps best to clear this up before too many people start 'lighting their torches and heading for Castle Frankenstein'?! ;)
 
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Mr Badger said:
Hang on a minute! Do the words 'or similar' appear after the camera make and model specified, and is this on the 'essential' or 'optional' list? Perhaps best to clear this up before too many people start 'lighting their torches and heading for Castle Frankenstein'?! ;)
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personally i reply to what people actually post.. otherwise you ahve to question every post on the forum to amke sure its right :)

Ruffy said:
they have stated a Nikon 5500 range
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KIPAX said:
personally i reply to what people actually post.. otherwise you ahve to question every post on the forum to amke sure its right :)
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@Mr Badger is correct the OP said Nikon 5500 range but does not say which list it was in. Quote from post 1: 'She has come home from school with a list of essential and optional equipment that she will need, they have stated a Nikon 5500 range',

To be honest I wouldn't have thought they would likely pick up a camera for a few months as they would be learning the basics. The Canon 40D she already has is probably enough to start with and likely to be more than many of the students have (many are likely to have no camera at all). I think the usual forum advice for beginners needs to be given here, don't buy anything until you know you have a need for it otherwise you are likely to be wasting your money on something that either of no use or wrong.
 
I would be interested to see what they think is essential and optional. :thinking: ;)

I can see the point of everyone having similar cameras, at least for making things slightly easier for the Teacher, ;) :rolleyes: but only if it is optional. I think a spread of cameras of different levels, types and ages gives the people on the course, and the Teacher, the chance to contrast and compare different cameras and their features, performance and technology. And also to maybe confirm their present camera choice, or give them a better idea of the best camera for them in the future.

I agree the 750D is of a similar level to the D5***.

Some older cameras may overlap in features with newer lower level cameras as features trickle down the ranges, but generally for crop sensor DSLRs they match up roughly like this;
Nikon D3*** = Canon ****D
Nikon D5*** = Canon ***D
Nikon D7*** = Canon **D
Nikon D3**/5** = Canon 7D/7DII

I think Canon and Nikon purposely try not match each others cameras exactly for features, just to muddy the water a bit. ;)
 
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My daughter did her higher photography without going for ger GCSE. Her school had Cannon equipment of a very old and low spec and in very poor condition. My daughter got to borrow my Nikon D700 and didnt find it hard relating to the differences between the Cannon/Nikon set ups.

Her school teacher was the art teacher who was asked to run the course and who had only just completed a college course of 6 weeks to let ger teach the kids photography and she never knew anything more than using a point and shoot at weddings before the college course. I ended up getting the course notes the school handed out and taught my daughter myself. I let her use some pro lenses and the D700 on a subject she picked herself. Happily she got a high grade "A" on the higher.

The better equipment defo helped but the wanting to learn helps just as much. If your child uses Cannon and the school uses Nikon then just be on hand to show them the equivelent set up on the camera they are using.
 
Camera brand shouldn't make a difference on learning how to photography. The ISO, white balance, aperture, shutter speed knowledge is same whether you use canon, nikon or mirrorless.

Should be teaching the kids how to use film camera with 50mm lens and that teach them how to think/compose and shoot. The trap in digital photograpahy is you get that mentality or bad habbit of shooting everything and try to fix in post and pick the best one out of the 100 photo you taken.
 
badboy1984 said:
The trap in digital photograpahy is you get that mentality or bad habbit of shooting everything and try to fix in post and pick the best one out of the 100 photo you taken.
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Isn't that what you're supposed to do? :LOL:
 
My son will also being doing GCSE photography. He has not been given a list(as of yet), but, the recommendation for a minimum camera was that it had to be at least 12 megapixels(for printing at A3) and preferably with a zoom lens. The course does state that a mobile phone would be adequate for now though.
He will be using my Fuji XT1 or X Pro 1.
 
badboy1984 said:
Camera brand shouldn't make a difference on learning how to photography. The ISO, white balance, aperture, shutter speed knowledge is same whether you use canon, nikon or mirrorless.

Should be teaching the kids how to use film camera with 50mm lens and that teach them how to think/compose and shoot. The trap in digital photograpahy is you get that mentality or bad habbit of shooting everything and try to fix in post and pick the best one out of the 100 photo you taken.
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Film is a very slow and expensive way to learn imho. They should be taught to use the gear they have now properly, and maybe they don't get into the mentality of fixing this later. ;) They should be taught what is possible to do in post production though.

I was doing a class in a local school recently and they had some of the GCSE Photography classes images on the walls. Some were very imaginative in their use of Photoshop.
 
redhed17 said:
Film is a very slow and expensive way to learn imho. They should be taught to use the gear they have now properly, and maybe they don't get into the mentality of fixing this later. ;) They should be taught what is possible to do in post production though.

I was doing a class in a local school recently and they had some of the GCSE Photography classes images on the walls. Some were very imaginative in their use of Photoshop.
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I guess the generations is different now. I was taught how to think about your shot and go compose for the shot, rather then turn your camera on and look for your shot. Shooting in film forces me to do that too, i guess I can't buy tons of film and go grab random shot because the process cost alot. This forces me to think, I still carry that mentality on digital. I go out with my Fuji with prime these days and pretty much only take 5-10 shots and 7-8 of them is what I want, the other 2-3 shots is not random photos, is just some test shot on the shot I want.
 
Before investing too much in new gear (and a 40D should be more than capable enough, certainly a better choice than any current entry-level model from any manufacturer) I'd check the syllabus to see just how much of the course will involve using the camera vs. theory and other activities.
 
the 40D is a good bit of kit.
upgrades, well the obvious is a 70D.
The biggest difference would be ISO handling and focusing points
However, for the purposes of learning photography, then the manual functionality is most important surely. It's just a tool and the 40D is a decent bit of kit.
If she's comfortable with it then great.
More importantly for me would be what else can she use with it? so lenses, speedlites, etc. If she can share kit with you (canon shooter) then stick with canon, don't reinvent the wheel.
For portability, then canon M mirrorless is portable and compatible with your stuff (with an adaptor)

People talk about the camera being the most important aspect of the equation.
Surely it's the photographer!

I would save your money and invest in something like a 40mm or 50mm which allows for more creativity on any platform
 
From a teaching perspective...

Everyone having the same camera would be the perfect ideal because there's zero time wasted explaining how to find and change the key settings. It makes sense that a school would provide a "guideline" that listed a particular make.

It also makes it easier for a teacher to find/resolve issues with settings that have been inadvertantly altered (and this happens a *lot* : WB off auto, strange picture modes, burst mode turned off/on, spot metering to average, AF-C instead of AFS, exp compe set to +3 - that sort of thing). I can do this quick on Fujis, not too bad on Canons, fairly slow on Nikons and no-hope-without-Google on Sonys, Olys and Panasonics (especially the compacts & M4/3s)

As soon as you move someone off auto and on to something that has a degree of manual control - the first question is "how do I change it?" If you assume a class of 20, and 10 of them have Nikon 5500s (in my experience 50% at most is the percentage of people who read the recommended literature for a course and actually follow through on it), you've halved your potential problems & questions. If they all have the same camera, you actually can then devote more time to taking photos and understanding light, and less time fiddling with menus & settings. Getting people to read their manuals is not fruitful - because often - manuals just aren't that helpful without knowing why it should be set that way. It also always (in my experience) elicits a heavy sigh from the student.

That's me experience anyway.
 
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Harlequin565 said:
From a teaching perspective...

Everyone having the same camera would be the perfect ideal because there's zero time wasted explaining how to find and change the key settings. It makes sense that a school would provide a "guideline" that listed a particular make.

It also makes it easier for a teacher to find/resolve issues with settings that have been inadvertantly altered (and this happens a *lot* : WB off auto, strange picture modes, burst mode turned off/on, spot metering to average, AF-C instead of AFS, exp compe set to +3 - that sort of thing). I can do this quick on Fujis, not too bad on Canons, fairly slow on Nikons and no-hope-without-Google on Sonys, Olys and Panasonics (especially the compacts & M4/3s)

As soon as you move someone off auto and on to something that has a degree of manual control - the first question is "how do I change it?" If you assume a class of 20, and 10 of them have Nikon 5500s (in my experience 50% at most is the percentage of people who read the recommended literature for a course and actually follow through on it), you've halved your potential problems & questions. If they all have the same camera, you actually can then devote more time to taking photos and understanding light, and less time fiddling with menus & settings. Getting people to read their manuals is not fruitful - because often - manuals just aren't that helpful without knowing why it should be set that way. It also always (in my experience) elicits a heavy sigh from the student.

That's me experience anyway.
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Definitely have a point. I remember when I first transition from Nikon D3 to Fuji XT1. I have to look where to find certain settings. The D3 have every control on the body but not the XT1. I guess the school could put some budget and get a pool of cameras.
 
Harlequin565 said:
From a teaching perspective...

Everyone having the same camera would be the perfect ideal because there's zero time wasted explaining how to find and change the key settings. It makes sense that a school would provide a "guideline" that listed a particular make.

It also makes it easier for a teacher to find/resolve issues with settings that have been inadvertantly altered (and this happens a *lot* : WB off auto, strange picture modes, burst mode turned off/on, spot metering to average, AF-C instead of AFS, exp compe set to +3 - that sort of thing). I can do this quick on Fujis, not too bad on Canons, fairly slow on Nikons and no-hope-without-Google on Sonys, Olys and Panasonics (especially the compacts & M4/3s)

As soon as you move someone off auto and on to something that has a degree of manual control - the first question is "how do I change it?" If you assume a class of 20, and 10 of them have Nikon 5500s (in my experience 50% at most is the percentage of people who read the recommended literature for a course and actually follow through on it), you've halved your potential problems & questions. If they all have the same camera, you actually can then devote more time to taking photos and understanding light, and less time fiddling with menus & settings. Getting people to read their manuals is not fruitful - because often - manuals just aren't that helpful without knowing why it should be set that way. It also always (in my experience) elicits a heavy sigh from the student.

That's me experience anyway.
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As I said earlier everyone having the same camera benefits the Teacher most, but I would rather the learners get the to know whatever camera they have (if they already have one like the OP's daughter) rather than possibly going to the expense of getting a new camera for a specific course. And who is to say a specified camera is the best for the kind of Photography the learner is interested in. :thinking:

Learning how different cameras do similar things is just part of the problem solving Photographers will have to get used to. ;)

I'm pretty good on most camera brands but got stumped by trying to use the a Fuji X-T20 in Aperture Priority a few months ago, and occasionally some of the Panasonic cameras. I don't see them that often though thankfully. :)

At least they are advising Nikons, where A is for Aperture and S is for Shutter like almost everyone else. None of this Av or Tv nonsense. ;) :LOL:
 
redhed17 said:
everyone having the same camera benefits the Teacher most
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I'd disagree. If the lesson can run smoothly - everyone gets the benefit of smoothly delivered content. If it stops because of individuals having problems with individual cameras, it's the students who pay the price in lost time. The teacher gets paid either way.

redhed17 said:
And who is to say a specified camera is the best for the kind of Photography the learner is interested in
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I'm guessing the college/school gets swamped with lots of "what do I need?" questions for many different courses. They have to put a stake in the ground somewhere unless they're prepared to either interview people, or put together some sort of detailed questionnaire/flow chart. And it's often misleading as evinced by the responses to the myriad of "what camera do I need for portraits/landscapes/black&white?" type questions we see on here. At GCSE age, the things my girls were interested in changed weekly and were mostly influenced by what other teenagers had/were doing. Trying to determine & state this this pre-enrolment would be dangerous ground I think.

redhed17 said:
stumped by trying to use the a Fuji X-T20 in Aperture Priority
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I had to chuckle at this, because I was caught out by it two weeks ago. And I own an X-T2. Abject lesson in humility that one.
 
I think it's human nature for people to want their children to have the best chance in life, to be the best possible, and to be fitted out with the best kit possible, etc. However, buying a new camera might not be the best idea at this current time for the following reasons:

Your daughter may not take to photography and lose interest in the subject, which means that you'd have probably been better saving your money? It takes some time to get the hang of a new camera, combining that with starting a new GCSE course might be a bit off-putting for her? If she's taking a brand new expensive bit of kit to school there's every chance if might get damaged or 'lost', as I imagine your daughter will have other lessons to go to on the same day as her photography lesson (perhaps games/PE or whatever they call it these days, where she might have to leave her bag unattended for an hour or so)? Also, if it's anything like when I was at school, kids can get jealous and might take a secret delight in 'accidentally' damaging an expensive looking camera?

All things considered, and depending what the school says, I'd be tempted to stick with the 40D and a couple of cheapish zoom lenses (a wide to mid + a mid to 300 type stuff) for at least the first year of her course, then if she shows interest and promise perhaps think about upgrading, letting her discuss with you which camera kit (within reason!) she'd like? She could then use the new camera for home-work only, and take the 'sacrificial' 40D to school if necessary? Does this sound workable?
 
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I'd stick with the 40D personally, as it'll be more than capable enough for GCSE photography, and if you really want to upgrade her gear, buy her some nice glass.

I took GCSE photography at college - although back then it basically consisted of being handed a roll of black and white film, sneaking off down the pub for most of the lesson time, then snatching a couple of quick shots of a crumbling brick or something on the way back and coming up with some sort of pretentious title for it. :D
 
Ok, so let me see if I can answer some of these questions...

We were given a list of essentials and optionals, the camera choices that they recormended are as follows:
Nikon 3100, 3300, 3200/3100 however they state that for a slightly better option, they would recommend the 5500 due to a wider range of options and functionality, they only talk about Nikon bodies (except film camera) but as I stated, all my equipment is Canon so it would make sense for her to use the same to allow her to use my stuff as well. She already has the Canon 40D and various lenses (inc 50mm) and I have promised her an upgrade...

They also ask for you to have a film camera such as a Canon EOS Rebel 300 Film.

GCSE Photography is 100% course work, she is expected to produce a 156 image project in order to qualify for the photography option which must be completed prior to starting back in September so, I guess they will be using the camera a fair bit.

She has been playing with my cameras for approx 2-3 years and has always shown a great deal of interest in it, she has entered various competitions localy and done well...even won one, I don't foresee her losing any interest soon...I hope, I may go down the route of 2nd hand equipment (expect a long list to appear in the wanted section soon LOL).

Thank you all for your feedback and opinions, much appreciated.

Regards
 
They did say "recommended" and thats only a guide line. Some of the kids parent won't have a clue about photography so in that case the recommendation is useful. If she already have a camera and is a canon, I don't see a problem with that. Like you said she already had 2-3 years experience using the camera and photography so in the technical aspect, the teacher don't need to help her (i.e have to change settings etc).

If you really concern about the camera, speak to the teacher to see what he/she thinks?
 
My feeling is that the 40D is far too good a camera for learning on to replace unless you're going for another semi-pro spec body with separate control dials for shutter speed and aperture, and a joystick focus point selector. The lack of the dual control dials makes the Nikon 3#### and 5#### series (and the Canon ###D ####D series) poor choices for learning if you already have access to older but semi-pro spec kit.
 
If they recommend a Canon EOS '3 series' type SLR 35mm film camera, this will take Canon fit EF lenses (but not the EF-S ones!), so that might be a saving for you if you already own some Canon EF lenses between you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_lens_mount

On a minor point (but mentioned to hopefully avoid future confusion), I don't think there is such a thing as the 'EOS Rebel 300' 35mm SLR film camera, I seem to remember it was just known as the EOS 300 in the UK (and the Rebel 2000 in the USA)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_300

Hope this is useful. (y)
 
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